[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
> (note: KS differs from WillyTex's false Neo-Advaita; > which btw has nothing to do with MMY's version of > reality per SBAL. > So, you're saying that SBAL has nothing to do with Kashmere Shaivism and MMY had nothing to say about Kashmere Shaivism in SBAL. And that 'Willytex's' version is Kashmere Shaivism is 'Neo-Adwaita.' But, from what I've read, the Marshy taught all the current students of Kashmere Shaivism how to meditate and their guru, the Swami Laksmanjoo, was a great friend of the Marshy. Go figure. Read more: 'Centering: The Supreme Awakening' http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/centering.htm > The Neo-Advaitins and Advaita Vedantists say "the > world is an illusion" > Do they? Actually, they say that the world is not real, yet not unreal. It's real as long as you are in the dream, but it's an unreal world when you wake up to the transcendental cosciousness. That's not exactly like an illusion, which is unreal. > but Kashmir Saivism has the "story" right: > > The world is not an illusion but rather the > perception of duality is illusion; actually the > false perception of duality; i.e. thinking that > the rope is a snake). > The 'snake/rope' illusion story comes from the founder of Adwaita Vedanta tradition, Gaudapadacharya. Gaudapada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudapada > from Wiki: > Among the various Hindu philosophies, Kamir > aivism is a school of aivism categorized by > various scholars as monistic[1] idealism (absolute > idealism, theistic monism[2], realistic idealism > [3], transcendental physicalism or concrete monism > [4]). These descriptors denote a standpoint that > Cit - consciousness - is the one reality. > So, you're saying that 'consciousness', 'Cit', is the One reality. But that's what I've been saying for months! > Matter is not separated from consciousness, but > rather identical to it. There is no gap between > God and the world. The world is not an illusion > (as in Advaita Vedanta), rather the perception > of duality is the illusion. > Apparently there are some differences between Adwaita Vedanta and Kashmere Shaivism. Althought both are monistic idealism, the Kashmere version has adopted several dualistic tendencies. The KS scriptures explain 'maya', not as 'illusion', but as the Shiva-Shakti polarity. > Kashmir Shaivism arose during the eighth[5] or > ninth century CE.[6][7] in Kashmir and made > significant strides, both philosophical and > theological, until the end of the twelfth century > CE[8]. Kashmir Shaivism resembles Hindu tantra, > and both have as their key symbol the Shri Yantra. > >From what I've read, the Adi Shankaracharya went up to Badrika in the Himalayas and after reaching enlightenment, he placed a Shri Yantra inside the Badrika temple at Jyotispeeth. On the yantra were inscribed the TM bija mantras. The Adi then went to the river and found the Buddha statue and placed it in the Badrika temple. Apparently the statue was a Buddha idol. Some scholars think that the ancient Badrika temple was previously a Buddhist pilgrimage shrine. This makes sense because the Badrika temple is the temple dedicated to the Badri tree, which grows in the vicinity. The Badri tree is the symbol of the tree of enlightenment, the Bodhi Tree. The statue in the Badrika temple is made of black stone and the diety sits in the full lotus pose. Then the Adi established the Jyotirmath, where he composed the 'Anandalahari', 'Dakshinamurti', 'Saunadaryalahari' and wrote commentaries Brahma Sutras of Badarayana, commentaries on the the major Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita. After the Adi stayed as long as he wished, he went over to Kashmere and established the temple on Shankaracharya hill at the site of the Shalimar Gardens. He place a Shri Yantra in the temple and instructed all the desciples in Adwaita Vedanta. The Adi then went back to South India, to Karnataka and established the Sringeri temple, and placed a Shri Yantra in it as well. The Adi apparently placed a Shri Yantra at all the centers and seats of learning, except at Kanchi, which is a branch of the Sringeri matha. At Kanchipuram, the Adi made a nice jewelry set for the murti in the temple - a small pair of Shri Yantras in the form of earings. On the tiny earrings the Adi inscribed the TM bija mantras. This is according to the exponents of the Shankaracharya tradition. Apparently all the monistic Shankaracharyas worship the Shri Vidya whose symbol is the Shri Yantra. The Swami Brahmananda Saraswati used to have a really nice Shri Yantra, encrusted with rubies, according to Swami Rama of the Himalayas.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
