[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> >  > If you've realized that spending *any* time
> > > interacting
> > > > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and
> > > always
> > > > have been, you can skip the whole process by
> > > hitting
> > > > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the
> > > 'From'
> > > > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to
> > > 
> > > > force their way into your attention field.
> > > 
> > > BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> > > you who are still reading the posts from this
> > > individual (or from others who are like him in
> > > terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> > > react when told that their victims have stopped
> > > reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> > > redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> > > people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
> > > about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> > > sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> > > people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> > > more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> > > the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> > > The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> > > can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> > > as far as I'm concerned...
> > 
> > I can't imagine what sort of relationships these
> > people must have in the "real world". They always must
> > be right; they always must have the last word. They
> > acknowledge no critique. Waste of an intellect.
> > 
> >
> 
> On the other hand, people who spend their time criticizing people 
> like that are obviously superior in every way.

It kind of reminds me of a Rorshoch test. Unless they know each other,
in person, for some years, most posters here know each other about as
well as an ink blot. Some blur of detail, but far from "knowing" them:
family background, education, profession, career, relationship status,
children, friends, community work /interactions, extra-professional
work (in associations, etc), volunteer work, ambitions, recreatrions,
favorite books, films, music, epistimologcal processes, spiritual
pursuits (other than TM), fitness level, diet, emotions and reactions
in various life situations,  etc. I suspect if the list met, there
would be so many surprises: "you are NOTHING like I imagined!".

So given that only a small tip of the iceberg of ones life is seen,
on-list, a sort of blurry set of details, sort of like an ink-blot,
its utterly fascinating and even astonishing to see people fill in
their imagined details of others' personalities, lives, relations,
motives and emotions . And the pretty emphatic confidence that they
are doing so accurately. 

But no one has more confidence than former (and current) True Believer
Spritiual Seekers. Its sort of like the addiction syndrome Tom referes
to.  Its my hypothesis, that most true beilevers (and most of us were
once -- if not still) have a challenged credibility meter. They are
moe open than others to the 'implausible". While it has an upside, it
can devolve into something pretty sad. Like in AA, I think all "Big
Dream" addicts, are always so: they are either active onesor
recovering ones. Always vulnerable to "the big dream" -- but if a12
step set of tools of rationality are used, the "disability"can be kept
in check. 

That some "ex" TBs believe are so confidentl that they can so
accurately fill in the details of a strangers life, known only by some
posts, is a great example of the Uber-confidence that the TB "great
Dreamer" addict has in their own POVs, opinions and "abilities" (such
as "intuition") -- which history has shown, has caused them
difficulty, and near disaster for some, in their lives previously.
 
While, it invokes compassion, it similtaneously can be another
'gut-ripping" laugh provoking observation, like other recently posted
ones -- that are growing on my "Observational Humor among Spiritual
Seekers". 

It could be a great book.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whilst I hold that meditation is a good practise for winding-down and 
> rediscovering oneself, I doubt the promises that it automatically 
> makes anyone more spiritual. For that one needs to connect and relate 
> to the suffering and joy of others.
> When did you last cry?
> 

Insomuch as there are physical structures in the brain that must be 
functioning properly for someone to feel and then act out various kinds 
of emotional responses such as sadness, happiness, compassion, love, 
empathy, etc., it isn't out-of-line to claim that a meditation 
technique which evokes integration of brain functioning would have a 
holistic effect on emotional/spiritual growth. That's not to say that 
this is the fastest way to address any specific problem or lack, just 
that ALL such problems/lacks would *eventually* be addressed by 
practiocing said technique (at least in people who already have 
reasonably normal brain structures in the first place).







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > > > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > > > discussion. 
> > > 
> > > If you've realized that spending *any* time
> > interacting
> > > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and
> > always
> > > have been, you can skip the whole process by
> > hitting
> > > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the
> > 'From'
> > > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to
> > 
> > > force their way into your attention field.
> > 
> > BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> > you who are still reading the posts from this
> > individual (or from others who are like him in
> > terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> > react when told that their victims have stopped
> > reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> > redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> > people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
> > about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> > sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> > people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> > more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> > the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> > The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> > can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> > as far as I'm concerned...
> 
> I can't imagine what sort of relationships these
> people must have in the "real world". They always must
> be right; they always must have the last word. They
> acknowledge no critique. Waste of an intellect.
> 
>

On the other hand, people who spend their time criticizing people 
like that are obviously superior in every way.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > > discussion. 
> > 
> > If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
> > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
> > have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
> > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
> > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
> > force their way into your attention field.
> 
> BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> you who are still reading the posts from this
> individual (or from others who are like him in
> terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> react when told that their victims have stopped
> reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
> about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> as far as I'm concerned...
>

Compassionate Buddhism at its finest...






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Peter]

--- lurkernomore20002000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>  
> > 
> > If you've realized that spending *any* time
> interacting
> > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and
> always
> > have been, you can skip the whole process by
> hitting
> > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the
> 'From'
> > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to
> 
> > force their way into your attention field.
> > 
> > Really cuts down on the time spent catching up on
> FFL, too.
> 
> Am there.  Do that.
> 
> lurk>

Me to. Added to the blocked list. I'm suckered in way
too easily.


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
 
> 
> If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
> with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
> have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
> 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
> field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
> force their way into your attention field.
> 
> Really cuts down on the time spent catching up on FFL, too.

Am there.  Do that.

lurk>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > > discussion. 
> > 
> > If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
> > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
> > have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
> > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
> > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
> > force their way into your attention field.
> 
> BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> you who are still reading the posts from this
> individual (or from others who are like him in
> terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> react when told that their victims have stopped
> reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> people who are ignoring them.

And if you've been ignoring them and not reading
their posts, you know this exactly how?

Past history indicates that Barry does not exactly
practice what he preaches here.  The pattern on
alt.m.t has been that he announces he is no longer
going to read the posts of an individual with whom
he's been sparring (often me, but others as well);
hopefully predicts, as he does above, that they will
freak out and redouble their efforts etc.; and then
when they fail to fulfill the prediction, in a few
days he's back to attacking *them*.








  The game is *not*
> about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> as far as I'm concerned...
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Whilst I hold that meditation is a good practise for winding-down and 
rediscovering oneself, I doubt the promises that it automatically 
makes anyone more spiritual. For that one needs to connect and relate 
to the suffering and joy of others.
When did you last cry?







--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > > discussion. 
> > 
> > If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
> > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
> > have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
> > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
> > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
> > force their way into your attention field.
> 
> BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> you who are still reading the posts from this
> individual (or from others who are like him in
> terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> react when told that their victims have stopped
> reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
> about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> as far as I'm concerned...
>







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Peter]

--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > > discussion. 
> > 
> > If you've realized that spending *any* time
> interacting
> > with a certain person or persons is fruitless and
> always
> > have been, you can skip the whole process by
> hitting
> > 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the
> 'From'
> > field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to
> 
> > force their way into your attention field.
> 
> BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
> you who are still reading the posts from this
> individual (or from others who are like him in
> terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
> react when told that their victims have stopped
> reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
> redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
> people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
> about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
> sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
> people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
> more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
> the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
> The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
> can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
> as far as I'm concerned...

I can't imagine what sort of relationships these
people must have in the "real world". They always must
be right; they always must have the last word. They
acknowledge no critique. Waste of an intellect.


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> > Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> > discussion. 
> 
> If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
> with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
> have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
> 'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
> field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
> force their way into your attention field.

BTW, wanna see something interesting?  Those of 
you who are still reading the posts from this
individual (or from others who are like him in
terms of being Attention Suckers), watch how they
react when told that their victims have stopped
reading their posts.  They usually freak out and
redouble their efforts to insult and attack the
people who are ignoring them.  The game is *not*
about the claimed subject -- the game, for these
sick fucks, is about capturing attention, making
people focus on them.  The more people who do, the
more they feel almost alive; the less people do,
the more they feel panicky and alone.  Well, duh.
The latter is because they really ARE alone, and
can continue to be for the rest of their lives,
as far as I'm concerned...








