[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > In a few of these experiences I had a literal > > > vision in that the present just went away, and > > > what I was seeing and experiencing felt like I'd > > > stepped into some kind of "viewer into the past." > > > I tried to write up one such experience in one > > > of the stories in Road Trip Mind, at: > > > http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm46.html > > > > Good story, amazing looking place too. I can see why you > > moved there! > > Where I lived in France was a couple of hours > away from that place, but it was a 12th-century > medieval village, so it had some power of its own. > > > I understand what you mean about power places now, some landscapes > > really resonate with me, like most of the West Country of England, > > but not just anywhere, stonehenge leaves me cold yet Avebury stone > > circle blows me away. But there's a place called Waylands Smithy it's > > an ancient burial mound just off the ridgeway, one of the oldest > > trackways in England,and going there for the first time I got a > > really profound sense of belonging, it was like I'd never been away > > and man it's so quiet, a really holy place you can sit in the > > entrance to the burial mound and time stands still whatever the > > weather, any time of year it's beautiful. > > > > The white horse at uffington gets me everytime too. > > > > http://www.berkshirehistory.com/archaeology/white_horse.html > > > > http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/majorsites/uffington.html > > They all look like really neat places. The Stonehenge > vs. Avebury phenomenon may be nothing more than "How > many people have tromped their feet through there?" > In my experience when dealing with supposed power > places, the fewer the better. Also, what tends to > happen over time that the supposed power places get > frequented by "the wrong kinds of people," the ones > who feel something of the power of the place and are > there to "suck it" so that they can achieve things > they want to achieve (as opposed to being there in > a quiet, meditative state of mind with no expectations). I can relate to that, I've often been disappointed with tourist spots crowds really take the magic away, I can't read minds but get the feeling that a lot of places are visited because that's what you do on holiday, tick all the boxes. The pyramids were the only busy spot like this I've seen that rose above the circus going on around them, but they are a bit of a statement. One real amazing place I found was the temple of Artemis in Turkey, it's one of the ancient wonders of the world, all that remains is one column and a bit of a wall yet the serenity there was breathtaking I didn't need to meditate I just drank the atmosphere, it definitely amplified a way I like to feel. I recommended to some friends for trip to Turkey they were planning and they thought it was rubbish, just another tourist site and there's nothing to see! I guess it's a personal thing. > This tends to make a place of power a little "lined > out" and diminishes its actual power. For example, any > of the so-called "vortexes" around Sedona, Arizona. > Twenty or thirty years ago they had some power, but > now...nada, in my opinion. Again, as compared to > some place like Chaco Canyon or Canyon de Chelly. > The former is so far away from everything that almost > no one ever goes there, and the latter has strict > rules that allow no one into the canyon on foot with- > out being accompanied by a Navajo guide. > > > The landscape looks like nothing special in photo's, it's just the > > atmosphere. There is a line in England and when I cross it heading > > west it changes me, I feel more alive. Never associated it with > > anything like reincarnation though, maybe because I don't usually > > think in that way about the world, can't explain it though. > > The Rama guy I studied with described power places as, > "You like to go there because they remind you of similar > places inside yourself." There is often a *stillness* > about them that, if you tap into it, makes it easier to > access a similar level of stillness in your meditations. I can't argue with that, I discovered this one the other day; http://www.imagesofdorset.org.uk/Dorset/009/intro.htm It's just up the road from me and very peaceful and far from the madding crowds, to go there is to escape the 21st century completely, maybe I'm just allergic to the modern world. > He also spoke of the need to practice mindfulness in a > power place, because they are "amplifiers." It's not > that they have a specific vibe of their own; they take > whatever vibe and state of attention you bring to them > and *amplify* it. Thus if you allow your state of > attention to drop into states of fear or