> ...the world is not an illusion. > Peter wrote: > Damn! I've got to re-work my whole mood-making > thing now. > Is that what you've been telling your patients - that the world is an illusion? What else have you been telling them - that alien abductions are real?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
Vaj wrote: > According to Sw. Lakshman Joo, Mahesh literally > begged Sw. L. to initiate him into the Vijnana > Bhairava Tantra. So he did. > You haven't posted a shred of evidence that would prove this claim, Vaj. From what I've read, the Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. That's why the Laksmanjoo invited the Marshy and his Rishikesh TTC class of '67 to have their picture taken together. This is all related by class participants in 'Darshan: Three Times India' by Frank Papetin published by Hannemann Verlag in 1986. John Hughes, after completing the Rishikesh TTC, went to study with the Laksmanjoo in Srinagar. Hughes helped the Lakmanjoo with the publication of 'The Supreme Secret' the Laksman's translation of Abhinavagupta's 'Tantraloka'. 'Self Realization in Kashmere Shaivism' The oral teachings of Swami Laksmanjoo. By John Hughes SUNY, 1994 John Hughes' son, Viresh, was made the acharya of Kashmere Shaivism by the Laksmanjoo, by designating Viresh to be his succussor. The Marshy and the Laksmanjoo , John Hughes and Viresh Hughes are all great proponents of transcendental meditation. These are the facts. Statement by John Hughes: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/centering.htm The photograph was taken in Kashmere in 1968 by Frank Papentin, and published in the book "Darshan/Three Times India" (available at 21st Century Books in Fairfield, IA) shortly after the Rishikesh TTC. Among the participants was John Hughes, an initiator, who subsequently became a desciple of Swami Lakksmanjoo. You can read John's great book on Kashmere Tantracism, published in 2000 in hardback, and available at Border's and Barne's and Noble. 'Kashmir Shaivism: The Secret Supreme' by Swami Lakshmanjoo and John Hughes Authorhouse, 2000 http://tinyurl.com/6pss5m
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >From what I've read, the > Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo > the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. > > That's why the Laksmanjoo invited the Marshy and > his Rishikesh TTC class of '67 to have their > picture taken together. > > This is all related by class participants in > 'Darshan: Three Times India' by Frank Papetin > published by Hannemann Verlag in 1986. Laksmanjoo, like so many Saints where (almost) born into Freedom. This great Yogi, in glory surpassed by few indeed, was overjoyed to see that Maharishis techniques worked on His students to the extent that they started to understand what He himself was talking about. :-) In pure joy and exaltation He demanded Initiation from Maharishi. He did not need Initiation ofcourse. This friendship between Masters was cemented in an heartening way for onlookers, like us. To cherish. Few are such souls, few understand what Maharishi did in this world, particularily those that claim to have have been "co-ordinators, secretaries" in the TMO. If someone claims such a thing be careful, often, as seen here on FFL; they are lying. If in doubt; close your eyes and softly ask Laksmanjoo what is what; He will let you know.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Laksmanjoo got a little nutty in his old age. Says Rick, our one and only source of truth regarding all things "Spiritual". I think we will very gracefully drop everything perceived about the near future, the mental and physical health we have "seen" regarding this Rick Archer character. This "as you sough, so shall you reap" principle still works though. Much to the disdain of Rick Archer and his dog.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
