[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Thanks for the update, Doug. Sounds like it all depends on the strength of the troika in moderating the dictatorial one. Fingers crossed... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ollie wrote before: Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? Something that we have learned about asocial narcissism in our long discussions of narcissism on FFL is that an effective way for organizations to protect their existence is to set up metrics and evaluate narcissistic leadership on the merits of actual performance. The dysfunction of the narcissist will usually trip and fall down in actual performance. A lot is hanging in the balance being actively weighed these next few weeks within TM. It is not clear which way the needle will go. Maharishi in planning set in motion a plan for succession well before he passed away. It is 'corporate' in its order with boards and officers that interlock but essentially a theocratic plutocracy in culture from the top. It is about 30 people who effectively own the movement. Some at that level are more effective than others. At the apex are three particularly powerful officers with one of those more powerful than all in a way by force of personality. None of the three can just rule over the others by proclamation, they need and have to bring people along. It will be noteworthy to see if the boards will be able to exercise a will over what needs to be done based on the metrics of the situation. It is not clear that they will. I wrote a memo earlier this month about all this describing the situation to some scholarly groups and journalists who study groups like ours. I am busy farming right now but I'll drag that up and post a form of that here for interested people to see after a bit. This next month will be of interest for those in all of TM as to how it will go. There is quite a lot in play right now. Stay tuned, -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yeah, a lot of people still hung up on who Maharishi was or wasn't. It doesn't matter, imo. There is a technique to do, and that's it. No beliefs necessary. A small group will insist otherwise, both pro and con, but it is incorrect. Nothing, except the mantra imparted is part of the basic program. The rest is right here, the outward stroke, and what we choose to do with it, is entirely up to us, per TM doctrine. It is a lot simpler than many have made it out to be. Some people continue to need a parent figure once they are adults, playing a push me, pull me game with an authority figure like Maharishi, instead of just growing up. I don't have an answer why. Not my deal. So it would be great if the vast amount of useful knowledge Maharishi brought out, as a teacher, could be separated from this pseudo-deification or demonization of the man, and all the problems that come with it. I am sure it will happen with time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. I don't believe you, or you don't get out much. But don't worry I was like it once, I used to think it was the best thing but I was taught to think that. One day I woke up, the Kool-Aid had worn off and I saw it all for what it was, but I always kept one foot in the world and never believed all that unified field crap so I was lucky, it was easy to get back to reality. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. That isn't really the issue, this problem seems to affect a lot of people in the long term TMO regardless of their level of devotion. The point I'm making is it's the complete opposite of the result that we are taught to expect and the opposite of the one the TMO still puts forward in its literature. Remember the book Science of Being? It's all a far cry from the simple mechanics espoused by the reesh in those hallowed pages. The mere suggestion that you thought you needed a shrink was enough to get you drummed out in the old days. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Ollie wrote before: Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? Something that we have learned about asocial narcissism in our long discussions of narcissism on FFL is that an effective way for organizations to protect their existence is to set up metrics and evaluate narcissistic leadership on the merits of actual performance. The dysfunction of the narcissist will usually trip and fall down in actual performance. A lot is hanging in the balance being actively weighed these next few weeks within TM. It is not clear which way the needle will go. Maharishi in planning set in motion a plan for succession well before he passed away. It is 'corporate' in its order with boards and officers that interlock but essentially a theocratic plutocracy in culture from the top. It is about 30 people who effectively own the movement. Some at that level are more effective than others. At the apex are three particularly powerful officers with one of those more powerful than all in a way by force of personality. None of the three can just rule over the others by proclamation, they need and have to bring people along. It will be noteworthy to see if the boards will be able to exercise a will over what needs to be done based on the metrics of the situation. It is not clear that they will. I wrote a memo earlier this month about all this describing the situation to some scholarly groups and journalists who study groups like ours. I am busy farming right now but I'll drag that up and post a form of that here for interested people to see after a bit. This next month will be of interest for those