Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Would you kindly speak a simple English to me? Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:47 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" Are these same "Nazi-esque" ideas from the TMO and Mahesian Reich being seen in even (presumably independent and autonomous) movement-derived Neoadvaita satsangs like the FF satsang you have attended? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 14, 2007, at 8:46 PM, Bronte Baxter wrote: Vaj wrote: As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned, and highly evolved. In some cases the story is told that the demon had the choice of being born into a series of righteous lives or one demonic life in which they would be killed by the Lord and thus liberated. They chose the demonic life. I don’t presume to know the karmic mechanics behind the holocaust. The perpetrators of it, and especially Hitler, certainly seemed evil by all normal standards, but the universe is a strange place. Who can say with certainty where Hitler’s soul is now? Is he suffering in hell or was he really some great soul that chose to play a role very distasteful by civilized standards? I would like to think he’s suffering in hell, but who really knows? It seems the light and dark forces are always balancing each other out. There need to be great souls on both sides. In the ultimate analysis, is one side really “good” and the other “bad,” or is it all just a big Lila? I’d say yes, in the relative, good and bad both exist and I’d rather be on the good side. But is that God’s perspective, or just my limited relative viewpoint? Ultimately, isn’t it all just God playing all the roles to entertain Himself? Obviously I have more questions than answers. I did not write this. Please be careful in your replies to posts. This was written by the author of the original message on FFL, not me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:47 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" Are these same "Nazi-esque" ideas from the TMO and Mahesian Reich being seen in even (presumably independent and autonomous) movement- derived Neoadvaita satsangs like the FF satsang you have attended?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Vaj wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Bhairitu wrote: > >> One has to look beyond Hitler and follow the money. He was trained and >> used by those who wanted to control the world and still want to today. >> Nazism was designed to appeal to the country folk (I've heard Hitler was >> not so popular in the cities) who usually wind up in the armies anyway. >> It was a failed first attempt at a "New World Order" or "Global >> Society." Exterminating the Jews was just a start as they wanted to get >> rid of everyone who didn't fit their "ideal society." I've read "Mein >> Kampf" and saw why the first 50 pages would have hooked people but then >> it fell into an disgusting badly written rant. As long as they got >> people to read the first few pages they hooked their supporters. >> Likewise Bush's speeches are designed to evoke emotional control in all >> but the brightest in this country who see right through them. >> Fortunately they seem to have underestimated the intelligence of the >> majority though. :) > > > The BBC documentary (available free on Google Video) The Occult > History of the Third Reich really does a good job overall of > summarizing the religious and nationalistic tendencies that were > happening back then. Most shocking to me when I first saw it, was how > it was all proceeded by a New Age movement not unlike what started in > 1960's USA. Perhaps it will disabuse you from Alex Jones conspiracy > ideas :-). Honestly I was waiting for you to tie this all into war > industrialists stemming from Dubya's grandfather! See my reply under "But Then It Was Too Late" about the video and my favorite book on the subject which I need to take better care of since it is now a "rare" book. I also have a 3 DVD set that was put out a few years ago on the subject but disappointing. There may have been some better History or Discovery channel documentaries too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Vaj wrote: As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned, and highly evolved. In some cases the story is told that the demon had the choice of being born into a series of righteous lives or one demonic life in which they would be killed by the Lord and thus liberated. They chose the demonic life. I dont presume to know the karmic mechanics behind the holocaust. The perpetrators of it, and especially Hitler, certainly seemed evil by all normal standards, but the universe is a strange place. Who can say with certainty where Hitlers soul is now? Is he suffering in hell or was he really some great soul that chose to play a role very distasteful by civilized standards? I would like to think hes suffering in hell, but who really knows? It seems the light and dark forces are always balancing each other out. There need to be great souls on both sides. In the ultimate analysis, is one side really good and the other bad, or is it all just a big Lila? Id say yes, in the relative, good and bad both exist and Id rather be on the good side. But is that Gods perspective, or just my limited relative viewpoint? Ultimately, isnt it all just God playing all the roles to entertain Himself? Obviously I have more questions than answers. -- My friends response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Bronte writes: Your response that "maybe Hitler's actions were all for the cosmic purpose" is precisely an example of the kind of thinking Angela says the Nazis perpetrated to excuse their own behaviors. She says the phrase "established in Being, perform action" -- one of Maharishi primary slogan's -- was used. You've added some strong evidence to Angela's allegation that the purpose of meditative movements is to take people over and control their minds. - Bronte Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dedicated to Nablososs Jai Guru Dev Love, Sri Sri Vaj Illuminati Headquarters Brocken Mountain, Germany from Msg.