> > You haven't posted a shred of evidence that would > > prove this claim, Vaj. From what I've read, the > > Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo > > the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. > > Vaj wrote: > More BS from Willy. > Kashmer Saivism seems to agree perfectly with many of the things Marshy proposed. According to Theos Bernard, in his classic textbook on Hindu Philosophy, says that Kashmer Saivism potulates a single ultimate reality with two aspects, "one transcendental and the other immanent." Marshy seems to agree with this. Kashmere Saivism teaches that conciousness alternates between two phases, rest and action. The phase of transcendental rest is called 'Pralaya' in Sanskrit. Marshy seems to agree with this. Kashmere Saivism contends that there is only one reality, but it has two aspects. Marshy seems to agree with this. The world of matter is only another form of conciousness. Marshy seems to agree with this. Work cited:: 'Philosophical Foundations of India' by Theos. Bernard Rider, 1945 Amazon Paperback http://tinyurl.com/692db9 Other titles of interest: 'Hatha Yoga' by Theos Bernard Weiser, 1970 'Penthouse of the Gods' A Pilgrimage into the Heart of Tibet and the Sacred City of Lhasa by Theos Bernard Charles Scribner's Sons, 1939 'A Simplified Grammar of the Literary Tibetan Language' by by Theos Bernard, M.A. Ph.D., LL.B. Tibetan Text Society, 1946
[FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
Vaj wrote: > Advaita Vedanta is foundationally different from > the Trika/Kashmir Shaivism. > Kashmere Saivism is an absolute idealism, just like Adwaita Vedanta. The main difference, according to Theos Bernard, is the intrepretation given to the term 'maya'. Swami Laksmanjoo and Swami Muktananda used to teach Adwaita Vedanta and Kashmere Saivism to their students. There's not much difference between the two traditions, which are both forms of monisism, that is, a non-dual metaphysical system called 'Adwaita' and a non-dual system called 'Trika'. Trika: In Sanskrit, the term 'trika' pertains to number, '3', the three, or trinity. There are three states of consciousness, waking, sleeping, and dreaming; there is a fourth state, a state of pure consciousness, a transcendental state called 'turiya'. Turiya in Sanskrit means 'fourth', used in the Adwaita Vedanta to indicate the fourth state of consciousness, explained in Mandukhya Upanishad: "In both deep sleep and transcendental consciousness there is no consciousness of objects. But this objective consciousness is present in an unmanifested 'seed' form in deep sleep while it is completely transcended in the turiya." Mandukya Upanishad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandukya_Upanishad Mandukya Upanishad: http://tinyurl.com/6zv5qz Some say that Kashmere Shaivism is the Northern version of the Adwaita Vedanta, having been taken there by the Adi Shankara. But in fact, Kashmere Shaivism derives from the Buddhist Vajrayana tradition. Kashmere was one of the seats of learning for the propagation of the 'consciousness only' school of Buddhism. The land of Kashmere and the Swat Valley were all Buddhist lands when Padmasambhava took Tantric Buddism to Tibet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Richard J. Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, you're saying that 'consciousness', > 'Cit', is > the One reality. But that's what I've been saying > for months! What the hell do you know, you're an illusion! Oh wait a second...damn...I'm an illusion too. Now what do we do?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 13, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: (note: KS differs from WillyTex's false Neo-Advaita; which btw has nothing to do with MMY's version of reality per SBAL. So, you're saying that SBAL has nothing to do with Kashmere Shaivism and MMY had nothing to say about Kashmere Shaivism in SBAL. And that 'Willytex's' version is Kashmere Shaivism is 'Neo-Adwaita.' But, from what I've read, the Marshy taught all the current students of Kashmere Shaivism how to meditate and their guru, the Swami Laksmanjoo, was a great friend of the Marshy. Go figure. Actually the real story is somewhat different. Swami Lakshman Joo was a guru of Mahesh's. According to Sw. Lakshman Joo, Mahesh literally begged Sw. L. to initiate him into the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra. So he did. True to his nature, MMY shortly thereafter turned around and made a videotape of it for his paying students. Other than that, and M's attempted regurgitation of the Shiva Sutras (also received from Swami Lakshman Joo) on some old courses, Mahesh really didn't teach Kashmir Shaivism, nor was a yogi in that traditon or qualified as a pundit. When things got slim pickin's, he would not hesitate to pimp others teachings in his own inimitable way: for fun and cash.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