in all of TM as to how it will go. There is quite a lot in play right now. Stay tuned, -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yeah, a lot of people still hung up on who Maharishi was or wasn't. It doesn't matter, imo. There is a technique to do, and that's it. No beliefs necessary. A small group will insist otherwise, both pro and con, but it is incorrect. Nothing, except the mantra imparted is part of the basic program. The rest is right here, the outward stroke, and what we choose to do with it, is entirely up to us, per TM doctrine. It is a lot simpler than many have made it out to be. Some people continue to need a parent figure once they are adults, playing a push me, pull me game with an authority figure like Maharishi, instead of just growing up. I don't have an answer why. Not my deal. So it would be great if the vast amount of useful knowledge Maharishi brought out, as a teacher, could be separated from this pseudo-deification or demonization of the man, and all the problems that come with it. I am sure it will happen with time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. I don't believe you, or you don't get out much. But don't worry I was like it once, I used to think it was the best thing but I was taught to think that. One day I woke up, the Kool-Aid had worn off and I saw it all for what it was, but I always kept one foot in the world and never believed all that unified field crap so I was lucky, it was easy to get back to reality. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. That isn't really the issue, this problem seems to affect a lot of people in the long term TMO regardless of their level of devotion. The point I'm making is it's the complete opposite of the result that we are taught to expect and the opposite of the one the TMO still puts forward in its literature. Remember the book Science of Being? It's all a far cry from the simple mechanics espoused by the reesh in those hallowed pages. The mere suggestion that you thought you needed a shrink was enough to get you drummed out in the old days. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. So how come Marshy ended up surrounded by a bunch of drones who obeyed his
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Ollie, real fair point. There are certainly a lot of cultivated spiritual folks here in TM with their feet on the ground; outwardly successful in life and then also a whole spectrum of others who are not, about like everywhere else. In ways our demographics as meditators are not different. Possibly one could say that effective people have tended to move on or even been driven from the inside of the movement which has left others behind inside by default. Peculiarly so, as it has been such a patronage culture for so long. And yet there are a lot of good and effective people inside hoping and working such that it will survive, possibly endure, and work out well. Yet, I was at a meeting recently about mental health in the meditating community where a number of millennials who grew up in this and who hold a healthy high regard for meditating in their own experience and for the meditating university. They were sharing their experience and pointing out in the discussion that some people with psychological troubles are especially attracted to coming to the university hoping for healing. For healing. This possibility is a little different feature than found in the run of the mill at other universities. Some hopeful parents evidently have proactively sent their kids too for the same reason. The enumerated benefits of meditation would appeal to everyone, even those pre-disposed to mental illnesses looking for healing. Times change. The institutional movement is moving at getting better prepared for this in processes, as you can see in the adjoining mental health guideline around mental illness treatment. -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. This is an excellent post and full of useful information and insight. I don't think there would be as many disgruntled and dispirited and angry ex-meditators if you had been in charge!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? I guess I'm the naive one or maybe it was so long ago that I was involved in TM and being around a bunch of meditators that I don't remember feeling this; but I don't think I ever believed it could solve all the personality quirks and hangups of people. You must never have read Marshy's book, The Science of Being and Art of Living. It's the TM bible but I'm sure it's obvious to all by now - or should be - that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. I told you, I don't believe everything someone tells me or that I read in a book. That's just me, and so I was spared much disappointment later when much of what MMY said or the Movement touted was not true. I did believe that the practice of TM was good for me, that was about it. Everything else I figured would have been gravy if it proved to pan out. It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. Did most people you worked with really think they were in accord with natural law?! So, they thought they were enlightened or something? Or did they just think because they meditated they were suddenly part of some elite club of do gooders? Both. And then some. Just like a lot of people hereAre you sure you attended a movement facility? Yup, but I kept my wits about me and didn't put all my spiritual eggs in one basket nor did I devote every day of every minute to following MMY as a guru or dedicating my life to "spreading the news".
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Thanks - ha-ha, the drill sergeant. Nothing like being yourself, is there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. This is an excellent post and full of useful information and insight. I don't think there would be as many disgruntled and dispirited and angry ex-meditators if you had been in charge!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Yeah, a lot of people still hung up on who Maharishi was or wasn't. It doesn't matter, imo. There is a technique to do, and that's it. No beliefs necessary. A small group will insist otherwise, both pro and con, but it is incorrect. Nothing, except the mantra imparted is part of the basic program. The rest is right here, the outward stroke, and what we choose to do with it, is entirely up to us, per TM doctrine. It is a lot simpler than many have made it out to be. Some people continue to need a parent figure once they are adults, playing a push me, pull me game with an authority figure like Maharishi, instead of just growing up. I don't have an answer why. Not my deal. So it would be great if the vast amount of useful knowledge Maharishi brought out, as a teacher, could be separated from this pseudo-deification or demonization of the man, and all the problems that come with it. I am sure it will happen with time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. I don't believe you, or you don't get out much. But don't worry I was like it once, I used to think it was the best thing but I was taught to think that. One day I woke up, the Kool-Aid had worn off and I saw it all for what it was, but I always kept one foot in the world and never believed all that unified field crap so I was lucky, it was easy to get back to reality. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. That isn't really the issue, this problem seems to affect a lot of people in the long term TMO regardless of their level of devotion. The point I'm making is it's the complete opposite of the result that we are taught to expect and the opposite of the one the TMO still puts forward in its literature. Remember the book Science of Being? It's all a far cry from the simple mechanics espoused by the reesh in those hallowed pages. The mere suggestion that you thought you needed a shrink was enough to get you drummed out in the old days. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. So how come Marshy ended up surrounded by a bunch of drones who obeyed his diktats about what to wear, what length to have their hair, who to marry, who not to marry etc without question? Probably because that's the way he liked it, an audience of people who think he's a supreme being who speaks the absolute truth is going to be better at coughing up donations than someone simply teaching yoga at the village hall. Marshy sold the whole package, diet, astrology, health "care", world peace. It was damn clever and they still come up with new "vedic" ideas to extract cash from you if you aren't careful. The US yagya program takes $5 million per annum just for the routine monthly prayers, let alone the "specials" people buy because they swallowed the pseudo-scientific crap the TMO dish out about cosmic consciousness and string theory. If TM made you your own person why so many brainwashed feebs wandering about thinking he was speaking the ultimate truth about everything because he was perfectly in accord with some mythical Natural Law? That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, I agree that Marshy was wrong about pretty much everything, but you're giving him a free pass in ignoring his teaching in favour of re-interpreting everything on his behalf. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. I don't believe you, or you don't get out much. But don't worry I was like it once, I used to think it was the best thing but I was taught to think that. One day I woke up, the Kool-Aid had worn off and I saw it all for what it was, but I always kept one foot in the world and never believed all that unified field crap so I was lucky, it was easy to get back to reality. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. That isn't really the issue, this problem seems to affect a lot of people in the long term TMO regardless of their level of devotion. The point I'm making is it's the complete opposite of the result that we are taught to expect and the opposite of the one the TMO still puts forward in its literature. Remember the book Science of Being? It's all a far cry from the simple mechanics espoused by the reesh in those hallowed pages. The mere suggestion that you thought you needed a shrink was enough to get you drummed out in the old days. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. So how come Marshy ended up surrounded by a bunch of drones who obeyed his diktats about what to wear, what length to have their hair, who to marry, who not to marry etc without question? Probably because that's the way he liked it, an audience of people who think he's a supreme being who speaks the absolute truth is going to be better at coughing up donations than someone simply teaching yoga at the village hall. Marshy sold the whole package, diet, astrology, health "care", world peace. It was damn clever and they still come up with new "vedic" ideas to extract cash from you if you aren't careful. The US yagya program takes $5 million per annum just for the routine monthly prayers, let alone the "specials" people buy because they swallowed the pseudo-scientific crap the TMO dish out about cosmic consciousness and string theory. If TM made you your own person why so many brainwashed feebs wandering about thinking he was speaking the ultimate truth about everything because he was perfectly in accord with some mythical Natural Law? That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, I agree that Marshy was wrong about pretty much everything, but you're giving him a free pass in ignoring his teaching in favour of re-interpreting everything on his behalf. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real questi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? I guess I'm the naive one or maybe it was so long ago that I was involved in TM and being around a bunch of meditators that I don't remember feeling this; but I don't think I ever believed it could solve all the personality quirks and hangups of people. You must never have read Marshy's book, The Science of Being and Art of Living. It's the TM bible but I'm sure it's obvious to all by now - or should be - that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. Did most people you worked with really think they were in accord with natural law?! So, they thought they were enlightened or something? Or did they just think because they meditated they were suddenly part of some elite club of do gooders? Both. And then some. Just like a lot of people hereAre you sure you attended a movement facility?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
The problem with TM is that if you want something more then TM isn't it. It's essentially "yoga lite". And that may work well for a lot of people as a relaxation technique. There are some very powerful things in yoga and some things that are overlooked by TM. Also from the theory of mantra shastra, TM will only work for some people but not all. Generally personal teachers have a method of ascertaining what kind of mantra a person should be practicing. The process can be as simple as what is often used in ayurveda. TM also priced itself out of the market and never adapted to the changes in societal lifestyles. The seven steps worked well in the mid 20th century but as time moved on it needed to be revised probably to weekend meetings workshop style which other organizations have done. On 01/26/2016 07:24 AM, olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. The sooner you all get out of the idea that meditation - of any sort - makes your thoughts special in some way the sooner it will start working like a proper organisation with people holding themselves responsible for their actions rather than everyone trying to rationalise why the leaders are hopeless when Marshy - in his infinite wisdom - chose them for us. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of e
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. This is an excellent post and full of useful information and insight. I don't think there would be as many disgruntled and dispirited and angry ex-meditators if you had been in charge!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
I don’t see the problem as anything to do with TM or its instruction, nor have I encountered anyone doing the program along with a normal career and family life who has encountered any problems. The issue seems to be those who have forsaken everything, in order to chase enlightenment by copying Maharishi. Nature does not operate in this way, a dog doesn’t suddenly decide to become a cat, so I am not sure where anyone got the idea that living as faux-Indians and meditating much more than is healthy, leads to salvation. TM was not introduced as any sort of a lifestyle change. It was always meant as an enhancement, not the be all and end all of our existence. The other thing those in the movement seem to have missed is that Maharishi never set himself up as a personal guru to anyone. As the founder of TM, some people made an association with Maharishi that to emulate what he did and said would gain the goal more quickly. But that isn’t consistent about what even he said about TM, that it makes you your own person, by eliminating stress. That being the case, we can expect to face greater opportunities, and a more dynamic life, than without TM. All that deep rest has to emerge somewhere. It is also a reasonable expectation that some of us will need therapy to understand and deal with these changes. Maharishi could not help with that, because it was outside of his personal and cultural context. The error was in assuming that his choice was the right one, for the West. It wasn’t. Yes, any dedicated spiritual pursuit enlarges our world for us, and it is foolish to think that we can simply follow a template already laid out by someone else, to gain eternal peace and fulfillment. TM is an amazing technique, with far more to offer than most realize. But it takes us working with ourselves, and perhaps some outside assistance, to integrate it. Given its mechanical nature, eliminating stress and opening us to ourselves, there is a lot to integrate. So TM will bring up the elements that may be causing anger, though it is the practitioner’s responsibility to do something about it, without the assumption that it is someone else’s fault, or by trying to meditate it away. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. The sooner you all get out of the idea that meditation - of any sort - makes your thoughts special in some way the sooner it will start working like a proper organisation with people holding themselves responsible for their actions rather than everyone trying to rationalise why the leaders are hopeless when Marshy - in his infinite wisdom - chose them for us. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Glad to hear it - Thank you for your efforts. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Jeez Ollie, that is an extremely comprehensive comment and perceptive. Thanks for noticing. It is all a terribly interesting problem for those of us who live here. There is quite a lot in play right now. The nitty-gritty of it is privileged right now in a lot of work with and between people but,, The next month or so is going to be real interesting to see how it breaks. Best Regards from Meditating Fairfield, -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below it is about relational balance. I know someone who knows Donald. The Trump is full compulsive obsessive. Not just a little but real. The person says that you don’t want Trump running the country. Where would US citizens go in to exile whence an evident nut like Trump could come in to disruption and control of our lives? The twentieth century had plenty of examples to draw on of that happening. I am looking for balance in leadership. A good human being. As part of the Iowa caucus cycle I have seen all three of the democratic candidates and I am fine with either of them from this standpoint of reasonable balance and self control. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Anne , are you in a position to criticize Trump's negotiating skills? If you are , I think the New York Times would love to have an editorial from you, the National Review also! Sure I am and so are you. Just watch him. He may have pushed and bullied his way around the corporate world but these tactics don't work as the leader of a country. My reasons for thinking this are below in my initial post. It doesn't take much of a brain to extrapolate from all of his bluster from the podium that his way or the highway can only end in war and disaster. Perhaps he is all hot air and were he to actually assume the office of the President of the US he will turn out to be a contemplative, sane, rational, balanced human being but from all evidence from the stump he appears exactly the opposite. It is precisely because his techniques have worked in his (corporate) world so far that he is stupid enough to think they will work in the different context in his role as President (although he will never assume office). I heard him say earlier on that he will hire the best negotiators in the world as his advisors even though they are "harrible, harrible human beings". Does this sound like a good idea to you? I grew up in a family where the patriarch (my father) was one of the most powerful and influential CEO's in the world. He was brave, smart, fair, decent and yet no push over. I grew up around this. I know that no matter how tough and how big you think you are you have to combine it with a balance that includes empathy, heart, wisdom and depth and to understand and acknowledge your own fallibility and weaknesses. In other words, you have to act like a human being. It is only then that you command true respect instead of generating rancor, resistance and resentment by others who you need to "deal" with. From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sen
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? I guess I'm the naive one or maybe it was so long ago that I was involved in TM and being around a bunch of meditators that I don't remember feeling this; but I don't think I ever believed it could solve all the personality quirks and hangups of people. Certainly in my experience people were just people at MIU and I didn't look at any of them with stars in my eyes or did I think they should be exhibiting perfect behavior. I think I probably thought some of the higher level teachers might show me something other than the usual human foibles in case they were close to enlightenment or something but there wasn't a soul at MIU, either faculty, student or administrator who I expected to be operating under some laws of perfection. I guess I missed the boat on that one or had too much common sense flowing through my veins. See, this is why I never was drawn to MMY per se or felt the need to remain in the Movement or become a teacher. I just figured if the technique could help me physiologically and possibly open up new worlds of consciousness to me then great. Otherwise, it was all just so much crystal, rudraksha beads and cashmere from The Crest Jewel. It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. Did most people you worked with really think they were in accord with natural law?! So, they thought they were enlightened or something? Or did they just think because they meditated they were suddenly part of some elite club of do gooders? The sooner you all get out of the idea that meditation - of any sort - makes your thoughts special in some way the sooner it will start working like a proper organisation with people holding themselves responsible for their actions rather than everyone trying to rationalise why the leaders are hopeless when Marshy - in his infinite wisdom - chose them for us. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. I guess the real question is: Why doesn't TM - if it has so much to offer - not clear up people's anger problems? It's hardly a rare thing, my overriding memories of working in the TMO was of highly stressed, angry and generally dysfunctional people. Not all of them by any means, but enough to make a casual observer wonder what was going on. And what seemed to be going on was that these people thought they were doing fine because they were On The Program and thus their thoughts were in perfect accord with Natural Law. Therefore any problems are with other people. The sooner you all get out of the idea that meditation - of any sort - makes your thoughts special in some way the sooner it will start working like a proper organisation with people holding themselves responsible for their actions rather than everyone trying to rationalise why the leaders are hopeless when Marshy - in his infinite wisdom - chose them for us. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below it is about relational balance. I know someone who knows Donald. The Trump is full compulsive obsessive. Not just a little but real. The person says that you don’t want Trump running the country. Where would US citizens go in to exile whence an evident nut like Trump could come in to disruption and control of our lives? The twentieth century had plenty of examples to draw on of that happening. I am looking for balance in leadership. A good human being. As part of the Iowa caucus cycle I have seen all three of the democratic candidates and I am fine with either of them from this standpoint of reasonable balance and self control. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Anne , are you in a position to criticize Trump's negotiating skills? If you are , I think the New York Times would love to have an editorial from you, the National Review also! Sure I am and so are you. Just watch him. He may have pushed and bullied his way around the corporate world but these tactics don't work as the leader of a country. My reasons for thinking this are below in my initial post. It doesn't take much of a brain to extrapolate from all of his bluster from the podium that his way or the highway can only end in war and disaster. Perhaps he is all hot air and were he to actually assume the office of the President of the US he will turn out to be a contemplative, sane, rational, balanced human being but from all evidence from the stump he appears exactly the opposite. It is precisely because his techniques have worked in his (corporate) world so far that he is stupid enough to think they will work in the different context in his role as President (although he will never assume office). I heard him say earlier on that he will hire the best negotiators in the world as his advisors even though they are "harrible, harrible human beings". Does this sound like a good idea to you? I grew up in a family where the patriarch (my father) was one of the most powerful and influential CEO's in the world. He was brave, smart, fair, decent and yet no push over. I grew up around this. I know that no matter how tough and how big you think you are you have to combine
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
Jeez Ollie, that is an extremely comprehensive comment and perceptive. Thanks for noticing. It is all a terribly interesting problem for those of us who live here. There is quite a lot in play right now. The nitty-gritty of it is privileged right now in a lot of work with and between people but,, The next month or so is going to be real interesting to see how it breaks. Best Regards from Meditating Fairfield, -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below it is about relational balance. I know someone who knows Donald. The Trump is full compulsive obsessive. Not just a little but real. The person says that you don’t want Trump running the country. Where would US citizens go in to exile whence an evident nut like Trump could come in to disruption and control of our lives? The twentieth century had plenty of examples to draw on of that happening. I am looking for balance in leadership. A good human being. As part of the Iowa caucus cycle I have seen all three of the democratic candidates and I am fine with either of them from this standpoint of reasonable balance and self control. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Anne , are you in a position to criticize Trump's negotiating skills? If you are , I think the New York Times would love to have an editorial from you, the National Review also! Sure I am and so are you. Just watch him. He may have pushed and bullied his way around the corporate world but these tactics don't work as the leader of a country. My reasons for thinking this are below in my initial post. It doesn't take much of a brain to extrapolate from all of his bluster from the podium that his way or the highway can only end in war and disaster. Perhaps he is all hot air and were he to actually assume the office of the President of the US he will turn out to be a contemplative, sane, rational, balanced human being but from all evidence from the stump he appears exactly the opposite. It is precisely because his techniques have worked in his (corporate) world so far that he is stupid enough to think they will work in the different context in his role as President (although he will never assume office). I heard him say earlier on that he will hire the best negotiators in the world as his advisors even though they are "harrible, harrible human beings". Does this sound like a good idea to you? I grew up in a family where the patriarch (my father) was one of the most powerful and influential CEO's in the world. He was brave, smart, fair, decent and yet no push over. I grew up around this. I know that no matter how tough and how big you think you are you have to combine it with a balance that includes empathy, heart, wisdom and depth and to understand and acknowledge your own fallibility and weaknesses. In other words, you have to act like a human being. It is only then that you command true respect instead of generating rancor, resistance and resentment by others who you need to "deal" with. From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Establishment Conservatives
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
