Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > However, if there's an enhanced security advantage using kdm or gdm or > xdm boot mode, then I would definitely switch. Otherwise, am in no > hurry to do so. > > Is there such an advantage booting with these as the boot mode? > AFAIK, there is no security advantage. It's just that most of the off-line mail readers are in the GUI mode, and there are other tools that are more easily available in GUI mode. :-) John
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > That only takes you directly to a console login. When you use startx from the > console it takes you right back to kdm's login screen. I'm trying cut out that > step. > Hmm...never done that to me you've got a strange system! Did you select "high security" when you installed? If so, that may be the problem. John
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > Xdm (generic), kdm (KDE) and gdm (gnome) all provide another level of security, > but my original question was about doing away with any of the login managers. > Once you have setup Mandrake to launch X and go directly to a gui, the default > is to bring up Kdm. Now I would rather go directly to a consol screen and > then, using "startx" go directly to my window manager of choice as set up in > ~/.xinitrc. What I can't find is the file to edit to take kdm out of the > process. > You shouldn't have ANY *dm when you boot to console and then run startx. IF you want to boot to console first and THAT'S the problem, you need to edit your /etc/inittab and change the default runlevel. Your /etc/inittab PROBABLY has the following line: id:5:initdefault: Change the ABOVE from 5 to 3 as follows: # # inittab This file describes how the INIT process should set up # the system in a certain run-level. # # Author: Miquel van Smoorenburg, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # Modified for RHS Linux by Marc Ewing and Donnie Barnes # # Default runlevel. The runlevels used by RHS are: # 0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # 1 - Single user mode # 2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have networking) # 3 - Full multiuser mode # 4 - unused # 5 - X11 # 6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # id:3:initdefault: # System initialization. si::sysinit:/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit l0:0:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 0 l1:1:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 1 l2:2:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 2 l3:3:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 3 l4:4:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 4 l5:5:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 5 l6:6:wait:/etc/rc.d/rc 6 # Things to run in every runlevel. ud::once:/sbin/update # Trap CTRL-ALT-DELETE ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t3 -r now # When our UPS tells us power has failed, assume we have a few minutes # of power left. Schedule a shutdown for 2 minutes from now. # This does, of course, assume you have powerd installed and your # UPS connected and working correctly. pf::powerfail:/sbin/shutdown -f -h +2 "Power Failure; System Shutting Down" # If power was restored before the shutdown kicked in, cancel it. pr:12345:powerokwait:/sbin/shutdown -c "Power Restored; Shutdown Cancelled" # Run gettys in standard runlevels 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty1 2:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty2 3:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty3 4:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty4 5:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty5 6:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty6 # Run xdm in runlevel 5 # xdm is now a separate service x:5:respawn:/etc/X11/prefdm -nodaemon
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
You must have something very odd in your ~/.xinitrc. Could you paste it for the group? As are you _sure_ it's brings up kdm and not KDE? You don't have a digital camera so could take a picture, do you? Ken Archer wrote: > > That only takes you directly to a console login. When you use startx from the > console it takes you right back to kdm's login screen. I'm trying cut out that > step. > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > > Mike Corbeil wrote: > > edit the file > > > > /etc/inittab > > > > change the line that says > > > > id:5:initdefault > > > > to > > > > id:3:initdefault > > > > that should do it. > -- > Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 > Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Mike Corbeil wrote: > This is fine with me, though. The only condition I'ld see as important to use > *dm would be if it provided increased or enhanced security, but I don't know > enough about these, yet, to be able to say. > > Do *dm provide enhanced security, or just a fancier login interface? The short answer is: the latter (just a fancier login). The long answer is: although the graphic login doesn't have any _direct_ security advantage, when it's enabled ALL your users login directly into X. Then, if you configure the few special clients (xterm, kvt, etc...) that allow console mode, you might prevent most of your users to EVER use console mode, and _this_ can have security advantages ... OTOH, of course, there might be valid reasons that your users have to have console mode. YMMV -- Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED] 74 Annemasse France old Linux fan
