[FairfieldLife] Don't Throw Out the Baby with the Bathwater (Re: Have YOU killed..?)
The question of whether Jesus "died for our sins" may not be as trivial as it
looks on the surface.
It is a well-accepted doctrine in the East that a spiritual master often works
out the karma of members of his circle by processing it through his/her own
body. This can result in diseases and, in some cases, death for the master.
Also, many in the East regard Jesus as the "avatar," an incarnation of Vishnu,
the universal sustainer (Rama and Krishna were also avatars of Vishnu). If
Jesus was a "universal master" (a spiritual figure who claimed all humanity as
his students, many of them unconscious of the fact), there is a logical basis
for considering his sacrifice as having been on our behalf. One could also
consider Jesus' sacrifice as a kind of "clearing the atmosphere" of that time,
smoothing the path for future generations (Isaiah 40:4 uses a similar metaphor
when prophesying the coming of the Messiah).
On the foregoing basis, I'd answer Maharishi's question: "He both lived *and*
died for me."
[I will freely admit that most practicing Christians have a limited
understanding of the meaning of Jesus' sacrifice, and many other limitations in
their beliefs, e.g., exclusivism ("Jesus is the only way"), etc.]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" wrote:
> >
> > Once when a born again Christian (who also happened to be a TM teacher)
> > told Maharishi that Christ died for his sins, Maharishi replied: "Did he
> > die for you or did he live for you?"
> > (snip)
> Great observation, simple and true...
> The whole 'Died for YOu'...is so absurd.
...
> Crazy Religion!
> R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Don't Throw Out the Baby with the Bathwater (Re: Have YOU killed..?)
I have absolutely no argument with your reservations. I realized after sending that I'd neglected an important qualification to my understanding of how masters process the karmic impressions of those near them. It is not a wholesale processing. Only impressions which would defeat the disciple's role in the master's mission would be processed. I think the second way I imagined the meaning of Jesus "dying for our sins" is the most helpful. His sacrifice served to clear obstacles on many planes of existence which has sped up evolution for humanity and other life forms on this planet. We are all beneficiaries of that. When I consider Jesus' sacrifice, I don't imagine that it excuses me from having to own up to actions borne of wrong understanding. I consider the laws of karma to be something like the prescription of a cosmic "doctor," such that the experience which comes my way is specifically designed to trigger insight into how I "screwed up" in the past, and I can amend my ways. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" wrote: > I call this whole idea of Jesus "dying for my sins" as the "Free Lunch" > approach to karma. ... > What happened to taking responsibility for my OWN actions?
[FairfieldLife] 1977-79 MIU Music Student Wonders If Anyone's Heard From Paul Jones
[From Cameron McIntosh, a transfer student from Manhattan School of Music, who completed the first two years of core courses]. Paul was an Associate Professor of Music at the time I attended MIU (they were still hoping to put together a major). I've been thinking of him recently and became aware that he had left the Fairfield community sometime in 2007, after residing there for over thirty years. I never got to know Paul well, but he was a brilliant pianist and had an infectious and somewhat unconventional sense of humor. He seemed deeply devoted to TM, otherwise, I don't know what would have kept him in Fairfield. Another pianist who frequents MUM (Rob Steinberg) told me that Paul had moved to Boulder, CO, and through Google I was able to find a pianist of that name listed as an entertainer at one of Boulder's hotels. The one remaining faculty I still know at MUM didn't answer my Email inquiry after Paul. I hope he is well and that his move is having the desired outcome.
[FairfieldLife] '77-Entering Student Wonders About What Happened '76 With the Music Dept.
