[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

Good lord, another idiocy from Bhairitu.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/31/2011 10:28 AM, authfriend wrote:
> > You know something? One of the big advantages the Powers
> > That Be have is that conspiracy theorists think they're
> > stupid. The more you underestimate them, the more
> > dangerous they become, because you'll miss the things
> > they do that are more clever than you expect.
> 
> Now that's a real "government knows best" attitude if I ever
> saw one.
> 

Notice that he completely missed the word "dangerous"
in what I wrote.

That's also the paragraph that in another post he
stupidly interpreted as my claiming the gummint is
smarter than we are.

I'll spell it out: What I actually said was that the
gummint isn't as stupid as Bhairitu thinks it is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[yifuxero]

http://artfangs.com/NewFiles/IllusLove.html

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I read Rory's account several years ago and posted 
> > comments on Usenet - I am one of his biggest fans - a 
> > very good read! 
> >
> Thanks! And I greatly enjoyed something you wrote about Awareness recently -- 
> being Aware of Awareness, perhaps? You really put it beautifully, though I 
> cannot recall exactly how you said it just now :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:

> Yes, I read Rory's account several years ago and posted 
> comments on Usenet - I am one of his biggest fans - a 
> very good read! 
>
Thanks! And I greatly enjoyed something you wrote about Awareness recently -- 
being Aware of Awareness, perhaps? You really put it beautifully, though I 
cannot recall exactly how you said it just now :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[mleroygoffiv]

> "RoryGoff"  wrote:

 * * * No. I just have no interest in rehashing my "story" at the moment. If 
you really care, you can read some of it (up to about 1990) here: 
http://rorygoff.com/open/rory-goff-a-spiritual-autobiography/
 
 >blusc0ut  wrote:
>
 
> Thanks Rory, nice and inspiring account. (You biography and experiences, 
> lined up as a series of initiations, reminds me very much of a friend I had, 
> who finally founded his own movement called 'Vortex Healing' 
> http://www.vortexhealing.com/connections.html)

* * * My pleasure, and thank you for the link. Thank you too for the "Unity" 
video, of which I saw and enjoyed more than half before being pulled 
elsewhere Yes, I can certainly see why my site reminded you of your friend 
-- his appears to have been a very similar unfoldment!
 
> Also nice to see you finally in action 
> http://rorygoff.com/open/store/1101-trailer/ I guess, towards the end, with 
> some more gray, thats about you now, right?
>
* * * Last year, I believe; right. I am thinking about filming some 
particle-work sessions soon, as they might be helpful to more people than are 
being reached currently.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[WillyTex]

> > I just have no interest in rehashing my "story" 
> > at the moment. If you really care, you can read 
> > some of it (up to about 1990) here: 
> >  http://rorygoff.com/open/rory-goff-a-spiritual-autobiography/
> > 
> >
blusc0ut:
> Thanks Rory, nice and inspiring account. (You biography 
> and experiences, lined up as a series of initiations...
>
Yes, I read Rory's account several years ago and posted 
comments on Usenet - I am one of his biggest fans - a 
very good read! 

Subject: Off the Program
Author: Willytex
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: Friday July 18, 2003
http://tinyurl.com/6ksylee

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[blusc0ut]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>

> * * * No. I just have no interest in rehashing my "story" at the moment. If 
> you really care, you can read some of it (up to about 1990) here: 
> http://rorygoff.com/open/rory-goff-a-spiritual-autobiography/
> 

Thanks Rory, nice and inspiring account. (You biography and experiences, lined 
up as a series of initiations, reminds me very much of a friend I had, who 
finally founded his own movement called 'Vortex Healing' 
http://www.vortexhealing.com/connections.html)

Also nice to see you finally in action 
http://rorygoff.com/open/store/1101-trailer/ I guess, towards the end, with 
some more gray, thats about you now, right?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

That is why Judy refers to you as Master of Inadvertent Irony. :-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Say something new.
> > > > > Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> > > > > said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
> > > > 
> > > > An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same old, 
> > > > same old. Not sure how you can stay on that new and 
> > > > exciting edge all the time.
> > > 
> > > Alzheimer?
> > 
> > Good quip, blusc0ut, but actually it's exactly the
> > opposite. The *more* attention and clarity one can
> > bring to life the less boring it is.
> > 
> > I'm often amused by people here who rail against 
> > their "day jobs." It's as if they've created a 
> > demarcation line in their daily lives that says
> > to them, "This part over here (work, my job, stuff
> > like that) is the 'non-spiritual' boring part, and
> > this stuff over here (meditating, going on retreats
> > or 'seeing gurus') is the interesting 'spiritual'
> > part. 
> > 
> > I honestly don't see things that way. There is no
> > difference between focusing intently on a work
> > project, or even cleaning the house, and bringing
> > an equal focus to meditation. Both situations are
> > an opportunity to "Be Here Now." The more you can
> > do that, the more enjoyment there is *in* Now.
> > 
> > It's fascinating that millions spend a fortune on
> > drugs to "make the world go away," whether illegal
> > drugs or over-the-counter ones prescribed by 
> > doctors. Seems to me that they're missing the 
> > whole point. One doesn't grow bored and depressed
> > by life as a *result* of life; one grows bored 
> > and depressed by life as a result of not inter-
> > facing with it completely and totally.
> > 
> > The "Alzheimers" approach is what I would term 
> > the repetition of ideas and dogmas in one's head
> > to create an imaginary buffer between life and
> > oneself, and with a similar result as the real
> > disease of that name. One becomes locked into
> > one's head, and unable to connect with life 
> > itself.
> 
> That said, some people are still boring. 
> 
> :-)  :-)  :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Say something new.
> > > > Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> > > > said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
> > > 
> > > An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same old, 
> > > same old. Not sure how you can stay on that new and 
> > > exciting edge all the time.
> > 
> > Alzheimer?
> 
> Good quip, blusc0ut, but actually it's exactly the
> opposite. The *more* attention and clarity one can
> bring to life the less boring it is.
> 
> I'm often amused by people here who rail against 
> their "day jobs." It's as if they've created a 
> demarcation line in their daily lives that says
> to them, "This part over here (work, my job, stuff
> like that) is the 'non-spiritual' boring part, and
> this stuff over here (meditating, going on retreats
> or 'seeing gurus') is the interesting 'spiritual'
> part. 
> 
> I honestly don't see things that way. There is no
> difference between focusing intently on a work
> project, or even cleaning the house, and bringing
> an equal focus to meditation. Both situations are
> an opportunity to "Be Here Now." The more you can
> do that, the more enjoyment there is *in* Now.
> 
> It's fascinating that millions spend a fortune on
> drugs to "make the world go away," whether illegal
> drugs or over-the-counter ones prescribed by 
> doctors. Seems to me that they're missing the 
> whole point. One doesn't grow bored and depressed
> by life as a *result* of life; one grows bored 
> and depressed by life as a result of not inter-
> facing with it completely and totally.
> 
> The "Alzheimers" approach is what I would term 
> the repetition of ideas and dogmas in one's head
> to create an imaginary buffer between life and
> oneself, and with a similar result as the real
> disease of that name. One becomes locked into
> one's head, and unable to connect with life 
> itself.

That said, some people are still boring. 

:-)  :-)  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
> > > 
> > > Say something new.
> > > Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> > > said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
> > 
> > An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same old, 
> > same old. Not sure how you can stay on that new and 
> > exciting edge all the time.
> 
> Alzheimer?

Good quip, blusc0ut, but actually it's exactly the
opposite. The *more* attention and clarity one can
bring to life the less boring it is.

I'm often amused by people here who rail against 
their "day jobs." It's as if they've created a 
demarcation line in their daily lives that says
to them, "This part over here (work, my job, stuff
like that) is the 'non-spiritual' boring part, and
this stuff over here (meditating, going on retreats
or 'seeing gurus') is the interesting 'spiritual'
part. 

I honestly don't see things that way. There is no
difference between focusing intently on a work
project, or even cleaning the house, and bringing
an equal focus to meditation. Both situations are
an opportunity to "Be Here Now." The more you can
do that, the more enjoyment there is *in* Now.

It's fascinating that millions spend a fortune on
drugs to "make the world go away," whether illegal
drugs or over-the-counter ones prescribed by 
doctors. Seems to me that they're missing the 
whole point. One doesn't grow bored and depressed
by life as a *result* of life; one grows bored 
and depressed by life as a result of not inter-
facing with it completely and totally.

The "Alzheimers" approach is what I would term 
the repetition of ideas and dogmas in one's head
to create an imaginary buffer between life and
oneself, and with a similar result as the real
disease of that name. One becomes locked into
one's head, and unable to connect with life 
itself. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[blusc0ut]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
> Say something new.
> > > Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> > > said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
> 
> An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same old, same old.  Not
> sure how you can stay on that new and exciting edge all the time.

Alzheimer?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
> >
> > * * * Nablusoss, you know I love you like a brother, but try as 
> > you might, you will never out-Turq Turq! He is one of a kind :-)
> 
> Quite, I have started to love him too...

Careful, guys...if you keep this up you're going to
end up on somebody's Enemies List.  :-)

> No pun intended, I see he is putting in efforts today 
> that would have been unherd of only 6 months ago. A little 
> less Judy-hate...

There was never any "Judy hate." Hate is her schtick,
not mine. 

> ...a tint more of his love for film and telling quite 
> interesting and personal short-stories from Holland 
> and his new life there. 
> 
> It's promising indeed !

>From my side, telling such stories and offering up
my opinions on movies are about all I find inter-
esting here these days. I may try every so often to
post on a more philosophical or "spiritual" subject,
as I did with one this week in which I asked whether
anyone here ever felt they gained valuable realiza-
tions from their own mistakes in life. The only 
response to that one, as I remember, was someone using 
it as an opportunity to dump on one of the teachers 
I mentioned in the rap, Chogyam Trungpa.

To paraphrase a movie ("Cool Hand Luke"), "What we 
have here is failure of affinity." :-)

That's all. I have a natural affinity for, and like
to talk with, folks who live in the present and are
constantly challenging their own assumptions and
beliefs. I find no such affinity with those who seem
to draw their inspiration only from memories of the
past and who react with anger or attempts at suppres-
sion to those who challenge the assumptions and 
beliefs they hold dear. 

Curtis and Marek and I get along because -- although
very different in many ways -- we share a love of 
"living in the present." Marek's eloquent writings
about the joys of surfing are some of the most 
spiritual things I've ever read; Curtis' insights
into the nature of humanity (and himself) gained 
while playing music for passersby on the street are
similarly profound in my opinion.

Retreats into a past that tends to grow more glorious
(and less in touch with reality) with every passing 
day don't quite do it for me. I do not deny the TB
Trio (you, JohnR, and shukra) your right to hold 
beliefs that I consider ludicrous, or your tendency
to hold onto them for dear life, as if they *were*
your life. But I find no affinity there.

Similarly, I try these days not to dump on those who
log on to FFL and post nothing but TMO propaganda.
If that's all they've got going for them, and that
is the full extent of their "creative intelligence,"
so be it.

A few on this forum I find so repetitive and predict-
able in the things they say that I have stopped read-
ing the things they say. To do otherwise would be 
like playing a song that I found boring the first time 
I heard it 1000 more times. They're entitled to believe 
whatever gets them through the day, too, but I don't 
have to subject myself to it. :-)

On the whole I agree with Rory -- it's the *diversity*
here that makes it interesting enough to frequent from
time to time. From my point of view as a kind of relig-
ious sociologist, some of what I read makes me roll my
eyes or run to the sink to wash the bad taste out of
them. :-) Other TBisms I just click past the same way
I'd change the radio channel if that same old boring 
song came on. 