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Ken Archer wrote: > > That only takes you directly to a console login. When you use startx from the > console it takes you right back to kdm's login screen. I'm trying cut out that > step. No, no, and no !!! If you are logged in in console mode (text mode) and you invoke startx, it does NOT invoke kdm's login screen, since you are ALREADY logged in !!! It just starts X along with whatever window manager and clients you have defined in your config files. -- Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED] 74 Annemasse France old Linux fan
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
if it takes you back to kdm then there is something wrong. after you have logged in and typed startx it should drop you into x with no kdm. I done it plenty of times. Ken Archer wrote: > > That only takes you directly to a console login. When you use startx from the > console it takes you right back to kdm's login screen. I'm trying cut out that > step. > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > > Mike Corbeil wrote: > > edit the file > > > > /etc/inittab > > > > change the line that says > > > > id:5:initdefault > > > > to > > > > id:3:initdefault > > > > that should do it. > -- > Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 > Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
That only takes you directly to a console login. When you use startx from the console it takes you right back to kdm's login screen. I'm trying cut out that step. On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > Mike Corbeil wrote: > edit the file > > /etc/inittab > > change the line that says > > id:5:initdefault > > to > > id:3:initdefault > > that should do it. -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
/etc/inittab You're looking to change the runlevel (aka initlevel) that you boot into. I don't remember the syntax; but inittab is well commented. You should have no problem figuring it out. -Matt Stegman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Ken Archer wrote: > Now I would rather go directly to a consol screen and then, using > "startx" go directly to my window manager of choice as set up in > ~/.xinitrc. What I can't find is the file to edit to take kdm out of > the process.
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Mike Corbeil wrote: > > Ken Archer wrote: > > > Xdm (generic), kdm (KDE) and gdm (gnome) all provide another level of security, > > but my original question was about doing away with any of the login managers. > > Once you have setup Mandrake to launch X and go directly to a gui, the default > > is to bring up Kdm. Now I would rather go directly to a consol screen and > > then, using "startx" go directly to my window manager of choice as set up in > > ~/.xinitrc. What I can't find is the file to edit to take kdm out of the > > process. edit the file /etc/inittab change the line that says id:5:initdefault to id:3:initdefault that should do it.
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Ken Archer wrote:
> Xdm (generic), kdm (KDE) and gdm (gnome) all provide another level of security,
> but my original question was about doing away with any of the login managers.
> Once you have setup Mandrake to launch X and go directly to a gui, the default
> is to bring up Kdm. Now I would rather go directly to a consol screen and
> then, using "startx" go directly to my window manager of choice as set up in
> ~/.xinitrc. What I can't find is the file to edit to take kdm out of the
> process.
>
If you're using KDE, then check through the online HELP available in the
KDE desktop. I remember reading about switching gdm for kdm and then doing the
reverse, when I first installed KDE, but don't recall what the commands were. There
should be documentation through KDE Help, which should be accessible through at least
the KDE K menu.
However, I seem to also recall reading about some gui login manager which allows
choosing which wm to login to. Am not sure where you'ld find the documentation on
this, but if a gui login provides enhanced security, then maybe you'll want to search
for this info, before switching modes.
If you definitely want to switch to console login, then another thing you can try is
looking through the configuration files under /etc. Maybe this would be defined in a
file in the /etc/rc.d directory or one of the subdirectories, perhaps the
/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit file, or /etc/rc.d/init.d/{some-file}, or some other file under
/etc/rc.d. Might also be in some file in /etc. I don't think it'ld be under
/etc/X11/, but may be.
I've resolved a number of problems and performed tasks by learning this way;
therefore, it's definitely do-able, and sometimes faster than asking in a mailing
list.
You should have some configuration howto for the Mandrake distribution, or Linux in
general. Take a quick look through these HOWTOs. I think that the ones for
configuring linux aren't bad.
mike
> Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote:
> > Jean-Louis Debert wrote:
> >
> > > Mike Corbeil wrote:
> > >
> >
> > [snipped]
> >
> > > Not the same thing. To use the graphical login, you _have to_
> > > be _booting_ in graphical mode, i.e. you have to configure
> > > init to start directly in graphical mode.