# 16079 Maharishi on Hitler This is from a Jewish friend who was full-time in the TMO for many years, including Purusha and International Staff in Vlodrop and elsewhere. Hes now with a different teacher. We had a private discussion about this a couple of months ago and I asked if I could post this. He said I could but asked that I not mention his name. Some time after being on Purusha, I discovered, to my great amazement, that some German Purusha were wearing swastikas under their ties, celebrating Hitler's birthday, and generally feeling very bully about the whole thing. I remembered what Frank Pappentine told me a few years back during our 6-month course in Arosa (we were good friends during that course): that Maharishi had met with the Germans in Seelisberg and told them that the Allies presented Hitler as a great demon to suppress the German morale, that the facts were different and that Hitler was, in fact, a good strong leader. I heard that from Maharishi myself, in Washington DC in 1983, when a reporter asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said, that Hitler was actually a good strong leader who unified Germany, it's just too bad that he did so much indiscriminate killing. All these caused me quite a shock at the time, and finally I decided to confront a question that had bothered me from childhood: how could intelligent, sophisticated Germans (and some of the leaders of his party and the SS were indeed sophisticated and intelligent) follow him? Some of them were reputed to be lovers of classical music, devoted husbands, doting fathers, fond of animals and loved to tend their rose gardens -- but had no problem going to work in the morning, work being the extermination of yet another transport of thousands of Jews. I asked one of my German "friends" to get me some Nazi literature about Hitler, that I was interested in learning more about how THEY viewed him. One of them got me a few magazines which were published on high-quality paper, with no ads (so a lot of money was involved). The magazines were all in German. I struggled through the articles, and was particularly struck by two of them: one about Hitler's love affairs, and another an account by his driver, who was the last person to see Hitler alive. The one about the love affairs was interesting: it turned out, that although he was partially impotent -- some of his aids were constantly on the lookout for any medical doctor who could provide him with a preparation to increase his potency -- once he had an affair with a woman, that woman was so enamored with him, that when he left her she committed suicide. This has happened a number of times. It even happened in the case of a British woman, who was in England when Churchill declare
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
I have no idea what you mean when you say, "And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups?" As for your other question, "Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh "yogis" spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 14, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Bhairitu wrote: One has to look beyond Hitler and follow the money. He was trained and used by those who wanted to control the world and still want to today. Nazism was designed to appeal to the country folk (I've heard Hitler was not so popular in the cities) who usually wind up in the armies anyway. It was a failed first attempt at a "New World Order" or "Global Society." Exterminating the Jews was just a start as they wanted to get rid of everyone who didn't fit their "ideal society." I've read "Mein Kampf" and saw why the first 50 pages would have hooked people but then it fell into an disgusting badly written rant. As long as they got people to read the first few pages they hooked their supporters. Likewise Bush's speeches are designed to evoke emotional control in all but the brightest in this country who see right through them. Fortunately they seem to have underestimated the intelligence of the majority though. :) The BBC documentary (available free on Google Video) The Occult History of the Third Reich really does a good job overall of summarizing the religious and nationalistic tendencies that were happening back then. Most shocking to me when I first saw it, was how it was all proceeded by a New Age movement not unlike what started in 1960's USA. Perhaps it will disabuse you from Alex Jones conspiracy ideas :-). Honestly I was waiting for you to tie this all into war industrialists stemming from Dubya's grandfather!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be "instrumental" in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Vaj wrote: > Dedicated to Nablososs > > Jai Guru Dev > > Love, > > Sri Sri Vaj > Illuminati Headquarters > Brocken Mountain, Germany > > from Msg.