[From Cameron McIntosh, who attended MIU 1977-79] I happened to have gotten the last copy of the first "big" MIU catalog, and seemed to feel a connection with Eugene Maupin, a music professor pictured in the catalog. When I got to MIU in 1977, I heard that in 1976, there had been some sort of issue in the Music Department, which resulted in Mr. Maupin's departure. I thought I'd see if there's anyone from that era here who might be able to shed light on what happened. The explanations I heard at the time made me sad, and gave me the sense that a music major had been denied MIU because of either minor ideological differences, or personal differences. I learned a bit more about Mr. Maupin from a person who had been a student of his after he left MIU, and it seemed he was indeed the effective teacher which I had felt he was when noting his presence in the catalog and discussing him at MIU in '77. He also happened to be a pipe organist, which is what, through the grueling "school of hard knocks," I'm still trying to become (I'm the regular organist at my church). He had studied with one of the brilliant improvisors and Bach interpreters of our time, Helmut Walcha. (Students at MIU '77-'79 may remember me as the guy who played Bach on a marimba.)
[FairfieldLife] Has Anyone Heard of Michael Troese (Old Adjunct Faculty)?
Dear List: Please pardon the questions from an "old-timer"--after nearly thirty years of not thinking about my ties with MIU, these people (which in those days I didn't think much about) are coming back, and I find myself caring about them. I was very self-centered at the time I was a student, but the personalities which pass before my memory seem suddenly quite charming and worthwhile, now that the days of trying to be a "spiritual superman" are long past, and I can see the limitations of the human condition, and the adorableness hidden behind those limitations, more clearly. Jai Everyone, Cam McIntosh PS: Michael was a young TM teacher (if memory serves, a former student at the Berklee School of Music, and a pupil of Chuck Wayne) who taught some elective music courses when I was there (77-79). He taught the Schillinger System of Musical Composition, which I thought very esoteric at the time, but have since changed my views of. The only thing I could find on him on the web was copyright information for a set of guitar studies/pieces he had registered.
[FairfieldLife] Yearbook Page at MUM LIbrary
PDF's of old yearbooks are available at the MUM website. Might be helpful for group participants to point themselves out, and/or refresh their memories about classmates. I've been having a misty-eyed time looking at those dear people! http://www.mum.edu/yearbooks.html Cameron McIntosh Student '77-79
[FairfieldLife] Work-around for slow-loading Java (Re: Yearbook Page at MUM LIbrary)
I initially got to the yearbooks through the following page (opens a folder hierarchy which, for those who are used to it, can be used to browse around some of the MUM site resources). http://www.mum.edu/pdf/yearbooks/ Enjoy! Cam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yateendrajee" wrote: > > > > PDF's of old yearbooks are available at the MUM website. Might be > > helpful for group participants to point themselves out, and/or refresh > > their memories about classmates.
[FairfieldLife] MIU Staff--They Sparkle in Yearbook Pictures
As a student (77-79) I was aware that the sacrifice of staff was at "heroic" levels (they were spread thin). Yet of the group photos presented in the yearbooks, I feel the most persuasive feelings of love and enthusiasm radiate from the group photos of the "volunteer" staff (for example, see Page 78 of the 1978 Yearbook, available as PDF at MUM). In another thread I think it was "Vaj" who stated: *** According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the "support of nature" and so they were naturally more prosperous. My sense of a "caste"-like social stratification was one of the discomforts which led me to leave MIU after the second year. I went on to another spiritual group in which I took on a role similar to that of "volunteer staff" at MIU. However, in that other spiritual group, drudge-work like washing dishes, preparing food, and taking out the trash were considered "exalted spiritual practices," so there wasn't such a painful marginalization. Everyone who came to the ashram was given a seva [service] assignment. (However, later on, greater favoritism for VIP's also took hold in that group.) Bottom-line, I think it's important to consider whether God is, after all, an "equal opportunity employer," and if your paradigm makes spiritual progress contingent on paying exorbitant course fees (effectively "paying for enlightenment") whether that paradigm is actually consistent with the way God has structured spiritual progress here. I think the current downturn will reveal the limitations of the "more evolved = more money" assertion. I'm on my third guru now (definitely could be accused of "window shopping" in the spiritual domain!), and the focus of my spiritual practice is trying to "get it right" in my simple daily relationships with others. We all have an absolutely huge set of interconnections with others from past lives, and if we can "get it right" in even one interaction, it has the effect of loosening and lifting all the ties we have with others. My present teacher states that one cannot really become enlightened on ones own; we all help loosen and dissolve one another's samskaras through love. Cam
[FairfieldLife] Re: MIU Staff--They Sparkle in Yearbook Pictures
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG." wrote: > I think it's kind of important to remember that MMY is not a Guru, > nor has he ever claimed to be a Guru. You're right--I was using the word "guru" in a non-rigorous sense. I had mentioned how wonderful the staff looked just to hint that these giving and generous people may have been the ones getting "enlightenment" at MIU, not the people taking the expensive courses. I'm unqualified to render such a judgment, but am only offering the hint in case it resonates with the intuition of any readers. Cam
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here's some interesting documents for you Charlie Lutes fans...