> >
> > > In your current situation, if you get a text login, it's
> > > because your init is configured that way, and so you don't
> > > use *dm. You probably can find some *getty in ps output.
> >
> > Exactly. There are no *dm instances in the output of
> >
> > ps aux
> >
> > but there are several *getty running.
> >
> > This is fine with me, though. The only condition I'ld see as important to use
> > *dm would be if it provided increased or enhanced security, but I don't know
> > enough about these, yet, to be able to say.
> >
> > Do *dm provide enhanced security, or just a fancier login interface?
> >
> > I should try them just to see what the gui's look like, albeit probably
> > something like on Solaris and gui or character doesn't make any difference; only
> > gui looking prettier. If there's a security difference, though, then a la gui
> > login I'll switch to.
> >
> > mike
> --
> Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801
> Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
If you have a multi-user system, the login manager has some advantages because it allows you to select who has shutdown priveleges, etc. It also has an additional password screen for further protection. If you have a single-user system, I can't see any real advantage to a login manager. On a single-user system I use guichooser to simplify chosing which window manager I want to use. I have eight of them installed. > I'll need to read up on the advantages of one mode over the other. I > don't mind console mode, but always run startx when I want to work in a > gui desktop environment, and have no problems using a terminal window to > do much of my work. I don't mind command line mode and definitely don't > see any real advantage with MS Windows in this respect. I spend much > time in terminal windows, and the programming editor I normally use is > vim (not even bothering with gvim). > > However, if there's an enhanced security advantage using kdm or gdm or > xdm boot mode, then I would definitely switch. Otherwise, am in no > hurry to do so. > > Is there such an advantage booting with these as the boot mode? > > mike -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Xdm (generic), kdm (KDE) and gdm (gnome) all provide another level of security, but my original question was about doing away with any of the login managers. Once you have setup Mandrake to launch X and go directly to a gui, the default is to bring up Kdm. Now I would rather go directly to a consol screen and then, using "startx" go directly to my window manager of choice as set up in ~/.xinitrc. What I can't find is the file to edit to take kdm out of the process. Wed, 19 Apr 2000, you wrote: > Jean-Louis Debert wrote: > > > Mike Corbeil wrote: > > > > [snipped] > > > Not the same thing. To use the graphical login, you _have to_ > > be _booting_ in graphical mode, i.e. you have to configure > > init to start directly in graphical mode. > > > In your current situation, if you get a text login, it's > > because your init is configured that way, and so you don't > > use *dm. You probably can find some *getty in ps output. > > Exactly. There are no *dm instances in the output of > > ps aux > > but there are several *getty running. > > This is fine with me, though. The only condition I'ld see as important to use > *dm would be if it provided increased or enhanced security, but I don't know > enough about these, yet, to be able to say. > > Do *dm provide enhanced security, or just a fancier login interface? > > I should try them just to see what the gui's look like, albeit probably > something like on Solaris and gui or character doesn't make any difference; only > gui looking prettier. If there's a security difference, though, then a la gui > login I'll switch to. > > mike -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
John Aldrich wrote: > KDM/GDM/XDM only work when you're booting into GUI mode. > They do NOT work when you boot to console mode. > John I'll need to read up on the advantages of one mode over the other. I don't mind console mode, but always run startx when I want to work in a gui desktop environment, and have no problems using a terminal window to do much of my work. I don't mind command line mode and definitely don't see any real advantage with MS Windows in this respect. I spend much time in terminal windows, and the programming editor I normally use is vim (not even bothering with gvim). However, if there's an enhanced security advantage using kdm or gdm or xdm boot mode, then I would definitely switch. Otherwise, am in no hurry to do so. Is there such an advantage booting with these as the boot mode? mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Jean-Louis Debert wrote: > Mike Corbeil wrote: > [snipped] > Not the same thing. To use the graphical login, you _have to_ > be _booting_ in graphical mode, i.e. you have to configure > init to start directly in graphical mode. > In your current situation, if you get a text login, it's > because your init is configured that way, and so you don't > use *dm. You probably can find some *getty in ps output. Exactly. There are no *dm instances in the output of ps aux but there are several *getty running. This is fine with me, though. The only condition I'ld see as important to use *dm would be if it provided increased or enhanced security, but I don't know enough about these, yet, to be able to say. Do *dm provide enhanced security, or just a fancier login interface? I should try them just to see what the gui's look like, albeit probably something like on Solaris and gui or character doesn't make any difference; only gui looking prettier. If there's a security difference, though, then a la gui login I'll switch to. mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