# 16079 > > Maharishi on Hitler > > This is from a Jewish friend who was full-time in the TMO for many > years, including Purusha and International Staff in Vlodrop and > elsewhere. Hes now with a different teacher. We had a private > discussion about this a couple of months ago and I asked if I could > post this. He said I could but asked that I not mention his name. > > > > Some time after being on Purusha, I discovered, to my great amazement, > that some German Purusha were wearing swastikas under their ties, > celebrating Hitler's birthday, and generally feeling very bully about > the whole thing. I remembered what Frank Pappentine told me a few > years back during our 6-month course in Arosa (we were good friends > during that course): that Maharishi had met with the Germans in > Seelisberg and told them that the Allies presented Hitler as a great > demon to suppress the German morale, that the facts were different and > that Hitler was, in fact, a good strong leader. > > I heard that from Maharishi myself, in Washington DC in 1983, when a > reporter asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said, that Hitler was > actually a good strong leader who unified Germany, it's just too bad > that he did so much indiscriminate killing. > > All these caused me quite a shock at the time, and finally I decided > to confront a question that had bothered me from childhood: how could > intelligent, sophisticated Germans (and some of the leaders of his > party and the SS were indeed sophisticated and intelligent) follow > him? Some of them were reputed to be lovers of classical music, > devoted husbands, doting fathers, fond of animals and loved to tend > their rose gardens -- but had no problem going to work in the morning, > work being the extermination of yet another transport of thousands of > Jews. > > -- > > My friends response was that that attitude was a cop-out which > allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other > leaders. > > One has to look beyond Hitler and follow the money. He was trained and used by those who wanted to control the world and still want to today. Nazism was designed to appeal to the country folk (I've heard Hitler was not so popular in the cities) who usually wind up in the armies anyway. It was a failed first attempt at a "New World Order" or "Global Society." Exterminating the Jews was just a start as they wanted to get rid of everyone who didn't fit their "ideal society." I've read "Mein Kampf" and saw why the first 50 pages would have hooked people but then it fell into an disgusting badly written rant. As long as they got people to read the first few pages they hooked their supporters. Likewise Bush's speeches are designed to evoke emotional control in all but the brightest in this country who see right through them. Fortunately they seem to have underestimated the intelligence of the majority though. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Vaj wrote: > Dedicated to Nablososs > > Jai Guru Dev > > Love, > > Sri Sri Vaj > Illuminati Headquarters > Brocken Mountain, Germany > > from Msg.# 16079 > > Maharishi on Hitler > > This is from a Jewish friend who was full-time in the TMO for many > years, including Purusha and International Staff in Vlodrop and > elsewhere. He’s now with a different teacher. We had a private > discussion about this a couple of months ago and I asked if I could > post this. He said I could but asked that I not mention his name. > > > > Some time after being on Purusha, I discovered, to my great amazement, > that some German Purusha were wearing swastikas under their ties, > celebrating Hitler's birthday, and generally feeling very bully about > the whole thing. I remembered what Frank Pappentine told me a few > years back during our 6-month course in Arosa (we were good friends > during that course): that Maharishi had met with the Germans in > Seelisberg and told them that the Allies presented Hitler as a great > demon to suppress the German morale, that the facts were different and > that Hitler was, in fact, a good strong leader. > > I heard that from Maharishi myself, in Washington DC in 1983, when a > reporter asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said, that Hitler was > actually a good strong leader who unified Germany, it's just too bad > that he did so much indiscriminate killing. > > All these caused me quite a shock at the time, and finally I decided > to confront a question that had bothered me from childhood: how could > intelligent, sophisticated Germans (and some of the leaders of his > party and the SS were indeed sophisticated and intelligent) follow > him? Some of them were reputed to be lovers of classical music, > devoted husbands, doting fathers, fond of animals and loved to tend > their rose gardens -- but had no problem going to work in the morning, > work being the extermination of yet another transport of thousands of > Jews. > > -- > > My friend’s response was that that attitude was a cop-out which > allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other > leaders. > > One has to look beyond Hitler and follow the money. He was trained and used by those who wanted to control the world and still want to today. Nazism was designed to appeal to the country folk (I've heard Hitler was not so popular in the cities) who usually wind up in the armies anyway. It was a failed first attempt at a "New World Order" or "Global Society." Exterminating the Jews was just a start as they wanted to get rid of everyone who didn't fit their "ideal society." I've read "Mein Kampf" and saw why the first 50 pages would have hooked people but then it fell into an disgusting badly written rant. As long as they got people to read the first few pages they hooked their supporters. Likewise Bush's speeches are designed to evoke emotional control in all but the brightest in this country who see right through them. Fortunately they seem to have underestimated the intelligence of the majority though. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Mahesh and Hitler