Dear All: This morning a Google search landed me on a website when looking for something entirely different. The website was a tribute to Charlie Lutes by Vincent J. Daczynski (the man who is the successor trustee indicated in the 2002 document among those found by this thread's originator). Vincent had an acute heart condition and called on his dear friend Charlie: http://www.amazingabilities.com/charlie11a.html It appears that the closeness of Daczynski and the Lutes family explains his successor trusteeship. Cam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" wrote: > > Maricopa county's recorder's office lists all documents on the internet: > ... > > http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/20020451529.pdf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Confronting the shadow of spiritual dysfunction
Re: Amrit Desai and Kripalu Center. Our ashram (about which serious ethical questions regarding the leadership were raised) had a kind of informal friendship with the Kripalu Center (Amrit Desai's former group), so I studied its recovery with interest. I felt very happy about how much better the Kripalu resolved the crisis than about how we basically avoided ours, but am uncomfortable that Amrit Desai continued in the guru business. One thing which troubles me is how gurus, after they've been "busted" (for acts of hypocrisy) often eventually become gurus again without mentioning anything about their past mistakes. Amrit Desai's new website: http://www.amrityoga.com/ ...offers (so far as I can tell) no narration of his shady past (although Kripalu Center is mentioned) which included unhappy episodes of a sexual nature. While it is very understandable that he doesn't want people to know about his past mistakes, I would prefer that prospective students be able to judge the background themselves, to help balance their possibly very positive emotional response to the ashram environment. In many areas of civic life, government requires that fiduciaries provide disclosure of risks their clients are subject to. In many areas of the country, the whereabouts of sexual predators are disclosed to the community. How about some disclosure requirements for gurus? Cam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > Over the years since, the community has rebuilt itself, > dedicated to the principles of yoga and healthy spirituality that the > crisis of betrayal taught them. And the master too claims he has > learned important lessons from this process." [Jack Kornfield]
[FairfieldLife] Hi, TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: ...I'm just curious as to what drew you here, and what you have done with the aftermath of the "questions of leadership" that affected your ashram. I'm an MIU alum, and am undertaking a review of my spiritual past. You'll notice I've made a few posts recently. The "questions of leadership" at my ashram came to my attention after I'd left the ashram. Within a couple of years of that revelation, I became associated with my present traditon. I've been dialoging backchannel with an old MIU classmate who has participated in this list. I've also corresponded with a former MIU professor who, ironically, feels a close relationship with the tradition I'm currently following (although he's still deeply involved with the TM movement). That latter dialogue has taught me to remember the many positive things about TM, and I do feel there are many strong positives. For example, I recently needed relief for apparent stress caused by my caregiving duties (24-7) for a family member, and found TM quite effective in relieving the symptoms of excess stress. But there have been, now and then, some things about my understanding of the movement which I've felt a bit uncomfortable about. I feel there are people here who might help me understand more about these issues. Yours, Cameron D. McIntosh
[FairfieldLife] Clarification Requested On the Financing of Centers
Vaj's Jack Kornfield quote on problem areas with gurus reminded me of an unanswered question. When I was initiated, my best sense of the "status quo" was that the operation of the center was financed collectively by the initiators who taught there, through proceeds from a portion of the initiation fees. The ongoing programs (checking, lectures) didn't generate revenue and were not subsidized by TM's parent organization (TMO). A couple of years ago, I received a mailing from a guy who was setting up a TM Center in my area. He was renting a suite in a rather upscale mall. I Emailed wishing him good luck, wondering if he was receiving "seed money" from TMO, and cautioning him to be careful if he was not. I never received a reply. A little web-cruising suggests that the planned center is indeed in operation, with a spa to boot (though the spa seems to have been discontinued). Somewhere (though probably more than one conversation) I'd concluded that initiators were being quite selfless in their service to the meditator community, and that the bulk of income from their services went to the parent organization. Has this pattern changed (I hope)? Cam McIntosh --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > "One common area of danger in spiritual communities is the misuse of > power > A second problem area for teachers and communities can be the misuse > of money > A third common area of harm is misuse of sexuality.