What you mention about someone with anger issues mucking up the whole meditating community, is an odd effect from a technique that has so much to offer. We all know the background of Maharishi not seeing a need for an integration of the study of psychology with the benefits of TM, but this appears to now have resulted in a serious problem wrt the movement's ongoing liveliness. To somehow believe that in the absence of any instruction except, "take it easy, take it as it comes", and the diligent practice of TM, that everything will magically sort itself out mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, and financially, is pretty naive. Add to that the inevitable "cart before the horse" attitude wrt behavior in spiritual environments (faux emulation of "enlightened" living), and you end up with a bunch of emotional powder kegs in the community. Light is essential for seeing the world, but it is the shadows that give everything its reality. Has anyone spoken to this angry person in a clear and direct fashion, about this problem, or is that not possible? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below it is about relational balance. I know someone who knows Donald. The Trump is full compulsive obsessive. Not just a little but real. The person says that you don’t want Trump running the country. Where would US citizens go in to exile whence an evident nut like Trump could come in to disruption and control of our lives? The twentieth century had plenty of examples to draw on of that happening. I am looking for balance in leadership. A good human being. As part of the Iowa caucus cycle I have seen all three of the democratic candidates and I am fine with either of them from this standpoint of reasonable balance and self control. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Anne , are you in a position to criticize Trump's negotiating skills? If you are , I think the New York Times would love to have an editorial from you, the National Review also! Sure I am and so are you. Just watch him. He may have pushed and bullied his way around the corporate world but these tactics don't work as the leader of a country. My reasons for thinking this are below in my initial post. It doesn't take much of a brain to extrapolate from all of his bluster from the podium that his way or the highway can only end in war and disaster. Perhaps he is all hot air and were he to actually assume the office of the President of the US he will turn out to be a contemplative, sane, rational, balanced human being but from all evidence from the stump he appears exactly the opposite. It is precisely because his techniques have worked in his (corporate) world so far that he is stupid enough to think they will work in the different context in his role as President (although he will never assume office). I heard him say earlier on that he will hire the best negotiators in the world as his advisors even though they are "harrible, harrible human beings". Does this sound like a good idea to you? I grew up in a family where the patriarch (my father) was one of the most powerful and influential CEO's in the world. He was brave, smart, fair, decent and yet no push over. I grew up around this. I know that no matter how tough and how big you think you are you have to combine it with a balance that includes empathy, heart, wisdom and depth and to understand and acknowledge your own fallibility and weaknesses. In other words, you have to act like a human being. It is only then that you command true respect instead of generating rancor, resistance and resentment by others who you need to "deal" with. From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Establishment Conservatives Against Trump ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Feste, he's not my ideal candidate either! However, he has just as much qualifications as Obama did , if not more. At least Trump has management, executive and negotiating skills and built his own multi-billion dollar *empire*. All Obama ever did was be a *community organizer*, whatever that is. Whatever his academic achievements were are perceived as being based on affirmative action based. How does an Ame
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Leadership
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Really Great observation, Back_for_more about capable leadership qualities in the abstract. Fine, but add in a derangement or two and you get a nut. Here in the movement we got someone in the middle of leadership of our meditating community group who has ruled with some of those leadership qualities in the abstract except that in character is unable to be magnanimous and is out of balance with serious anger management issues that have completely tied the group up and in effect driven a whole movement off in to exile. As you say below it is about relational balance. I know someone who knows Donald. The Trump is full compulsive obsessive. Not just a little but real. The person says that you don’t want Trump running the country. Thanks for verifying that. Mike seems to doubt it. I have never seen the man in the flesh but I don't think it takes a powerful microscope to be able to dissect the man. He is who he looks like, he can't help it. He seems like someone out of control and the more power he thinks he is gaining the worse it gets. He is the closest thing to a dictator the US would have had, up to this point, if her were (and he won't) become President. Where would US citizens go in to exile whence an evident nut like Trump could come in to disruption and control of our lives? The twentieth century had plenty of examples to draw on of that happening. Canada. It is a big country up here and Justin Trudeau is a welcoming kind of guy. ;-) I am looking for balance in leadership. A good human being. As part of the Iowa caucus cycle I have seen all three of the democratic candidates and I am fine with either of them from this standpoint of reasonable balance and self control. Ditto that, however, I am leaning toward the Jewish socialist.