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > In a few of these experiences I had a literal > > vision in that the present just went away, and > > what I was seeing and experiencing felt like I'd > > stepped into some kind of "viewer into the past." > > I tried to write up one such experience in one > > of the stories in Road Trip Mind, at: > > http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm46.html > > Good story, amazing looking place too. I can see why you > moved there! Where I lived in France was a couple of hours away from that place, but it was a 12th-century medieval village, so it had some power of its own. > I understand what you mean about power places now, some landscapes > really resonate with me, like most of the West Country of England, > but not just anywhere, stonehenge leaves me cold yet Avebury stone > circle blows me away. But there's a place called Waylands Smithy it's > an ancient burial mound just off the ridgeway, one of the oldest > trackways in England,and going there for the first time I got a > really profound sense of belonging, it was like I'd never been away > and man it's so quiet, a really holy place you can sit in the > entrance to the burial mound and time stands still whatever the > weather, any time of year it's beautiful. > > The white horse at uffington gets me everytime too. > > http://www.berkshirehistory.com/archaeology/white_horse.html > > http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/majorsites/uffington.html They all look like really neat places. The Stonehenge vs. Avebury phenomenon may be nothing more than "How many people have tromped their feet through there?" In my experience when dealing with supposed power places, the fewer the better. Also, what tends to happen over time that the supposed power places get frequented by "the wrong kinds of people," the ones who feel something of the power of the place and are there to "suck it" so that they can achieve things they want to achieve (as opposed to being there in a quiet, meditative state of mind with no expectations). This tends to make a place of power a little "lined out" and diminishes its actual power. For example, any of the so-called "vortexes" around Sedona, Arizona. Twenty or thirty years ago they had some power, but now...nada, in my opinion. Again, as compared to some place like Chaco Canyon or Canyon de Chelly. The former is so far away from everything that almost no one ever goes there, and the latter has strict rules that allow no one into the canyon on foot with- out being accompanied by a Navajo guide. > The landscape looks like nothing special in photo's, it's just the > atmosphere. There is a line in England and when I cross it heading > west it changes me, I feel more alive. Never associated it with > anything like reincarnation though, maybe because I don't usually > think in that way about the world, can't explain it though. The Rama guy I studied with described power places as, "You like to go there because they remind you of similar places inside yourself." There is often a *stillness* about them that, if you tap into it, makes it easier to access a similar level of stillness in your meditations. He also spoke of the need to practice mindfulness in a power place, because they are "amplifiers." It's not that they have a specific vibe of their own; they take whatever vibe and state of attention you bring to them and *amplify* it. Thus if you allow your state of attention to drop into states of fear or anger, you might have a pretty miserable time at a powerful spot. Whereas if you practice mindfulness and keep your attention high and shiny, *that* is what gets amplified. > I never had the time-slip experience but have read about it before, > wish I could rememebr the book title! It was about people visiting > ancient monuments and walking into the iron age and being able to > describe the clothes and jewellery, farm implements etc, even though > they weren't experts. Fascinating stuff. All I can say it that it can happen just like that. Whether it is in any sense a "real" phenomenon or purely a subjective one, or even an illusory exper- ience I can't say, but it sure feels real at the time. > > When the present just "goes away" and all of your > > perceptions seem to be taking place *in* the past, > > like some kind of vision, I tend to take those > > experiences a little more seriously than just > > having a vague feeling of familiarity about a > > time or place. > > > > Another type of experience that I tend to give > > more credence to and consider more than moodmaking > > is when I go to some place of power (as I am wont > > to do) and not only feel that I've been there before, > > I can describe what's going to be around the next > > bend or in the next room before we get there to > > other people who visiting that place with me. I've > > done that with Quérib
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
I have only had a few experiences based in the past life category, as such 1). In Golden Domes I felt sometimes like I had lived in India with Buddha, and he had been a kind person. I aways saw a green bit of forest and a stream. But sometimes I feel it was probably something I was remembering from the movie Siddhartha. 2). A past life regressionist had me descend into some memories of where I thought I was in the West when it has dirt streets and I was a walking salesman. Did that when I was fourteen. I thought, "Boring last life." 3). As a cook I have stood over fire for countless hours and I have had deja vu bordering on the absurd. At one point it actually made me depressed. It started the first day I cooked and never stopped. I remember seeing light shine in a window in my face (in a restaurant where the kitchen looked out) and the heat and light was like timeless. And the smoke from meat. 4). Devi Bhavani from a Buddhist Master - can only be adamantine relationship, since he died and only gave darshan to a couple hundred. Very uncommon teaching of all-goodness. Is not able to break down into lives. Nor religion, nor time nor place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > wrote: >> > So can I ask you, or indeed anyone who has had a past-life > > experience, how real it was? Or maybe real isn't the main thing > > maybe it's how much sense it makes personally. I'm in the dark > > about it. > > I've