The bottom line, Nabby, is that I'm not selling anything.
I work with no teacher and do not recommend any. I am 
a member of no spiritual organization and most likely
will never be again. I'm just an ordinary human being
trying to gain *my* sense of inspiration from the every-
day events of my everyday life. The ability to do just
that was why I started on a spiritual path in the first
place. I was never much interested in being "special"
like some here. Because I'm not. I'm pretty ordinary,
and find in that inspiration, not despair. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

"I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose 
which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just 
one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it."

-Groucho Marx


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
> 
> > * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, 
> > it's too dark to read :-)
> >
> Forgot to source this quote -- it's from the sayings of the great Sri Sri Sri 
> 1008 Groucho Marx-Ji.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[WillyTex]

> > Say something new. Something creative, original, 
> > and that hasn't been said and debated ad nauseum 
> > 100 times before...
> > 
seventhray1:
> An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same 
> old, same old.  Not sure how you can stay on that 
> new and exciting edge all the time.
>
You mean, like being married to a sexy wife, working 
at a great job, supporting a big family, being a 
householder, sending your kids through college, 
and making sure you can retire and still be comfy?

Instead of being a fifty-year-old hippie living for 
the moment out of the trunk of your car on your 
savings in Amsterdam, smoking pot at cafes, watching 
some pirated movies on a 15 inch laptop and chatting 
on Saturday night with online friends on Facebook?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[WillyTex]

turquoiseb:
> That pretty much nails it. Try to imagine what FFL
> would be like if Rick hadn't invented the posting
> limits to deal with her. 
> 
Says the guy with over 25,000 posts over ten years on 
Usenet. LoL!!!

> > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > 
> > > That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple 
> > > of days saying what I wanted to say when I wanted 
> > > to say it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[seventhray1]

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
Say something new.
> > Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> > said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.

An awful lot of life is routine, repetition, same old, same old.  Not
sure how you can stay on that new and exciting edge all the time.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> There's a way to make that happen. Say something new.
> Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
This strikes me as odd.  Are they the "gold" standard that we should
adhere to, or strive towards?  Personally I miss Cliff Rees' posts the
most.  But I would not presume to know what would bring him back to the
table.  Nor, would I want to feel some suble pressure to be creative, or
novel, or witty just to impress him.  God forbid if Iceased to be witty
enough to warrant his continued presence here.
> I read the things they post on other forums, and
> that's what they tend to post, and to respond to. If
> they're not present on Fairfield Life, the reason is
> that it's BORING here for them. Both are creative
> people, and they seek the company of other creative
> people. There are individuals here who consistently
> make 40 to 50 posts a week without once writing an
> original thought. That gets old after a while.
Barry, do you exempt yourself from this category?  I would venture to
say that you are one of the top five posters here over the life span of
this group.
> Another hint might be dropping the idea either that
> anyone would benefit from a "lecture" from you or
> that you have the right to deliver one. Just sayin'.
> Curtis is the quintessence of "We're all bozos on
> this bus," meaning that he sees the people in his
> life as his equals. People who feel equal to those
> around them don't "lecture." Only those who feel
> superior in some way do that.
Maybe you are right, but YOU sure seem to be putting him a pedestal.
> That's why Curtis and I don't "do" gurus any more.
> It's really rare to find one who doesn't talk down
> to people, as if it's in his or her "job description"
> to make these other people more like them. It's like
> seeing the same bad "B" movie over and over, only
> with different actors. What a bore. Same thing when
> it happens on an Internet chat group.
I will say Barry that you sure seem to have the inside bead on Curtis's
thinking.  Good on you for that.  But you are here just like everyone
else.  Posting like everyone else.  Usually a top (in quanity) poster. 
This post sure has a lecture vibe about it.  Are you here just to make
sure that we are boring, and dull, and redundant.  You realize of course
that that is the attribute of an addict.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[seventhray1]

Something in me has changed.  I have become more conciliatory than
confrontational.  There are still many things that can trigger a strong
reaction for me, but in general, I am inclined to try to find common
ground as opposed finding differences.  And on the practical level, I
appreciate hearing the voices that had gone underground here for a
while.  And as Raunchy nicely put it recently, I may not agree with some
of the perspectives, but it is my feeling that they should be able to
express them without ridicule either gross or subtle.   Azgrey seems to
be doing what you see here periodically.  Someone who contributes little
to the dialogue, but feels inclined to let the group know that he has
become disappointed in the level of discourse, and that he may see fit
to post even less than he does.  Seems a little lame to me.

My apologies to Sal, if my grammer or sentence structure isn't up to
snuff.



  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > You are too kind Sunshine Sal.
> > That's nice of you to say.
> > You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> > deportation?
> > I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill.
> > Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> > I miss Marek and Curtis.
> > Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.
> > When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to
> > have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> > to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board.
> > I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> > desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> > my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude"
> > posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> > as a forum of optimists.
> >
> *** My unsolicited lecture on putdowns-masked-as-humor
notwithstanding, I too would be happy to see Curtis -- and Marek as well
-- return here. Although I'm doubtless one of those posters you abhore,
I enjoy the variety of tastes here that has made FFL so unique; too much
of any one flavor dulls the tastebuds: a habituation reminiscent of our
newfound inability to replicate scientific results, perhaps.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 02/02/2011 01:11 PM, RoryGoff wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 02/02/2011 12:24 PM, RoryGoff wrote:
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
 On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
> Right, Jim!
>
 OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?

>>> * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, 
>>> it's too dark to read :-)
>> So I assume your only spiritual experience has been with TM, right?
> * * * No. I just have no interest in rehashing my "story" at the moment. If 
> you really care, you can read some of it (up to about 1990) here: 
> http://rorygoff.com/open/rory-goff-a-spiritual-autobiography/
>
>> Attending astrology symposiums I met people who were true blue to TM but 
>> still enjoyed meeting with people of diverse spiritual backgrounds and were 
>> much broader minded that some of the TB'ers I find here. On those courses we 
>> got some interesting stories from Indian astrologers and tantrics who even 
>> knew MMY.  I also recommend even a short excursion to India can be quite eye 
>> opening (as long as you aren't chaperoned by the
>> TMO).
>>
> * * * I have been to India twice physically, once "unchaperoned," for the 
> summer of 1974 -- although I did end up at MMY's ashram in Rishikesh, I was 
> the only "CP" there. The second time was on the Science and Veda course in 
> New Delhi in 1980-81, when I met MMY and essentially "divorced" the TMO. 
> India was amazingly catalytic, both times, but I currently have no desire to 
> return there "in the flesh."
>
>> What you will find with the "seekers" and "finders" here is "been their, 
>> done that, got the t-shirt or a bunch of them."  So they may not be that
>> interested in babbling on about it. Sounds like someone ought to start a
>> "Maharishi Talk" group or forum so those who wax nostalgic. ;-)
> * * * Thank you; I have been writing on FFL, on and off, since about 2004; I 
> am pretty clear on most of the actors and their various scripts. I am 
> actually having a lot of fun here just as it is, and just as I am. ;-)

I have never found dissecting enlightenment all that interesting.  Just 
enjoying it and reading about the experiences of other yogis, saints as 
well as meeting some (which in some cases were ordinary Indian villages 
with their third eye opened).  Some people seem to want to wax 
intellectually about it for eternity.   But as you know when the 
experience bites you in the butt it bite you. ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> >
> > > You are just a bore who is repeating himself Rory. Inside of a dog ? Oh 
> > > please, be more creative !
> >
> * * * Nablusoss, you know I love you like a brother, but try as you might, 
> you will never out-Turq Turq! He is one of a kind :-)


Quite, I have started to love him too, like you, by your and Jim's inspiration. 
No pun intended, I see he is putting in efforts today that would have been 
unherd of only 6 months ago. A little less Judy-hate, a tint more of his love 
for film and telling quite interesting and personal short-stories from Holland 
and his new life there. 

It's promising indeed !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 02/02/2011 12:24 PM, RoryGoff wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
> >>> Right, Jim!
> >>>
> >> OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?
> >>
> > * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, 
> > it's too dark to read :-)
> 
> So I assume your only spiritual experience has been with TM, right?  

* * * No. I just have no interest in rehashing my "story" at the moment. If you 
really care, you can read some of it (up to about 1990) here: 
http://rorygoff.com/open/rory-goff-a-spiritual-autobiography/

> Attending astrology symposiums I met people who were true blue to TM but 
> still enjoyed meeting with people of diverse spiritual backgrounds and were 
> much broader minded that some of the TB'ers I find here. On those courses we 
> got some interesting stories from Indian astrologers and tantrics who even 
> knew MMY.  I also recommend even a short excursion to India can be quite eye 
> opening (as long as you aren't chaperoned by the 
> TMO).
>
* * * I have been to India twice physically, once "unchaperoned," for the 
summer of 1974 -- although I did end up at MMY's ashram in Rishikesh, I was the 
only "CP" there. The second time was on the Science and Veda course in New 
Delhi in 1980-81, when I met MMY and essentially "divorced" the TMO. India was 
amazingly catalytic, both times, but I currently have no desire to return there 
"in the flesh." 

> What you will find with the "seekers" and "finders" here is "been their, done 
> that, got the t-shirt or a bunch of them."  So they may not be that 
> interested in babbling on about it. Sounds like someone ought to start a 
> "Maharishi Talk" group or forum so those who wax nostalgic. ;-)

* * * Thank you; I have been writing on FFL, on and off, since about 2004; I am 
pretty clear on most of the actors and their various scripts. I am actually 
having a lot of fun here just as it is, and just as I am. ;-)

Rory Hijacked this thread Was Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:42 PM, RoryGoff  wrote:

>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> > * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
> it's too dark to read :-)
> >
> Forgot to source this quote -- it's from the sayings of the great Sri Sri
> Sri 1008 Groucho Marx-Ji.
>
>
When you hijack a tread as Rory has done, please change the subject.

Thank you.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 02/02/2011 12:24 PM, RoryGoff wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
>>> Right, Jim!
>>>
>> OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?
>>
> * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's 
> too dark to read :-)

So I assume your only spiritual experience has been with TM, right?  
Attending astrology symposiums I met people who were true blue to TM but 
still enjoyed meeting with people of diverse spiritual backgrounds and 
were much broader minded that some of the TB'ers I find here. On those 
courses we got some interesting stories from Indian astrologers and 
tantrics who even knew MMY.  I also recommend even a short excursion to 
India can be quite eye opening (as long as you aren't chaperoned by the 
TMO).