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
> Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
> discussion. 

If you've realized that spending *any* time interacting
with a certain person or persons is fruitless and always
have been, you can skip the whole process by hitting
'Next" the momemnt you see their name in the 'From'
field. No muss, no fuss, no starved egos trying to 
force their way into your attention field.

Really cuts down on the time spent catching up on FFL, too. 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[TurquoiseB]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the 
> chicken house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but 
> sarcasm and our friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it 
> is a great exercise in rationalization and creative thinking. I 
> would like to ask those who have been on the recieving end to 
> speak up. 

Rage and a poorly-disguised compulsion to suck
attention.  I won't ever bother to even read
anything he writes in the future, much less
reply to it.  Life's too short to deal with
someone who is so starved for attention that
he'll accept negative attention as a poor
substitute for being liked or respected.  Sad.
Reminds me of Willytex.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> On Dec 18, 2005, at 12:40 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:
> 
> >  When 'they' want to attempt the ultimate put down: "sexually
> >  repressed, Republican"
> 
> You mean there's a difference? :)
> 
> Sal
>
Just another way of clouding or avoiding discussion of any issue I guess.

JohnY





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Peter]

Dear Akasha/Anon/Braaahmaan,
Hey man, I'm withdrawing from our head-butting
discussion. We've done this dance several times before
and we always end-up in the same place. There must be
somehting of value in this for us! So, I love your
serious posts. You've got a great intellect and great
insights, but your "satire" is something I don't
enjoy. i'll talk to you later
-Peter  

--- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > It would appear IMHO that we have a person on
> this list who has
> > > defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the
> recieving end feel and
> > > know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might
> even call it rage.
> > > Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the
> chickens in the 
> > chicken
> > > house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing
> but sarcasm
> 
> Well, maybe you could define what your views of
> satrire and sarcasm
> are Tom. I have done so. And my posts fall into the
> satire camp per my
> study of saire. Maybe you simple view satire
> differently. A semantic
> difference perhaps. Maybe we studied in different
> english departments. 
> 
> Share your views. Do you favor Horatian over
> Juvenalian satire? High
> burlesque over low burlesque? Who are your favorite
> satirists for the
> 18th, 19th and 20 the centuries. You favorite
> satires on TV?
> 
> I would like to ask those
> > > who have been on the recieving end to speak up. 
> 
> Well, I think that is limited to you and Barry. He
> said he didn't want
> to pile on an egopissant. I am not if that is like a
> croissant.
> Anyway, he is wise tring not to pile on such. 
> 
> > My perception of the Fox's postings who concludes
> that all is 
> > satire, is so full of bullshit, I must hold my
> nose to read it. 
> 
> The world is as we are, right tom. 
> 
> > We are what we find his comments deeply
> antagonistic and reflecting
> a great deal of fear. 
> 
> The world is as we are.
> 
> You seem to be seeing rage and fear a lot these
> days. Things going ok?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

> > It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> > defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> > know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> > Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the 
> chicken
> > house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm

Well, maybe you could define what your views of satrire and sarcasm
are Tom. I have done so. And my posts fall into the satire camp per my
study of saire. Maybe you simple view satire differently. A semantic
difference perhaps. Maybe we studied in different english departments. 

Share your views. Do you favor Horatian over Juvenalian satire? High
burlesque over low burlesque? Who are your favorite satirists for the
18th, 19th and 20 the centuries. You favorite satires on TV?

I would like to ask those
> > who have been on the recieving end to speak up. 

Well, I think that is limited to you and Barry. He said he didn't want
to pile on an egopissant. I am not if that is like a croissant.
Anyway, he is wise tring not to pile on such. 

> My perception of the Fox's postings who concludes that all is 
> satire, is so full of bullshit, I must hold my nose to read it. 

The world is as we are, right tom. 

> We are what we find his comments deeply antagonistic and reflecting
a great deal of fear. 

The world is as we are.

You seem to be seeing rage and fear a lot these days. Things going ok?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

Actually, I found Unc's campfire post amusing (in a good way) and
insightful, well--- entertaining at least -- a late night rift -- him
posing as if someone like "curley" from those billy crystal movies --
a tough weathered, few words, word and grip is lke iron, type cowboy. 

Saying "we all have our stories to tell. Some of them is simply spun
yarns, fiction, but with some good moral to it. Some are what we have
found out on the deep trails. If you don't like the stories, ride on
hombre. We here don't care much what strangers think none-way."

It just seemed to me he got a bit carried away. And then in his next
several posts, aggessively and repeatedly broke all his campfire rules
of the trail, of the campfire brotherhood. Which made me laugh hard.
Not at him, but the irony. And part of my laughter was due to not
being totally sure if he was even conscious of his contradictions. Or
if it was a conscious choice, an exercise in aghori breaking of
boundaries as if he were saying, "If you are so stupid as to have
believed what I just told you, that campfie shit, then you do have
shit for brains. wake up!"

Both options were funny. Switching rapidly beween such views was even
funnier.

My response to his rift was on being new new young green gunslinger
sitting at the campfire for the first time. Cautiously, a bit
respectfully, a bit smirkingly, a bit increduously, listening to the
old drunk cowboy go on and on about how his generation, his hombre
compatriots really had it down. And then having a wry smile as the old
cowpoke went out into town and broke every rule he so earnstly had
just set down.

So from that angle, in that role, I teased the old cowpoke a bit in my
post. Quite gently given the huge chasm between his words and actions.

I found it amusing.It made me laugh. Some may have laughed to. Some,
like Jim, who did not see the connection to Barry's campfire rift --
were clueless. And in knee-jerk fachion, called upon old biased
"lenes" to see me beating up ferosiously on Barry. When indeed, I was
paying a bit of homage to the old cow fart.   

Hard to have missed the link to Barry's campfire rift, my couner rift
was full of references to the campfire, campfire creed, etc. But thats
the general problem on this list. People don't get the fact that some
posters actually make references to past posts. If you don't get the
references, you don't understand what is being satirized. Yet the
references - for the most part -- are pretty in your face. Spairg has
some subtle ones sometimes that make you laugh a bit later, when it
clicks in. But mostly, they are pretty obvious. If your mind is a bit
playful and open to a bit of irony. 
 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > > Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this 
> > > exchange:
> > > 
> > > And you can't see that the post he was responding
> > > to was at least as bullying?  And completely lacked
> > > the overlay of humor, was just plain belittling and
> > > nastily patronizing?
> > 
> > I didn't see that. My take on TurquoiseB's posts during that 
> > exchange were that they were right on, as I expressed at the time.
> 
> It's not the content, it's the tone.  Plus, as I said,
> the hypocrisy.  That was what braaahman was primarily
> picking up on.



> > On the other hand, I did find a posting by T-B to you recently to 
> be 
> > really insulting, and mentioned it at the time. But in this case, 
> no.
> >  
> > > And was grossly hypocritical to boot?
> > > 
> > > Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  You
> > > picked a bad example, Jim.  He was right on this one.
> > > 
> > > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > > Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> > > > > justify your belief in something? Or science?
> > > > 
> > > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > > Ditto.
> > > > 
> > > > And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in 
> your
> > > > ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you 
> > want,
> > > > but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
> > > > partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will 
> > give a
> > > > flying fuck about.
> > > > 
> > > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > > Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?
> > > > 
> > > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > > I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find 
> > out?
> > > > Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.
> > > > 
> > > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > > That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> > > > > their example.
> > > > 
> > > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > > But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just 
> talking 
> > to
> > > > yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow 
> > > right?
> > > > Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And 
> if 
> > you
> > > > do that,there 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this 
> > exchange:
> > 
> > And you can't see that the post he was responding
> > to was at least as bullying?  And completely lacked
> > the overlay of humor, was just plain belittling and
> > nastily patronizing?
> 
> I didn't see that. My take on TurquoiseB's posts during that 
> exchange were that they were right on, as I expressed at the time.

