Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
Our company was a Mac-only place but we finally got sick of MacOS and started switching to Linux. We sometimes boot into MacOS (or Windows on PC's) for client machines but as people w/ serious experience in the limitations of each I know we'll never go back. Also as the admin of the place I'll say I don't trust commercial software. If you haven't source you can't really do an audit. For home machines your OS of choice matters little but when you have millions of dollars to lose you want something you can check yourself. Also neither Apple or Microsoft is known for leaving upgrade paths without buying new hardware. That can be expensive. Just some of my thoughts. *^*^*^* Have the courage to take your own thoughts seriously, for they will shape you. -- Albert Einstein On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Gavin Clark wrote: > on 10/12/00 11:24 AM, Stephen Bosch wrote: > > > > > > > Gavin Clark wrote: > >> > >> on 10/11/00 1:56 PM, Stephen Bosch wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> GrAnT GaLbRaiTh wrote: > > I'm wondering if its possible to burn a CD from an ISO image using a mac > burner (it's all I have at work). > >>> > >>> Then, when you're done, you can go and install Yellow Dog Linux on the > >>> Mac, and REALLY confuse those Mac-heads. > >>> > >>> Yeeha! I'd love to see Linux running on a PPC machine. Anybody have any > >>> stories? > >>> > >>> -Stephen- > >> > >> it's very fast. mostly it is the same as on X86 but there are a few > >> differences. > > > > I figured that it would be fast, given that PPC is RISC... > > > >> there are not as many people hacking for PPC so ports are always a little > >> behind. Most of the larger projects have PPC code included (linux kernel, > >> apache, etc.) so it's not a big problem but you do feel like a second class > >> citizen at times. > > > > When I go package hunting on www.rpmfind.net it always seems like there > > are many PPC packages... I've always had the impression that the > > momentum is growing. It makes me want to try it myself. > > more and more all the time. I'm waiting for Mandrake's PPC distribution. > > > > > > > >> There is no LILO. You either get into and tweak something called Open > >> Firmware or you let the Mac OS boot part way until an extension called bootX > >> loads that kicks Mac OS out of RAM then loads the linux kernel. > > > > Yuck. Sounds messy. What distribution are you running? Open Firmware > > would be the Mac equivalent of the BIOS, would it not? > > similar, yes. > > >> > >> I do suspect however that, save for slower hardware, LinuxPPC's days are > >> numbered once OSX ships. > > > > That doesn't make sense to me -- what happens to all the RS/6000 users > > who are running Linux? If LinuxPPC vanishes, they won't be able to run > > an alternative operating system anymore... > > > > -Stephen- > > I'll try to explain what I mean. I'll agree with you that there will always > be a market for IBM servers, pre G3 macs and CHRP boxes. I was thinking of > all the people with iMacs who are just dabbling. OSX is just around the > corner and is chock full of UNIX goodness so if they want to play around > under the hood, it's there. I don't think that someone with limited > experience could tell the difference between freeBSD with a Mac coating and > linux with a really bitchin window manager. It will run all the software > linuxPPC does and you can even drop out of the mac GUI and run X windows or > no GUI at all if you want a server. > > I think most of the people from the mac side like Mac OS but are coming to > linux for better stability and free software for network servers, unix > freeware like MP3 rippers and other things you can't find for the mac, or > just out of curiosity. It's not like the wintel side where everybody hates > the default OS and the oppression of the Empire; there is more pressure to > switch. Lots of ex-windows people are much more productive in Gnome but I > think most mac users would see it as a step down. Mac users are mostly happy > with their OS but would like it not to crash so much and want to run apache. > Finally, there is not as much of a perceptible performance difference > between linux and macOS on PPC as there is with WIN an Linux intel. I had an > old pentium 200 running W95 that I hated - it was slow, it crashed all the > time, it lost data, when I installed redhat 6 on it it was like someone had > ripped the chains off of it - it flies and doesn't crash. The differences > when I put linuxPPC on my mac were not as dramatic, they were things like > netscape connects faster, and when you click and hold a scrollbar the whole > computer doesn't stop. ;-) > > So if you already have OSX there won't be much need to switch to or add > linux. 95% of what it can do you already have, that's why I think PPC linux > sales will drop off when it ships. If windows had UNIX under the hood would > you got to the trouble of downloading and burning a CD then installing linux > (except tha
Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