only had a few that I would consider clear > experiences of past lives, as opposed to having > a general "feeling" about a certain era or place. > > Most of the former were a little "visionary" in > that there was something that happened that was > out of the ordinary that makes me think that I > wasn't just moodmaking or that my brain wasn't > just "free associating" based on things I know > from this life. > > In a few of these experiences I had a literal > vision in that the present just went away, and > what I was seeing and experiencing felt like I'd > stepped into some kind of "viewer into the past." > I tried to write up one such experience in one > of the stories in Road Trip Mind, at: > http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm46.html Good story, amazing looking place too. I can see why you moved there! I understand what you mean about power places now, some landscapes really resonate with me, like most of the West Country of England, but not just anywhere, stonehenge leaves me cold yet Avebury stone circle blows me away. But there's a place called Waylands Smithy it's an ancient burial mound just off the ridgeway, one of the oldest trackways in England,and going there for the first time I got a really profound sense of belonging, it was like I'd never been away and man it's so quiet, a really holy place you can sit in the entrance to the burial mound and time stands still whatever the weather, any time of year it's beautiful. The white horse at uffington gets me everytime too. http://www.berkshirehistory.com/archaeology/white_horse.html http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/majorsites/uffington.html The landscape looks like nothing special in photo's, it's just the atmosphere. There is a line in England and when I cross it heading west it changes me, I feel more alive. Never associated it with anything like reincarnation though, maybe because I don't usually think in that way about the world, can't explain it though. I never had the time-slip experience but have read about it before, wish I could rememebr the book title! It was about people visiting ancient monuments and walking into the iron age and being able to describe the clothes and jewellery, farm implements etc, even though they weren't experts. Fascinating stuff. > When the present just "goes away" and all of your > perceptions seem to be taking place *in* the past, > like some kind of vision, I tend to take those > experiences a little more seriously than just > having a vague feeling of familiarity about a > time or place. > > Another type of experience that I tend to give > more credence to and consider more than moodmaking > is when I go to some place of power (as I am wont > to do) and not only feel that I've been there before, > I can describe what's going to be around the next > bend or in the next room before we get there to > other people who visiting that place with me. I've > done that with Quéribus, the place I wrote about > in the link above, and at other Cathar-related > sites. I've had similar experiences in Canyon de > Chelly and Chaco Canyon and in the basements of > the Papal Palace in Avignon, where I was telling > my guide where all the secret passages were before > he could tell me about them. > > All in all, though, I just treat these things as > entertainment. I may *enjoy* having these rare > flashes, but I'm not convinced that any of them > have provided benefit to my sadhana in any way. > The visionary ones are more like seeing a clip > from a movie that you starred in long, long ago. > It's neat to see it, but you worked on that film > *so* long ago that you're no longer getting any > residual royalties from the Actor's Guild, so > what use is it, anyway? :-) I guess no actual use, but nice to keep copies of old movies just for the nostalgia.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And that is the only past-life experience I've ever had and it went > right back to the age of the dinosaurs, believe me I know what it's > like to be a nocturnal shrew in the late cretateous, I know it was > then because I saw an iguanadon. I think if two aliens hadn't > appeared on the scene and freaked me out even more I might be > inclined to think it really happened. Hey, maybe it did and I just > don't want to think of myself as that lucky. It was awesomely vivid > in the way that only other people who've had good acid experiences > will be able to relate to. But when I think two of my passions are > paleontology and science fiction the realist in me has to accept > that it was most likely entirely subjective, Occams razor and all > that. > > I never had any past-life experiences from meditation and this is > annoying as I know plenty who have and I hate to think I'm missing > out on a good time. Intellectually I can dismiss reincarnation > because it's a bit tricky to fit into the standard Darwinian model. > But as Maharishi said "Now you may not believe in reincarnation and > all that, but ask yourself this, what do I know?" To which I can > only reply, not enough. > > So can I ask you, or indeed anyone who has had a past-life > experience, how real it was? Or maybe real isn't the main thing > maybe it's how much sense it makes personally. I'm in the dark > about it. I've only had a few that I would consider clear experiences of past lives, as opposed to having a general "feeling" about a certain era or place. Most of the former were a little "visionary" in that there was something that happened that was out of the ordinary that makes me think that I wasn't just