It's not the content, it's the tone.  Plus, as I said,
the hypocrisy.  That was what braaahman was primarily
picking up on.



 
> On the other hand, I did find a posting by T-B to you recently to 
be 
> really insulting, and mentioned it at the time. But in this case, 
no.
>  
> > And was grossly hypocritical to boot?
> > 
> > Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  You
> > picked a bad example, Jim.  He was right on this one.
> > 
> > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> > > > justify your belief in something? Or science?
> > > 
> > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > Ditto.
> > > 
> > > And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in 
your
> > > ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you 
> want,
> > > but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
> > > partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will 
> give a
> > > flying fuck about.
> > > 
> > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?
> > > 
> > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find 
> out?
> > > Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.
> > > 
> > > TurquoiseB:
> > > > That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> > > > their example.
> > > 
> > > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > > But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just 
talking 
> to
> > > yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow 
> > right?
> > > Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And 
if 
> you
> > > do that,there will be SHIT to pay at the old coral tomorrow, 
Dab 
> > > gumm IT!
> >
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Sal Sunshine]

On Dec 18, 2005, at 12:40 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:

 When 'they' want to attempt the ultimate put down: "sexually
 repressed, Republican"

You mean there's a difference? :)

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this 
> exchange:
> 
> And you can't see that the post he was responding
> to was at least as bullying?  And completely lacked
> the overlay of humor, was just plain belittling and
> nastily patronizing?

I didn't see that. My take on TurquoiseB's posts during that 
exchange were that they were right on, as I expressed at the time. 
On the other hand, I did find a posting by T-B to you recently to be 
really insulting, and mentioned it at the time. But in this case, no.
 
> And was grossly hypocritical to boot?
> 
> Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  You
> picked a bad example, Jim.  He was right on this one.
> 
> > TurquoiseB:
> > > Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> > > justify your belief in something? Or science?
> > 
> > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > Ditto.
> > 
> > And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in your
> > ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you 
want,
> > but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
> > partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will 
give a
> > flying fuck about.
> > 
> > TurquoiseB:
> > > Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?
> > 
> > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find 
out?
> > Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.
> > 
> > TurquoiseB:
> > > That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> > > their example.
> > 
> > Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> > But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just talking 
to
> > yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow 
> right?
> > Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And if 
you
> > do that,there will be SHIT to pay at the old coral tomorrow, Dab 
> > gumm IT!
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this 
exchange:

And you can't see that the post he was responding
to was at least as bullying?  And completely lacked
the overlay of humor, was just plain belittling and
nastily patronizing?

And was grossly hypocritical to boot?

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  You
picked a bad example, Jim.  He was right on this one.

> TurquoiseB:
> > Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> > justify your belief in something? Or science?
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> Ditto.
> 
> And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in your
> ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you want,
> but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
> partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will give a
> flying fuck about.
> 
> TurquoiseB:
> > Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find out?
> Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.
> 
> TurquoiseB:
> > That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> > their example.
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just talking to
> yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow 
right?
> Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And if you
> do that,there will be SHIT to pay at the old coral tomorrow, Dab 
> gumm IT!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I also had quite a lengthy exchange with this 'genius' where much
of what I said was scrutinized and insulted, to the point where I will 
not engage him anymore. 


And yet of what I read of that exchange, you never provided a single
non-diversionary or dogmatic answer to the one singe quesion that was
asked (from various angles): "What support do you have for your
statement that al religious and spiritual practices end up in the same
place?" Particulary since a lot of current scholarship contradicts
this view.  

Perhaps yuo don't feel comfortable engaging with whoever because yuo
are uncomfortable being called to support assertions that you can't
support -- taht are simply dogmatic echos in your mind.

I followed that exchange with great interest. What was facinating is
your great exemplfication of the dogmatic mind. it can't see outside
the walls of the dogma. Like a house of mirrors -- it looks expansive,
but everything reflects back to the dogma.Its a house of cards in the
ari -- to mix analogies.


> > 
> > Fortunately I was exposed to this intellectual doubletalk for years 
> > earlier in my life, 

And could it be that you are confusing some trauma of the past with
this exchange. Could it be the "confusion"may be similar but the
actual structure of the discussion quite different.

In reading the fascinating exchange several times, the only double
talk, if you want to call it that, I wouldn't, was your constant
reverting back to dogma to explain dogma.Sort of a self-referral of dogma.

> > and eventually was able to see through it for 
> > what it was; a desperate attempt of such a person to avoid facing 
> > what they fear is a volcano of suppressed rage within them, 
> > compensated instead by a sharp intellect that works overtime on 
> > equivocating everything. 

Too bad people can't take Dr. Pete's sage advice to heart (includng Dr
Pete, of ALL people): you can dissect and deconsruct and begin to
understand your own experiences and motivaions, but you can NEVER do
that for another. 

You have provided a detailed structural analysis of this person's
motivations without knowing the first thing about them. I hope we can
all agree that this is sheer folly.


> > Oddly, the greatest enemy of such a person is their distorted inner 
> > belief that they are in fact smarter than the rest of us. 
> > Pathetically, they are just outsmarting themselves.

Some might see this as classic projection. Hard to say without knowing
you(see above.) But you might ponder that and see if the shoe fits.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

And you clearly read Unc's posts that proceeded it? 

One cannot begin to understnd satire if they do not understand the
references. If you had not carefuly read Barry's campfire and related
posts, sure, the Braaahmaan post might sound a bit raw. 

Just as Peter apparently had not read Unc's campfire rifts and stories
and thus could not help but feel insulted by references to "smores
around the campfie in the backyard near mom."

Thats just my point in the metaphor of "tom calling up his friends
saying I got this guy here who is dry as a bone yet claims he is all
wet. Don't you agree he is a fool." Of course you do, not having seen
that the guy is dripping wet. 

Your post (as was peters) a great classic example partial information
and way-off-base jumped-to-responses forthcoming from such. Can I cite
it in my book on cognitive quirks?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> > defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> > know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> > Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the 
> chicken
> > house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm and 
> our
> > friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it is a great 
> exercise
> > in rationalization and creative thinking. I would like to ask those
> > who have been on the recieving end to speak up. Even if it wasn't
> > aimed at you your comments would be useful. We might even see if 
> there
> > might even be some evidence supporting the perception of sarcasm 
> and
> > rage. You may vote by responding yes or no. If being the brunt of
> > future attacks does not motivate you to want to post publicly you
> > might consider emailing our moderator privately for a scientific
> > tally. In search of opinions from anyone other than the Fox. Tom T
> >
> 
> My perception of the Fox's postings who concludes that all is 
> satire, is so full of bullshit, I must hold my nose to read it. I 
> find his comments deeply antagonistic and reflecting a great deal of 
> fear. 
> 
> Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this exchange:
> 
> TurquoiseB:
> > Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> > justify your belief in something? Or science?
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> Ditto.
> 
> And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in your
> ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you want,
> but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
> partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will give a
> flying fuck about.
> 
> TurquoiseB:
> > Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find out?
> Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.
> 
> TurquoiseB:
> > That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> > their example.
> 
> Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
> But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just talking to
> yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow right?
> Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And if you
> do that,there will be SHIT to pay at the old coral tomorrow, Dab 
> gumm IT!
> 
> =
> I also had quite a lengthy exchange with this 'genius' where much of 
> what I said was scrutinized and insulted, to the point where I will 
> not engage him anymore. 
> 
> Fortunately I was exposed to this intellectual doubletalk for years 
> earlier in my life, and eventually was able to see through it for 
> what it was; a desperate attempt of such a person to avoid facing 
> what they fear is a volcano of suppressed rage within them, 
> compensated instead by a sharp intellect that works overtime on 
> equivocating everything. 
> 
> Oddly, the greatest enemy of such a person is their distorted inner 
> belief that they are in fact smarter than the rest of us. 
> Pathetically, they are just outsmarting themselves.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[jim_flanegin]

