Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
Sounds to me like many of these lessons were learned from workingI learned many of these same lessons the very hard way through years in corporate america. And they hold true today. --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 8:44 PM The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: Excellent topic. Some mind-modeling I may have done with Maharishi and Krishnamurtii: 1. The power of costume. If you want to close a deal in the eastern hemisphere make sure your tie is well into three figures. Although my closet is now filled with expensive suits I never wear I learned from M K at a young age the power of appearance in a commercial negotiation and many other kinds of transactions. As an expat I was amazed how much final outcomes were impacted by appearance. I have no doubt, I would not have been able to take my first two wives hostage if I'd dressed the way I dress now. 2. Be humble in dealings with Arabs, Asians and Brits. I learned from MK to treat all transactions with these ethnic groups as a learning experience and if I started thinking I was getting the upper hand in a transaction I needed reconsider what I was smoking or drinking at the time. In a negotiation, not only do these groups not: leave anything on the tableâ€�, as often as not, if you’re not being humble, they don't bother to even leave the table which you would swear was there a minute ago. And not to forget when Maharishi obtained his degree, India was the British Raj and the theosophists bought K the best British education money could buy although some of the Dons at Oxford wondered out loud if he was retarded. 3. Function follows form. Contrary to everything I was taught as a child, I learned from MK that what I say is so much less important than how I say it. That the silver tongued devil always gets the worm no matter what time he gets out of bed. My theory is that it was when they first met the Brits that the Chinese started referring to Caucasians as Guai Lo (white devils). 4.A good story is much more important than the company you keep. I have no idea what I believe or don't believe about what Maharishi taught me---after 40 years its a work in progress. That said, I mind-modeled from MK's behaviour that a a good story is much more important than the company you keep. As an example, I would point out the fact that someone too the right of Attila the Hun (Maharishi) was able to convince someone to the left of Trotsky (John Lennon) to spent time with him in India near a river with a lot of bugs and terrible food based on a story about a place called The Absolute. Of course you could point out that with to attainment of a knighthood and billionaire status for Macca and Yoko Lennon's socialism was pretty soft centred to start with. 5. Most people do not want the burden of taking responsibility for themselves. I learned from MK that most people would prefer you to agree with them than burden them with the truth. Also that there are pots of money to be made offering people a system, or non system in the case of K, that allows them to avoid all the nasty bits of their existence. Things like fear, boredom, stupidity, failure, homeliness, betrayal, intolerance, and resentment (I think I'll stop this one here since I want to send this post today). 6. Money is the only meaningful metric for valuing a human being. When I met MK I was a committed hippy and by the time our association ended seven years later I was a Reaganaut who thought the only way to get to heaven was with a platinum AMEX, a gold Rolex and the best looking car ---or wife---in the garage. If food, clothing, shelter and the people you hang with are indicators---than everything about MK screamed money and commerce. I’m embarrassed to admit I was well into my forties before I realized that money has nothing to do with the rarity of an individual and irony of irony billionaires are a better indicator of the end of a civilization then its advancement. Anyone who has traveled knows there are no shortage of wealthy people in Mexico, India and the Philippines although there is a very visible shortage of the type of middle class that made this country what it is. 7. Extremism in the defence of consciousness is no vice! It was not until I was older that I realized thatnothing new under the sunâ€� also applied to MK hanging with elites and in M's case extreme right wing nut jobs. That it was no coincidenceÂ
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
Sure - look I'm myself am very dynamic, even pretty aggressive at work. But trust me I didn't have to ask Amma on how to behave at work. In fact never asked a personal question on behavior, morality, work - sure I did ask her when my marriage was falling apart. But she absolutely didn't entertain me at all and I'm so glad because it was completely alien to my nature. She just made me go within and find happiness in myself. She's awesome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: Sounds to me like many of these lessons were learned from workingI learned many of these same lessons the very hard way through years in corporate america.  And they hold true today. --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 8:44 PM  The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@ wrote: Excellent topic.àSome mind-modeling I may have done with Maharishi and Krishnamurtii: 1. The power of costume.àIf you want to close aàdeal in the easternàhemisphere make sure your tie is well into three figures. Although my closet is now filled with expensive suits I never wear I learnedàfrom M Kàat a young age the power of appearance in a commercial negotiation and many other kinds of transactions. As an expat I wasàamazedàhow much final outcomes were impacted byàappearance.àI have no doubt, I would not have beenàable to take my first two wivesàhostage if I'd dressed theàway I dress now.