[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip The most recent findings I know of are that the face is identical to one of Leonardo's drawings that he made of a cadaver he was studying in one of his pursuits of understanding how the body really worked. Facial recognition software apparently matches them perfectly. Also the head is too small for the body and the picture is bigger at the front than the back, meaning that when the exposure was made (it really appears to be a photograph) they did the front and back seperately and got the wrong distance from the camera obscura in one of them. The most obvious error to me is that it looks like a photo and not like the image would if it had been draped over some- ones head. That would've stretched it and he'd end up looking like an alien - which might start a whole new conspiracy! I saw these guys do a lecture on it that became a docmentary that I can't find a link to: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/turin.htm Fascinating. They say the Shroud image is a perfect match with a Leonardo painting of Christ, Salvator Mundi (minus the moustache and beard). They have links to two very impressive .wmv videos; the first juxtaposes the painting with the Shroud image, the second juxtaposes the Leonardo painting to another painting somebody else made from a negative image of the Shroud. Worth a look. Turin Shroud to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%20to%20Salvator%20quick%20version.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y4tsza5 Aggemian's Shroud Portrait to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%2002%20-%20aggemian%20shroud%20portrait%20to%20salvator%20mundi.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y5pcz5t I think these were the ones they showed there lecture, they had only just worked it out and were rather excited. Don't blame them. They are very convincing and have left the ball in the court of the believers to disprove them. I think it will run and run at least until it gets handed over to science so they can do a better job of testing it than they did last time. Hard to see how the similarity between the Shroud image and the paintings could be explained otherwise. Maybe scientific evidence dating the Shroud isn't even required. No amount of evidence will convince a believer to the contrary as, erm, someone said. But definitively dating it to Leonardo's day would really be something, if only because it would push the date of the first photograph back by a few hundred years! Whatever the truth of it is I still think it's a beautiful thing. Very eerie, I'd love to see it in it's religious home, if only there wasn't a bloody volcano erupting I'd get a cheap flight over there
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip The most recent findings I know of are that the face is identical to one of Leonardo's drawings that he made of a cadaver he was studying in one of his pursuits of understanding how the body really worked. Facial recognition software apparently matches them perfectly. Also the head is too small for the body and the picture is bigger at the front than the back, meaning that when the exposure was made (it really appears to be a photograph) they did the front and back seperately and got the wrong distance from the camera obscura in one of them. The most obvious error to me is that it looks like a photo and not like the image would if it had been draped over some- ones head. That would've stretched it and he'd end up looking like an alien - which might start a whole new conspiracy! I saw these guys do a lecture on it that became a docmentary that I can't find a link to: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/turin.htm Fascinating. They say the Shroud image is a perfect match with a Leonardo painting of Christ, Salvator Mundi (minus the moustache and beard). They have links to two very impressive .wmv videos; the first juxtaposes the painting with the Shroud image, the second juxtaposes the Leonardo painting to another painting somebody else made from a negative image of the Shroud. Worth a look. Turin Shroud to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%20to%20Salvator%20quick%20version.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y4tsza5 Aggemian's Shroud Portrait to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%2002%20-%20aggemian%20shroud%20portrait%20to%20salvator%20mundi.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y5pcz5t I think these were the ones they showed there lecture, they had only just worked it out and were rather excited. Don't blame them. They are very convincing and have left the ball in the court of the believers to disprove them. I think it will run and run at least until it gets handed over to science so they can do a better job of testing it than they did last time. Hard to see how the similarity between the Shroud image and the paintings could be explained otherwise. Maybe scientific evidence dating the Shroud isn't even required. No amount of evidence will convince a believer to the contrary as, erm, someone said. But definitively dating it to Leonardo's day would really be something, if only because it would push the date of the first photograph back by a few hundred years! The camera obscura had been around since a few centuries B.C.E., actually. Did Leonardo take a photograph by putting on the Shround a layer of a substance that changed color when hit by light, or did he just use the projected Salvator Mundi image as an aid to paint it on the Shroud? No idea of the details here... Whatever the truth of it is I still think it's a beautiful thing. Very eerie, I'd love to see it in it's religious home, if only there wasn't a bloody volcano erupting I'd get a cheap flight over there I'd travel a ways to see it, not sure I'd go as far as Europe. Very evocative, in any case.