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the 
chicken
> house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm and 
our
> friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it is a great 
exercise
> in rationalization and creative thinking. I would like to ask those
> who have been on the recieving end to speak up. Even if it wasn't
> aimed at you your comments would be useful. We might even see if 
there
> might even be some evidence supporting the perception of sarcasm 
and
> rage. You may vote by responding yes or no. If being the brunt of
> future attacks does not motivate you to want to post publicly you
> might consider emailing our moderator privately for a scientific
> tally. In search of opinions from anyone other than the Fox. Tom T
>

My perception of the Fox's postings who concludes that all is 
satire, is so full of bullshit, I must hold my nose to read it. I 
find his comments deeply antagonistic and reflecting a great deal of 
fear. 

Recently he was attempting to bully TurquoiseB, as per this exchange:

TurquoiseB:
> Do you really *need* the affirmation of a 'guru,' to
> justify your belief in something? Or science?

Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
Ditto.

And you got my story all wrong. I think maybe you got wax in your
ears, old-timer. Anyway, its my story, misunderstnd it all you want,
but don't sit and try to re-write my story to suit you.! Got it
partner! Else we and de boys will show you something you will give a
flying fuck about.

TurquoiseB:
> Whatever happened to trusting in one's own experience?

Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
I don't know. Maybe your infallable intuition can help us find out?
Dig it out of your saddle bags, gabby.

TurquoiseB:
> That's what all the saints you revere did. Learn from
> their example.

Fox (akasha108, braaamaan):
But you aren't sellng ay advice are you? So you are just talking to
yourself, making a mental note for something for YOU to follow right?
Else you would be breaking the old-timers campfire credo. And if you
do that,there will be SHIT to pay at the old coral tomorrow, Dab 
gumm IT!

=
I also had quite a lengthy exchange with this 'genius' where much of 
what I said was scrutinized and insulted, to the point where I will 
not engage him anymore. 

Fortunately I was exposed to this intellectual doubletalk for years 
earlier in my life, and eventually was able to see through it for 
what it was; a desperate attempt of such a person to avoid facing 
what they fear is a volcano of suppressed rage within them, 
compensated instead by a sharp intellect that works overtime on 
equivocating everything. 

Oddly, the greatest enemy of such a person is their distorted inner 
belief that they are in fact smarter than the rest of us. 
Pathetically, they are just outsmarting themselves.
 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> > defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> > know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> > Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the chicken
> > house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm and our
> > friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it is a great exercise
> > in rationalization and creative thinking. I would like to ask those
> > who have been on the recieving end to speak up. Even if it wasn't
> > aimed at you your comments would be useful. We might even see if there
> > might even be some evidence supporting the perception of sarcasm and
> > rage. You may vote by responding yes or no. If being the brunt of
> > future attacks does not motivate you to want to post publicly you
> > might consider emailing our moderator privately for a scientific
> > tally. In search of opinions from anyone other than the Fox. Tom T
> 
> Its raining out. I am drenched. You say I am dry as a bone. What can I
> say?
> 
> You call up some friends (a metaphore for people not really following
> the discussion in detail - which appears to include yourself) and say
> "I got this guy standing here dry as a bone and he has the audacity to
> say he is dripping wet. Isn't he a fool?" Who won't agree with that.
> 
> But tell me Tom, all this discussion is about one post I made. In
> which I contrasted the point that you say brahman is the one seeing
> through your eyes and the one writing through your fingers. And then
> you / Brahaman went on to "rage on" at others to "walk the plank or
> suck eggs" -- to paraphrase. Don't you find that at least a little bit
> funny?
>

And if not, if your point is "Brahamn says everything and nothing",
then fine.  Then this would be a profound truth -- at least in some
peoples book. So if this is the correct interpretation, why are people
getting bent out of shape from a short parable about adding this
profound truth to a collection of other profound truths -- that is
putting the quote at the top of my alter. 

Its either funny and the "parable" is a funny satire.

Of its profound and the "parable" is profound.

Or are people simply loking for something to vent on? Anything.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
> defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
> know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
> Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the chicken
> house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm and our
> friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it is a great exercise
> in rationalization and creative thinking. I would like to ask those
> who have been on the recieving end to speak up. Even if it wasn't
> aimed at you your comments would be useful. We might even see if there
> might even be some evidence supporting the perception of sarcasm and
> rage. You may vote by responding yes or no. If being the brunt of
> future attacks does not motivate you to want to post publicly you
> might consider emailing our moderator privately for a scientific
> tally. In search of opinions from anyone other than the Fox. Tom T

Its raining out. I am drenched. You say I am dry as a bone. What can I
say?

You call up some friends (a metaphore for people not really following
the discussion in detail - which appears to include yourself) and say
"I got this guy standing here dry as a bone and he has the audacity to
say he is dripping wet. Isn't he a fool?" Who won't agree with that.

But tell me Tom, all this discussion is about one post I made. In
which I contrasted the point that you say brahman is the one seeing
through your eyes and the one writing through your fingers. And then
you / Brahaman went on to "rage on" at others to "walk the plank or
suck eggs" -- to paraphrase. Don't you find that at least a little bit
funny?










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Judy writes snipped:
I'm not sure that was what Tom was saying anyway.  I
*think* what he meant--Tom, please correct me if I'm
wrong--was simply that he has realized experientially
that Brahman is all he sees and all he says (and all
any of us see or say, "wrong" or "right," "bad" or
"good," the only difference being that many of us
haven't realized it yet).

Tom T:
YES YES thats all it is about. Brahman as the charioteer sometimes
gets out the spurs and whips and is not at all afraid to lay them on
with gusto. Once you know that as your reality it is hard to see the
old way. Tom T






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

It would appear IMHO that we have a person on this list who has
defined his behavior as Satire. THose on the recieving end feel and
know it as sarcasm with a nasty bite, one might even call it rage.
Asking the Fox to tell you the opinions of the chickens in the chicken
house seems inappropriate. I for one see nothing but sarcasm and our
friend is trying to define it away as Satire, it is a great exercise
in rationalization and creative thinking. I would like to ask those
who have been on the recieving end to speak up. Even if it wasn't
aimed at you your comments would be useful. We might even see if there
might even be some evidence supporting the perception of sarcasm and
rage. You may vote by responding yes or no. If being the brunt of
future attacks does not motivate you to want to post publicly you
might consider emailing our moderator privately for a scientific
tally. In search of opinions from anyone other than the Fox. Tom T





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I'd never thought about it before, but it seems to
> > me
> > as I read your question that "satirical" and
> > "passive-
> > aggressive" are virtually synonymous.  There are
> > other
> > forms of passive-aggressive behavior, of course, but
> > I'm not sure there's any such thing as satire that
> > isn't passive-aggressive, by its very nature.
> 
> I agree with you. Satire, by its very nature "leans"
> in the direction of passive-aggressive behavior. 

Perhaps. But I think a case can be made that satire is a positve force
for insight, clarificaion of cognative quirks, and force for postive
change. Its not about attacking an individual (or group), but an
attempt to: 

1) reflect or replay events from a "new angle" with enough adge and
amping up the contrast knob, so that all can laugh. Even the object of
satire.

2) amp up the contrast, so that satire can help isolate the factors at
play. Make them more tangible, recognizable and actionable.

3) be a constructive means to vent legitimate anger and rage.