Vaj, I get a feelin' that MMY could have saved a dozen babies from a burning building and discovered the cure to cancer and you'd still say...but,but,but.. ;-) --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:43 PM On Jul 13, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: (note: KS differs from WillyTex's false Neo-Advaita; which btw has nothing to do with MMY's version of reality per SBAL. So, you're saying that SBAL has nothing to do with Kashmere Shaivism and MMY had nothing to say about Kashmere Shaivism in SBAL. And that 'Willytex's' version is Kashmere Shaivism is 'Neo-Adwaita.' But, from what I've read, the Marshy taught all the current students of Kashmere Shaivism how to meditate and their guru, the Swami Laksmanjoo, was a great friend of the Marshy. Go figure. Actually the real story is somewhat different. Swami Lakshman Joo was a guru of Mahesh's. According to Sw. Lakshman Joo, Mahesh literally begged Sw. L. to initiate him into the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra. So he did. True to his nature, MMY shortly thereafter turned around and made a videotape of it for his paying students. Other than that, and M's attempted regurgitation of the Shiva Sutras (also received from Swami Lakshman Joo) on some old courses, Mahesh really didn't teach Kashmir Shaivism, nor was a yogi in that traditon or qualified as a pundit. When things got slim pickin's, he would not hesitate to pimp others teachings in his own inimitable way: for fun and cash.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 13, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Peter wrote: Vaj, I get a feelin' that MMY could have saved a dozen babies from a burning building and discovered the cure to cancer and you'd still say...but,but,but.. ;-) Only if it ended up being more "myth making", creating false histories in an attempt to wrongly color the real truth of the matter. But the fact is Pete, MMY never saved a dozen babies from burning buildings nor did he discover a cure for cancer. Actually quite the opposite, his insistent pronouncements on Ayurvedic medicine over and above Allopathic medicine most likely put many people to their early graves. I realize people like to romanticize their spiritual involvements, but blatant lies and myth-making ain't really that romantic to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 14, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: > Vaj wrote: >> According to Sw. Lakshman Joo, Mahesh literally >> begged Sw. L. to initiate him into the Vijnana >> Bhairava Tantra. So he did. >> > You haven't posted a shred of evidence that would > prove this claim, Vaj. From what I've read, the > Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo > the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. More BS from Willy. The evidence is from Lakshman Joo himself. It doesn't matter to me if you want to believe it or not. Mahesh was one of his disciples. What does matter to me is when you distort the tradition by attempting to connect the TMO to Kashmir Shaivism. Mahesh had many gurus, Swami Lakshman Joo was just one of them, that's all.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 14, 2008, at 5:27 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From what I've read, the Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. That's why the Laksmanjoo invited the Marshy and his Rishikesh TTC class of '67 to have their picture taken together. This is all related by class participants in 'Darshan: Three Times India' by Frank Papetin published by Hannemann Verlag in 1986. Laksmanjoo, like so many Saints where (almost) born into Freedom. This great Yogi, in glory surpassed by few indeed, was overjoyed to see that Maharishis techniques worked on His students to the extent that they started to understand what He himself was talking about. :-) Earth to NaBlosUs: I knew a good number of his students and none of them did TM. He was descended from the cult of Bhairava, not Lakshmi and Saraswati. In pure joy and exaltation He demanded Initiation from Maharishi. He did not need Initiation ofcourse. This friendship between Masters was cemented in an heartening way for onlookers, like us. To cherish. Ah yes, Let's blissfully rewrite history, that's the ticket. Few are such souls, few understand what Maharishi did in this world, particularily those that claim to have have been "co-ordinators, secretaries" in the TMO. If someone claims such a thing be careful, often, as seen here on FFL; they are lying. If in doubt; close your eyes and softly ask Laksmanjoo what is what; He will let you know. I almost thought you were overshadowed by the force for a minute there Nabby...
