Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

perhaps it will dawn on you some day, Michael, that physics, like every other 
branch is an evolving science.  this piece by Hagel may one day be shown to be 
prescient, or may one day sound like a backward thinking scientist.  Perhaps we 
will find out. 

 Of course, there are statements by much greater pioneers in physics who have 
speculated, just the opposite of Hagels.  But acknowledging that would be the 
equivalent of throwing sand into the gearworks of your mind.
 

 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Why don't you ask Pagels if he has a degree in physics? Just because you want 
there to be a correlation between quantum physics and meditation ain't gone 
make it so.
 

 "certainly could be coded in Indian science" - this is a horseshit 
observation. Prove it and then Pagels will have to eat his words.
 

 You are also misreading the post. Pagels says nothing about ayurveda - the 
author merely referred to Chopra as a defender of ayurveda. Pagels is 
specifically addressing the idea that modern physics is found in ancient Hindu 
claptrap and that the claptrap is validated by modern physics. 

 

 From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics
 
 
   
 Do you have a physics degree, Michael?  A bit of what is in physics goes back 
centuries to Greece and other countries like China and yup probably India as 
well.  It's just observation and certainly could be coded in Indian science.  
Pagels must not know biochemistry or just thought that ayurveda uses exotic 
herbs he didn't have access too.  Examining the chemical properties of 
cinnamon, ginger, fennel, cloves he might have had a different opinion.
 
 
 On 11/05/2014 11:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics wrapped in 
metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof Capra in his book The 
Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and 
Eastern Mysticism (1975). 
 
 
 
 The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient religions and 
modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect the two is an abysmal 
failure and about the purest poppycock this side of Bombay. 
 
 
 
 Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced numerous New 
Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum physics proves the reality 
of everything from chi and prana to ESP http://www.skepdic.com/esp.html. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists but 
books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's The Dancing Wu Li Masters : An Overview of 
the New Physics (1976)overshadow and are much more popular than more sensible 
books written by physicists. 
 
 
 Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are fond of 
claiming that modern physics has substantially validated ancient Hindu 
metaphysics. 
 
 
 
 However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics 
as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is any 
significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the 
metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would 
claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. 
Pagels. 
 
 

 The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do with the 
"field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what physicists call "the 
vacuum state" has anything to do with consciousness is nonsense. The claim that 
large numbers of people meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating a 
unified field of consciousness is foolishness of a high order. 
 
 
 
 The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and apparently 
supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure consciousness can only be 
intended to deceive those who might not know any better.
 
 
 Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me distress because 
I am a man who values the truth. To see the beautiful and profound ideas of 
modern physics, the labor of generations of scientists, so willfully perverted 
provokes a feeling of compassion for those who might be taken in by these 
distortions. I would like to be generous to the Maharishi and his movement 
because it supports world peace and other high ideals. But none of these ideals 
could possibly be realized within the framework of a philosophy that so 
willfully distorts scientific truth (Pagels 
http://web.archive.org/web/19990420021943/http:/www.trancenet.org/research/pagels.shtml).
 
 
 From:

 http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html
  
  
 http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html
  
  
  
  
  
 Deepak Chopra - The Skeptic's Dict

Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

You are correct - I was referring to the letter that Pagels wrote which I also 
posted but I see in hind sight that you were referring to the first post and 
not the full letter - I stand corrected.




 From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics
 


  
On 11/05/2014 11:42 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

  
>Why don't you ask Pagels if he has a degree in physics? Just because you want 
>there to be a correlation between quantum physics and meditation ain't gone 
>make it so.
>
>
>"certainly could be coded in Indian science" - this is a horseshit 
>observation. Prove it and then Pagels will have to eat his words.
>
>
This is the narcissism of believing that our current civilization is
the most advanced that EVER existed on this planet. That can't be
correlated because real scientists have figured that after 5000 year
much evidence of a civilization would have deteriorated.  All you
get is stone masonry and broken pottery.


You are also misreading the post. Pagels says nothing about ayurveda - the 
author merely referred to Chopra as a defender of ayurveda. Pagels is 
specifically addressing the idea that modern physics is found in ancient Hindu 
claptrap and that the claptrap is validated by modern physics. 
>
>
>
You don't even read the stuff you post?


However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics 
as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is any 
significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the 
metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would 
claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. 
Pagels. 
 