4) unearth ironies and paradoxes

Thus, IMO, satire focusses on issues and "perceptions" and less on
attacking a person. In contrast, sarcasm, while pretty funny at times,
ultimately is aimed at putting another person down. It tries to
distinguish the sarcasmer from the sarcasmee, creating boundaries.

see: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/82336


> But
> when it crosses into sarcasm then it truly has become
> passive-aggressive.

Yes. Agreed. Though I am less clear that sarcasm and satire are simply
ranges n a continuum. I think they may actually be separate spaces.
Not intersecting.
 
> > On the other hand, that wouldn't mean indulging in
> > satire was necessarily a sign of some kind of
> > psychopathology or personality disorder.
> 
> Agreed. It's not neccessarily pathological. Good
> satire is hilarious and an effective way of
> confronting interpersonal/social problems in a certain
> context.

Can you define when it is pathological and is not effective? If you
say when it becomes sarcasm, I agree. But as above, I am coming to the
position that sarcasm and satire dont overlap or intersect. When they
 are clearly understood, they are separate spaces.

> 
> I think satire arises when there's a certain loss of
> one's voice. 

Perhaps thais one instance. But its hardly true that this is
characteristic of all satrists. Did Swift lose his real voice and had
to stoop to satire to make his points? No. I think he rose to the
level of satire to make points that would be difficult or impossible
to do in linear discourse.

I saw Sarah Silverman last night and she touched areas that I think
would be impossible to do in linear, analytic fashion.

Saying "satire arises when there's a certain loss of
one's voice", IMO, is like saying Bob Dylan stooped to music and
lyrics because he could not make it as an academic -- he "lost" or
could not cultivate an acadmeic voice. And de Kooning sunk to art to
express humself, becasue he lost his voice. And Neruda and Tagore
stooped to poetry because the lost their real voice. 

> One is not being heard by another so you
> begin to satirize the very thing that prevents you
> from being heard. 

Disagree. See above. Satire is a legitimate form of exprssion, not
inferior to linear discourse, art, poetry, fil, or music. Its just
anothr channel.

> You don't take certain aspects of
> the other person/institution seriously and you mock
> these aspects.

You don't understand satire IMO. Its not about taking or not taking a
person/institution seriously. It may be about not bowing to sacred
cows. its more about stating from a blank slate, a field without
cognative distortions, cultural and gender biases, and personal stuff
that lets one better see ironies and paradoxes that are amusing,
insightful, or gut-wrenchingly funny.

Satire does not mock in the sense of sarcasm. It focuses ultimately on
"issues" and understanding, not demeaning others (though this is a
subtle point -- some stereotypes may be demaned -- not individuals --
so that ALL can laugh at the amped out stereotypes.)

> Legitimized governments never engage in
> satire, they are deadly serious

Not sure I can agree about "never". Maybe,"sometimes". The Kennedy
wit, sort of satiristic, certainly self-depricating in demaning and
declawing pomposity. Trudeau seemed to have some wit. As did Jerry
Brown. And Reagan. Chirac perhaps -- hard to tell being too far away.
Tony Blair certainly does. And who could not howl after yeltsin had a
few vodkas. Welensa seemed pretty witty at times.

Regardless. gov't leaders (who else speaks for governments) can be
quite witty, satirical, self-effacing. 

> and their
> seriousness is open to satire. Sacasm though, is truly
> passive-aggressive and indicates that, for what ever
> reason, all civility is called-off and now we'll
> attempt to 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I'd never thought about it before, but it seems to
> > me
> > as I read your question that "satirical" and
> > "passive-
> > aggressive" are virtually synonymous.  There are
> > other
> > forms of passive-aggressive behavior, of course, but
> > I'm not sure there's any such thing as satire that
> > isn't passive-aggressive, by its very nature.
> 
> I agree with you. Satire, by its very nature "leans"
> in the direction of passive-aggressive behavior. But
> when it crosses into sarcasm then it truly has become
> passive-aggressive.
> 
> > On the other hand, that wouldn't mean indulging in
> > satire was necessarily a sign of some kind of
> > psychopathology or personality disorder.
> 
> Agreed. It's not neccessarily pathological. Good
> satire is hilarious and an effective way of
> confronting interpersonal/social problems in a certain
> context.
> > 
> > I'll be interested to see what Peter has to say on 
> > this score.  I may well be misunderstanding what he
> > means by passive-aggressive.  But from a literary
> > rather than a purely psychological perspective, I
> > think it may be an apt way to characterize satire.
> 
> I think satire arises when there's a certain loss of
> one's voice. One is not being heard by another so you
> begin to satirize the very thing that prevents you
> from being heard. You don't take certain aspects of
> the other person/institution seriously and you mock
> these aspects. Legitimized governments never engage in
> satire, they are deadly seriousand their
> seriousness is open to satire. Sacasm though, is truly
> passive-aggressive and indicates that, for what ever
> reason, all civility is called-off and now we'll
> attempt to impugn another to remove any vestige of
> legitimacy they might have. 
> 
> 
eg. Effective satire: Search for a Queen for King Tony ;-) 

JohnY 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's interesting to see that recently posters have used the 
> suggestion that someone might be angry as a way of attempting to 
> disgrace or belittle them.
> It is spiritual fascism to come on like this.
> Oh I should add,, IMHO
>  
 When 'they' want to attempt the ultimate put down: "sexually
repressed, Republican" (for using f**ck, no less..) What a hoot! 

JohnY 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > That you find satire "passive-aggressive" is interesting. As asked
> > before,do you find all satire as such? Or just what you find to be
> > "bad satire"? Or just satire directed at you or your friends?
> 
> I'd never thought about it before, but it seems to me
> as I read your question that "satirical" and "passive-
> aggressive" are virtually synonymous.  


I was pondering the same question. The issue has some depth and
nuance, not a yes or no answer, IMO. Here's how I am coming out on it.
(How it is coming out of me, haha)

I think sarcasm is almost always passive-aggressive. But not satire.

Tom Wolf's latest novel, "I Am Charlotte Simmons" - exploring
contemporary life on college campuses, depicts three levels of sarcasm 
used -- often by women. Sarc I, Sarc II and Sarc III -- the most
subtle and yet most devestating. Its an interesting study, with lots
of life examples in the novel, of passive-aggressive behavior.

In contrast, while satire may or may not reflect some rage, I don't
see it as passive agressive. And to clarify, rage may be a positve
force at times, not "always" a bad thing. For example, Lenny Bruce was
enraged at social conditions and used satire as a channel to vent that
rage, and to effectively do something about the things that enraged
him. Thus rage, a legitimate reaction to society in the 50s and 60s
was channelled constructively through satire.

As partially outlined in an adjacent post, I suggest satire can
reflect or replay events from a "new angle" with enough adge and
amping up the contrast knob, so that all can laugh. Even the object of
satire "Yea, thats funny. But I am not THAT bad. haha. But hey, I know
guys that are, believe me. But I am not one of THEM. but hey that
satire peice was funny."

Second, I think, by amping up the contrast, satire can help isolate
the factors at play. Make them more tangible, recognizable and actionable.

Third, satire can be a constructive means to vent legitimate anger and
rage.

Fourth, satire can unearth ironies and paradoxes -- which I think we
can all agree are "good" things to ponder.

Thus, IMO, satire focusses on issues and "perceptions" and less on
attacking a person. In contrast, sarcasm, while pretty funny at times,
ultimately is aimed at putting another person down. It tries to
distinguish the sarcasmer from the sarcasmee, creating boundaries.

But hey, I could be wrong. 



> There are other
> forms of passive-aggressive behavior, of course, but
> I'm not sure there's any such thing as satire that
> isn't passive-aggressive, by its very nature.
> 
> On the other hand, that wouldn't mean indulging in
> satire was necessarily a sign of some kind of
> psychopathology or personality disorder.
> 
> I'll be interested to see what Peter has to say on 
> this score.  I may well be misunderstanding what he
> means by passive-aggressive.  But from a literary
> rather than a purely psychological perspective, I
> think it may be an apt way to characterize satire.
> 
> 
> > Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats not
> > funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and writing
> > through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to go walk 
> > the long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their better 
> > moments, could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just THERE in 
> > life. Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the humor, you 
> > might consider "loosening up" a bit.
> 
> Is it your view that Brahman always takes pains to be
> polite?  I think I'm missing something here.  Is not
> Brahman all-inclusive?
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Peter]

--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> I'd never thought about it before, but it seems to
> me
> as I read your question that "satirical" and
> "passive-
> aggressive" are virtually synonymous.  There are
> other
> forms of passive-aggressive behavior, of course, but
> I'm not sure there's any such thing as satire that
> isn't passive-aggressive, by its very nature.

I agree with you. Satire, by its very nature "leans"
in the direction of passive-aggressive behavior. But
when it crosses into sarcasm then it truly has become
passive-aggressive.

> On the other hand, that wouldn't mean indulging in
> satire was necessarily a sign of some kind of
> psychopathology or personality disorder.

Agreed. It's not neccessarily pathological. Good
satire is hilarious and an effective way of
confronting interpersonal/social problems in a certain
context.
> 
> I'll be interested to see what Peter has to say on 
> this score.  I may well be misunderstanding what he
> means by passive-aggressive.  But from a literary
> rather than a purely psychological perspective, I
> think it may be an apt way to characterize satire.

I think satire arises when there's a certain loss of
one's voice. One is not being heard by another so you
begin to satirize the very thing that prevents you
from being heard. You don't take certain aspects of
the other person/institution seriously and you mock
these aspects. Legitimized governments never engage in
satire, they are deadly seriousand their
seriousness is open to satire. Sacasm though, is truly
passive-aggressive and indicates that, for what ever
reason, all civility is called-off and now we'll
attempt to impugn another to remove any vestige of
legitimacy they might have. 




> 
> 
> > Again, looking at the comment that started this
> exchange, whats not
> > funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is
> seing and writing
> > through them, who then proceeds to tell every one
> off, "to go walk 
> > the long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even
> in their better 
> > moments, could not equal that. Sometimes satire is
> just THERE in 
> > life. Somethings are just funny. If you don't see
> the humor, you 
> > might consider "loosening up" a bit.
> 
> Is it your view that Brahman always takes pains to
> be
> polite?  I think I'm missing something here.  Is not
> Brahman all-inclusive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's interesting to see that recently posters have used the 
> suggestion that someone might be angry as a way of attempting to 
> disgrace or belittle them.
> It is spiritual fascism to come on like this.
> Oh I should add,, IMHO


Yes, it can be a bit of a show stopper.

And if someone perceives anger in another, it takes only a modest
amount of maturity to recognize that that is their own impression, and
other "explanations" may be in play. Unless its a quite visible anger,
viewed in-person, for example a breaking dishes and shouting --
without rational basis -- type of anger, Then its beyond hypothesis. 

Regardless, for either type, it becomes pretty clear with life
experiences, that people who are "suffering" anger (and I mean it in a
similar way as "suffering a disease" -- are NOT doing it "on purpose",
something tiggers it and it unfolds. No decision to do so is involved. 

Another insight I found unfolding in my teens, in having to deal with
"angry people" -- as well as my own teen "anger" I found flaring up in
myself -- is that a good way of dealing with persons in the throws of
anger is NOT to react to them and the content of their anger. 

They are looking for something, anything, to get pissed off at, to
vent the volcano of rage surging up in them. Confronting them, "you
are angry" or engaging them on their level "I am NOT a stuid asshole!"
are not productive. Its just throwing oil on the fire. Absorbing what
ever they say, "sucking it up", letting their mud settle in your
"ocean" is a means to difuse the situation. Often almost instantly. 

These are the life-lessons I learned as a teen. Thats why I find it
surprising that a trained and licensed therapist acts in ways that
seem devoid of any awareness of such simple andbasic insights. that
is: i) confronts in absolutist terms, "you are angry", ii) does not
recognize any other possibilities (even though the diagnosis is
on-line for a person they have never met and know virtualy nothing
about), iii) and directly engages with the person they feel is angry
(instead of the "absorbson difussion" appraoch I know usually
diffusses things quickly).   

It beomes, IMO, even funnier when the therapist misdiagnoses the
anger, and yet stil directly engages with the phantom anger. 

Therapist: "You are angry. Absolutely without question."

On-line Stranger: "No, thats not the case."

Therapist: "Oh, yes you are. Don't give me that bullshit that you
always do."

On-line Stranger: Bullshit? Always give you? 

Therapist: "Don't give me of your passive-aggressive slams and
bullshit. I won't stand for that, I won't STAND for THAT, I won't, I
won't, I WON'T!!! You fucking asshole!"

On-line Stranger: Um, ok. But maybe we could discuss the issue at hand.

Therapist: "Bullshit! I absolutely refuse to discuss the issues with
anyone who is so blatnatly insulting and passive-aggressively ANGRY.
Such behaviors makes me SO MAD I could SCREAM. I refuse to interact
with such people!"

On-line Stranger: "Um, ok. Good luck with that."

Therapist: "Shut up you fucking asshole!!"

---

I use mimicing and satire as a means to help diagnose such social
dynamics. Its not to "hurt" the object of the satire, but to replay,
to re-reflect "odd" behaviors in such a way that everyone can laugh.
To provide an out "I get your point, put clearly I am not THAT bad.
haha. " 

And taking real curcumstances and replaying them with a bit more edge,
a bit more contrast, helps to isolate the key factors at play. 

Thats why I find it doubly odd that use of satire is critiziced as
being a manifestation of latent anger (I think that is what Peter is
say.).

But its all grist for the mill of satire. Taken together, its all
pretty funny, with lots of nice texture an duance. And lessons to chew
on and absorb.





> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious
> > > > prediction: you see rage
> > > > and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?
> > > 
> > > And what else is new in your denial!
> > > 
> > > > Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or
> > > > criticizes you, in
> > > > which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in
> > > > the poster?
> > > 
> > > Absolutely. Someone who is straight forward in their
> > > anger. You don't like what I say at times. Fine. But
> > > instead of just stating that, you start on these
> > > passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces that have
> > > nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 
> > 
> > Ok. But that seems to have nothing to do with the current exchange.
> > You appear to keep bringing up old business thats in your head and
> > repeating it as if it has some contemporary relevance.
> > 
> 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Premanand Paul Mason]

I remember attending a social evening attended by TM meditators. I 
found myself talking to one of the Muesli Mafia, a really laid-back 
blissed-out sort, an example of just how wonderful one might become. 
I determined to probe how deep or permanent was this equanimity, 
minutes later he was RAGING! = He is human.

We hear tales of MMY getting angry = It would appear he also is human.

But when someone on FFL gets pissed off, time to become a bliss hit-
man.