à2. Be humble in dealings with Arabs, Asians and Brits.àI learned from MK to treat all transactions withàthese ethnic groups as a learning experienceàand if I started thinking I was getting the upper hand in a transaction I needed reconsider what I wasàsmoking or drinking at the time.àIn a negotiation, notàonly do theseàgroups not: leave anything on the tableââ¬ï¿½,àas often as not,àif youââ¬â¢re not being humble, they don't bother to even leave the table which you would swear was thereàa minute ago. And not to forget when Maharishiàobtained his degree,àIndia was the British Raj andàthe theosophists bought K the bestàBritish education money could buy although some of the Dons at Oxford wondered out loud if he was retarded.à3. Function follows form. Contrary to everything I was taught as a child, I learned from MK that what I say is so much less important than how I say it. That the silver tongued devil always gets the worm no matter what time he gets out of bed. My theory is that it was when they first met the Brits that the Chinese startedàreferring to CaucasiansàasàGuai Lo (white devils). 4.A good storyàis much more important than the company you keep. I have no idea what I believe or don't believe about what Maharishi taught me---after 40 years its a work in progress. That said, I mind-modeled from MK's behaviour that a a good story is much more important than the company you keep. As an example, I would point out the fact that someone too the right of Attila the Hun (Maharishi) was able to convince someone to the left of Trotsky (John Lennon) to spent time with him in India near a river with a lot of bugs and terrible food based on a story about a place called The Absolute. Of course you could point out that with to attainment of a knighthood and billionaire status for Macca and Yoko Lennon's socialism was pretty soft centred to start with. 5. Most people do not want the burden of taking responsibility for themselves. I learned from MK that most people would prefer you to agreeàwith them than burden them with the truth. Also that there are pots of money to be made offering people a system, or non system in the case of K, that allows them to avoid all the nasty bits of their existence. Things like fear, boredom, stupidity, failure, homeliness, betrayal, intolerance, and resentment (I think I'll stop this one here since I want to sendàthis post today). 6. Money is the only meaningful metric for valuing a human being. When I met MK I was a committed hippy and by the time our association ended seven years later I was a Reaganaut who thought the only way to get to heaven was with a platinum AMEX,àa gold Rolex and the best looking car ---or wife---in the garage. If food,àclothing, shelter and the people youàhang with are indicators---than everything about MK screamed moneyàand commerce.àIââ¬â¢m embarrassed to admit I was well into my forties before I realized that money has nothing
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
All of these mind-modeling insights are great, Bob. But I shall limit myself to replying to only one. 3. Function follows form. Contrary to everything I was taught as a child, I learned from MK that what I say is so much less important than how I say it. That the silver tongued devil always gets the worm no matter what time he gets out of bed. My theory is that it was when they first met the Brits that the Chinese started referring to Caucasians as Guai Lo (white devils). While this is somewhat true -- the storytelling abilities of the bard being more important than the actual story -- the idealist in me has to believe that there is occasionally value in the quality of the story itself. It's like the difference between L.A. and New York. In L.A. people are easy, and will believe pretty much anything as long as the story is told well enough. Walk into a job interview and shine your potential employers on with a good story about how cool you are, and in most cases you've got the job. In New York, they'll sit there across the desk from you and chuckle at your story, but the minute you leave they'll be on the phone checking your resume. Same thing with...uh...scoring. In L.A., the silver- tongued devil stands a good chance of being able to apply that tongue to bedroom pursuits, just on the basis of being able to tell a good story. No one in L.A. has even an ounce of discrimination, so it works there. But in N.Y., telling a good story just doesn't cut the mustard. The lovely young woman you're hitting on has been on the Net and knows by the time you get back from the bathroom that the lovely penthouse apart- ment you've offered to show her is not yours, but borrowed from a friend who is at work, while you are unemployed and hitting on women such as her and using his story to enhance your own. [ Not to say that I have ever tried this ploy myself, just that I've over- heard it failing in New York bars. ] I guess that my point, if I have one, is that some are such suckers for a good storyteller that they skip the part about determining whether the story itself is any good. Do less and accomplish more. Do nothing and accomplish everything. Good story, if told by a master storyteller. But what -- after all -- can the story- teller trot out as actual accomplishments after having pursued such a path in life. Did he actually earn the lifestyle he is preaching, or was it paid for by people he told these stories to? A good story, in my opinion, holds up even after the storyteller is long forgotten. A bogus story fades as soon as the storyteller's charisma hits the door. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: Excellent topic. Some mind-modeling I may have done with Maharishi and Krishnamurtii: 1. The power of costume. If you want to close a deal in the eastern hemisphere make sure your tie is well into three figures. Although my closet is now filled with expensive suits I never wear I learned from M K at a young age the power of appearance in a commercial negotiation and many other kinds of transactions. As an expat I was amazed how much final outcomes were impacted by appearance. I have no doubt, I would not have been able to take my first two wives hostage if I'd dressed the way I dress now. 2. Be humble in dealings with Arabs, Asians and Brits. I learned from MK to treat all transactions with these ethnic groups as a learning experience and if I started thinking I was getting the upper hand in a transaction I needed reconsider what I was smoking or drinking at the time. In a negotiation, not only do these groups not: leave anything on the tableâ, as often as not, if youâre not being humble, they don't bother to even leave the table which you would swear was there a minute ago. And not to forget when Maharishi obtained his degree, India was the British Raj and the theosophists bought K the best British education money could buy although some of the Dons at Oxford wondered out loud if he was retarded. 3. Function follows form. Contrary to everything I was taught as a child, I learned from MK that what I say is so much less important than how I say it. That the silver tongued devil always gets the worm no matter what time he gets out of bed. My theory is that it was when they first met the Brits that the Chinese started referring to Caucasians as Guai Lo (white devils). 4.A good story is much more important than the company you keep. I have no idea what I believe or don't believe about what Maharishi taught me---after 40 years its a work in progress. That said, I mind-modeled from MK's behaviour that a a good story is much more important than the company you keep. As an example, I would point out the fact that someone too the right of Attila the Hun (Maharishi) was able to convince someone to the left of Trotsky (John Lennon) to spent time with him in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
I have no clue what he's saying. May be that inner should reflect an outer morality? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: ??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
* * Thomas appears to be speaking of Brahman, where the apparent separation of all opposites (Inner and Outer, Absolute and Relative, Purusha and Prakriti, etc.) is finally resolved into the utter perfection of That Alone IS -- where Wholeness predominates everywhere and everywhen, and the personality of the Guru (and everything else both divine and demonic) is unconditionally held in the heart as simply a perfect expression of Us, a wave of what IS. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: I have no clue what he's saying. May be that inner should reflect an outer morality? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: ??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
H... To me it is self evident. Let's try a different tack: what is turiya? The unifying basis of waking, dreaming and sleeping. What is unity? Where turiya is realized as the basis of waking, dreaming and sleeping at all possible levels of activity. What is the inner, what is he outer? What is the above? What is the below? you don't have to have a point to have a point, dig? --the Pointless Man --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: I have no clue what he's saying. May be that inner should reflect an outer morality? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: ??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
If that's what he means - perfect !!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: * * Thomas appears to be speaking of Brahman, where the apparent separation of all opposites (Inner and Outer, Absolute and Relative, Purusha and Prakriti, etc.) is finally resolved into the utter perfection of That Alone IS -- where Wholeness predominates everywhere and everywhen, and the personality of the Guru (and everything else both divine and demonic) is unconditionally held in the heart as simply a perfect expression of Us, a wave of what IS. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I have no clue what he's saying. May be that inner should reflect an outer morality? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: ??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
Sounds good :-), my original comments were in a completely different context. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: H... To me it is self evident. Let's try a different tack: what is turiya? The unifying basis of waking, dreaming and sleeping. What is unity? Where turiya is realized as the basis of waking, dreaming and sleeping at all possible levels of activity. What is the inner, what is he outer? What is the above? What is the below? you don't have to have a point to have a point, dig? --the Pointless Man --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I have no clue what he's saying. May be that inner should reflect an outer morality? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: ??? When you make the two become one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside... then you will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. -Gospel of Saint Thomas Sounds like separation to me (not). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind-Modeling