What you will find with the "seekers" and "finders" here is "been their, 
done that, got the t-shirt or a bunch of them."  So they may not be that 
interested in babbling on about it. Sounds like someone ought to start a 
"Maharishi Talk" group or forum so those who wax nostalgic. ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:

> * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's 
> too dark to read :-)
>
Forgot to source this quote -- it's from the sayings of the great Sri Sri Sri 
1008 Groucho Marx-Ji.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> > You are just a bore who is repeating himself Rory. Inside of a dog ? Oh 
> > please, be more creative !
>
* * * Nablusoss, you know I love you like a brother, but try as you might, you 
will never out-Turq Turq! He is one of a kind :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
> > > Right, Jim!
> >> 
> > OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?
> >
> 
> * * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's 
> too dark to read :-)



You are just a bore who is repeating himself Rory. Inside of a dog ? Oh please, 
be more creative !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
> > Right, Jim!
>> 
> OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?
>

* * * Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's 
too dark to read :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> 
> Rory wrote:
> 
> >> > * * * This post was primarily intended for those of Us who might feel 
> >> > they have a problem with one of Us being angry, boring, pedantic, 
> >> > nauseating, a liar, ignorant, suffering, etc. etc., and would like to 
> >> > change that "other's" behavior so that *they* will feel more comfortable 
> >> > -- the classic stance of the suffering addict in Us :-)
> 
> < wrote:
> 
> > **pretzel logic?! - lol
> 
> * * * Yes! Exactly! I basically type this stuff only to meet and love more of 
> myself, to bring up hitherto-unconscious resistances in me, for me to become 
> aware of, love, and integrate! I find FFL works beautifully for that :-)
> 
>  > > > It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
> reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't 
> stop me from doing it!
> 
> 
> 
> Jim wrote: **"deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti" - what is the 
> relationship to Vishnu here, please?
> > > 
> Rory wrote: * * * What is the relationship to Vishnu? Beats me. I was simply 
> using a Spirit-Matter (or -Body) duality, with the I AM as Soul in the middle 
> of the two. We could say that these are the three metagunas, with Shiva being 
> Spirit or infinite expansion into Ecstasy, and Vishnu/Indra being Matter or 
> infinite contraction into Love, and Brahma being the I AM or the 
> consciousness-balance of Light, but it's just a model. Each end wraps into 
> and embraces the other, if we go far enough into infinity in any direction. 
> None of it is really Us, anyway, as we are simply the Great Mystery, it's 
> only a perpective rendering of our body-of-manifestation from one point of 
> view :-)
> 
> Jim wrote: **"Vishnu/Indra being Matter or infinite contraction into Love,"
> > Thanks, this is what I was looking for, and the contrasting dynamic of 
> > Shiva is helpful too. Personally I was primarily exposed to Shiva's energy 
> > for years (association with Brahmananda Saraswati), and then out of the 
> > blue kind of recently, Vishnu - both as "meta-gunas". (FFL Disclaimer: 
> > conceptual only, its all about me, blah, blah, blah.) :-) 
> > >  
> * * * You're most welcome. Yes! Exactly -- "it's all about me, blah, blah, 
> blah" -- *lol* Thus we speak, eternally :-)



Yes you two old characters are such bores, always speaking of mechanics of 
consciousness ! 

Much like these two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqPcO0b0Jck

Jim and Rory; shut up your face !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0  wrote:
>
> This reminds me of a quote I heard somewhere, sometime that forever changed 
> the way I view boredom. I don't remember if it was a movie, book, magazine or 
> what, but the message was a clear and inescapable inducement to 
> self-examination:
> 
> "Only the boring are bored."
> 
> I like your added twist on it.
>
* * * Wow! Your quote sums it up far more succinctly than I did; many thanks, 
hermandan0! I will remember that one :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 02/02/2011 09:24 AM, RoryGoff wrote:
> Right, Jim!
>
> This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and finders 
> of truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food or politics, 
> though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. Since this is 
> primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will cprobably ontinue to 
> focus on sharing those aspects of truth and liberation I find most 
> interesting at the moment. Sometimes that may look like lecturing; if you 
> don't like my thoughts, please feel free not to read them. It looks to me as 
> if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own reflections -- I find 
> that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't stop me from doing it!
>

OK, but what is your spiritual background outside of TM?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

Rory wrote:

>> > * * * This post was primarily intended for those of Us who might feel they 
>> > have a problem with one of Us being angry, boring, pedantic, nauseating, a 
>> > liar, ignorant, suffering, etc. etc., and would like to change that 
>> > "other's" behavior so that *they* will feel more comfortable -- the 
>> > classic stance of the suffering addict in Us :-)

< wrote:

> **pretzel logic?! - lol

* * * Yes! Exactly! I basically type this stuff only to meet and love more of 
myself, to bring up hitherto-unconscious resistances in me, for me to become 
aware of, love, and integrate! I find FFL works beautifully for that :-)

 > > > It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
 > > > reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it 
 > > > doesn't stop me from doing it!



Jim wrote: **"deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti" - what is the 
relationship to Vishnu here, please?
> > 
Rory wrote: * * * What is the relationship to Vishnu? Beats me. I was simply 
using a Spirit-Matter (or -Body) duality, with the I AM as Soul in the middle 
of the two. We could say that these are the three metagunas, with Shiva being 
Spirit or infinite expansion into Ecstasy, and Vishnu/Indra being Matter or 
infinite contraction into Love, and Brahma being the I AM or the 
consciousness-balance of Light, but it's just a model. Each end wraps into and 
embraces the other, if we go far enough into infinity in any direction. None of 
it is really Us, anyway, as we are simply the Great Mystery, it's only a 
perpective rendering of our body-of-manifestation from one point of view :-)

Jim wrote: **"Vishnu/Indra being Matter or infinite contraction into Love,"
> Thanks, this is what I was looking for, and the contrasting dynamic of Shiva 
> is helpful too. Personally I was primarily exposed to Shiva's energy for 
> years (association with Brahmananda Saraswati), and then out of the blue kind 
> of recently, Vishnu - both as "meta-gunas". (FFL Disclaimer: conceptual only, 
> its all about me, blah, blah, blah.) :-) 
> >  
* * * You're most welcome. Yes! Exactly -- "it's all about me, blah, blah, 
blah" -- *lol* Thus we speak, eternally :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[hermandan0]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:

> 
> * * * Personally, I generally find boredom to be a function of my own failure 
> to see what's really going on in any given moment; the boredom is always with 
> my own stories or interpretation of the world. IOW boredom is a function of 
> my own lack of creativity, not anyone else's.
> 
>  

This reminds me of a quote I heard somewhere, sometime that forever changed the 
way I view boredom. I don't remember if it was a movie, book, magazine or what, 
but the message was a clear and inescapable inducement to self-examination:

"Only the boring are bored."

I like your added twist on it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

Yeah, thanks - I enjoy the sandbox! Responses below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mleroygoffiv"  wrote:
>
> Hey Jim! Many thanks, fun dialogue! My * * * responses below...
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rory! responses below:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Right, Jim!
> > > 
> > > This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and 
> > > finders of truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food 
> > > or politics, though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. 
> > 
> > **Yes of course.
> > 
> > Since this is primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will 
> > *probably* continue to focus on sharing those aspects of truth and 
> > liberation I find most interesting at the moment. Sometimes that may look 
> > like lecturing; if so and that causes you pain, may I suggest that you 
> > integrate (become aware of) your inner lecturer; or if you don't like my 
> > thoughts, please feel free not to read them. 
> > 
> > **What are you talking about? 
> 
> * * * This post was primarily intended for those of Us who might feel they 
> have a problem with one of Us being angry, boring, pedantic, nauseating, a 
> liar, ignorant, suffering, etc. etc., and would like to change that "other's" 
> behavior so that *they* will feel more comfortable -- the classic stance of 
> the suffering addict in Us :-)

**pretzel logic?! - lol
>  
> > It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
> > reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't 
> > stop me from doing it!
> > 
> > **Absolutely! One of my favorite and most challenging activities!
> > > 
> > > Sadness, boredom, anger, shame, guilt, and even ignorance itself are all 
> > > in the perceiver, the one who feels the sadness, boredom, anger, and so 
> > > on. They are not the "fault" of the world or anyone "out there" -- they 
> > > just ARE, and they always will be; they are eternal parts of Us. I find 
> > > personally that they are not a problem if we do not resist them, but 
> > > simply allow them to BE wherever
> > > they wish to BE within our body.
> > 
> > **Duality along with Dharma lovingly co-exists with Unity. Duality within 
> > Unity, relaxing into a greater Unity that encompasses both - perhaps that 
> > is Brahman? I don't know what you would call it. 
> 
> * * * I don't know what to call it either, except Us :-)

**Yeah, that works!
>  
> > **Duality and Unity, as a subset of a greater whole, each vying for the 
> > greatest love and attention from us, simultaneously. Always inclusive vs. 
> > exclusive. Like a fractal, continually dividing itself into an ever 
> > expanding, unified wholeness.
> > 
> * * * Yes!
> 
> > **Even the fiercest emotions are experienced in that light, and are  
> > absolutely loved. I think we are saying the same thing - lol.
> > 
> 
> * * * YES! Absolutely! :-D
> 
> > > As Blu pointed out, sometimes that may pop us out of the arena of 
> > > suffering into a more spacious one, so we see the larger context -- but 
> > > sometimes it may pop us deeper into the arena, so that we find the 
> > > "suffering" is actually made up of particles of bliss, or love, or light. 
> > > Either way, deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti, we have broken 
> > > the deadlock of bondage or identification which was causing the suffering.
> > 
> > **"deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti" - what is the relationship 
> > to Vishnu here, please?
> 
> * * * What is the relationship to Vishnu? Beats me. I was simply using a 
> Spirit-Matter (or -Body) duality, with the I AM as Soul in the middle of the 
> two. We could say that these are the three metagunas, with Shiva being Spirit 
> or infinite expansion into Ecstasy, and Vishnu/Indra being Matter or infinite 
> contraction into Love, and Brahma being the I AM or the consciousness-balance 
> of Light, but it's just a model. Each end wraps into and embraces the other, 
> if we go far enough into infinity in any direction. None of it is really Us, 
> anyway, as we are simply the Great Mystery, it's only a perpective rendering 
> of our body-of-manifestation from one point of view :-)

**"Vishnu/Indra being Matter or infinite contraction into Love,"
Thanks, this is what I was looking for, and the contrasting dynamic of Shiva is 
helpful too. Personally I was primarily exposed to Shiva's energy for years 
(association with Brahmananda Saraswati), and then out of the blue kind of 
recently, Vishnu - both as "meta-gunas". (FFL Disclaimer: conceptual only, its 
all about me, blah, blah, blah.) :-) 
>  
> > Thanks :-)
> > > 
> * * * My pleasure! :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[mleroygoffiv]

Hey Jim! Many thanks, fun dialogue! My * * * responses below...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Hi Rory! responses below:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
> >
> > Right, Jim!
> > 
> > This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and 
> > finders of truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food or 
> > politics, though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. 
> 
> **Yes of course.
> 
> Since this is primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will *probably* 
> continue to focus on sharing those aspects of truth and liberation I find 
> most interesting at the moment. Sometimes that may look like lecturing; if so 
> and that causes you pain, may I suggest that you integrate (become aware of) 
> your inner lecturer; or if you don't like my thoughts, please feel free not 
> to read them. 
> 
> **What are you talking about? 

* * * This post was primarily intended for those of Us who might feel they have 
a problem with one of Us being angry, boring, pedantic, nauseating, a liar, 
ignorant, suffering, etc. etc., and would like to change that "other's" 
behavior so that *they* will feel more comfortable -- the classic stance of the 
suffering addict in Us :-)
 
> It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
> reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't 
> stop me from doing it!
> 
> **Absolutely! One of my favorite and most challenging activities!
> > 
> > Sadness, boredom, anger, shame, guilt, and even ignorance itself are all in 
> > the perceiver, the one who feels the sadness, boredom, anger, and so on. 
> > They are not the "fault" of the world or anyone "out there" -- they just 
> > ARE, and they always will be; they are eternal parts of Us. I find 
> > personally that they are not a problem if we do not resist them, but simply 
> > allow them to BE wherever
> > they wish to BE within our body.
> 
> **Duality along with Dharma lovingly co-exists with Unity. Duality within 
> Unity, relaxing into a greater Unity that encompasses both - perhaps that is 
> Brahman? I don't know what you would call it. 

* * * I don't know what to call it either, except Us :-)
 
> **Duality and Unity, as a subset of a greater whole, each vying for the 
> greatest love and attention from us, simultaneously. Always inclusive vs. 
> exclusive. Like a fractal, continually dividing itself into an ever 
> expanding, unified wholeness.
> 
* * * Yes!

> **Even the fiercest emotions are experienced in that light, and are  
> absolutely loved. I think we are saying the same thing - lol.
> 

* * * YES! Absolutely! :-D

> > As Blu pointed out, sometimes that may pop us out of the arena of suffering 
> > into a more spacious one, so we see the larger context -- but sometimes it 
> > may pop us deeper into the arena, so that we find the "suffering" is 
> > actually made up of particles of bliss, or love, or light. Either way, 
> > deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti, we have broken the deadlock of 
> > bondage or identification which was causing the suffering.
> 
> **"deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti" - what is the relationship to 
> Vishnu here, please?

* * * What is the relationship to Vishnu? Beats me. I was simply using a 
Spirit-Matter (or -Body) duality, with the I AM as Soul in the middle of the 
two. We could say that these are the three metagunas, with Shiva being Spirit 
or infinite expansion into Ecstasy, and Vishnu/Indra being Matter or infinite 
contraction into Love, and Brahma being the I AM or the consciousness-balance 
of Light, but it's just a model. Each end wraps into and embraces the other, if 
we go far enough into infinity in any direction. None of it is really Us, 
anyway, as we are simply the Great Mystery, it's only a perpective rendering of 
our body-of-manifestation from one point of view :-)
 
> Thanks :-)
> > 
* * * My pleasure! :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

Hi Rory! responses below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> Right, Jim!
> 
> This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and finders 
> of truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food or politics, 
> though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. 

**Yes of course.

Since this is primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will *probably* 
continue to focus on sharing those aspects of truth and liberation I find most 
interesting at the moment. Sometimes that may look like lecturing; if so and 
that causes you pain, may I suggest that you integrate (become aware of) your 
inner lecturer; or if you don't like my thoughts, please feel free not to read 
them. 

**What are you talking about? 

It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't stop 
me from doing it!

**Absolutely! One of my favorite and most challenging activities!
> 
> Sadness, boredom, anger, shame, guilt, and even ignorance itself are all in 
> the perceiver, the one who feels the sadness, boredom, anger, and so on. They 
> are not the "fault" of the world or anyone "out there" -- they just ARE, and 
> they always will be; they are eternal parts of Us. I find personally that 
> they are not a problem if we do not resist them, but simply allow them to BE 
> wherever
> they wish to BE within our body.

**Duality along with Dharma lovingly co-exists with Unity. Duality within 
Unity, relaxing into a greater Unity that encompasses both - perhaps that is 
Brahman? I don't know what you would call it. 

**Duality and Unity, as a subset of a greater whole, each vying for the 
greatest love and attention from us, simultaneously. Always inclusive vs. 
exclusive. Like a fractal, continually dividing itself into an ever expanding, 
unified wholeness.

**Even the fiercest emotions are experienced in that light, and are  absolutely 
loved. I think we are saying the same thing - lol.

> 
> As Blu pointed out, sometimes that may pop us out of the arena of suffering 
> into a more spacious one, so we see the larger context -- but sometimes it 
> may pop us deeper into the arena, so that we find the "suffering" is actually 
> made up of particles of bliss, or love, or light. Either way, deeper into 
> Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti, we have broken the deadlock of bondage or 
> identification which was causing the suffering.

**"deeper into Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti" - what is the relationship to 
Vishnu here, please?

Thanks :-)
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > "Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of 
> > truth and liberation everywhere."
> > 
> > Everyone likes a good joke, and I am truly sorry that discussions of 
> > experiences make you feel sad and bored, but it IS the reason this board 
> > came about, as you can see from its description above.
> > 
> > Besides, it takes two to tango, so get dancin' Bub, and start flapping yer 
> > gums! Anyone can be a wallflower/critic here, but it takes real balls to 
> > get out on the dance floor (that goes for the ladies too). 
> > 
> > You said the BATGAP folks were roaches, and you sang a love song to your 
> > buddies. Got it. What else you got? :-)   
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
> > > That's nice of you to say. 
> > > You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> > > deportation?
> > > I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
> > > Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> > > I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
> > > Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
> > > When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
> > > have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> > > to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
> > > I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> > > desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> > > my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
> > > posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> > > as a forum of optimists. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > > > 
> > > > LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
> > > > usually hit the nail on the head.
> > > > You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
> > > > stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
> > > > more and continue arguments that will be 
> > > > by then ancient history? :)
> > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > >> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > > > >> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

Right, Jim!

This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and finders of 
truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food or politics, 
though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. Since this is 
primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will *probably* continue to 
focus on sharing those aspects of truth and liberation I find most interesting 
at the moment. Sometimes that may look like lecturing; if so and that causes 
you pain, may I suggest that you integrate (become aware of) your inner 
lecturer; or if you don't like my thoughts, please feel free not to read them. 
It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly jabbering away at our own 
reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, personally, but it doesn't stop 
me from doing it!

Sadness, boredom, anger, shame, guilt, and even ignorance itself are all in the 
perceiver, the one who feels the sadness, boredom, anger, and so on. They are 
not the "fault" of the world or anyone "out there" -- they just ARE, and they 
always will be; they are eternal parts of Us. I find personally that they are 
not a problem if we do not resist them, but simply allow them to BE wherever
they wish to BE within our body.

As Blu pointed out, sometimes that may pop us out of the arena of suffering 
into a more spacious one, so we see the larger context -- but sometimes it may 
pop us deeper into the arena, so that we find the "suffering" is actually made 
up of particles of bliss, or love, or light. Either way, deeper into 
Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti, we have broken the deadlock of bondage or 
identification which was causing the suffering.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> "Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of 
> truth and liberation everywhere."
> 
> Everyone likes a good joke, and I am truly sorry that discussions of 
> experiences make you feel sad and bored, but it IS the reason this board came 
> about, as you can see from its description above.
> 
> Besides, it takes two to tango, so get dancin' Bub, and start flapping yer 
> gums! Anyone can be a wallflower/critic here, but it takes real balls to get 
> out on the dance floor (that goes for the ladies too). 
> 
> You said the BATGAP folks were roaches, and you sang a love song to your 
> buddies. Got it. What else you got? :-)   
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
> > That's nice of you to say. 
> > You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> > deportation?
> > I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
> > Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> > I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
> > Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
> > When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
> > have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> > to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
> > I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> > desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> > my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
> > posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> > as a forum of optimists. 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > > 
> > > LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
> > > usually hit the nail on the head.
> > > You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
> > > stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
> > > more and continue arguments that will be 
> > > by then ancient history? :)
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > > >> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

Right, Jim! 

This is indeed a forum focusing on topics of interest to seekers and finders of 
truth and liberation. It's not primarily about movies or food or politics, 
though those indeed are fair game, as is everything else. Since this is 
primarily a forum about truth and liberation, I will cprobably ontinue to focus 
on sharing those aspects of truth and liberation I find most interesting at the 
moment. Sometimes that may look like lecturing; if you don't like my thoughts, 
please feel free not to read them. It looks to me as if we're *all* constantly 
jabbering away at our own reflections -- I find that incredibly humorous, 
personally, but it doesn't stop me from doing it!

Sadness, boredom, anger, shame, guilt, and even ignorance itself are all in the 
perceiver, the one who feels the sadness, boredom, anger, and so on. They are 
not the "fault" of the world or anyone "out there" -- they just ARE, and they 
always will be; they are eternal parts of Us. I find personally that they are 
not a problem if we do not resist them, but simply allow them to BE wherever 
they wish to BE within our body. 

As Blu pointed out, sometimes that may pop us out of the arena of suffering 
into a more spacious one, so we see the larger context -- but sometimes it may 
pop us deeper into the arena, so that we find the "suffering" is actually made 
up of particles of bliss, or love, or light. Either way, deeper into 
Purusha/Shiva or Prakrit/Shakti, we have broken the deadlock of bondage or 
identification which was causing the suffering.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> "Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of 
> truth and liberation everywhere."
> 
> Everyone likes a good joke, and I am truly sorry that discussions of 
> experiences make you feel sad and bored, but it IS the reason this board came 
> about, as you can see from its description above.
> 
> Besides, it takes two to tango, so get dancin' Bub, and start flapping yer 
> gums! Anyone can be a wallflower/critic here, but it takes real balls to get 
> out on the dance floor (that goes for the ladies too). 
> 
> You said the BATGAP folks were roaches, and you sang a love song to your 
> buddies. Got it. What else you got? :-)   
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
> > That's nice of you to say. 
> > You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> > deportation?
> > I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
> > Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> > I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
> > Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
> > When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
> > have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> > to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
> > I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> > desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> > my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
> > posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> > as a forum of optimists. 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > > 
> > > LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
> > > usually hit the nail on the head.
> > > You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
> > > stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
> > > more and continue arguments that will be 
> > > by then ancient history? :)
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > > >> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
> >
> > *** My unsolicited lecture on putdowns-masked-as-humor 
> > notwithstanding, I too would be happy to see Curtis -- 
> > and Marek as well -- return here. 
> 
> There's a way to make that happen. Say something new.
> Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
> said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.
> I read the things they post on other forums, and 
> that's what they tend to post, and to respond to. If
> they're not present on Fairfield Life, the reason is
> that it's BORING here for them. Both are creative
> people, and they seek the company of other creative
> people. There are individuals here who consistently
> make 40 to 50 posts a week without once writing an
> original thought. That gets old after a while.

* * * Personally, I generally find boredom to be a function of my own failure 
to see what's really going on in any given moment; the boredom is always with 
my own stories or interpretation of the world. IOW boredom is a function of my 
own lack of creativity, not anyone else's.

 
> Another hint might be dropping the idea either that
> anyone would benefit from a "lecture" from you or
> that you have the right to deliver one. Just sayin'.
> Curtis is the quintessence of "We're all bozos on
> this bus," meaning that he sees the people in his
> life as his equals. People who feel equal to those
> around them don't "lecture." Only those who feel
> superior in some way do that. 

* * * Thanks for the lecture! :-)

> That's why Curtis and I don't "do" gurus any more. 
> It's really rare to find one who doesn't talk down 
> to people, as if it's in his or her "job description" 
> to make these other people more like them. It's like
> seeing the same bad "B" movie over and over, only
> with different actors. What a bore. Same thing when
> it happens on an Internet chat group.
>
* * * We are in agreement there; as I said, too much of any one flavor 
habituates the taste-buds. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

"Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of truth 
and liberation everywhere."

Everyone likes a good joke, and I am truly sorry that discussions of 
experiences make you feel sad and bored, but it IS the reason this board came 
about, as you can see from its description above.

Besides, it takes two to tango, so get dancin' Bub, and start flapping yer 
gums! Anyone can be a wallflower/critic here, but it takes real balls to get 
out on the dance floor (that goes for the ladies too). 

You said the BATGAP folks were roaches, and you sang a love song to your 
buddies. Got it. What else you got? :-)   

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
>
> 
> You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
> That's nice of you to say. 
> You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> deportation?
> I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
> Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
> Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
> When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
> have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
> I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
> posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> as a forum of optimists. 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:
> > 
> > > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > 
> > LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
> > usually hit the nail on the head.
> > You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
> > stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
> > more and continue arguments that will be 
> > by then ancient history? :)
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > 
> > >> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > >> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff"  wrote:
>
> *** My unsolicited lecture on putdowns-masked-as-humor 
> notwithstanding, I too would be happy to see Curtis -- 
> and Marek as well -- return here. 