moodmaking or that my brain wasn't just "free associating" based on things I know from this life. In a few of these experiences I had a literal vision in that the present just went away, and what I was seeing and experiencing felt like I'd stepped into some kind of "viewer into the past." I tried to write up one such experience in one of the stories in Road Trip Mind, at: http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm46.html When the present just "goes away" and all of your perceptions seem to be taking place *in* the past, like some kind of vision, I tend to take those experiences a little more seriously than just having a vague feeling of familiarity about a time or place. Another type of experience that I tend to give more credence to and consider more than moodmaking is when I go to some place of power (as I am wont to do) and not only feel that I've been there before, I can describe what's going to be around the next bend or in the next room before we get there to other people who visiting that place with me. I've done that with Quéribus, the place I wrote about in the link above, and at other Cathar-related sites. I've had similar experiences in Canyon de Chelly and Chaco Canyon and in the basements of the Papal Palace in Avignon, where I was telling my guide where all the secret passages were before he could tell me about them. All in all, though, I just treat these things as entertainment. I may *enjoy* having these rare flashes, but I'm not convinced that any of them have provided benefit to my sadhana in any way. The visionary ones are more like seeing a clip from a movie that you starred in long, long ago. It's neat to see it, but you worked on that film *so* long ago that you're no longer getting any residual royalties from the Actor's Guild, so what use is it, anyway? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For some reason this exchange with matrixmonitor > popped into my mind again this morning, so I feel > like rapping on the same subject a little further: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "matrixmonitor" > > wrote: > > > > > > The people it (TM - or any other meditation technique) works > > > for are IMO those with some meditation experience in previous > > > lives. > > > > While I don't disagree with you at all (in fact, I > > think it's very true), that's a tough sell to those > > who don't believe in past lives. > > > > > This may include a strong background as a Buddhist, Hindu, or > > > Monk in the Christian Tradition. Or, perhaps a Kaballist. > > > > Or just someone who had experienced meditation and > > transcendence before, and thus found it easier to > > access and appreciate when they found a new "route" > > to it. I found the same thing when teaching other > > forms of meditation -- some folks "eased into it" > > and didn't experience much, and others experienced > > full-blown samadhi in their first session. What can > > really explain that except familiarity with meditation > > in the past? > > The spiritual teacher I worked with the longest > in this life had a very different approach to > teaching than Maharishi did, one that accepted > his students' past-life experience as a given, > and utilized it in the teaching process. > > He merely assumed that most of the people who > were attracted enough to him to become his > students in this life had been students of his > in previous lives, sometimes in many of those > lives. Those he didn't believe this about he > assumed had "paid their dues" with *thousands* > of past lives spent in the pursuit of enlight- > enment, and thus could "build upon" and "draw > upon" that past-life experience in this one. > > With this in mind, he taught a wide range of > spiritual methodologies and techniques. Over > the years we must have learned a hundred > *different* techniques of meditation. Some > were with eyes closed; some with them open; > still others to be performed in activity. Some > used a mantra or yantra or other object of > focus, some did not and were based on the idea > of "unfocusing" as much as possible. Some were > effort-based and suggested that we should try > to stop our thought, others were as effortless > as the TM technique. > > There was a similar parade of dogmas and doc- > trines. We studied Buddhism, Taoism, Zen, Hinduism, > Occultism, Native American Shamanism, and many > others. One night we'd be talking Zen and he'd > be the Zen Master, and the next we'd be talking > about sex and relationships and how they related > to spiritual progress and he'd be the supposedly- > enlightened Dr. Kinsey, and the next night we'd > be talking about success in the world of business > and how that related to enlightenment and he'd > be Dale Carnegie. It was a zoo. :-) > > My point in bringing it up is that there was a > sort of method in his madness. Namely (IMO) that > one "method" wasn't enough. > > He often said that he served up this smorgasbord > of teachings and techniques because although we > had all paid our dues, we had all paid *different* > dues. We may have all spent a lot of time in monas- > teries and ashrams, but they weren't the *same* > monasteries and ashrams, and they might not even > have been from the same spiritual tradition. > > Therefore we had all developed different predi- > lections, spiritually. He presented lots of differ- > ent paths and options to us because he didn't think > that there was such a thing as "One size fits all." > Instead he seemed to figure that if he threw out > enough breadcrumbs, sooner or later each of us would > find the breadcrumbs