Eric, I know exactly how you feel, I too am a dedicated Mac user and I also am greatly attracted to Linux. I think there is a common spirit between MacOS and Linux that is not shared by the abusive world of Microsoft. OSX will of course allow for a unix type os to be supported by Apple people. Only time will tell and I wonder also if LinuxPPC will be able to make it against all odds. >I also have linuxPPC running on a G3. However at this point it is >just an amusement for me. My "real" linux boxes are all intel >hardware. Why? The Mac still remains for me far more useful and >enjoyable as a desktop machine (much unlike windows on my intel >machines) and very rarely crashes despite a boat load of extensions >and continuously having at least a half dozen programs open at once. > >Once OSX ships I think it will clearly initially be the choice as a >desktop machine for most Mac heads like myself (we generally love >our operating system for the most part, as opposed to tolerating it >like much of the windows community). However, I don't know how long >that choice will be so clear as linux matures to a more enjoyable >experience for the average desktop user. It will be especially >interesting to see how the Eazel Gnome project (former Mac >designers) competes with OSX for the hearts of the Mac users! >-- >Regards, > >Eric Mings Ph.D. -- Thanks, Larry Blodgett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
I also have linuxPPC running on a G3. However at this point it is just an amusement for me. My "real" linux boxes are all intel hardware. Why? The Mac still remains for me far more useful and enjoyable as a desktop machine (much unlike windows on my intel machines) and very rarely crashes despite a boat load of extensions and continuously having at least a half dozen programs open at once. Once OSX ships I think it will clearly initially be the choice as a desktop machine for most Mac heads like myself (we generally love our operating system for the most part, as opposed to tolerating it like much of the windows community). However, I don't know how long that choice will be so clear as linux matures to a more enjoyable experience for the average desktop user. It will be especially interesting to see how the Eazel Gnome project (former Mac designers) competes with OSX for the hearts of the Mac users! -- Regards, Eric Mings Ph.D. Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
on 10/12/00 11:24 AM, Stephen Bosch wrote: > > > Gavin Clark wrote: >> >> on 10/11/00 1:56 PM, Stephen Bosch wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> GrAnT GaLbRaiTh wrote: I'm wondering if its possible to burn a CD from an ISO image using a mac burner (it's all I have at work). >>> >>> Then, when you're done, you can go and install Yellow Dog Linux on the >>> Mac, and REALLY confuse those Mac-heads. >>> >>> Yeeha! I'd love to see Linux running on a PPC machine. Anybody have any >>> stories? >>> >>> -Stephen- >> >> it's very fast. mostly it is the same as on X86 but there are a few >> differences. > > I figured that it would be fast, given that PPC is RISC... > >> there are not as many people hacking for PPC so ports are always a little >> behind. Most of the larger projects have PPC code included (linux kernel, >> apache, etc.) so it's not a big problem but you do feel like a second class >> citizen at times. > > When I go package hunting on www.rpmfind.net it always seems like there > are many PPC packages... I've always had the impression that the > momentum is growing. It makes me want to try it myself. more and more all the time. I'm waiting for Mandrake's PPC distribution. > >> There is no LILO. You either get into and tweak something called Open >> Firmware or you let the Mac OS boot part way until an extension called bootX >> loads that kicks Mac OS out of RAM then loads the linux kernel. > > Yuck. Sounds messy. What distribution are you running? Open Firmware > would be the Mac equivalent of the BIOS, would it not? similar, yes. >> >> I do suspect however that, save for slower hardware, LinuxPPC's days are >> numbered once OSX ships. > > That doesn't make sense to me -- what happens to all the RS/6000 users > who are running Linux? If LinuxPPC vanishes, they won't be able to run > an alternative operating system anymore... > > -Stephen- I'll try to explain what I mean. I'll agree with you that there will always be a market for IBM servers, pre G3 macs and CHRP boxes. I was thinking of all the people with iMacs who are just dabbling. OSX is just around the corner and is chock full of UNIX goodness so if they want to play around under the hood, it's there. I don't think that someone with limited experience could tell the difference between freeBSD with a Mac coating and linux with a really bitchin window manager. It will run all the software linuxPPC does and you can even drop out of the mac GUI and run X windows or no GUI at all if you want a server. I think most of the people from the mac side like Mac OS but are coming to linux for better stability and free software for network servers, unix freeware like MP3 rippers and other things you can't find for the mac, or just out of curiosity. It's not like the wintel side where everybody hates the default OS and the oppression of the Empire; there is more pressure to switch. Lots of ex-windows people are much more productive in Gnome but I think most mac users would see it as a step down. Mac users are mostly happy with their OS but would like it not to crash so much and want to run apache. Finally, there is not as much of a perceptible performance difference between linux and macOS on PPC as there is with WIN an Linux intel. I had an old pentium 200 running W95 that I hated - it was slow, it crashed all the time, it lost data, when I installed redhat 6 on it it was like someone had ripped the chains off of it - it flies and doesn't crash. The differences when I put linuxPPC on my mac were not as dramatic, they were things like netscape connects faster, and when you click and hold a scrollbar the whole computer doesn't stop. ;-) So if you already have OSX there won't be much need to switch to or add linux. 