There's a way to make that happen. Say something new.
Something creative, original, and that hasn't been
said and debated ad nauseum 100 times before.

I read the things they post on other forums, and 
that's what they tend to post, and to respond to. If
they're not present on Fairfield Life, the reason is
that it's BORING here for them. Both are creative
people, and they seek the company of other creative
people. There are individuals here who consistently
make 40 to 50 posts a week without once writing an
original thought. That gets old after a while.

Another hint might be dropping the idea either that
anyone would benefit from a "lecture" from you or
that you have the right to deliver one. Just sayin'.
Curtis is the quintessence of "We're all bozos on
this bus," meaning that he sees the people in his
life as his equals. People who feel equal to those
around them don't "lecture." Only those who feel
superior in some way do that. 

That's why Curtis and I don't "do" gurus any more. 
It's really rare to find one who doesn't talk down 
to people, as if it's in his or her "job description" 
to make these other people more like them. It's like
seeing the same bad "B" movie over and over, only
with different actors. What a bore. Same thing when
it happens on an Internet chat group.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

Dude you know so much about the behavior of dogs for a reason - lol.:-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
>
> Dogs bark, TurquoiseB.
> 
> It's their nature.
> 
> It's what they do. 
> 
> Perhaps Paris and Pippin only require a gentle
> reprimand or a small tug of the leash to quiet 
> themselves.
> 
> Junkyard dogs, unable to control themselves,
> for the well-being of the neighborhood, require
> a muzzle or other device to stifle the incessant
> snarling. It's just how they are.
> 
> If they could speak they would probably insist, 
> for years, that it is unfair, unnecessary, a vicious
> lie, a misrepresentation and plus which woof 
> woof woof.
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > That pretty much nails it. Try to imagine what FFL
> > would be like if Rick hadn't invented the posting
> > limits to deal with her. 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> > >
> > > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > > > saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[RoryGoff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
>
> 
> You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
> That's nice of you to say. 
> You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
> deportation?
> I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
> Better skilled at lurking than writing.
> I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
> Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
> When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
> have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
> to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
> I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
> desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
> my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
> posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
> as a forum of optimists. 
> 
*** My unsolicited lecture on putdowns-masked-as-humor notwithstanding, I too 
would be happy to see Curtis -- and Marek as well -- return here. Although I'm 
doubtless one of those posters you abhore, I  enjoy the variety of tastes here 
that has made FFL so unique; too much of any one flavor dulls the tastebuds: a 
habituation reminiscent of our newfound inability to replicate scientific 
results, perhaps.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[azgrey]

You are too kind Sunshine Sal. 
That's nice of you to say. 
You don't think Doug, Dug, Buck will ask for my
deportation?
I am a good listener. It's an acquired skill. 
Better skilled at lurking than writing.
I miss  Marek and Curtis. 
Yes, I confess to a man-crush on both those dudes.  
When TurquoiseB left FFL, the darkness seems to 
have allowed the insipid Yahoo BATGAP cockroaches
to feel safe to return to FFL from that lifeless board. 
I found that a dark period. That actually lessens my
desire to post. Go figure. I enjoy it when FFL smacks
my funny bone. The `lookatmeI'msoenlightenmentitude" 
posters posts make me start thinking of fmylife.com
as a forum of optimists. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:
> 
> > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> 
> LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
> usually hit the nail on the head.
> You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
> stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
> more and continue arguments that will be 
> by then ancient history? :)
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > 
> >> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> >> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[azgrey]

Dogs bark, TurquoiseB.

It's their nature.

It's what they do. 

Perhaps Paris and Pippin only require a gentle
reprimand or a small tug of the leash to quiet 
themselves.

Junkyard dogs, unable to control themselves,
for the well-being of the neighborhood, require
a muzzle or other device to stifle the incessant
snarling. It's just how they are.

If they could speak they would probably insist, 
for years, that it is unfair, unnecessary, a vicious
lie, a misrepresentation and plus which woof 
woof woof.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> That pretty much nails it. Try to imagine what FFL
> would be like if Rick hadn't invented the posting
> limits to deal with her. 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
> >
> > So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > > saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> > >
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live [1 Attachment]

[Tom Pall]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:16 AM, authfriend  wrote:

>
>
> As to becoming angry, it's obviously Bhairitu
> and Barry who are angry. I just think their
> posturing is hilarious.
>
> (Tom, interestingly enough, doesn't seem to
> be angry, but it is a little silly for him to
> assume, without reading the articles I cited,
> that the writers know no more than I do.)
>
> For the record, all I know about the Internet
> kill switch idea is that nothing I've read
> about it suggests it's anything more than a
> wild paranoid fantasy. Nobody here--not
> Bhairitu, nor Tom, and certainly not Barry--
> has addressed any of the reasons these
> articles put forth for *why* it's a wild
> fantasy.
>
>
It's just a wild fantasy, Judy.  Of course it's impossible to put a kill
switch on the US Internet and if there were one, what use would it be?  That
it would be possible to do without re-engineer the whole thing was a wild
fantasy of mine.   Would it be OK if we just point the discussion in another
direction now?

Vaj, thanks for getting me thinking about bigger implications.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:56 PM, azgrey wrote:

> So little to say and so many posts used proving it.

LOL~~why don't you post more often, az?  You
usually hit the nail on the head.
You realize, of course, that Judy's going to be
stewing for 4 days until she can charge back in once
more and continue arguments that will be 
by then ancient history? :)

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> 
>> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
>> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

That pretty much nails it. Try to imagine what FFL
would be like if Rick hadn't invented the posting
limits to deal with her. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey  wrote:
>
> So little to say and so many posts used proving it.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> > saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[azgrey]

So little to say and so many posts used proving it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:

> That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
> saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/31/2011 10:28 AM, authfriend wrote:
> You know something? One of the big advantages the Powers
> That Be have is that conspiracy theorists think they're
> stupid. The more you underestimate them, the more
> dangerous they become, because you'll miss the things
> they do that are more clever than you expect.

Now that's a real "government knows best" attitude if I ever saw one. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/31/2011 03:00 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.

BTW, what I said was that you thought *I* was serious
in speculating that you were a government agent, not
that you took me seriously.


> Hey, look at it this way I helped to make Judy to
> post out sooner. :-D

I'm forever amused by those who seem to think that
"posting out" is some kind of major disaster,
something one should strenuously exert oneself to
keep from happening, and that will plunge one into
despair and frustration if it does happen.

What are you, nuts?? Talk about anal-retentive!
That's the *opposite* of living "in the moment."
When you want to say something, say it; don't be
constantly muffling yourself in fear that you'll
run out of posts. Enjoy what you have while you
have it; your posts will be replenished anyway in
just a few days.


> I would never dare comment on editing writing.  It's not my
> thing and I respect folks that do so I would be so
> pretentious as to post my armchair opinions on the matter.
> So I find it a little odd that someone who has probably
> never written a line of computer code in their life would
> think they are an overnight expert on how the Internet works.

Boy, I too would find it very strange indeed.

But what I find even stranger is that you and Barry
have somehow managed to convince yourselves that this
is what I think.

Bhairitu, you're getting sucked into Barry's penchant
for fantasizing. All I did was report on what some
articles I'd read had to say. How do you turn that
into my thinking I'm an expert?

It would never occur to me to claim you thought you
were an expert on editing if you had simply cited
some articles on editing.

And if I thought the articles were wrong, I'd rebut
them, rather than denouncing you simply for mentioning
what they said.

> But as you cite that is the problem with the Internet.
> Some people have become obsessed with what I have 
> labeled "extactism"

I don't think that's a word, Bhairitu. You might want to
check the spelling.

> where you can't say anything off the top of your head
> but you must go do a search to verify and back it with
> facts.

That's pretty funny. You know how that tendency started,
don't you? It started way back in the early days of
Usenet, when if you *did* say something off the cuff,
someone would be sure to immediately demand that you
back it up. It was considered bad form *not* to cite
your sources.

It's a longstanding tradition (and, I think, a good one,
because it cuts down on the kind of misinformation that
spreads so easily on the Internet).

I can't tell you how many times I've been about to say
something, then decided to check first, only to discover
that what I'd been going to say was in error.


> The jury is actually out on whether an Internet kill
> switch could be implemented and I think Tom made some
> good points along that line.

I'd be interested to see him rebut the reasons the 
articles give for saying it's too difficult.

> It's amazing what the criminals who now run the world
> think they can get away with apparently thinking we won't
> notice.  But there are many of us just watching like a
> cat watching the mouse before it pounces.  And we use the
> Internet to expose them.

You nitwit. That's one of the main reasons they'll never
try it. That, and the fact that there are so many ways
to get around it if they ever did manage to accomplish it.

You know something? One of the big advantages the Powers
That Be have is that conspiracy theorists think they're
stupid. The more you underestimate them, the more
dangerous they become, because you'll miss the things
they do that are more clever than you expect.


That's 50 for me, after a most enjoyable couple of days
saying what I wanted to say when I wanted to say it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[whynotnow7]

Why put in a kill switch apparatus when you can now monitor anything and 
extract anything from the Internet, with an unlimited hidden budget to do so? 
The last thing the US Govt would want to do is shut down this massive data 
source, or have it reborn without them having open access to it. :-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/31/2011 03:00 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.
> > While I agree with the sentiment, someone should
> > point out that you've just made a 100+ line post
> > about her and her posturing. It could have been
> > done in much fewer lines, and more generically.
> >
> > I think what you're railing against is a larger
> > phenomenon, Internet Expert Syndrome, also known
> > as Proclamationitis.
> >
> > That's where a person with zero expertise Googles
> > something or reads something on the Internet and
> > considers themselves competent to write about it
> > as if they actually had expertise.
> >
> > And then comes the clincher -- they parrot what
> > they've Googled or read and actually expect it
> > to be received as they actually had some expertise.
> > In extreme cases they expect what they parrot to
> > be treated as the "proclamations" they clearly
> > consider it to be, and become angry when someone
> > identifies it as the mere parroting it is.
> >
> > I think it's an Internet-wide disorder, but is
> > aggravated by exposure to TM and *its* style of
> > speaking in parroted pat answers and expecting
> > them to be treated as proclamations.
> 
> Hey, look at it this way I helped to make Judy to post out sooner. :-D
> 
> Seriously I don't find that much to comment on these days on FFL It's 
> mostly just dead horse beating.  I like to raise socio-economic problems 
> because I know some folks here are actually interested in them and might 
> a slightly more enlightened view of them than I'll get on a political forum.
> 
> I would never dare comment on editing writing.  It's not my thing and I 
> respect folks that do so I would be so pretentious as to post my 
> armchair opinions on the matter.  So I find it a little odd that someone 
> who has probably never written a line of computer code in their life 
> would think they are an overnight expert on how the Internet works.  But 
> as you cite that is the problem with the Internet.  Some people have 
> become obsessed with what I have labeled "extactism" where you can't say 
> anything off the top of your head but you must go do a search to verify 
> and back it with facts.  I went so far as to mock this once in a post 
> that nowadays everyone would be sitting at a table in the restaurant 
> where discussion would be interrupted by pregnant pauses as people 
> before they said anything did a search on their phone or tablet.  Sounds 
> like it might even make a funny YouTube video.
> 
> When I read a technical article I liked to scroll down and read the 
> comments.  You often get some good insights from experts in the field 
> that way.  The jury is actually out on whether an Internet kill switch 
> could be implemented and I think Tom made some good points along that 
> line.  It's amazing what the criminals who now run the world think they 
> can get away with apparently thinking we won't notice.  But there are 
> many of us just watching like a cat watching the mouse before it 
> pounces.  And we use the Internet to expose them.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/31/2011 03:00 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.
> While I agree with the sentiment, someone should
> point out that you've just made a 100+ line post
> about her and her posturing. It could have been
> done in much fewer lines, and more generically.
>
> I think what you're railing against is a larger
> phenomenon, Internet Expert Syndrome, also known
> as Proclamationitis.
>
> That's where a person with zero expertise Googles
> something or reads something on the Internet and
> considers themselves competent to write about it
> as if they actually had expertise.
>
> And then comes the clincher -- they parrot what
> they've Googled or read and actually expect it
> to be received as they actually had some expertise.
> In extreme cases they expect what they parrot to
> be treated as the "proclamations" they clearly
> consider it to be, and become angry when someone
> identifies it as the mere parroting it is.
>
> I think it's an Internet-wide disorder, but is
> aggravated by exposure to TM and *its* style of
> speaking in parroted pat answers and expecting
> them to be treated as proclamations.