Give me real passion anyday - leave vain self-control to the recluses.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's interesting to see that recently posters have used the 
> suggestion that someone might be angry as a way of attempting to 
> disgrace or belittle them.
> It is spiritual fascism to come on like this.
> Oh I should add,, IMHO
>  
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious
> > > > prediction: you see rage
> > > > and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?
> > > 
> > > And what else is new in your denial!
> > > 
> > > > Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or
> > > > criticizes you, in
> > > > which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in
> > > > the poster?
> > > 
> > > Absolutely. Someone who is straight forward in their
> > > anger. You don't like what I say at times. Fine. But
> > > instead of just stating that, you start on these
> > > passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces that have
> > > nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 
> > 
> > Ok. But that seems to have nothing to do with the current 
exchange.
> > You appear to keep bringing up old business thats in your head and
> > repeating it as if it has some contemporary relevance.
> > 
> > Lets look at your current comments. 
> > 
> > > Absolutely. 
> > > Someone who is straight forward in their
> > > anger.
> > 
> > You know this to be true absoluetely? How?
> > 
> > Your comments would be relevant in a conversation with someone 
who 
> is
> > angry with you. Not someone who is pointing out some ironies with 
a
> > chuckle. If anyone is angry here, it appears tht it may be you. 
Its
> > like I have been walking on a nice clear day and you come up to 
me 
> and
> > say why are you total wet? How to answer such?
> > 
> > > You don't like what I say at times. 
> > 
> > I find somethings you say at times ironic and contradictory. As I 
do
> > in myself, and others. That usually makes me laugh. Abd I may 
> disagree
> > with some facts of yours or some logic. Which I do with myself 
(upon
> > reviewz) and others. But this has nothing to do with "not liking" 
> you
> > or what you say. Its not a personal thing. Its not an emtional 
thing
> > (which "liking" refers to. Its an intellectual thing. An 
analytical
> > thing. Do you see the distinction?
> > 
> > > Fine. But instead of just stating that, you start on these
> > > passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces 
> > 
> > I do use satire at times to bring some issue to light. It sems 
both 
> a
> > gentler way and a more amusing way than dry analysis.
> > 
> > That you find satire "passive-aggressive" is interesting. As asked
> > before,do you find all satire as such? Or just what you find to be
> > "bad satire"? Or just satire directed at you or your friends?
> > 
> > That you find satire and "attack" in interesting to. Do you ever 
> laugh
> > at yourself? Find your antics amusing? I find lots of folly in my
> > life. I satirize myself. With great mirth. I recommend it.
> > 
> > > that have
> > > nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 
> > 
> > I am sorry that you are unable to find any relevance in my my 
> satiric
> > pieces.  Not being able to find relvance, brings you to an opinion
> > "this has nothing to do with the discussion." Thats a opinion 
that I
> > don't share. I find they have everything to do with the 
discussion.
> > I can try to footnote what my satires are focussed on so yu can 
> follow
> > along if that helps.
> > 
> > Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats 
not
> > funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and writing
> > through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to go 
walk 
> the
> > long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their better 
> moments,
> > could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just THERE in life.
> > Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the humor, you might
> > consider "loosening up" a bit.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats
> > not funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and 
> > writing through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to 
> > go walk the long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their 
> > better moments, could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just 
> > THERE in life. Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the 
> > humor, you might consider "loosening up" a bit.
> 
> Is it your view that Brahman always takes pains to be
> polite?  I think I'm missing something here.  Is not
> Brahman all-inclusive?

To clarify a bit: To characterize what one is saying
as coming from Brahman, as if that gave it more weight,
is actually meaningless, since Brahman encompasses all
expressions whatsoever, the saintly as well as the
unholy.  Brahman could "tell" you to go suck eggs just
as well as it could "say" you were a person of the
highest wisdom.  (At least that's my intellectual
understanding of Brahman's nature.)

I'm not sure that was what Tom was saying anyway.  I
*think* what he meant--Tom, please correct me if I'm
wrong--was simply that he has realized experientially
that Brahman is all he sees and all he says (and all
any of us see or say, "wrong" or "right," "bad" or
"good," the only difference being that many of us
haven't realized it yet).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> That you find satire "passive-aggressive" is interesting. As asked
> before,do you find all satire as such? Or just what you find to be
> "bad satire"? Or just satire directed at you or your friends?

I'd never thought about it before, but it seems to me
as I read your question that "satirical" and "passive-
aggressive" are virtually synonymous.  There are other
forms of passive-aggressive behavior, of course, but
I'm not sure there's any such thing as satire that
isn't passive-aggressive, by its very nature.

On the other hand, that wouldn't mean indulging in
satire was necessarily a sign of some kind of
psychopathology or personality disorder.

I'll be interested to see what Peter has to say on 
this score.  I may well be misunderstanding what he
means by passive-aggressive.  But from a literary
rather than a purely psychological perspective, I
think it may be an apt way to characterize satire.


> Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats not
> funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and writing
> through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to go walk 
> the long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their better 
> moments, could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just THERE in 
> life. Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the humor, you 
> might consider "loosening up" a bit.

Is it your view that Brahman always takes pains to be
polite?  I think I'm missing something here.  Is not
Brahman all-inclusive?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Premanand Paul Mason]

It's interesting to see that recently posters have used the 
suggestion that someone might be angry as a way of attempting to 
disgrace or belittle them.
It is spiritual fascism to come on like this.
Oh I should add,, IMHO
 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious
> > > prediction: you see rage
> > > and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?
> > 
> > And what else is new in your denial!
> > 
> > > Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or
> > > criticizes you, in
> > > which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in
> > > the poster?
> > 
> > Absolutely. Someone who is straight forward in their
> > anger. You don't like what I say at times. Fine. But
> > instead of just stating that, you start on these
> > passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces that have
> > nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 
> 
> Ok. But that seems to have nothing to do with the current exchange.
> You appear to keep bringing up old business thats in your head and
> repeating it as if it has some contemporary relevance.
> 
> Lets look at your current comments. 
> 
> > Absolutely. 
> > Someone who is straight forward in their
> > anger.
> 
> You know this to be true absoluetely? How?
> 
> Your comments would be relevant in a conversation with someone who 
is
> angry with you. Not someone who is pointing out some ironies with a
> chuckle. If anyone is angry here, it appears tht it may be you. Its
> like I have been walking on a nice clear day and you come up to me 
and
> say why are you total wet? How to answer such?
> 
> > You don't like what I say at times. 
> 
> I find somethings you say at times ironic and contradictory. As I do
> in myself, and others. That usually makes me laugh. Abd I may 
disagree
> with some facts of yours or some logic. Which I do with myself (upon
> reviewz) and others. But this has nothing to do with "not liking" 
you
> or what you say. Its not a personal thing. Its not an emtional thing
> (which "liking" refers to. Its an intellectual thing. An analytical
> thing. Do you see the distinction?
> 
> > Fine. But instead of just stating that, you start on these
> > passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces 
> 
> I do use satire at times to bring some issue to light. It sems both 
a
> gentler way and a more amusing way than dry analysis.
> 
> That you find satire "passive-aggressive" is interesting. As asked
> before,do you find all satire as such? Or just what you find to be
> "bad satire"? Or just satire directed at you or your friends?
> 
> That you find satire and "attack" in interesting to. Do you ever 
laugh
> at yourself? Find your antics amusing? I find lots of folly in my
> life. I satirize myself. With great mirth. I recommend it.
> 
> > that have
> > nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 
> 
> I am sorry that you are unable to find any relevance in my my 
satiric
> pieces.  Not being able to find relvance, brings you to an opinion
> "this has nothing to do with the discussion." Thats a opinion that I
> don't share. I find they have everything to do with the discussion.
> I can try to footnote what my satires are focussed on so yu can 
follow
> along if that helps.
> 
> Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats not
> funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and writing
> through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to go walk 
the
> long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their better 
moments,
> could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just THERE in life.
> Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the humor, you might
> consider "loosening up" a bit.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious
> > prediction: you see rage
> > and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?
> 
> And what else is new in your denial!
> 
> > Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or
> > criticizes you, in
> > which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in
> > the poster?
> 
> Absolutely. Someone who is straight forward in their
> anger. You don't like what I say at times. Fine. But
> instead of just stating that, you start on these
> passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces that have
> nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 

Ok. But that seems to have nothing to do with the current exchange.
You appear to keep bringing up old business thats in your head and
repeating it as if it has some contemporary relevance.