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@... wrote: It seems the swath of fabric carbon tested, was from the patched material. Carbon dating on the same kind of fabric, linen, found in Egyptian tombs, have been *off* by seven hundred years or more due to contamination by bacteria or something growing over time on the linen. Because of this, the carbon 14 dating is considered inconclusive by many. --- On Sat, 4/17/10, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 6:20 PM  --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ ... wrote: On Apr 17, 2010, at 7:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At this point the Big Test of the Shroud's Woo Woo Quotient and the lasting value of its textile darshan will be whether he can actually get home. The Cloud (as opposed to the Shroud) emanating from Iceland and covering Europe has now closed Italian airspace as well, and none of the airlines are answering their 800 numbers. If he gets home tomorrow as planned, consider that a big win for those who believe in the value of visiting holy relics. Barry, hasn't carbon dating pretty much confirmed this as a fake? My bro is more than aware of the carbon-dating, but quotes the TB's argument on it without claim- ing to believe it one way or another. That is, some time ago a small fragment of the Shroud was snipped and taken away for carbon dating and tested to have come from the 12th century. However, the backing of the Shroud is admittedly from the 16th century or something like that, and the Shroud itself has been patched numerous times over the years. So if a Shroudie TB wanted to keep believing, all they would have to say is, They carbon dated part of a 12th-century patch, not the material of the actual Shroud itself. Ya can't argue with that. At least I can't. The most recent findings I know of are that the face is identical to one of Leonardo's drawings that he made of a cadaver he was studying in one of his pursuits of understanding how the body really worked. Facial recognition software apparently matches them perfectly. Also the head is too small for the body and the picture is bigger at the front than the back, meaning that when the exposure was made (it really appears to be a photograph) they did the front and back seperately and got the wrong distance from the camera obscura in one of them. The most obvious error to me is that it looks like a photo and not like the image would if it had been draped over some- ones head. That would've stretched it and he'd end up looking like an alien - which might start a whole new conspiracy! I saw these guys do a lecture on it that became a docmentary that I can't find a link to: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/turin.htm They are very convincing and have left the ball in the court of the believers to disprove them. I think it will run and run at least until it gets handed over to science so they can do a better job of testing it than they did last time. Then again, if he gets something out of it, fake or not, good for him. My feelings exactly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: snip The most recent findings I know of are that the face is identical to one of Leonardo's drawings that he made of a cadaver he was studying in one of his pursuits of understanding how the body really worked. Facial recognition software apparently matches them perfectly. Also the head is too small for the body and the picture is bigger at the front than the back, meaning that when the exposure was made (it really appears to be a photograph) they did the front and back seperately and got the wrong distance from the camera obscura in one of them. The most obvious error to me is that it looks like a photo and not like the image would if it had been draped over some- ones head. That would've stretched it and he'd end up looking like an alien - which might start a whole new conspiracy! I saw these guys do a lecture on it that became a docmentary that I can't find a link to: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/turin.htm Fascinating. They say the Shroud image is a perfect match with a Leonardo painting of Christ, Salvator Mundi (minus the moustache and beard). They have links to two very impressive .wmv videos; the first juxtaposes the painting with the Shroud image, the second juxtaposes the Leonardo painting to another painting somebody else made from a negative image of the Shroud. Worth a look. Turin Shroud to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%20to%20Salvator%20quick%20version.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y4tsza5 Aggemian's Shroud Portrait to Salvator Mundi: http://www.picknettprince.com/books/turinshroud/Shroud%2002%20-%20aggemian%20shroud%20portrait%20to%20salvator%20mundi.wmv http://tinyurl.com/y5pcz5t They are very convincing and have left the ball in the court of the believers to disprove them. I think it will run and run at least until it gets handed over to science so they can do a better job of testing it than they did last time. Hard to see how the similarity between the Shroud image and the paintings could be explained otherwise. Maybe scientific evidence dating the Shroud isn't even required.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: If he gets home tomorrow as planned, consider that a big win for those who believe in the value of visiting holy relics. If that happens, the Shroud Museum might think of opening its own travel agency to compete with Orbitz and Expedia. Fly Jeezpedia...we'll get you there even despite Acts Of God, because we've got an 'in.' :-) While I know this is a light-hearted post, it does illuminate perhaps a similar theme played out in various religions, new-age groups and woo woo circuses. The chain seems to be: 1) If I am pious (or faithful in my program, do some yagyas, see holy people, get darshan, feel the silence, pray five times a day,) then 2) I , Me , will get My Own F'ing way, be Special, and rise above the masses because I am better and more faithful than those ordinary f'ing heathens. Sort of conditional faithfulness, it it helps me get MY Way, I am a believer and faithful, practioneer .. in contrast to: 1) I do my practice, and I find a vibrant silence growing within, I feel more connected to people and things, my heart is full, and then 2) life is an adventure, wonderful things happen that I don't plan or force to happen, through a lot of unplanned detours and these unexpected events and challenges have left my life far richer ... and I have mingled with the masses, flowed with the crowd, and felt enlivened to be part of this magnificent whole. I know which group of practicioneers I would prefer to hang with.