Dedicated to Nablososs Jai Guru Dev Love, Sri Sri Vaj Illuminati Headquarters Brocken Mountain, Germany from Msg.# 16079 Maharishi on Hitler This is from a Jewish friend who was full-time in the TMO for many years, including Purusha and International Staff in Vlodrop and elsewhere. He’s now with a different teacher. We had a private discussion about this a couple of months ago and I asked if I could post this. He said I could but asked that I not mention his name. Some time after being on Purusha, I discovered, to my great amazement, that some German Purusha were wearing swastikas under their ties, celebrating Hitler's birthday, and generally feeling very bully about the whole thing. I remembered what Frank Pappentine told me a few years back during our 6-month course in Arosa (we were good friends during that course): that Maharishi had met with the Germans in Seelisberg and told them that the Allies presented Hitler as a great demon to suppress the German morale, that the facts were different and that Hitler was, in fact, a good strong leader. I heard that from Maharishi myself, in Washington DC in 1983, when a reporter asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said, that Hitler was actually a good strong leader who unified Germany, it's just too bad that he did so much indiscriminate killing. All these caused me quite a shock at the time, and finally I decided to confront a question that had bothered me from childhood: how could intelligent, sophisticated Germans (and some of the leaders of his party and the SS were indeed sophisticated and intelligent) follow him? Some of them were reputed to be lovers of classical music, devoted husbands, doting fathers, fond of animals and loved to tend their rose gardens -- but had no problem going to work in the morning, work being the extermination of yet another transport of thousands of Jews. I asked one of my German "friends" to get me some Nazi literature about Hitler, that I was interested in learning more about how THEY viewed him. One of them got me a few magazines which were published on high-quality paper, with no ads (so a lot of money was involved). The magazines were all in German. I struggled through the articles, and was particularly struck by two of them: one about Hitler's love affairs, and another an account by his driver, who was the last person to see Hitler alive. The one about the love affairs was interesting: it turned out, that although he was partially impotent -- some of his aids were constantly on the lookout for any medical doctor who could provide him with a preparation to increase his potency -- once he had an affair with a woman, that woman was so enamored with him, that when he left her she committed suicide. This has happened a number of times. It even happened in the case of a British woman, who was in England when Churchill declared war, so she could not return to Germany and committed suicide from agony. Such was his charisma and power over people. But what was much more revealing to me was the account of his driver. As he was describing Hitler's last hours, he was speaking about the terrible loss and bereavement that he experienced -- and there was something heartbreaking about his devotion to Hitler. I'm serious: I completely identified with his intense emotions. I was only familiar with such powerful emotions in relationship to God or to one's Guru -- but here was a person who was relating to Hitler in this way, and was still lamenting his death so many years later, knowing all that he had done! I later on saw a BBC 6-hr documentary program on the rise of Nazism. They interviewed a person who worked with him closely at one point. And that person spoke about Hitler with the same passion that one speaks of one's Guru. He described his experience of interacting with Hitler -- there's no other way to describe it, except a spiritual experience -- and said, in this regard: "I saw this side of Hitler, Hitler's most beautiful side; and no one can take it away from me. That is the Hitler I know and cherish". Why am I saying all this? Because that was the first time I understood how Hitler could have done what he had done. People who came in contact with him had a spiritual experience, and you know how such a profound experience often makes you surrender your discriminating ability. And you can even do atrocities. It was also the first time I realized that the power of spiritual people to give experience is potentially dangerous. It made me realize, that had I been a non-Jewish German at the time of Hitler, I could have potentially joined to Nazi party -- if that was the transmission that came out of Hitler. My response to this was: This is interesting stuff. As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned,
