Re: [Factor-talk] Factor on multicores

2012-05-29 Thread Konrad Hinsen
Joe Groff writes:

 > Factor doesn't really handle multicore. There is some half finished
 > code to support a one-VM-per-thread model, each with its own heap, but
 > the benefits over simply using processes would be minimal. You may be

Indeed. The applications I have in mind would require shared read-only
access by several threads to shared data. I don't know the design details
of the Factor VM, but I suppose this would require a shared heap.

 > able to leverage the IPC features of io.launcher with a serialization
 > mechanism of some sort to build programs that share data across
 > processes.

I suspect the serialization and communication overhead would be too
important.

Naveen Garg writes:

 > For GPUs, have a look at the cuda
 > bindings: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/ vocab-cuda.html

I will!

 > IMHO, best way to deal with multi-cores is with multiple processes
 > instead of threads.  Can always use memory mapped files if
 > redundant memory usage is a concern.  Simplifies scaling across
 > machines later.

Is there support for memory-mapped files? I'd have to be able to create data
structures in such memory areas.


Is there a technical reason for not having better thread support, or is
it just something that nobody got around to do yet? At first sight, the
language seems well adapted to parallelism: give each thread its own
data stack, and use immutable data structures at the interfaces. If the
VM could enforce the "immutable data structures at the interfaces" rule,
it wouldn't have to worry about data access synchronization at all.

Konrad.


--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk


Re: [Factor-talk] Factor on multicores

2012-05-29 Thread Joe Groff
On May 29, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Konrad Hinsen  wrote:

> What I couldn't figure out is how Factor programmers deal with
> today's multicore processors. Threads are apparently cooperative,
> so that's not the answer. That leaves communicating processes
> as an option, but is there some support library?

Factor doesn't really handle multicore. There is some half finished
code to support a one-VM-per-thread model, each with its own heap, but
the benefits over simply using processes would be minimal. You may be
able to leverage the IPC features of io.launcher with a serialization
mechanism of some sort to build programs that share data across
processes.
>
> I also wonder if there are any real-life applications that one could
> learn from. I know the Factor compiler is written in Factor, but I am
> not a compiler expert so that is not the best example for me to look
> at. Are there any other Factor applications floating around?

Factor's continuous integration system and the web server that runs
all of the web applications on concatenative.org and factorcode.org
are also written in Factor.

-Joe

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk


Re: [Factor-talk] Factor on multicores

2012-05-29 Thread Naveen Garg
>
> > What I couldn't figure out is how Factor programmers deal with
> today's multicore processors.

For GPUs, have a look at the cuda bindings:
http://docs.factorcode.org/content/vocab-cuda.html
IMHO, best way to deal with  multi-cores is with multiple processes instead
of threads.
Can always use memory mapped files if redundant memory usage is a concern.
Simplifies scaling across machines later.

There are a bunch of toy apps in the factor distribution.  I haven't used
it for any big projects yet, but I think it would be cool to create  squeak
/ scratch IDE with factor.
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk


[Factor-talk] Factor on multicores

2012-05-29 Thread Konrad Hinsen
Hi everyone,

I discovered Factor somewhat by accident and an attach of Forth
nostalgia made me have a closer look. No regrets: this is really an
impressive language with an impressive library and an impressive
development environment (FUEL for Emacs).

What I couldn't figure out is how Factor programmers deal with
today's multicore processors. Threads are apparently cooperative,
so that's not the answer. That leaves communicating processes
as an option, but is there some support library?

I also wonder if there are any real-life applications that one could
learn from. I know the Factor compiler is written in Factor, but I am
not a compiler expert so that is not the best example for me to look
at. Are there any other Factor applications floating around?

Konrad.

--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk