[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
right - I know of no one using OM by itself; so what's the controversey and why make an artificial disagreement?. Everybody knows this information (only the 137-th time this topic has been restarted). Must be some people new to FFL wondering about the OM. But Willytex, I know you can be counted on to keep the OM flame alive with one million or so restarts of this OM stuff. ... In some New Age meetings somebody might call for some ...'s; and as I recall Gorbachev once attended such a meeting. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > > > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > > > initiated... > > > > yifuxero: > > Looks like this phoney controversey has been ironed > > out... > > > Apparently not - there are still some points that need > to be figured out. We know that Mahesh Yogi and Guru > Dev did not advocate the meditation on AUM or using OM > as a replacement for the bija mantra given in initiation. > > According to the tradition of Advaita, founded by the > Shankaracharya, when the bija mantra is conceptualized, > the meditator will tend to remain on the conscious > thinking level. > > The idea is to transcend thought by using the bija > mantra as a thought-tool. The ideal bija mantra is one > that has no conceptual associations. > > While it is true than any sound can be interpreted as > a 'mantric' sound, a real bija mantra is given out to > a student by a guru in an initiation. So, a bija mantra > can be be anything the guru wants it to be. But, > by definition, the bija mantras are esoteric. > > Without the shaktipat, there is no real transmission, > and there's no way to check the student's progress. > > The esoteric bija mantra, given in diksha, when used > as an abstract mnemonic device, is the *ideal* tool > for transcending. > > That's why the Adi Shankaracharya adopted the tantric > bija mantras and the Sri Yantra as 'symbols' of the > Absolute. That's why Guru Dev gave out the bija mantra > of Sri Saraswati, instead of OM - because the esoteric > bija mantras had been found to be auspicious by the > masters. > > Read more: > > 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism' > By Lama Anagarika Govinda > Rider, 1960 > http://tinyurl.com/2co9lbt >
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
> > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > > initiated... > > yifuxero: > Looks like this phoney controversey has been ironed > out... > Apparently not - there are still some points that need to be figured out. We know that Mahesh Yogi and Guru Dev did not advocate the meditation on AUM or using OM as a replacement for the bija mantra given in initiation. According to the tradition of Advaita, founded by the Shankaracharya, when the bija mantra is conceptualized, the meditator will tend to remain on the conscious thinking level. The idea is to transcend thought by using the bija mantra as a thought-tool. The ideal bija mantra is one that has no conceptual associations. While it is true than any sound can be interpreted as a 'mantric' sound, a real bija mantra is given out to a student by a guru in an initiation. So, a bija mantra can be be anything the guru wants it to be. But, by definition, the bija mantras are esoteric. Without the shaktipat, there is no real transmission, and there's no way to check the student's progress. The esoteric bija mantra, given in diksha, when used as an abstract mnemonic device, is the *ideal* tool for transcending. That's why the Adi Shankaracharya adopted the tantric bija mantras and the Sri Yantra as 'symbols' of the Absolute. That's why Guru Dev gave out the bija mantra of Sri Saraswati, instead of OM - because the esoteric bija mantras had been found to be auspicious by the masters. Read more: 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism' By Lama Anagarika Govinda Rider, 1960 http://tinyurl.com/2co9lbt
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
> Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, > Shakya the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM... > Bhairitu: > I just asked my neighbor and he didn't know > that. > Your neighborhood store clerk is not going to be knowing very much about the secret tantric bija mantras. > So not everyone knows. > Most Indians didn't even realize until recently that the historical Buddha was born in India! 'The Search for the Buddha' The Men Who Discovered India's Lost Religion By Charles Allen Basic Books, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/2cukmg6 > Mantras are resonance patterns. > Maybe so. > Even that was clearly explained by MMY > The use of the bija mantras was explained based on the teaching of Swami Brahmananda Saraswati. We know that Guru Dev's teacher was the Swami Krishanand Saraswati of Sringeri Math. Guru Dev followed the tradition of the Sri Vidya cult, which was founded by the Adi Shankaracharya. It is incumbent on every Saraswati Sannyasin to meditate on the TM bija mantra of Saraswati every day. Adi Shankaracharya composed the Saundaryalahari, and included the Sri Vidya bija mantras, fifteen in number, therein. Then, the Adi Shankarachary installed a Sri Yantra on the mandir at Sringeri, with the Sri Yantra bija mantras inscribed upon it. > and we often spoke of that in the intro > lectures we gave (and you didn't). > Apparently you were sleeping during the intro lecture, because everyone knows that meditating on AUM was not endorsed by the Mahesh Yogi. There is no AUM in the Saunaraylahari and there is no AUM inscribed on the Sri Yantra. So, you are incorrect - apparently I know more about bija mantras than you or the Mahesh Yogi. > The sounds resonate and culture the nervous > system to improve its functioning. > Maybe so.
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
right, not by itself; but in India: a. prelude to the Vedic Gayatri which somebody tacked on as "Om Bhur Bhuvah Svah(then the 24 syllable part starting with TAT" ... The question is however, why rely solely on what the ancient Vedic Sages had to say. Karunamai is expert enough for me. I have her chanting tape on the Gayatri mantra. And I have Sogyal Rinpoches' chanting tape on the Vajra Guru mantra which starts Om Ah Hung ... Looks like this phoney controversey has been ironed out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > > > It is my understanding that MMY advised against > > > the use of AUM... > > > > > >Bhairitu: > > There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with > > AUM... > > > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. But, > there must be millions of people that meditate on the > TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri > Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, > one or two millionaires in India that meditate on > AUM? > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > initiated. > > The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read > about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric > at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. > > Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - > AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. > > Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya > the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha > believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do > anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I > guess he would have included them somewhere in the > 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Olson" wrote:
>
>
> It is my understanding that MMY advised against the use of AUM
Well, according to Monier-Williams, 'aum' (rhymes with 'how[m]'),
as opposed to 'om' (like German 'Ohm'), is the sacred syllable of the
*shuudras*:
1 aum ind. the sacred syllable of the S3u1dras (see 3. %{au}).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
WillyTex wrote: > >>> It is my understanding that MMY advised against >>> the use of AUM... >>> >>> Bhairitu: >>> >> There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with >> AUM... >> >> > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. What part of "use mantras" did you not understand? > But, > there must be millions of people that meditate on the > TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri > Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, > one or two millionaires in India that meditate on > AUM? > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > initiated. > In this context bija mantra means guru mantra. Not the same thing. > The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read > about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric > at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. Oh? Tell us Sri Willy, what is a "real" tantric guru? > > > Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - > AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. > That might come as a surprise to many yogis in India. > Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya > the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha > believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do > anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I > guess he would have included them somewhere in the > 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not? > I just asked my neighbor and he didn't know that. So not everyone knows. Mantras are resonance patterns. Even that was clearly explained by MMY and we often spoke of that in the intro lectures we gave (and you didn't). The sounds resonate and culture the nervous system to improve its functioning.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
thanks From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of do.rflex Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:28 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tom Olson" wrote: > > .There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those > who want to read further. How do I access this reference? > The following is from Guru Dev's 108 Discourses: - What actually happens to those who proclaim the greatness of using only "OMkara ka japa", our experience up until recently we are informing, listen; 2, 4, 10, 20 times constantly repeating OM then no particular effect there will be. But if 2, 4 thousand unceasing repetitions then in a short time [one's connection with] the worldly surrounding will become weak. Arsenic is a destroyer, but taking a little, then the effects will not be very rapid. If some excessive dose is taken then it actually kills. Those who use the method of "OMkara ka japa" alone, taking it to be the special form, find that their worldly discipline certainly weakens; working and regular meals go into decline; wife and son etc. become unhealthy and also die. Five, six years ago, we had gone to Lucknow for the occasion of Laksha Chandi Yagya. On that occasion one old woman came to us and 2, 4 people came along too. These people said that Mataji was a great devotee, all day long she would remain in prayer and worship. However, only very recently her two sons, who were in the prime of life, had died. To this we asked; `Were you practicing OMkara ka japa?' She answered to Maharaj! `The very same is our basis, all day long I did do japa.' We said that, `Achchaa (Okay), you have been casting japa for your samsara (life), not to quit now.' However, by that connection the thing becomes destroyed. Right here is the effect of "OMkara japa". This then is done somewhere without love and if love's work is being done then the meaning and the object of love will be annihilated by the influence of "OMkara ka japa". For this reason grihasthon (householders) are not authorised to do "OMkara ke japa" alone. Shastra with a view to grant good fortune does not give authority. If there were any benefit to be derived by grihasthon by using "OMkara japa" there would be no reason for the Shastra to prohibit. Mantras [sometimes] contain a mixture [of sounds including] OM that are given for auspicious purposes. Another thing is this that women are prohibited from practising japa with a "OMkara-yukta mantra" (a mantra conjoined with OM). Wherever at the beginning there is the purusha (male) mantra "OM" then instead women should apply the sound "shree".. Bhagwan Shankar (Lord Shiva) giving instruction to Parvati on japa explained that for women "OMkara-sahita mantra ka japa" (OM connected mantra) can be like poison and for happiness they should only do japa without OMkara. Due consideration should be given that Shankarji gave this information to his own wife. If OMkara is beneficial for a woman to do, why would he instruct his own wife against the practice? Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 73 of 108 translation - Paul Mason C 2005, 2009 http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Olson" wrote: > > .There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those > who want to read further. How do I access this reference? > The following is from Guru Dev's 108 Discourses: - What actually happens to those who proclaim the greatness of using only "OMkara ka japa", our experience up until recently we are informing, listen; 2, 4, 10, 20 times constantly repeating OM then no particular effect there will be. But if 2, 4 thousand unceasing repetitions then in a short time [one's connection with] the worldly surrounding will become weak. Arsenic is a destroyer, but taking a little, then the effects will not be very rapid. If some excessive dose is taken then it actually kills. Those who use the method of "OMkara ka japa" alone, taking it to be the special form, find that their worldly discipline certainly weakens; working and regular meals go into decline; wife and son etc. become unhealthy and also die. Five, six years ago, we had gone to Lucknow for the occasion of Laksha Chandi Yagya. On that occasion one old woman came to us and 2, 4 people came along too. These people said that Mataji was a great devotee, all day long she would remain in prayer and worship. However, only very recently her two