[FairfieldLife] Does Enlightenment exist as an absolute?
Does anyone have any thoughts or knowledge on this point? It sometimes bothers me that there might, in reality, never be an end to our evolutionary path. Maharishi himself said in late 2005 something like; we swim and swim, but never quite reach the goal, because it is infinite, but we can get so close that we are living in the waves of bliss. When I am suffering I really pray that there is final absolute end to the path, but when I'm feelng good, it doesn't seem to be so important :) David, Skelmersdale, UK
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can Machines Develop Consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: Machines can play chess, and compute equations in nanoseconds. But at the present state of technology, it can't think and understand the meaning of, I think, therefore I am. But scientists are worried, nonetheless of the future possibilities of machines. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/science/26robot.html?ref=science Machines can think! They can think with whatever degree of intelligence their makers and programmers have managed to instill in them. A machine could be programmed to understand that, I compute, therefore I am. Anyway, the expression I think, therefore I am is logically flawed - There is a thought, therefore thought exists makes more sense to me. Then one has to conclude that, since we know that thoughts exist, the existence of an experiencer of thoughts is implied. But is the experiencer of thoughts finite or infinite? I think we are all aware that He is infinite. We must conclude that the infinite exists, experiencing thought, and that the whole idea of an individual I must be rejected. But where is the experiencer of the computations of our machine? Infinite intelligence is everywhere and is aware of everything, so therefore must be aware of the computations of the machine. All machines already are self-aware. They have more simple nervous systems than us, we could say they have electronic nervous systems, so we are like Gods to them, but I think it is only a matter of degree. D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enjoy the Rose! - Indifference tothe thorns is Bliss! - or clouds dissolve
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandp...@... wrote: David, Well, Guru Dev speaks of thorns as a means to distinguish the Acacia from the Mango, and he refers to the practice of spreading thorns to keep away monkeys from crops. Further, he uses the Hindi word for thorns - kantak - in a poetic sense when he mentions that:- Thug log saadh vesh apana kar sachche saadhuon ki bari raksha karte hain, jaise gulab ke pushpon ko kantak raksha karte hain. 'Thugs who dress in the clothes of hermits greatly protect true sadhus, in the manner that thorns protect the rose.' (my own translation, from 'Guru Dev as Presented by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' - ISBN 978-0-9562228-2-4) Guru Dev tended to call a thorn a thorn, so to speak. But a Guru offering an analogy about thorns that wither away without one's giving any attention... Please cite your source. Dear Paul, sorry I got into this oppositional stance with you, maybe I had too much chocolate to eat that day! Whatever you think or do, that is OK by me - we each have our own unique karmas worked out by the infinite, so how can I criticise? But just for fun lets consider this analogy of thorns - a thorny problem, one might say... or maybe not! Clearly you are right, my analogy of thorns withering if we ignore them lacks some intellectual credibility! I can't give you a reference, because I just made it up, but I suppose my cloudy mind must have mixed up the thorns and the rose with the clouds that wither away with the rising sun, or are blown away by the wind, which is already blowing - this, I am pretty sure is from Love and God by Maharishi. That is precisely what I was trying to say - the clouds of ignorance and negativity are withering in the rising sunshine of Sat Yuga, the age of Enlightenment, Global Ram Raj, or whatever we want to call it. Let us welcome the rising sun! Thanks for giving me the intellectual challenge that sharpened my thinking, and made me better able to express myself. David
[FairfieldLife] The Source Of Rising Consciousness is up TurqB's Ass!