KDM/GDM/XDM only work when you're booting into GUI mode. They do NOT work when you boot to console mode. John
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Mike Corbeil wrote: > Well, I thought of the getty daemons, or mgetty. From what I vaguely > recall reading (my background isn't sys admin, but instead development, so > I haven't dealt with the admin side of systems, except very little), mgetty > is a login manager kind of "utility". Correct > Let's see. Just checked ps aux and this shows gpm for the mouse, but > doesn't show either kdm or gdm, which is probably why I don't get a gui > login; just the plain vanilla character based prompt, which is fine, but > will look into kdm and gdm to see about adding a fancier u.i. for logging > in. Not the same thing. To use the graphical login, you _have to_ be _booting_ in graphical mode, i.e. you have to configure init to start directly in graphical mode. In your current situation, if you get a text login, it's because your init is configured that way, and so you don't use *dm. You probably can find some *getty in ps output. -- Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED] 74 Annemasse France old Linux fan
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: > kdm is a login manager. > > I'm not sure what you think a login manager is, though. Well, I thought of the getty daemons, or mgetty. From what I vaguely recall reading (my background isn't sys admin, but instead development, so I haven't dealt with the admin side of systems, except very little), mgetty is a login manager kind of "utility". > kdm is not needed to manage logins, but that's the only thing it does. Let's see. Just checked ps aux and this shows gpm for the mouse, but doesn't show either kdm or gdm, which is probably why I don't get a gui login; just the plain vanilla character based prompt, which is fine, but will look into kdm and gdm to see about adding a fancier u.i. for logging in. My priorities, though, aren't in this respect, but instead getting my system upgraded and then on to postresql server and programming, ftp, tcp/ip and Perl programming, etcetera. Hence, although I read about this other stuff months back, it's not an explicit part of the agenda. Is the gui login much better than the plain character one? > It provides a graphical front-end that allows people to log in with > graphics on their screen rather than logging in in text mode. I'll look into this. Shouldn't take long to configure. > It is the KDE folk's version of xdm. This has nothing to do with gpm, > but I believe that gdm is the corresponding gnome login manager. > Got ya meaning. I read some documentation last night about this and probably did get gpm and gdm confused, but knew kdm was related to kde. However, another way it's of no real consequence to me is because I simply follow installation guidelines and haven't had any problems using these for the critical aspects of the system, so far; although, have only had RH 5.1 installation manual, but the instructions worked fine. The guidelines aren't thorough, as I've learned, but for installation, they were adequate. For kde, I followed their instructions, and these also worked the first time. Same for gnome. I haven't used mailing lists to figure out how to install software, before, but have a feeling I'll be doing so, at least in the near future. Adding new software and rpm dependency problems, though, are another story, but I'll dig for documentation, first, probably, or maybe (old habits are sometimes difficult to break). Besides, this gives the opportunity to learn what documentation is available. Mailing lists appear to be good for getting help, and learning about topics in advance. mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
kdm is a login manager. I'm not sure what you think a login manager is, though. kdm is not needed to manage logins, but that's the only thing it does. It provides a graphical front-end that allows people to log in with graphics on their screen rather than logging in in text mode. It is the KDE folk's version of xdm. This has nothing to do with gpm, but I believe that gdm is the corresponding gnome login manager. Mike Corbeil wrote: I'm not sure that kdm is a login manager. I've seen it compared to gpm, but gpm is not a login manager either, because neither needs to run to login, as far as I'm aware. The only thing I recall about gpm is that it allows the use of the mouse in non X login, but doesn't prevent a person from logging in if neither is present. kdm is what was said to be used if using kde, which is a window manager and desktop. mike -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Stephen F. Bosch wrote: > Mike Corbeil wrote: > > > > Stephen F. Bosch wrote: > > > > > Matt Stegman wrote: > > > > > > > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > > > > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > > > > change this. > > > > > > Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. > > > > > > -Stephen- > > > > The relationship is indirect. startx will give you what ever it's been > > instructed to give you. One or the