sons, who were in the prime of life, had died. To this we asked; `Were you practicing OMkara ka japa?' She answered to Maharaj! `The very same is our basis, all day long I did do japa.' We said that, `Achchaa (Okay), you have been casting japa for your samsara (life), not to quit now.' However, by that connection the thing becomes destroyed. Right here is the effect of "OMkara japa". This then is done somewhere without love and if love's work is being done then the meaning and the object of love will be annihilated by the influence of "OMkara ka japa". For this reason grihasthon (householders) are not authorised to do "OMkara ke japa" alone. Shastra with a view to grant good fortune does not give authority. If there were any benefit to be derived by grihasthon by using "OMkara japa" there would be no reason for the Shastra to prohibit. Mantras [sometimes] contain a mixture [of sounds including] OM that are given for auspicious purposes. Another thing is this that women are prohibited from practising japa with a "OMkara-yukta mantra" (a mantra conjoined with OM). Wherever at the beginning there is the purusha (male) mantra "OM" then instead women should apply the sound "shree".. Bhagwan Shankar (Lord Shiva) giving instruction to Parvati on japa explained that for women "OMkara-sahita mantra ka japa" (OM connected mantra) can be like poison and for happiness they should only do japa without OMkara. Due consideration should be given that Shankarji gave this information to his own wife. If OMkara is beneficial for a woman to do, why would he instruct his own wife against the practice? Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 73 of 108 translation - Paul Mason © 2005, 2009 http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
Go to Paul Mason's site (www.paulmason.info). Under the Guru Dev section of the site he has many of Guru Dev's talks transcribed. I don't remember which talk it was, so you will have to go through a lot if text, but it is there somewhere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Olson" wrote: > > .There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those > who want to read further. How do I access this reference? > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of ra...@... > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 12:48 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM > > > > > > It was Guru Dev who taught not to use OM for householders. > Maharishi simply taught what Guru Dev taught him. There are references to > not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those who want to read further. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It is my understanding that MMY advised against > > > > the use of AUM... > > > > > > > >Bhairitu: > > > There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with > > > AUM... > > > > > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. But, > > there must be millions of people that meditate on the > > TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri > > Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, > > one or two millionaires in India that meditate on > > AUM? > > > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > > initiated. > > > > The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read > > about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric > > at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. > > > > Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - > > AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. > > > > Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya > > the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha > > believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do > > anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I > > guess he would have included them somewhere in the > > 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not? > > >
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
.There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those who want to read further. How do I access this reference? From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ra...@rocketmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 12:48 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: AUM It was Guru Dev who taught not to use OM for householders. Maharishi simply taught what Guru Dev taught him. There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those who want to read further. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > > > It is my understanding that MMY advised against > > > the use of AUM... > > > > > >Bhairitu: > > There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with > > AUM... > > > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. But, > there must be millions of people that meditate on the > TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri > Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, > one or two millionaires in India that meditate on > AUM? > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > initiated. > > The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read > about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric > at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. > > Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - > AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. > > Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya > the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha > believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do > anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I > guess he would have included them somewhere in the > 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
It was Guru Dev who taught not to use OM for householders. Maharishi simply taught what Guru Dev taught him. There are references to not using Om in one of Guru Dev's talks for those who want to read further. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > > > It is my understanding that MMY advised against > > > the use of AUM... > > > > > >Bhairitu: > > There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with > > AUM... > > > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. But, > there must be millions of people that meditate on the > TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri > Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, > one or two millionaires in India that meditate on > AUM? > > Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija > mantra given to them by their teacher when they get > initiated. > > The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read > about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric > at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. > > Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - > AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. > > Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya > the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha > believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do > anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I > guess he would have included them somewhere in the > 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: AUM
> > It is my understanding that MMY advised against > > the use of AUM... > > > >Bhairitu: > There are Indian millionaires who use mantras with > AUM... > Hardly anybody on the planet meditates on 'AUM'. But, there must be millions of people that meditate on the TM bija mantras - students of Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, and the Deepak Chopra. There's what, one or two millionaires in India that meditate on AUM? Most students of gurus in India meditate on the bija mantra given to them by their teacher when they get initiated. The nonsense syllable AUM is something you read about in yoga books or magazines. AUM is not esoteric at all! AUM is NOT given out by a real tantric guru. Tantric gurus always intitiate with bija mantras - AUM is for fakirs, not for adepts. Everyone knows that the historical Buddha, Shakya the Muni, did not teach the use of AUM - if Buddha believed that uttering nonsense syllables would do anything to relieve mankind from suffering, then I guess he would have included them somewhere in the 'Noble Eightfold Path', would he not?