>
> From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 
> 
>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics
> 
>
>
>  
>Do you have a physics degree, Michael?  A bit of what is in physics goes back 
>centuries to Greece and other countries like China and yup probably India as 
>well.  It's just observation and certainly could be coded in Indian science.  
>Pagels must not know biochemistry or just thought that ayurveda uses exotic 
>herbs he didn't have access too.  Examining the chemical properties of 
>cinnamon, ginger, fennel, cloves he might have had a different opinion.
>
>
>On 11/05/2014 11:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
>wrote:
>
>  
>>The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics wrapped in 
>>metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof Capra in his book The 
>>Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and 
>>Eastern Mysticism (1975). 
>>
>>
>>
>>The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient religions and 
>>modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect the two is an abysmal 
>>failure and about the purest poppycock this side of Bombay. 
>>
>>
>>
>>Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced numerous New 
>>Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum physics proves the 
>>reality of everything from chi and prana to ESP. 
>>
>>
>>
>>The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists but 
>>books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's The Dancing Wu Li Masters : An Overview 
>>of the New Physics (1976) overshadow and are much more popular than more 
>>sensible books written by physicists.  
>>
>>
>>Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are fond 
>>of claiming that modern physics has substantially validated ancient Hindu 
>>metaphysics. 
>>
>>
>>
>>However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum 
>>Physics as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is 
>>any significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and 
>>the metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know 
>>would claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," 
>>says Dr. Pagels. 
>>
>>
>>
>>The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do with the 
>>"field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what physicists call "the 
>>vacuum state" has anything to do with consciousness is nonsense. The claim 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 11/05/2014 11:42 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
Why don't you ask Pagels if he has a degree in physics? Just because 
you want there to be a correlation between quantum physics and 
meditation ain't gone make it so.


"certainly could be coded in Indian science" - this is a horseshit 
observation. Prove it and then Pagels will have to eat his words.




This is the narcissism of believing that our current civilization is the 
most advanced that EVER existed on this planet. That can't be correlated 
because real scientists have figured that after 5000 year much evidence 
of a civilization would have deteriorated.  All you get is stone masonry 
and broken pottery.


You are also misreading the post. Pagels says nothing about ayurveda - 
the author merely referred to Chopra as a defender of ayurveda. Pagels 
is specifically addressing the idea that modern physics is found in 
ancient Hindu claptrap and that the claptrap is validated by modern 
physics.




You don't even read the stuff you post?

/However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum 
Physics as the Language of Nature 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0553246259/roberttoddcarrolA/> 
vehemently rejects the notion that there is any significant connection 
between the discoveries of modern physicists and the metaphysical claims 
of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would claim to find 
such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. Pagels.

/
//





*From:* "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 


*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:26 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

Do you have a physics degree, Michael?  A bit of what is in physics 
goes back centuries to Greece and other countries like China and yup 
probably India as well.  It's just observation and certainly could be 
coded in Indian science.  Pagels must not know biochemistry or just 
thought that ayurveda uses exotic herbs he didn't have access too.  
Examining the chemical properties of cinnamon, ginger, fennel, cloves 
he might have had a different opinion.



On 11/05/2014 11:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 
<mailto:mjackso...@yahoo.com> [FairfieldLife] wrote:
The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics 
wrapped in metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof 
Capra in his book /The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the 
Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism/ (1975).


The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient 
religions and modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect 
the two is an abysmal failure and about the purest poppycock this 
side of Bombay.


Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced 
numerous New Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum 
physics proves the reality of everything from chi and prana to ESP 
<http://www.skepdic.com/esp.html>.


The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists 
but books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's /The Dancing Wu Li Masters : 
An Overview of the New Physics /(1976) overshadow and are much more 
popular than more sensible books written by physicists.


Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, 
are fond of claiming that modern physics has substantially validated 
ancient Hindu metaphysics.


However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of /The Cosmic Code: 
Quantum Physics as the Language of Nature 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0553246259/roberttoddcarrolA/>/ 
vehemently rejects the notion that there is any significant 
connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the 
metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know 
would claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing 
fraud," says Dr. Pagels.


The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do
with the "field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what
physicists call "the vacuum state" has anything to do with
consciousness is nonsense. The claim that large numbers of people
meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating a unified field
of consciousness is foolishness of a high order.

The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and
apparently supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure
consciousness can only be intended to deceive those who might not
know any better.

Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me
distress because I am a man who values the truth. To see the
beautiful and profound ideas of modern physics, the labor of
generations of scientists, so willfully perverted provokes a

Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Why don't you ask Pagels if he has a degree in physics? Just because you want 
there to be a correlation between quantum physics and meditation ain't gone 
make it so.

"certainly could be coded in Indian science" - this is a horseshit observation. 
Prove it and then Pagels will have to eat his words.

You are also misreading the post. Pagels says nothing about ayurveda - the 
author merely referred to Chopra as a defender of ayurveda. Pagels is 
specifically addressing the idea that modern physics is found in ancient Hindu 
claptrap and that the claptrap is validated by modern physics. 




 From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics
 


  
Do you have a physics degree, Michael?  A bit of what is in physics goes back 
centuries to Greece and other countries like China and yup probably India as 
well.  It's just observation and certainly could be coded in Indian science.  
Pagels must not know biochemistry or just thought that ayurveda uses exotic 
herbs he didn't have access too.  Examining the chemical properties of 
cinnamon, ginger, fennel, cloves he might have had a different opinion.