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@... wrote: Well I guess every family deserves a *white sheep*. LOL. My brother would laugh, too. It is with *extreme* pleasure that I see his propensity to get a wild hair up his ass and take a last-minute Road Trip (otherwise known as a spiritual pilgrimage) like this, on a whim. My bro often doth not come across as That Kinda Whimprone Person. So good on him. And good on his innocence while approaching and assessing the religious artifact that he hath journeyed thousands of miles to see. I tried my best to report his report as reported, although I cop to spinning some of it avterwards for humor purposes. I would not be able to approach such a religious artifact with as much innocence as he does. I know all too well the ability of the seeker to project that which he doth seek to such an extent that it casteth doubt on the reality of that which he doth perceive in that which he doth seek. I know *firsthand* one's ability to project into a situation that which one wants to find in it. I have WAY been there, done that, and know that this ability coloreth one's subjective experience of what one finds. I don't think my bro is in exactly the same place. Thus I would not -- and have not -- shit in his punchbowl. I have merely listened to -- and reported as accurately as possible here -- his own impressions of the experience. As for the white sheep thang, it's not as if I don't make pilgrimages myself. One of the ways that I amuse myself *is* by journeying to Places Of Power here in Europe. It's one of the things I do for fun. While *at* one of these Places Of Power, what I find my self doing is Juggling A Lot. I mentally juggle my subjective impressions of the place. One side of that self is busy trying to map it to its sales brochure. The sales brochure may describe it as a notable place of pilgrimage, a place where seekers have been coming for centuries to heal what ails 'em. I am -- hard as you may find to believe it -- open to that. However, *at the same time*, another side of my self is open to the mind's seemingly infinite ability to project onto its subjective experience of a place and its power the subsubjective pre-impression of that place that has been programmed into it as a result of reading the place's sales brochure. Me, I just enjoy the time there and then assess any possible difference between the sales brochure impres- sion of the place and my own impression of the place afterwards, and then make my own Overall Vibe Assessment. My subjective Overall Vibe Assessment of many Christian- oriented supposed Places Of Power in Europe is that they are WAY overhyped, and that they...uh...desereth not the hype. On the other hand, quite a few of the older, pre-Christian sites are WAY happening. But that might just be me... --- On Sat, 4/17/10, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 12:18 PM Â My brother just Skype'd me from Torino, where he stood in line with the other seekers last night to see the only-once-every- ten-years showing of the Shroud of Turin. He described waiting to see it in terms of Castaneda's controlled folly, in that although you are pre-assigned a 15-minute window in which to see it, being an Italian system it didn't always work out quite as imagined. The Shroud itself is encased in a climate-controlled bullet- proof glass enclosure that rises up from an altar, and then descends back into it when the viewings are over. He actually enjoyed some of the sidebar exhibitions more than the Shroud itself, especially the one that takes advantage of the fact that the image on the Shroud is essentially a photo negative and turns it into a projected, 3D image of the positive. In other words, you are looking at a 3D hologram of Christ, reconstructed from the 2D negative image on the Shroud. Eeriely lifelike, were I think the words he used. The Vibe Report. He definitely got a hit off of it. Now you have to bear in mind that my brother actually has a thing for Jesus, and reveres him in ways that I do not. And that he has just flown several thousand miles on a whim to see the guy's *possible* image on a sheet. But he definitely got a hit off it. He described it as -- for him -- Emanating white light. At this point the Big Test of the Shroud's Woo Woo Quotient and the lasting value of its textile darshan will be whether he can actually get home. The Cloud (as opposed to the Shroud) emanating from Iceland and covering Europe has now closed Italian airspace as well, and none of the airlines are answering their 800 numbers. If he gets home tomorrow as planned, consider that a big win for those who believe in the value of visiting holy relics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Apr 17, 2010, at 7:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At this point the Big Test of the Shroud's Woo Woo Quotient and the lasting value of its textile darshan will be whether he can actually get home. The Cloud (as opposed to the Shroud) emanating from Iceland and covering Europe has now closed Italian airspace as well, and none of the airlines are answering their 800 numbers. If he gets home tomorrow as planned, consider that a big win for those who believe in the value of visiting holy relics. Barry, hasn't carbon dating pretty much confirmed this as a fake? My bro is more than aware of the carbon-dating, but quotes the TB's argument on it without claim- ing to believe it one way or another. That is, some time ago a small fragment of the Shroud was snipped and taken away for carbon dating and tested to have come from the 12th century. However, the backing of the Shroud is admittedly from the 16th century or something like that, and the Shroud itself has been patched numerous times over the years. So if a Shroudie TB wanted to keep believing, all they would have to say is, They carbon dated part of a 12th-century patch, not the material of the actual Shroud itself. Ya can't argue with that. At least I can't. Then again, if he gets something out of it, fake or not, good for him. My feelings exactly.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