95% of what it can do you already have, that's why I think PPC linux sales will drop off when it ships. If windows had UNIX under the hood would you got to the trouble of downloading and burning a CD then installing linux (except that it's fun) if you could just log out and start up Gnome or open a terminal with the bash shell? I do think however that Linux will have the edge on speed and use less ram etc., so there will still be a market for servers. And of course it will always attract people who love to tweak the code and play with new stuff. And Linux is here now. Gavin Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
Our company has quite a few Macs running Linux. Mac OSX looks fine but we have no plans to switch. Why pay for what you can get for free. Besides since our PC's run Linux too it's less hassle having the same OS on all. *^*^*^* Have the courage to take your own thoughts seriously, for they will shape you. -- Albert Einstein On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Stephen Bosch wrote: > > > Gavin Clark wrote: > > > > on 10/11/00 1:56 PM, Stephen Bosch wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > GrAnT GaLbRaiTh wrote: > > >> > > >> I'm wondering if its possible to burn a CD from an ISO image using a mac > > >> burner (it's all I have at work). > > > > > > Then, when you're done, you can go and install Yellow Dog Linux on the > > > Mac, and REALLY confuse those Mac-heads. > > > > > > Yeeha! I'd love to see Linux running on a PPC machine. Anybody have any > > > stories? > > > > > > -Stephen- > > > > it's very fast. mostly it is the same as on X86 but there are a few > > differences. > > I figured that it would be fast, given that PPC is RISC... > > > there are not as many people hacking for PPC so ports are always a little > > behind. Most of the larger projects have PPC code included (linux kernel, > > apache, etc.) so it's not a big problem but you do feel like a second class > > citizen at times. > > When I go package hunting on www.rpmfind.net it always seems like there > are many PPC packages... I've always had the impression that the > momentum is growing. It makes me want to try it myself. > > > There is no LILO. You either get into and tweak something called Open > > Firmware or you let the Mac OS boot part way until an extension called bootX > > loads that kicks Mac OS out of RAM then loads the linux kernel. > > Yuck. Sounds messy. What distribution are you running? Open Firmware > would be the Mac equivalent of the BIOS, would it not? > > > The best part was seeing how much more the hardware could do just with some > > different code running. I almost laughed myself silly when I saw how fast > > netscape was under linux. > > > > I do suspect however that, save for slower hardware, LinuxPPC's days are > > numbered once OSX ships. > > That doesn't make sense to me -- what happens to all the RS/6000 users > who are running Linux? If LinuxPPC vanishes, they won't be able to run > an alternative operating system anymore... > > -Stephen- > > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Linux on PPC
Gavin Clark wrote: > > on 10/11/00 1:56 PM, Stephen Bosch wrote: > > > > > > > GrAnT GaLbRaiTh wrote: > >> > >> I'm wondering if its possible to burn a CD from an ISO image using a mac > >> burner (it's all I have at work). > > > > Then, when you're done, you can go and install Yellow Dog Linux on the > > Mac, and REALLY confuse those Mac-heads. > > > > Yeeha! I'd love to see Linux running on a PPC machine. Anybody have any > > stories? > > > > -Stephen- > > it's very fast. mostly it is the same as on X86 but there are a few > differences. I figured that it would be fast, given that PPC is RISC... > there are not as many people hacking for PPC so ports are always a little > behind. Most of the larger projects have PPC code included (linux kernel, > apache, etc.) so it's not a big problem but you do feel like a second class > citizen at times. When I go package hunting on www.rpmfind.net it always seems like there are many PPC packages... I've always had the impression that the momentum is growing. It makes me want to try it myself. > There is no LILO. You either get into and tweak something called Open > Firmware or you let the Mac OS boot part way until an extension called bootX > loads that kicks Mac OS out of RAM then loads the linux kernel. Yuck. Sounds messy. What distribution are you running? Open Firmware would be the Mac equivalent of the BIOS, would it not? > The best part was seeing how much more the hardware could do just with some > different code running. I almost laughed myself silly when I saw how fast > netscape was under linux. > > I do suspect however that, save for slower hardware, LinuxPPC's days are > numbered once OSX ships. That doesn't make sense to me -- what happens to all the RS/6000 users who are running Linux? If LinuxPPC vanishes, they won't be able to run an alternative operating system anymore... -Stephen- Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