On 11/05/2014 11:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

  
>The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics wrapped in 
>metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof Capra in his book The 
>Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and 
>Eastern Mysticism (1975). 
>
>
>
>The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient religions and 
>modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect the two is an abysmal 
>failure and about the purest poppycock this side of Bombay. 
>
>
>
>Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced numerous New 
>Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum physics proves the reality 
>of everything from chi and prana to ESP. 
>
>
>
>The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists but 
>books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's The Dancing Wu Li Masters : An Overview of 
>the New Physics (1976) overshadow and are much more popular than more sensible 
>books written by physicists.  
>
>
>Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are fond of 
>claiming that modern physics has substantially validated ancient Hindu 
>metaphysics. 
>
>
>
>However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics 
>as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is any 
>significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the 
>metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would 
>claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. 
>Pagels. 
>
>
>
>The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do with the 
>"field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what physicists call "the 
>vacuum state" has anything to do with consciousness is nonsense. The claim 
>that large numbers of people meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating 
>a unified field of consciousness is foolishness of a high order. 
>>
>>
>>
>>The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and apparently 
>>supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure consciousness can only 
>>be intended to deceive those who might not know any better.
>>
>>
>>Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me distress 
>>because I am a man who values the truth. To see the beautiful and profound 
>>ideas of modern physics, the labor of generations of scientists, so willfully 
>>perverted provokes a feeling of compassion for those who might be taken in by 
>>these distortions. I would like to be generous to the Maharishi and his 
>>movement because it supports world peace and other high ideals. But none of 
>>these ideals could possibly be realized within the framework of a philosophy 
>>that so willfully distorts scientific truth (Pagels).
>
>
>From:
>
>http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html 
>  
> 
>Deepak Chopra - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com 
>From Abracadabra to Zombies | View All a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r  
>
> 
>View on www.skepdic.com Preview by Yahoo 
>
> 
>  
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Do you have a physics degree, Michael? A bit of what is in physics goes 
back centuries to Greece and other countries like China and yup probably 
India as well.  It's just observation and certainly could be coded in 
Indian science. Pagels must not know biochemistry or just thought that 
ayurveda uses exotic herbs he didn't have access too.  Examining the 
chemical properties of cinnamon, ginger, fennel, cloves he might have 
had a different opinion.



On 11/05/2014 11:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics 
wrapped in metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof 
Capra in his book /The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels 
Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism/ (1975).


The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient 
religions and modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect 
the two is an abysmal failure and about the purest poppycock this side 
of Bombay.


Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced 
numerous New Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum 
physics proves the reality of everything from chi and prana to ESP 
.


The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists 
but books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's /The Dancing Wu Li Masters : 
An Overview of the New Physics /(1976) overshadow and are much more 
popular than more sensible books written by physicists.


Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are 
fond of claiming that modern physics has substantially validated 
ancient Hindu metaphysics.


However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of /The Cosmic Code: 
Quantum Physics as the Language of Nature 
/ vehemently 
rejects the notion that there is any significant connection between 
the discoveries of modern physicists and the metaphysical claims of 
Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would claim to find such 
a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. Pagels.


The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do
with the "field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what
physicists call "the vacuum state" has anything to do with
consciousness is nonsense. The claim that large numbers of people
meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating a unified field
of consciousness is foolishness of a high order.

The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and
apparently supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure
consciousness can only be intended to deceive those who might not
know any better.

Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me
distress because I am a man who values the truth. To see the
beautiful and profound ideas of modern physics, the labor of
generations of scientists, so willfully perverted provokes a
feeling of compassion for those who might be taken in by these
distortions. I would like to be generous to the Maharishi and his
movement because it supports world peace and other high ideals.
But none of these ideals could possibly be realized within the
framework of a philosophy that so willfully distorts scientific
truth (Pagels

).


From:
http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html

image 





Deepak Chopra - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com 

From Abracadabra to Zombies | View All a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p 
q r


View on www.skepdic.com 

Preview by Yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Hindu Physics

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics wrapped in 
metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof Capra in his book The 
Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and 
Eastern Mysticism (1975). 


The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient religions and 
modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect the two is an abysmal 
failure and about the purest poppycock this side of Bombay. 


Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced numerous New Age 
energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum physics proves the reality of 
everything from chi and prana to ESP. 


The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists but books 
like Capra's and Gary Zukav's The Dancing Wu Li Masters : An Overview of the 
New Physics (1976) overshadow and are much more popular than more sensible 
books written by physicists.  

Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are fond of 
claiming that modern physics has substantially validated ancient Hindu 
metaphysics. 


However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics 
as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is any 
significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the 
metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would 
claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. 
Pagels. 


The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do with the "field 
of consciousness" is false. The notion that what physicists call "the vacuum 
state" has anything to do with consciousness is nonsense. The claim that large 
numbers of people meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating a unified 
field of consciousness is foolishness of a high order. 
>
>
>
>The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and apparently 
>supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure consciousness can only be 
>intended to deceive those who might not know any better.
>
>
>Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me distress because 
>I am a man who values the truth. To see the beautiful and profound ideas of 
>modern physics, the labor of generations of scientists, so willfully perverted 
>provokes a feeling of compassion for those who might be taken in by these 
>distortions. I would like to be generous to the Maharishi and his movement 
>because it supports world peace and other high ideals. But none of these 
>ideals could possibly be realized within the framework of a philosophy that so 
>willfully distorts scientific truth (Pagels).

From:

http://www.skepdic.com/chopra.html 
  
 
Deepak Chopra - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
>From Abracadabra to Zombies | View All a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r   
View on www.skepdic.com Preview by Yahoo