[FairfieldLife] How to Get a Double-Line Author Display (I Assume it's In the Profile)
I've noticed that some folks have two lines in the "author" column in the "Messages" section of the Yahoo! Groups Web Interface. All I have is a single line with my profile name (yateendrajee). I'd be happy to have my given name appear, so if anyone can explain how to create a top line in the "author field" please let me know. Thanks, Cam McIntosh
[FairfieldLife] Re: Christian Science Monitor: The Coming Evangelical Collapse
To offer a slight clarification, this article expresses Mr. Spencer's opinion and not that of the CS Monitor or Christian Science Church (I'm a branch church member and did a "double take" until I checked the source page). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal wrote: > > http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html > > The coming evangelical collapse > An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But > out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise. > By Michael Spencer
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi Central University [Re: Irresponsible Advice]
Regarding Maharishi Central University, here's a video news clip from a television station in Hastings, NE, which was produced in May, 2008. http://new.khastv.com/modules/news/article.php?storytopic=10&storyid=13392 I have been away from the TM movement for twenty-seven years, and this clip revives memories of discomfort over how grandiose things were getting when I left. Yet my memories of the TM community and attendance at MIU include deep, positive feelings of idealism, inner freedom and people all around me making personal sacrifices for higher, mutual ideals. Those ideals are embodied in the architectural computer animations and the partially completed buildings of the MCU campus in Smith Center, KS. Lately I've been musing on how the trajectory of the TM Organization, and that of the path I took afterwards, seems to parallel the path of Western society as a whole over the last 25 years or so. There has been a mood of optimism and dynamic progress, followed by a period of "irrational exuberance," and now we find that we went a little too far and need to bring our optimism (reflected in the value of assets) back closer to "concrete reality." Unfortunately, the tendency in a contraction is to become too pessimistic, so the value of assets plunges below what would be rational. I'm afraid the TM movement will be facing this contraction, just as wider society will. But does that mean that spirituality is headed for a contraction as well? IMO, Absolutely not! According to my intuition, history shows that the greatest spiritual progress has been made during the hardest times. God doesn't need a huge infrastructure to help his souls learn what he sent them here to learn. In the early seventies, the late historian and social commentator Studs Terkel collected audio interviews for his book "Hard Times" (selections on webpage below). Check out his conversation with Peggy Terry (near the bottom of the page). She didn't earn a Ph.D. (barely finished the sixth grade) but check out the revolution in her understanding as the result of living through the Great Depression! http://www.studsterkel.org/htimes.php --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91" wrote: > Anyone have any news on the 10,000's of students queuing up for Maharishi > Central University? Last I heard Wynne was telling lies about how wonderful > it was all going, while the local newspaper was reporting that the girders > were rusting quite nicely and the weeds were coming along just fine but apart > from that nothing was happening.