Hey, look at it this way I helped to make Judy to post out sooner. :-D

Seriously I don't find that much to comment on these days on FFL It's 
mostly just dead horse beating.  I like to raise socio-economic problems 
because I know some folks here are actually interested in them and might 
a slightly more enlightened view of them than I'll get on a political forum.

I would never dare comment on editing writing.  It's not my thing and I 
respect folks that do so I would be so pretentious as to post my 
armchair opinions on the matter.  So I find it a little odd that someone 
who has probably never written a line of computer code in their life 
would think they are an overnight expert on how the Internet works.  But 
as you cite that is the problem with the Internet.  Some people have 
become obsessed with what I have labeled "extactism" where you can't say 
anything off the top of your head but you must go do a search to verify 
and back it with facts.  I went so far as to mock this once in a post 
that nowadays everyone would be sitting at a table in the restaurant 
where discussion would be interrupted by pregnant pauses as people 
before they said anything did a search on their phone or tablet.  Sounds 
like it might even make a funny YouTube video.

When I read a technical article I liked to scroll down and read the 
comments.  You often get some good insights from experts in the field 
that way.  The jury is actually out on whether an Internet kill switch 
could be implemented and I think Tom made some good points along that 
line.  It's amazing what the criminals who now run the world think they 
can get away with apparently thinking we won't notice.  But there are 
many of us just watching like a cat watching the mouse before it 
pounces.  And we use the Internet to expose them.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

I knocked Barry down several pegs yesterday,
and of course he's infuriated. He doesn't dare
respond to me directly or admit he's read my
posts, so the only way he can attempt to get
back at me is to piggyback on Bhairitu's
nonsense.

And when a person piggybacks on somebody else's
nonsense, they end up spouting nonsense too.

I didn't claim or hint or suggest in any way
that I had any expertise whatsoever on the
subject of an Internet kill switch. All I did
was report on what some articles I read said.

The Barrys have managed to turn that into an
act of extreme hubris. As if neither of them
had ever made proclamations in areas in which
they had no expertise *without* having first
checked out what the experts were saying, and
as a result gotten their proclamations
ludicrously wrong. Barry's lament over the
number of people who get their news from Fox
is the most recent example (one of the points
I corrected him on yesterday).

As to becoming angry, it's obviously Bhairitu
and Barry who are angry. I just think their
posturing is hilarious.

(Tom, interestingly enough, doesn't seem to
be angry, but it is a little silly for him to
assume, without reading the articles I cited,
that the writers know no more than I do.)

For the record, all I know about the Internet
kill switch idea is that nothing I've read
about it suggests it's anything more than a
wild paranoid fantasy. Nobody here--not
Bhairitu, nor Tom, and certainly not Barry--
has addressed any of the reasons these
articles put forth for *why* it's a wild
fantasy.

I suggest that if *they* want to be considered
the experts whose word we should accept without
question, they need to demonstrate it by
rebutting what the articles have said.

Denouncing me for citing these articles, and
claiming falsely that I consider myself an
expert, really doesn't do the trick. It just
makes them look ludicrous. (Tom didn't do
this, BTW, just Barry and Bhairitu.)



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.
> 
> While I agree with the sentiment, someone should
> point out that you've just made a 100+ line post
> about her and her posturing. It could have been
> done in much fewer lines, and more generically.
> 
> I think what you're railing against is a larger
> phenomenon, Internet Expert Syndrome, also known
> as Proclamationitis.  
> 
> That's where a person with zero expertise Googles
> something or reads something on the Internet and
> considers themselves competent to write about it 
> as if they actually had expertise. 
> 
> And then comes the clincher -- they parrot what 
> they've Googled or read and actually expect it 
> to be received as they actually had some expertise.
> In extreme cases they expect what they parrot to
> be treated as the "proclamations" they clearly
> consider it to be, and become angry when someone 
> identifies it as the mere parroting it is.
> 
> I think it's an Internet-wide disorder, but is
> aggravated by exposure to TM and *its* style of
> speaking in parroted pat answers and expecting 
> them to be treated as proclamations.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.

While I agree with the sentiment, someone should
point out that you've just made a 100+ line post
about her and her posturing. It could have been
done in much fewer lines, and more generically.

I think what you're railing against is a larger
phenomenon, Internet Expert Syndrome, also known
as Proclamationitis.  

That's where a person with zero expertise Googles
something or reads something on the Internet and
considers themselves competent to write about it 
as if they actually had expertise. 

And then comes the clincher -- they parrot what 
they've Googled or read and actually expect it 
to be received as they actually had some expertise.
In extreme cases they expect what they parrot to
be treated as the "proclamations" they clearly
consider it to be, and become angry when someone 
identifies it as the mere parroting it is.

I think it's an Internet-wide disorder, but is
aggravated by exposure to TM and *its* style of
speaking in parroted pat answers and expecting 
them to be treated as proclamations. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:13 PM, authfriend  wrote:

> Oh, that's so sweet of you, Tom, but you should have checked
> with me before you went to all that trouble.
>
> When I first saw that Weekly World News story awhile back,
> I immediately had a blast-proof enclosure built for my
> computer. And ever since Barry warned me about spontaneously
> combusting, I've been wearing a special suit with built-in
> sprinklers to douse the flames should I do so. Of course,
> I also don't *sit* at my desk, I hover. Plus which, I now
> have a CO2 cartridge hooked up to counter the effects of the
> Halon, so you don't need to worry about a thing. I'm not the
> type to take chances.
>
> (Although actually Halon-Consciousness sounds like it
> might be fun. Could you send me some separately just
> for experimental purposes?)
>
> Have you buitt a Faraday Cage around yourself?  Their all the rage with
people who want to keep secrets.  Or even better, top secrets.   But boring
stuff, the kind that doesn't show up on *leaks.   I don't feel all that good
about sending you Halon.  How's 'bout some He instead?   It'll help your
hovering.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

Oh, that's so sweet of you, Tom, but you should have checked
with me before you went to all that trouble.

When I first saw that Weekly World News story awhile back,
I immediately had a blast-proof enclosure built for my
computer. And ever since Barry warned me about spontaneously
combusting, I've been wearing a special suit with built-in
sprinklers to douse the flames should I do so. Of course,
I also don't *sit* at my desk, I hover. Plus which, I now
have a CO2 cartridge hooked up to counter the effects of the
Halon, so you don't need to worry about a thing. I'm not the
type to take chances.

(Although actually Halon-Consciousness sounds like it
might be fun. Could you send me some separately just
for experimental purposes?)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:27 PM, authfriend  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > You might want to read what I *actually* wrote, Tom, before
> > you assume that Bhairitu is representing what I said accurately.
> >
> >
> >
> Judy, you were snookered.  Operating outside our domain of knowledge, it's
> easy to fall prey to someone you can't evaluate knows as little about the
> situation as you do.
> 
> To show my good will towards you, I've sent Computer Bomb disablers.  I've
> also prepped your PC and your mobile phone to envelop you in Halon when you
> belately self-combust as Barry predicted.  A minor problem with Halon is
> that it's heavier than air, so that if you happen to be in a raised floor
> area and the Halon fires, you'll suddenly not have any O2 and since you
> won't produce CO2 from the Halon, you won't have a breathing reflex or the
> urge to breathe.  All the power of  being hit in the solar plexus playing
> football only none of the pain.  I've experienced this sort of thing several
> times, talking like Daffy Duck by inhaling Helium.  Suddenly I'm coming to
> and I didn't realize I'd been gone from. If only I could describe the
> experience the way Rory explains Enlightenment, boring the reader into a
> higher state of consciousness.  My failing.
> 
> So until your predicted spontaneous combustion, stand or sit with no other
> support so when you fall over, you'll breathe fresh air.
> 
> You're welcome, I'm sure.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live [1 Attachment]

[Tom Pall]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:27 PM, authfriend  wrote:

>
>
> You might want to read what I *actually* wrote, Tom, before
> you assume that Bhairitu is representing what I said accurately.
>
>
>
Judy, you were snookered.  Operating outside our domain of knowledge, it's
easy to fall prey to someone you can't evaluate knows as little about the
situation as you do.

To show my good will towards you, I've sent Computer Bomb disablers.  I've
also prepped your PC and your mobile phone to envelop you in Halon when you
belately self-combust as Barry predicted.  A minor problem with Halon is
that it's heavier than air, so that if you happen to be in a raised floor
area and the Halon fires, you'll suddenly not have any O2 and since you
won't produce CO2 from the Halon, you won't have a breathing reflex or the
urge to breathe.  All the power of  being hit in the solar plexus playing
football only none of the pain.  I've experienced this sort of thing several
times, talking like Daffy Duck by inhaling Helium.  Suddenly I'm coming to
and I didn't realize I'd been gone from. If only I could describe the
experience the way Rory explains Enlightenment, boring the reader into a
higher state of consciousness.  My failing.

So until your predicted spontaneous combustion, stand or sit with no other
support so when you fall over, you'll breathe fresh air.

You're welcome, I'm sure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Bhairitu  wrote:
> 
> > Hey Tom, Judy doesn't think you know what you are talking
> > about (she'll deny it of course).  Judy knows all about it 
> > because she reads many articles from "genuine experts" and
> > just who are these "genuine experts."  She'll deny it of
> > course.
> >
> > Of course if we had been sitting at a table in a restaurant
> > we would have shut her down quickly.  But on the web due to
> > her OCD she'll waste her time "researching it" because her
> > ego demands it.  She'll deny this of course.
> >
> Ask her to answer, without benefit of using a search engine
> for the answer, how many elevators you have to take, how
> many escalators you have to take, how many flights of steps
> you have to climb in order to finally get onto a raised floor.

You might want to read what I *actually* wrote, Tom, before
you assume that Bhairitu is representing what I said accurately.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

It's posts like this that reveal Bhairitu to be an
utter fool who either doesn't understand or
deliberately misrepresents what people who don't
agree with him say.