that tasted best *to us*, and > would follow them down the path that was best *for > us*. I think he was onto something. > > How this relates to what we were discussing before > is that TM and its effortless might have appealed > to those who had "paid their dues" doing similar > sadhana in past lives. If they were "used to" tech- > niques of effortlessness, then the student felt a > resonance with that style of meditation, and > "followed it" into very deep meditations. At the > same time, perhaps there were a lot of people who > also had "paid their dues" meditating in past lives > but had developed a predilection for techniques > that involved more effort and intent and will. > For them, TM didn't "resonate" quite as much, > so over time they gravitated to other more > effort-based techniques and traditions. > > This is all just speculation on my part; it's not > as if I know anything for sure. But it's what I > wound up thinking about this morning, so I thought > I'd pass it along. > > I basically agree *strongly* with your idea that > TM or *any* meditation technique will "work be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
Yes, I haven't found a theory to reconcile the derogatory remarks. "Foolish consistency" doesn't seem to cover it, since inconsistency didn't seem to bother him in other areas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ispiritkin" wrote: > > > > Thanks for posting this, Turq. > > > > After reading another thread about MMY's zany behavior, it occurred > > to me that maybe Mahesh himself anticipated that a householder would > > spend only a very small slice of his enlightenment path with the TMO > > (additional time with tm itself, but not with TMO). By pushing > > people constantly, he had to know he would push them out of the TMO > > envelope, and onto something else. > > There is a case to be made for this. My reason > for not believing it completely is how Maharishi > tended to *treat* the people he'd "pushed out of > the nest." If he had continued to refer to them > with respect, that would indicate one thing; to > refer to them in derogatory terms, as he often > did, seems to indicate another. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ispiritkin" wrote: > > > May I ask who was this smorgasbord-style teacher you had? > > He was a controversial spiritual teacher by the > name of Rama (Frederick Lenz). > Pretty much anything I had to say about the > dude I said in the book I wrote about him. It's > on the Web, at http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind > Cool! Thanks so much.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
> May I ask who was this smorgasbord-style teacher you had? -The other 'white meat' Rama.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ispiritkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for posting this, Turq. > > After reading another thread about MMY's zany behavior, it occurred > to me that maybe Mahesh himself anticipated that a householder would > spend only a very small slice of his enlightenment path with the TMO > (additional time with tm itself, but not with TMO). By pushing > people constantly, he had to know he would push them out of the TMO > envelope, and onto something else. There is a case to be made for this. My reason for not believing it completely is how Maharishi tended to *treat* the people he'd "pushed out of the nest." If he had continued to refer to them with respect, that would indicate one thing; to refer to them in derogatory terms, as he often did, seems to indicate another. > May I ask who was this smorgasbord-style teacher you had? He was a controversial spiritual teacher by the name of Rama (Frederick Lenz). The Wikipedia page on him gives an overview of both positive and negative. I try not to talk about him here because people get a little hinky when I do. Pretty much anything I had to say about the dude I said in the book I wrote about him. It's on the Web, at http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > Therefore we had all developed different predi- > > lections, spiritually. He presented lots of differ- > > ent paths and options to us because he didn't think > > that there was such a thing as "One size fits all." > > Instead he seemed to figure that if he threw out > > enough breadcrumbs, sooner or later each of us would > > find the breadcrumbs that tasted best *to us*, and > > would follow them down the path that was best *for > > us*. I think he was onto something. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Past life experience and how it relates to practice in this life
Thanks for posting this, Turq. After reading another thread about MMY's zany behavior, it occurred to me that maybe Mahesh himself anticipated that a householder would spend only a very small slice of his enlightenment path with the TMO (additional time with tm itself, but not with TMO). By pushing people constantly, he had to know he would push them out of the TMO envelope, and onto something else. May I ask who was this smorgasbord-style teacher you had? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Therefore we had all developed different predi- > lections, spiritually. He presented lots of differ- > ent paths and options to us because he didn't think > that there was such a thing as "One size fits all." > Instead he seemed to figure that if he threw out > enough breadcrumbs, sooner or later each of us would > find the breadcrumbs that tasted best *to us*, and > would follow them down the path that was best *for > us*. I think he was onto something. >