The basic principle of spirituality is to separate the outer from inner, there's nothing to be learned from the personality of a Guru. So clearly both of you failed here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: Excellent topic. Some mind-modeling I may have done with Maharishi and Krishnamurtii: 1. The power of costume. If you want to close a deal in the eastern hemisphere make sure your tie is well into three figures. Although my closet is now filled with expensive suits I never wear I learned from M K at a young age the power of appearance in a commercial negotiation and many other kinds of transactions. As an expat I was amazed how much final outcomes were impacted by appearance. I have no doubt, I would not have been able to take my first two wives hostage if I'd dressed the way I dress now. 2. Be humble in dealings with Arabs, Asians and Brits. I learned from MK to treat all transactions with these ethnic groups as a learning experience and if I started thinking I was getting the upper hand in a transaction I needed reconsider what I was smoking or drinking at the time. In a negotiation, not only do these groups not: leave anything on the tableâ, as often as not, if youâre not being humble, they don't bother to even leave the table which you would swear was there a minute ago. And not to forget when Maharishi obtained his degree, India was the British Raj and the theosophists bought K the best British education money could buy although some of the Dons at Oxford wondered out loud if he was retarded. 3. Function follows form. Contrary to everything I was taught as a child, I learned from MK that what I say is so much less important than how I say it. That the silver tongued devil always gets the worm no matter what time he gets out of bed. My theory is that it was when they first met the Brits that the Chinese started referring to Caucasians as Guai Lo (white devils). 4.A good story is much more important than the company you keep. I have no idea what I believe or don't believe about what Maharishi taught me---after 40 years its a work in progress. That said, I mind-modeled from MK's behaviour that a a good story is much more important than the company you keep. As an example, I would point out the fact that someone too the right of Attila the Hun (Maharishi) was able to convince someone to the left of Trotsky (John Lennon) to spent time with him in India near a river with a lot of bugs and terrible food based on a story about a place called The Absolute. Of course you could point out that with to attainment of a knighthood and billionaire status for Macca and Yoko Lennon's socialism was pretty soft centred to start with. 5. Most people do not want the burden of taking responsibility for themselves. I learned from MK that most people would prefer you to agree with them than burden them with the truth. Also that there are pots of money to be made offering people a system, or non system in the case of K, that allows them to avoid all the nasty bits of their existence. Things like fear, boredom, stupidity, failure, homeliness, betrayal, intolerance, and resentment (I think I'll stop this one here since I want to send this post today). 6. Money is the only meaningful metric for valuing a human being. When I met MK I was a committed hippy and by the time our association ended seven years later I was a Reaganaut who thought the only way to get to heaven was with a platinum AMEX, a gold Rolex and the best looking car ---or wife---in the garage. If food, clothing, shelter and the people you hang with are indicators---than everything about MK screamed money and commerce. Iâm embarrassed to admit I was well into my forties before I realized that money has nothing to do with the rarity of an individual and irony of irony billionaires are a better indicator of the end of a civilization then its advancement. Anyone who has traveled knows there are no shortage of wealthy people in Mexico, India and the Philippines although there is a very visible shortage of the type of middle class that made this country what it is. 7. Extremism in the defence of consciousness is no vice! It was not until I was older that I realized thatnothing new under the sunâ also applied to MK hanging with elites and in M's case extreme right wing nut jobs. That it was no coincidence that Hitler and many in the National Socialists (talk about CD in a party name) stole the swastika from the east, were vegetarians, believed in astrology and generally put a premium on most eastern spirituality. At one time or other MK helped my mind model itself on many of these fronts, including politics, -although I was a bit of a punter with the right wing stuff. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind Modeling
on 2/21/06 11:32 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Yet when Maharishi described his attunement to Guru Dev, he referred to his ability to anticipate his specific desires. Also, Maharishi always expressed his wish for his followers to be in tune with his thinking. Also, in the Gita commentary, Maharishi talks about the disciple putting aside his own ways of thinking and feeling, and conforming to those of the master. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind Modeling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 2/21/06 11:32 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Yet when Maharishi described his attunement to Guru Dev, he referred to his ability to anticipate his specific desires. Also, Maharishi always expressed his wish for his followers to be in tune with his thinking. Also, in the Gita commentary, Maharishi talks about the disciple putting aside his own ways of thinking and feeling, and conforming to those of the master. With regard to the first and third of these, I'd guess that the qualities-of-mind aspect is the *vehicle*, not the main event, of the process. The idea is to get the ego out of the way, neutralize it, so it doesn't interfere with attunement on the level of consciousness. With regard to the second, I'm not sure MMY was talking about personal guru-disciple relationships like what he had with Guru Dev, or that he thought of being in tune with his thinking as a means of development of consciousness per se. It seems to me for that to be the case, one would have to be in nearly constant personal contact with the master. I mean, any chief executive is going to want the people in his company to be in tune with his/her thinking. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