He'll deny this of course.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/30/2011 09:45 AM, authfriend wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> On 01/29/2011 09:13 PM, authfriend wrote:
> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
> > 
> >> I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
> >> if you do shut down telecommunications?
> > I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> > disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> > wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> > really going on.
> >
> > 
> >
>  Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D
> >>> Did you not see the ""?
> >> I not only saw the guffaw
> > And you concluded from it that I was serious in speculating
> > that you were a government agent, rather than mocking your
> > knee-jerk conspiracy theorizing?
> 
> ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.
> 
> >> but also wonder if you saw me mentioning your
> >> pun which I'm not sure you know you made but the tech
> >> folks here would have gotten.
> > Actually I think most folks know what "virtual" means
> > in both senses. It isn't a techie-only term in the
> > cyber sense. But you see, it didn't fit the context
> > in that sense, so it wasn't a pun.
> 
> Well folks I guess that Judy our resident "author's friend" doesn't know 
> a pun when she even writes one (she'll deny it of course).  I at least 
> thought it was intentional so acknowledged it.  Obviously we are dealing 
> with concepts of a "virtual world" so "virtually impossible" is 
> obviously funny.
> 
> >> As for the article I posted it for discussion and not that it
> >> resolves anything.  After I posted I saw that Tom posted the
> >> same article.  And BTW I don't think that Tom agrees with you
> >> and he sounds like he works networking stuff so might know
> >> even better.
> > I've read too many articles by now from genuine experts
> > to assume that Tom knows better.
> 
> Hey Tom, Judy doesn't think you know what you are talking about (she'll 
> deny it of course).  Judy knows all about it because she reads many 
> articles from "genuine experts" and just who are these "genuine 
> experts."  She'll deny it of course.
> 
> Of course if we had been sitting at a table in a restaurant we would 
> have shut her down quickly.  But on the web due to her OCD she'll waste 
> her time "researching it" because her ego demands it.  She'll deny this 
> of course.
> 
> > But the article only
> >> "suggests" it might be "difficult" to implement a kill switch.
> > And others point out that while it's conceivable, it would
> > be so difficult and so complicated that the chances of its
> > ever being attempted are almost nil.
> 
> Folks, if you go read tech articles you'll see many comments rebutting 
> what a tech journalist is saying.  I wouldn't expect a tech writer to be 
> able to help me at all say with OpenGL code or how to get orthographic 
> projections right.  On CNET's News.com we frequently bat around in the 
> comments section the journalists who don't know what they're talking 
> about (which unfortunately is far too often).  So I would say the jury 
> is out on how successful the US government would be in implementing a 
> "kill switch" be want them to know that any attempt will be met with 
> opposition.
> 
> > Here's another article that discusses why it's so vanishingly
> > unlikely--among other reasons, because hackers could easily
> > find ways around it even if it could be accomplished:
> >
> > http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-internet-switch
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/4g7emsl
> >
> >> Tom made some reasonable arguments about how it might be done.
> >> But I bet you don't read Tom.
> > I read his posts on this. I think he way understimates the
> > difficulty.
> 
> Folks, Tom and I get our hands dirty with this stuff.  Granted I'm an 
> applications developer and not an IT technician.  These are specialized 
> fields and it's been a good 25 years since an engineer could comprehend 
> the entire field. Anyone venture to guess how many lines of code that 
> Judy has *ever* written?
> 
> 
> > 
> >> I think our government fears that this might go so viral
> >> it would happen here.
> > Oh, please.
> 
> Folks, there are a number of people who disagree on this.  I guess is 
> that Judy lives in the fantasy world the MSM presents.
> 
> She'll deny this of course.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Bhairitu  wrote:

> Hey Tom, Judy doesn't think you know what you are talking about (she'll
> deny it of course).  Judy knows all about it because she reads many
> articles from "genuine experts" and just who are these "genuine
> experts."  She'll deny it of course.
>
> Of course if we had been sitting at a table in a restaurant we would
> have shut her down quickly.  But on the web due to her OCD she'll waste
> her time "researching it" because her ego demands it.  She'll deny this
> of course.
>
>
Ask her to answer, without benefit of using a search engine for the answer,
how many elevators you have to take, how many escalators you have to take,
how many flights of steps you have to climb in order to finally get onto a
raised floor.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/30/2011 09:45 AM, authfriend wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 01/29/2011 09:13 PM, authfriend wrote:
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
>> if you do shut down telecommunications?
> I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> really going on.
>
> 
>
 Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D
>>> Did you not see the ""?
>> I not only saw the guffaw
> And you concluded from it that I was serious in speculating
> that you were a government agent, rather than mocking your
> knee-jerk conspiracy theorizing?

ROTFL folks, I take Judy about as seriously as I do Willy.

>> but also wonder if you saw me mentioning your
>> pun which I'm not sure you know you made but the tech
>> folks here would have gotten.
> Actually I think most folks know what "virtual" means
> in both senses. It isn't a techie-only term in the
> cyber sense. But you see, it didn't fit the context
> in that sense, so it wasn't a pun.

Well folks I guess that Judy our resident "author's friend" doesn't know 
a pun when she even writes one (she'll deny it of course).  I at least 
thought it was intentional so acknowledged it.  Obviously we are dealing 
with concepts of a "virtual world" so "virtually impossible" is 
obviously funny.

>> As for the article I posted it for discussion and not that it
>> resolves anything.  After I posted I saw that Tom posted the
>> same article.  And BTW I don't think that Tom agrees with you
>> and he sounds like he works networking stuff so might know
>> even better.
> I've read too many articles by now from genuine experts
> to assume that Tom knows better.

Hey Tom, Judy doesn't think you know what you are talking about (she'll 
deny it of course).  Judy knows all about it because she reads many 
articles from "genuine experts" and just who are these "genuine 
experts."  She'll deny it of course.

Of course if we had been sitting at a table in a restaurant we would 
have shut her down quickly.  But on the web due to her OCD she'll waste 
her time "researching it" because her ego demands it.  She'll deny this 
of course.

> But the article only
>> "suggests" it might be "difficult" to implement a kill switch.
> And others point out that while it's conceivable, it would
> be so difficult and so complicated that the chances of its
> ever being attempted are almost nil.

Folks, if you go read tech articles you'll see many comments rebutting 
what a tech journalist is saying.  I wouldn't expect a tech writer to be 
able to help me at all say with OpenGL code or how to get orthographic 
projections right.  On CNET's News.com we frequently bat around in the 
comments section the journalists who don't know what they're talking 
about (which unfortunately is far too often).  So I would say the jury 
is out on how successful the US government would be in implementing a 
"kill switch" be want them to know that any attempt will be met with 
opposition.

> Here's another article that discusses why it's so vanishingly
> unlikely--among other reasons, because hackers could easily
> find ways around it even if it could be accomplished:
>
> http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-internet-switch
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4g7emsl
>
>> Tom made some reasonable arguments about how it might be done.
>> But I bet you don't read Tom.
> I read his posts on this. I think he way understimates the
> difficulty.

Folks, Tom and I get our hands dirty with this stuff.  Granted I'm an 
applications developer and not an IT technician.  These are specialized 
fields and it's been a good 25 years since an engineer could comprehend 
the entire field. Anyone venture to guess how many lines of code that 
Judy has *ever* written?


> 
>> I think our government fears that this might go so viral
>> it would happen here.
> Oh, please.

Folks, there are a number of people who disagree on this.  I guess is 
that Judy lives in the fantasy world the MSM presents.

She'll deny this of course.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/30/2011 10:01 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> Point is the US government wants a "kill switch".  Whether it is
>> possible or not is another issue.  And why anyway?  What do they fear?
>> There is so much lame legislation passed by tech ignorant legislators
>> that we need a technical acuity test before anyone runs for office.
> Its an interesting idea I have thought about from time to time. And 
> competency not just in technology but also economics, world, 
> military/war/national history, psychology, 
> health/medicine/nutrition/agriculture, world cultures/literature/film, 
> math/statistics, epistimology, ethics, sociology, comparative political 
> systems, geography, climate science, etc. While it could be mandatory, it 
> also could be done effectively as a volunteer effort. That is, there would be 
> a standardized (updated every year or two) test like medical and bar exams. 
> scores would be made public. Progress from taking the test in subsequent 
> years would be noted. And if someone refused, then the public would not be at 
> a loss to know why.
>
> And just as we need a divers license to drive, a college degree to qualify 
> for various jobs, immigrants need to pass citizen tests, voter competency 
> tests would raise the level of the electorate. If done well, it would 
> encourage potential voters to study up, get some basic competency in topics 
> necessary to analyze politicians and their policies.   While such systems 
> have been used selectively, corrupt fashion, e.g., literacy tests in the 
> South to limit black voter registration, if done well, such tests could avoid 
> manipulation and corruption. It does raise the issue of taxation without 
> representation. But we deny felons and foreigners (not to equate the two) the 
> right to vote, even though they pay taxes. Being an ignorant, ill informed 
> voter is "felon" like in that it is destroying the country -- far more so 
> than most felons.
>

When this country started out it wasn't difficult for educated people 
and maybe even semi-educated people to get their arms around the 
technology of the day.   No way with what we have today.  I wrote Diane 
Feinstein about her pushing a bill about MP3 downloads.  I actually a 
fairly detailed reply about the points I raised most likely by an 
assistant who did know what I was talking about.  I'm not saying that 
they need to be experts but we only have to remember that president 
whatever his name was (best forgotten) who talked about "the Internets."

Lobbyists depend on issues being complicated so that not only the public 
does not understand what is coming down but even the legislators.   And 
have you ever tried to read a bill?  I haven't looked for it but I 
suspect there is a utility or two that can put them into a readable 
format so that a bill that is a 1000 pages long comes down sometimes to 
as little as 50 pages.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Point is the US government wants a "kill switch".  Whether it is 
> possible or not is another issue.  And why anyway?  What do they fear?  
> There is so much lame legislation passed by tech ignorant legislators 
> that we need a technical acuity test before anyone runs for office.

Its an interesting idea I have thought about from time to time. And competency 
not just in technology but also economics, world, military/war/national 
history, psychology, health/medicine/nutrition/agriculture, world 
cultures/literature/film, math/statistics, epistimology, ethics, sociology, 
comparative political systems, geography, climate science, etc. While it could 
be mandatory, it also could be done effectively as a volunteer effort. That is, 
there would be a standardized (updated every year or two) test like medical and 
bar exams. scores would be made public. Progress from taking the test in 
subsequent years would be noted. And if someone refused, then the public would 
not be at a loss to know why.

And just as we need a divers license to drive, a college degree to qualify for 
various jobs, immigrants need to pass citizen tests, voter competency tests 
would raise the level of the electorate. If done well, it would encourage 
potential voters to study up, get some basic competency in topics necessary to 
analyze politicians and their policies.   While such systems have been used 
selectively, corrupt fashion, e.g., literacy tests in the South to limit black 
voter registration, if done well, such tests could avoid manipulation and 
corruption. It does raise the issue of taxation without representation. But we 
deny felons and foreigners (not to equate the two) the right to vote, even 
though they pay taxes. Being an ignorant, ill informed voter is "felon" like in 
that it is destroying the country -- far more so than most felons.