We can all see that world consciousness is rising, but from whence? Maharishi said he tried to locate this source of the rise of world consciousness, and concluded that it was coming from everywhere at once. It must be obvious to those within, without, and on the fringe of the TM organization that the source of all the spiritual thinking in Fairfield is the Golden Domes. Why does anyone feel the need to defend or question the obvious? Maharishi's greatest innovation (maybe) is the group practice of TM. I like to think of TM as a bit like a man sitting (for argument's sake) in a cage suspended by a thick elastic band, hanging over a mine shaft; the elastic band represents the effect of the noisy collective consciousness keeping him from going deep. When more people join him in the cage, it falls further down the shaft in proportion to the combined weight (this is where the US TM obesity could be seen as an advantage - by the way, here in jolly old Blighty we appear to have the opposite problem, in that long programme seems to make people skinny), and he gets to enjoy the gems that are deep within. Without this blessing of group practice, we would not be able to access such deep levels of wakefulness so easily. David
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enjoy the Rose! - Indifference tothe thorns is Bliss!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, David Palmer davidpalmer108@ wrote: Yoga Sutras says that the Kleshas (mental thorns, obstacles to experience of aatmaa) are removed by effort and indifference, or application and non-attachment, abhyaasa vairaagyaabhyaam tan nirodhah. Or, as Maharishi would say, by an effortless effort. It is the vrittis (states of the mind, types of thought), not the kleshas, that are obstructed by effortless effort. Apologies for my poor memory. Jai Guru Dev First one has to achieve progress in Yoga (or samadhi) before the kleshas can be removed, that's the object of the other limbs of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga. By bringing the arrow back on the bow and achieving the full power of the mind and shooting it in the direction of *natural law* one obtains freedom. One compliments the other, without the outer guidance and support, the inner experience becomes absent or weakened. Patanjali devised *8*, read em', EIGHT limbs or means to Yoga, not just one! MMY was referring the the method of meditation itself (effortless effort) and not the overall subject of removal of the kleshas, if you're waiting for TM to 'kick in' you'll be waiting a long time for it to heal you, why not put you life in harmony with the laws of nature as well as meditate? This is what Patanjali is recommending for speedy progress to Yoga. Of course, if you're just interested in a little rest and a little inspiration now and then, then just keep what you're doing. Patanjali's recommendations are for serious students only! (TM is Yoga-lite for modernity) As MMY so accurately said (years ago when no one was looking), ...Each limb is designed to create the state of Yoga in the sphere of life to which it relates. Gita/on Yoga You're only getting a half a loaf my friend with TM the was it is being taught, if you're serious you'll look more deeply into the teaching of Yoga as prescribed by Patanjali and others... Yes Billy, I agree absolutely, you are totally right. But isn't it true that we do things related to all 8 limbs already in the TM programme. Which limbs do you feel we are neglecting?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello from the UK
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, davidpalmer108 davidpalmer108@ wrote: Someone was recently suggesting that transcending occurs through boredom. This is, of course, true - one is bored of more gross experience, and heads to something more subtle. More refined experience is always more attractive because it is more perfect, has fewer blemishes. That's not my experience at all. A lot of the people I know in FF are deeply interested in the subtle relative and celestial realms, and I'm the exact opposite. All that subtle stuff just bores me to no end. Talking about subtle levels could be boring; I don't think experiencing them would be. Do you get my drift?
[FairfieldLife] Enjoy the Rose! - Indifference tothe thorns is Bliss!
Thanks for your very friendly and encouraging responses to my first post. Someone said Ignorance is Bliss, and it is such a beautiful point that he made that I must elaborate on it.(Everyone is the Guru deep down, and it is locating His message, reflected in the speech of this or that nervous system, that we must strive to do, to save us from being caught in unpleasantness): We should strive to enjoy the beauty of the roses, not focus on the thorns; we forgive the thorns, and trust that they will wither without our attention. Every thing in creation is relative and dual; everything has beauty from one angle, and not such from another. Even Maharishi and TM cannot escape this. Maharishi was just a man (albeit an exceptionally great one in all of history) and we cannot expect perfection from him, and also the Spiritual Regeneration Movement could never, because it is also relative, be perfect. But let us all enjoy the magnificence of the goals and achievements of Maharishi and TM, let us not dwell on the failings, it is unkind to those well-meaning souls who are striving for our benefit. Who could conceive of, and establish a Global Country of World Peace unifying the whole of humanity in Harmony? It is such a huge, wonderful vision. Let us all enjoy it together, and encourge it to grow! Jai Guru Dev David
[FairfieldLife] Hello from the UK
I came across your group by chance the other day, and have been trying to catch up with your insane banter ever since. How you treated that poor lady who thanked you for letting her join was quite scandalous, but I guess one must expect a tough initiation from a group like yours. Someone was recently suggesting that transcending occurs through boredom. This is, of course, true - one is bored of more gross experience, and heads to something more subtle. More refined experience is always more attractive because it is more perfect, has fewer blemishes. But our dear Maharishi was always positive, so he saw transcending as a path to increasing bliss (aanandaad dheva...), and not a retreat from boredom. Relativity is always dual, we can always view something from two sides. It is our choice whether we focus on positive or negative. The TMO never expresses negativity because Maharishi said we shouldn't focus on it (Maa vid dvishaavahai) - It is just a waste of energy. By the way, I don't have a badge - I hope that will be OK Jai Guru Dev David