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:27 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion. >Laksmanjoo, like so many Saints where (almost) born into Freedom. This great Yogi, in glory surpassed by few indeed, was overjoyed to see that Maharishis techniques worked on His students to the extent that they started to understand what He himself was talking about. :-) In pure joy and exaltation He demanded Initiation from Maharishi. He did not need Initiation ofcourse. This friendship between Masters was cemented in an heartening way for onlookers, like us. To cherish. >Few are such souls, few understand what Maharishi did in this world, particularily those that claim to have have been "co-ordinators, secretaries" in the TMO. If someone claims such a thing be careful, often, as seen here on FFL; they are lying. >If in doubt; close your eyes and softly ask Laksmanjoo what is what; He will let you know. Laksmanjoo got a little nutty in his old age. He wore a heart pacemaker and was living with Elliot Abravanel out in Los Angeles. A friend of mine went to visit him and said his behavior was a bit strange. But he still enjoyed the visit.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 14, 2008, at 5:56 PM, Rick Archer wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:27 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion. >Laksmanjoo, like so many Saints where (almost) born into Freedom. This great Yogi, in glory surpassed by few indeed, was overjoyed to see that Maharishis techniques worked on His students to the extent that they started to understand what He himself was talking about. :-) In pure joy and exaltation He demanded Initiation from Maharishi. He did not need Initiation ofcourse. This friendship between Masters was cemented in an heartening way for onlookers, like us. To cherish. >Few are such souls, few understand what Maharishi did in this world, particularily those that claim to have have been "co-ordinators, secretaries" in the TMO. If someone claims such a thing be careful, often, as seen here on FFL; they are lying. >If in doubt; close your eyes and softly ask Laksmanjoo what is what; He will let you know. Laksmanjoo got a little nutty in his old age. He wore a heart pacemaker and was living with Elliot Abravanel out in Los Angeles. A friend of mine went to visit him and said his behavior was a bit strange. But he still enjoyed the visit. I have to wonder if that was because of his brain tumors. Lakshman Joo would get terrible migraines from them. It's what eventually killed him. When he died, the last remnants of Kashmir Shaivism died with him, and radical Islam took over Kashmir. To even worship a pagan God or Goddess other than Allah thereafter in any sort of public way, assured a visit from the death squad. And thus began the exodus of 350,00 Brahmin pundit families back to mother India...
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:07 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion. >Laksmanjoo got a little nutty in his old age. He wore a heart pacemaker and was living with Elliot Abravanel out in Los Angeles. A friend of mine went to visit him and said his behavior was a bit strange. But he still enjoyed the visit. >I have to wonder if that was because of his brain tumors. Lakshman Joo would get terrible migraines from them. It's what eventually killed him. I'm sure brain tumors could make one nutty. Migraines don't kill you. Was it confirmed that he died from brain tumors?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 14, 2008, at 6:27 PM, Rick Archer wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:07 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion. >Laksmanjoo got a little nutty in his old age. He wore a heart pacemaker and was living with Elliot Abravanel out in Los Angeles. A friend of mine went to visit him and said his behavior was a bit strange. But he still enjoyed the visit. >I have to wonder if that was because of his brain tumors. Lakshman Joo would get terrible migraines from them. It's what eventually killed him. I’m sure brain tumors could make one nutty. Migraines don’t kill you. Was it confirmed that he died from brain tumors? Yes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kashmir Savism - the world is not an illusion.
On Jul 14, 2008, at 9:19 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: You haven't posted a shred of evidence that would prove this claim, Vaj. From what I've read, the Marshy taught all the students of Swmai Laksmanjoo the TM technique, including the Laksmanjoo himself. Vaj wrote: More BS from Willy. Kashmer Saivism seems to agree perfectly with many of the things Marshy proposed. According to Theos Bernard, in his classic textbook on Hindu Philosophy, says that Kashmer Saivism potulates a single ultimate reality with two aspects, "one transcendental and the other immanent." Marshy seems to agree with this. Actually the Maharishi advocated a tantric approach to Advaita Vedanta, seen from the POV of Advaita Vedanta. Advaita Vedanta is foundationally different from the Trika/Kashmir Shaivism. They're so different, Swami Lakshman Joo devotes a whole chapter to it in one of his works.