principal file for this is > > $HOME/.Xclients, or ~/.Xclients (~/ = $HOME/). > > Maybe people are confused about what kdm is? It's the login manager, not > the window manager (that's KDE). > > -Stephen- I'm not sure that kdm is a login manager. I've seen it compared to gpm, but gpm is not a login manager either, because neither needs to run to login, as far as I'm aware. The only thing I recall about gpm is that it allows the use of the mouse in non X login, but doesn't prevent a person from logging in if neither is present. kdm is what was said to be used if using kde, which is a window manager and desktop. mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: > "Stephen F. Bosch" wrote: > > > > Matt Stegman wrote: > > > > > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > > > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > > > change this. > > > > Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. > > No, it doesn't. I think that what the person means is that Mandrake configured kde as the default window manager and desktop. This may have been through a user choice made during the installation process, or the default the Mandrake distribution which was installed. To an unknowing user, this could cause startx to look like it gives kdm or kde as the default. Only by reading documentation on this does a person realize that startx only gives or brings up what it's instructed to do so, through configuration files, e.g. ~/.Xclients. Without reading the documentation on this process, many newbies to X and the wm's can easily think that startx is to "blame". startx is a "front-end" and depends on configuration files, to know what to do. To learn about startx and configuring which wm's to use or have a choice of, people need to read the documentation on this, or wait until someone repeats it. True, startx doesn't decide what wm is to be used, but it can seem like it does for people who don't know what's actually going on. mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Mike Corbeil wrote: > > Stephen F. Bosch wrote: > > > Matt Stegman wrote: > > > > > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > > > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > > > change this. > > > > Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. > > > > -Stephen- > > The relationship is indirect. startx will give you what ever it's been > instructed to give you. One or the principal file for this is > $HOME/.Xclients, or ~/.Xclients (~/ = $HOME/). Maybe people are confused about what kdm is? It's the login manager, not the window manager (that's KDE). -Stephen-
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
"Stephen F. Bosch" wrote: > > Matt Stegman wrote: > > > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > > change this. > > Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. No, it doesn't. -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Ken Archer wrote: > When I installed 7.0 I set it up to go directly to X using "kdm". On a single > user machine, however, I prefer to use "guichooser" to choose my window manager. > Question is how do I stop it from using kdm and go to a console? If I set it to > go to init3 and then use startx, it will still go to kdm if I am not mistaken. Once you're logged in and in kde, bring up kde help and search for how to disable kde. There's some command like kde on/off but have forgotten exactly what it is. This should replace the .Xclients file with one which doesn't invoke startkde. Then, I'ld suggest reading up on the window managers and the tool you mentioned. There may be a man page or documentation under /usr/doc for this tool. mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Stephen F. Bosch wrote: > Matt Stegman wrote: > > > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > > change this. > > Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. > > -Stephen- The relationship is indirect. startx will give you what ever it's been instructed to give you. One or the principal file for this is $HOME/.Xclients, or ~/.Xclients (~/ = $HOME/). mike
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
Matt Stegman wrote: > No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by > default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to > change this. Qué? In Mandrake, startx gives you kdm. -Stephen-
Re: [expert] Stop using kdm
No, startx does not start kdm. startx will start X, and load kde by default, or another window manager - you can use any of several tools to change this. -Matt Stegman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Ken Archer wrote: > When I installed 7.0 I set it up to go directly to X using "kdm". On a single > user machine, however, I prefer to use "guichooser" to choose my window manager. > Question is how do I stop it from using kdm and go to a console? If I set it to > go to init3 and then use startx, it will still go to kdm if I am not mistaken. > > -- > Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 > Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail > >
[expert] Stop using kdm
When I installed 7.0 I set it up to go directly to X using "kdm". On a single user machine, however, I prefer to use "guichooser" to choose my window manager. Question is how do I stop it from using kdm and go to a console? If I set it to go to init3 and then use startx, it will still go to kdm if I am not mistaken. -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