Lets look at your current comments. 

> Absolutely. 
> Someone who is straight forward in their
> anger.

You know this to be true absoluetely? How?

Your comments would be relevant in a conversation with someone who is
angry with you. Not someone who is pointing out some ironies with a
chuckle. If anyone is angry here, it appears tht it may be you. Its
like I have been walking on a nice clear day and you come up to me and
say why are you total wet? How to answer such?

> You don't like what I say at times. 

I find somethings you say at times ironic and contradictory. As I do
in myself, and others. That usually makes me laugh. Abd I may disagree
with some facts of yours or some logic. Which I do with myself (upon
reviewz) and others. But this has nothing to do with "not liking" you
or what you say. Its not a personal thing. Its not an emtional thing
(which "liking" refers to. Its an intellectual thing. An analytical
thing. Do you see the distinction?

> Fine. But instead of just stating that, you start on these
> passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces 

I do use satire at times to bring some issue to light. It sems both a
gentler way and a more amusing way than dry analysis.

That you find satire "passive-aggressive" is interesting. As asked
before,do you find all satire as such? Or just what you find to be
"bad satire"? Or just satire directed at you or your friends?

That you find satire and "attack" in interesting to. Do you ever laugh
at yourself? Find your antics amusing? I find lots of folly in my
life. I satirize myself. With great mirth. I recommend it.

> that have
> nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 

I am sorry that you are unable to find any relevance in my my satiric
pieces.  Not being able to find relvance, brings you to an opinion
"this has nothing to do with the discussion." Thats a opinion that I
don't share. I find they have everything to do with the discussion.
I can try to footnote what my satires are focussed on so yu can follow
along if that helps.

Again, looking at the comment that started this exchange, whats not
funny about someone proclaiming that Brahman is seing and writing
through them, who then proceeds to tell every one off, "to go walk the
long plank or suck eggs". Mad TV or SNL, even in their better moments,
could not equal that. Sometimes satire is just THERE in life.
Somethings are just funny. If you don't see the humor, you might
consider "loosening up" a bit.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[Peter]

--- braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious
> prediction: you see rage
> and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?

And what else is new in your denial!

> Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or
> criticizes you, in
> which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in
> the poster?

Absolutely. Someone who is straight forward in their
anger. You don't like what I say at times. Fine. But
instead of just stating that, you start on these
passive-aggressive satiric attack pieces that have
nothing to do with the topic under discussion. 


> 
> Lets list the posts explicitly.
> 
> Its such a great defense mechanism. Especially when
> you can cloak it
> with a  phd and professional practice.

What are you saying in the above? I don't come onto
this newsgroup to practice clinical psychology, but it
certainly does inform my thoughts. And what is this
" phd" stuff? I don't have a doctoral degree?
(It's actually a Psy.D., not a Ph.D.) again your
points are utterly lost in this passive-aggressive
"satire."

> Again, waiting for you to cantact me about that
> paper. 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Peter, your recent comments on rage are
> intriguing. 
> > 
> > You see rage in my satire. I'm just curious. Do
> you see rage in other
> > satires? Swift, Bruce, Sahl, Kaufman, Gorafalo,
> Silverman ? 
> > 
> > Not that my satire is of their caliber. Mine is
> only amateur -- yet it
> > is topical. Being amateur, I should think it may
> induce greater rage
> > in you than professional satirists. Is that the
> case? 
> > 
> > Or maybe its the ineptitude of my satire that
> enrages you, as if you
> > are shouting inside "damn it, if you are going to
> be satirical, at
> > least do a good job at it !." (Or as Barry would
> say "Do a flying fuck
> > good job at it.".) I agree. Bad comics are bad
> news. But sick? 
> > 
> > But, yeah. I agree. There is nothing lamer than
> someone who professes
> > to be something and doesn't come near the
> standards of his or her
> > profession. 
> > 
> > Well, maybe you don't like the "satire campfire".
> Maybe you are more
> > comfortable in your own backyard, making smores.
> Near Mom. Not in the
> > wilderness that satire entails. No harm, no foul. 
> > 
> > Maybe you don't like campfires. Where high yarns
> are told and tall
> > tales are spun. And you need to sort out stuff for
> yourself. Beyond
> > the sacred literal.  No harm, no foul. 
> > 
> > Well rage is an intersting phenomenon. Good luck
> in treating yours.
> > Its odd isn't it, people with maladies migrate
> towards becoming
> > treatment professionalsin to those same maladies.
> > 
> > I tended towards satire. yes all acknowledgements
> of lameness fully
> > owned. Guess I tended towards curing my damn funny
> bone. Inept an
> > attempt as that has been. But I can't stop
> laughing. Is that a
> > sickness? In your book? Giggling? Braeking out in
> a roaring laugh like
> > a bear? Vapid sickness? What kind of therapy
> shouldI seek for a warped
> > funny bone? A warped therapist? 
> > 
> > No thats not the same bone you were keen on when
> apologizing to Tom.
> > Now THAT, I have to hand it to you, was like the
> best INEPT move I
> > have seen ever. Totally breaking boundaries.
> Kaufmanesque. All plauds
> > to you on that one. The scales of ackwardness and
> bad taste were
> > raised to such heights, I was in awe. Maladjust on
> brother.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Seeing Rage

[braaahmaan]

Oh, yes. Sorry. I forgot to state the obvious prediction: you see rage
and anger in my post. hahaha. What else is new?

Can you cite one post that pokes fun at you, or criticizes you, in
which you don't, in YOUR EYES, see rage and anger in the poster?

Lets list the posts explicitly.

Its such a great defense mechanism. Especially when you can cloak it
with a  phd and professional practice. 

Again, waiting for you to cantact me about that paper. 

 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Peter, your recent comments on rage are intriguing. 
> 
> You see rage in my satire. I'm just curious. Do you see rage in other
> satires? Swift, Bruce, Sahl, Kaufman, Gorafalo, Silverman ? 
> 
> Not that my satire is of their caliber. Mine is only amateur -- yet it
> is topical. Being amateur, I should think it may induce greater rage
> in you than professional satirists. Is that the case? 
> 
> Or maybe its the ineptitude of my satire that enrages you, as if you
> are shouting inside "damn it, if you are going to be satirical, at
> least do a good job at it !." (Or as Barry would say "Do a flying fuck
> good job at it.".) I agree. Bad comics are bad news. But sick? 
> 
> But, yeah. I agree. There is nothing lamer than someone who professes
> to be something and doesn't come near the standards of his or her
> profession. 
> 
> Well, maybe you don't like the "satire campfire". Maybe you are more
> comfortable in your own backyard, making smores. Near Mom. Not in the
> wilderness that satire entails. No harm, no foul. 
> 
> Maybe you don't like campfires. Where high yarns are told and tall
> tales are spun. And you need to sort out stuff for yourself. Beyond
> the sacred literal.  No harm, no foul. 
> 
> Well rage is an intersting phenomenon. Good luck in treating yours.
> Its odd isn't it, people with maladies migrate towards becoming
> treatment professionalsin to those same maladies.
> 
> I tended towards satire. yes all acknowledgements of lameness fully
> owned. Guess I tended towards curing my damn funny bone. Inept an
> attempt as that has been. But I can't stop laughing. Is that a
> sickness? In your book? Giggling? Braeking out in a roaring laugh like
> a bear? Vapid sickness? What kind of therapy shouldI seek for a warped
> funny bone? A warped therapist? 
> 
> No thats not the same bone you were keen on when apologizing to Tom.
> Now THAT, I have to hand it to you, was like the best INEPT move I
> have seen ever. Totally breaking boundaries. Kaufmanesque. All plauds
> to you on that one. The scales of ackwardness and bad taste were
> raised to such heights, I was in awe. Maladjust on brother.
>






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