It seems the swath of fabric carbon tested, was from the patched material. Carbon dating on the same kind of fabric, linen, found in Egyptian tombs, have been *off* by seven hundred years or more due to contamination by bacteria or something growing over time on the linen. Because of this, the carbon 14 dating is considered inconclusive by many. --- On Sat, 4/17/10, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 6:20 PM --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ ... wrote: On Apr 17, 2010, at 7:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At this point the Big Test of the Shroud's Woo Woo Quotient and the lasting value of its textile darshan will be whether he can actually get home. The Cloud (as opposed to the Shroud) emanating from Iceland and covering Europe has now closed Italian airspace as well, and none of the airlines are answering their 800 numbers. If he gets home tomorrow as planned, consider that a big win for those who believe in the value of visiting holy relics. Barry, hasn't carbon dating pretty much confirmed this as a fake? My bro is more than aware of the carbon-dating, but quotes the TB's argument on it without claim- ing to believe it one way or another. That is, some time ago a small fragment of the Shroud was snipped and taken away for carbon dating and tested to have come from the 12th century. However, the backing of the Shroud is admittedly from the 16th century or something like that, and the Shroud itself has been patched numerous times over the years. So if a Shroudie TB wanted to keep believing, all they would have to say is, They carbon dated part of a 12th-century patch, not the material of the actual Shroud itself. Ya can't argue with that. At least I can't. Then again, if he gets something out of it, fake or not, good for him. My feelings exactly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: I find a vibrant silence growing within, I feel more connected to people and things, my heart is full, and then 2) life is an adventure, wonderful things happen that I don't plan or force to happen, through a lot of unplanned detours and these unexpected events and challenges have left my life far richer ... and I have mingled with the masses, flowed with the crowd, and felt enlivened to be part of this magnificent whole. Nice to hear what I experience mirrored by another. On the other hand, I don't really care to pass judgment on the path others have chosen. Wouldn't that sort of imply some lingering resentment, or even some elitist sentiment?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shroud of Turin Report (or, When the Fans Hit the Sheet)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: I find a vibrant silence growing within, I feel more connected to people and things, my heart is full, and then 2) life is an adventure, wonderful things happen that I don't plan or force to happen, through a lot of unplanned detours and these unexpected events and challenges have left my life far richer ... and I have mingled with the masses, flowed with the crowd, and felt enlivened to be part of this magnificent whole. Nice to hear what I experience mirrored by another. On the other hand, I don't really care to pass judgment on the path others have chosen. Wouldn't that sort of imply some lingering resentment, or even some elitist sentiment? I was characterizing two different types of groups -- and expressing a preference with hanging out with one over the other. I am not sure where the elitism or resentment is in that. I prefer to hang with rational people over tea-partiers (at least a subset that i have seen) I certainly don't resent the tea partiers -- in the sense of envy or they have something I want. As far as elitism, I don't see how a personal preference for being with one group is elitist -- any more than someone who likes to watch films compared to another group that likes to hack strongly secured data centers. Is the film buff elitist? Can I feel comfortable and at home with film buffs, computer hackers and tea partiers? I would treat all with respect. Probably enjoy a lot of people in all the groups. That doesn't change my preference for hanging more with one. For example I enjoy the company of a number of people. Some, to pick activities that I would not run to sign up for, go hunting, some go to mass, some go to a lot of baseball games. Not my cup of tea. It doesn't mean I feel superior to them. Elitism is an interesting theme though. Many into politics seem elitist to me. I would venture to say many of the progressives on this forum feel some elitism over conservative republicans. I haven't sense much mutual respect here or in the larger political realm. Do people living in upscale neighborhoods feel elitist compared to working class neighborhoods? Gang neighborhoods? The homeless shelter? Some appear to me to be so. Others not. On this forum there appears to be a lot of one-upmanship. Is that elitism? And when did elite become a dirty word? I consider (subsets at least) of highly learned, talented, successful people, with good hearts and minds, as an elite group. As in top notch. But elitism in terms of having a superiority complex seems counter to unity, to liberation, to awakening. How can you feel haughty and superior to your neighbor -- or fellow poster -- and expect to be at one with the universe? Its not going to happen. People who feel a growing sense of underlying oneness and unity with all people are friendlier with all people. And feeling a sense of oneness with nature makes one want to protect nature from abuse -- because one is a part of it, we all breath the same breath, nature included, we of are of the same sap so to speak.