>  Our 
> legislators are as bad or worse than a lot of armchair IT experts we 
> find on the web.  Reminds me of when a CEO once asked me "is Compuserve 
> the Internet" and he was in a position where he shouldn't be unless he 
> had done his homework.  And those are the kind of people that run this 
> country.
> 
> On 01/30/2011 04:30 AM, merudanda wrote:
> > But like in Egypt, in Europe almost all interconnection happens in the
> > capitals of the countries involved So in Egypt or many medium-sized
> > countries, killing the connections between ISPs wouldn't be too hard.
> > Right. In the US, this would be quite difficult,because the country is
> > so large, and traffic volumes are so high, large networks may
> > interconnect in as many as 20 cities. Numerous intercontinental sea
> > cables land in the Boston, New York, Washington DC, Miami, Los Angeles,
> > and Seattle regions.
> >There appear to have been no significant disruptions to other
> > countries' traffic passing through Egypt on fiberoptic cables such as
> > SMW-4 and FLAG FEA, the majority of Internet connectivity between Europe
> > and Asia actually passes through Egypt. The Gulf states, in particular,
> > depend critically on the Egyptian fiberoptic corridor for their
> > connectivity to world markets. Commodity traders are already nervous
> > about the potential impacts on oil prices of any closure of the Suez
> > Canal, but the potential risks to global Internet connectivity through
> > Egypt are equally significant, and far less widely understood.
> >
> > Are the folks at Davos thinking about this? They should be.IMHO
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
> >>> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> >> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> >> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> >> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
> >>
> >>
> >>You will have
> >>> awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it
> >>> kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that
> >>> Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather
> > limited
> >>> but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers
> > and
> >>> opened them up to create wide area hotspots.
> >>>
> >>> On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
>  If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty
> > chilling.
>  If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:
> 
> 
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
> > 
>  It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and
> > after the
>  government shut it off.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/29/2011 09:13 PM, authfriend wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:

>  I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
>  if you do shut down telecommunications?
> >>>
> >>> I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> >>> disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> >>> wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> >>> really going on.
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >> Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D
> >
> > Did you not see the ""?
> 
> I not only saw the guffaw

And you concluded from it that I was serious in speculating
that you were a government agent, rather than mocking your
knee-jerk conspiracy theorizing?

> but also wonder if you saw me mentioning your 
> pun which I'm not sure you know you made but the tech
> folks here would have gotten.

Actually I think most folks know what "virtual" means
in both senses. It isn't a techie-only term in the
cyber sense. But you see, it didn't fit the context
in that sense, so it wasn't a pun.

> As for the article I posted it for discussion and not that it 
> resolves anything.  After I posted I saw that Tom posted the
> same article.  And BTW I don't think that Tom agrees with you
> and he sounds like he works networking stuff so might know
> even better.

I've read too many articles by now from genuine experts
to assume that Tom knows better.

   But the article only 
> "suggests" it might be "difficult" to implement a kill switch.

And others point out that while it's conceivable, it would
be so difficult and so complicated that the chances of its
ever being attempted are almost nil.

Here's another article that discusses why it's so vanishingly
unlikely--among other reasons, because hackers could easily
find ways around it even if it could be accomplished:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-internet-switch

http://tinyurl.com/4g7emsl

> Tom made some reasonable arguments about how it might be done.
> But I bet you don't read Tom.

I read his posts on this. I think he way understimates the
difficulty.


> I think our government fears that this might go so viral
> it would happen here.

Oh, please.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

Point is the US government wants a "kill switch".  Whether it is 
possible or not is another issue.  And why anyway?  What do they fear?  
There is so much lame legislation passed by tech ignorant legislators 
that we need a technical acuity test before anyone runs for office.  Our 
legislators are as bad or worse than a lot of armchair IT experts we 
find on the web.  Reminds me of when a CEO once asked me "is Compuserve 
the Internet" and he was in a position where he shouldn't be unless he 
had done his homework.  And those are the kind of people that run this 
country.

On 01/30/2011 04:30 AM, merudanda wrote:
> But like in Egypt, in Europe almost all interconnection happens in the
> capitals of the countries involved So in Egypt or many medium-sized
> countries, killing the connections between ISPs wouldn't be too hard.
> Right. In the US, this would be quite difficult,because the country is
> so large, and traffic volumes are so high, large networks may
> interconnect in as many as 20 cities. Numerous intercontinental sea
> cables land in the Boston, New York, Washington DC, Miami, Los Angeles,
> and Seattle regions.
>There appear to have been no significant disruptions to other
> countries' traffic passing through Egypt on fiberoptic cables such as
> SMW-4 and FLAG FEA, the majority of Internet connectivity between Europe
> and Asia actually passes through Egypt. The Gulf states, in particular,
> depend critically on the Egyptian fiberoptic corridor for their
> connectivity to world markets. Commodity traders are already nervous
> about the potential impacts on oil prices of any closure of the Suez
> Canal, but the potential risks to global Internet connectivity through
> Egypt are equally significant, and far less widely understood.
>
> Are the folks at Davos thinking about this? They should be.IMHO
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
>>> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
>> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
>> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
>> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
>>
>>
>>You will have
>>> awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it
>>> kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that
>>> Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather
> limited
>>> but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers
> and
>>> opened them up to create wide area hotspots.
>>>
>>> On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
 If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty
> chilling.
 If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
> 
 It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and
> after the
 government shut it off.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/29/2011 09:13 PM, authfriend wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 01/29/2011 04:54 PM, authfriend wrote:
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
 On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairituwrote:
>> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
 I'll pardon the pun.

 Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp
>>> Did you read this article, Bhairitu? It says just what
>>> I said.
>> I think you parsed it wrong.
> It says just what I said.
>
>>> And you might want to read a little more about Lieberman's
>>> bill.
>> Been quite aware for months about Lieberman's bill.
> Yes. I think you might want to read a little more
> about it.
>
 I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
 if you do shut down telecommunications?
>>> I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
>>> disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
>>> wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
>>> really going on.
>>>
>>> 
>> Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D
> Did you not see the ""?
>
>
>

I not only saw the guffaw but also wonder if you saw me mentioning your 
pun which I'm not sure you know you made but the tech folks here would 
have gotten.

As for the article I posted it for discussion and not that it resolves 
anything.  After I posted I saw that Tom posted the same article.  And 
BTW I don't think that Tom agrees with you and he sounds like he works 
networking stuff so might know even better.   But the article only 
"suggests" it might be "difficult" to implement a kill switch.  Tom made 
some reasonable arguments about how it might be done.  But I bet you 
don't read Tom.

The article was one of many discussing the "kill switch" but I chose it 
because of it's relevancy to Egypt.

And I've been following the proposals of the would-be 51st state 
Senator's fear of the Internet (not to mention he also represents 
companies in that 51st state that want to sell gear to control the 
Internet).

Last night during the 8-9 PM time on KGO, San Francisco's biggest AM 
station Peter B Collins had an interesting interview with someone in 
Cairo who was able to get through to him.  You can find the podcast of 
that show (for the next week as they cycle out each week) here:

http://vaca.bayradio.com/kgo_archives/?d=6#
(click on the 8-9 PM slot and they provide a link and instructions for 
downloading it).

I also heard on mainstream news yesterday that protesters were headed 
for the gated communities of the rich.  At least they understand who 
pulls the strings in that country.  Good for them!  It's time for the 
rule of the money addicts to end.

I think our government fears that this might go so viral it would happen 
here.  But even Thomas Jefferson suggested that when things get so out 
of whack a revolution would be inevitable to fix things.  Depending on 
change by our representatives in government is a joke anymore not to 
mention way too slow.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[merudanda]

How did the country manage to shut off the Internet?
According to Gigaom:
http://gigaom.com/2011/01/28/how-egypt-switched-off-the-internet/
http://tinyurl.com/6cvum83
   "The signs are that the Egyptian authorities have taken a very careful
and well-planned method to screen off internet addresses at every level,
from users inside the country trying to get out and from the rest of the
world trying to get in.

 "It looks like they're taking action at two levels," Rik Ferguson of
Trend Micro told me. "First at the DNS level, so any attempt to resolve
any address in .eg will fail -- but also, in case you're trying to get
directly to an address, they are also using the Border Gateway Protocol,
the system through which ISPs advertise their internet protocol
addresses to the network. Many ISPs have basically stopped advertising
any internet addresses at all."

The Telegraph added some insight :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/828\
8163/How-Egypt-shut-down-the-internet.html
http://tinyurl.com/4s7elmg
" The shut down involved the withdrawal of more than 3,500 Border
Gateway Protocol (BGP) routes by Egyptian ISPs, according to Renesys, a
networking firm. Only one ISP out of 10, Noor Data Networks, appeared
largely unaffected. It connects to the outside world via an undersea
cable operated by Telecom Italia.According to BGPMon, another networking
firm, 88 per cent of Egyptian internet access was successfully shut
down, however."

Yet, the Egyptian Stock Exchange is still functioning,!!
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/01/28/472776/in-pharaohs-markets/
http://tinyurl.com/48trll2

"But you'd really have to ask what the hell you're doing investing in
this country -- its banks, its telecoms, and its transport
infrastructure -- if security forces can block it all off at a moment's
notice. You're investing upon Pharaoh's terms. That's why keeping the
exchange site open is astonishing -- it just makes the charade
transparent. "


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
> >
> > It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> "This presumably happened at the government's request, though it's
worth noting that they haven't admitted anything."
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp

However another official has said they didn't pay their bill this month
& one says that Egypt's ISP is BT & it's peek time so it's SLOW  ..LOL
Can't you imagine Pres.Obama via Youtube telling "his" people the
government are out of funds because of the Chinesejust a crazy
image/idea to release some smoke out from the lung



> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
>
>  What is most likely is that somebody in the government made a phone
call to a small number of people and says, `Turn it off.' And then
one engineer at each service provider logs into the equipment and
changes the configuration of how traffic should flow.

It was likely as easy as that.
 * Telecom Egypt (AS8452), the national incumbent, starts the process
at 22:12:43.
 * Raya joins in a minute later, at 22:13:26.
 * Link Egypt (AS24863) begins taking themselves down 4 minutes
later, at 22:17:10.
 * Etisalat Misr (AS32992) goes two minutes later, at 22:19:02
 * Internet Egypt (AS5536) goes six minutes later, at 22:25:10.

First impressions: this sequencing looks like people getting phone
calls, one at a time, telling them to take themselves off the air. Not
an automated system that takes all providers down at once; instead, the
incumbent leads and other providers follow meekly one by one until Egypt
is silenced
Egypt's "kill switch" experiment will serve as a cautionary tale: the
economic and reputational costs of the shutdown far exceed the benefits
of regaining total information control.
Almost all the Egyptian IP address ranges fell off the 'Net, as reported
by Renesys. The Renesys post talks about BGP prefixes disappearing. That
could be either cause or effect. A prefix is simply BGP-talk for a range
of IP addresses. For instance, the range 192.0.2.0-192.0.2.255 is the
prefix 192.0.2/24. The number after the slash indicates how many bits
are part of the prefix. The remaining bits are to be filled in later.
BGP, the Border Gateway Protocol, is a routing protocol that is used
between the routers on either side of the border between two
ISPs—"gateway" is an old-fashioned word for "router."
Building Reliable Networks with the Border Gateway Protocol
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596002541/
http://tinyurl.com/4abqzsf
Internet routing shows growing pains?again
http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/01/internet-routing-growing-pa\
ins.ars
http://tinyurl.com/4gusqrd
Cutting the fiberoptic cables an option!?



>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[merudanda]

But like in Egypt, in Europe almost all interconnection happens in the
capitals of the countries involved So in Egypt or many medium-sized
countries, killing the connections between ISPs wouldn't be too hard.
Right. In the US, this would be quite difficult,because the country is
so large, and traffic volumes are so high, large networks may
interconnect in as many as 20 cities. Numerous intercontinental sea
cables land in the Boston, New York, Washington DC, Miami, Los Angeles,
and Seattle regions.
  There appear to have been no significant disruptions to other
countries' traffic passing through Egypt on fiberoptic cables such as
SMW-4 and FLAG FEA, the majority of Internet connectivity between Europe
and Asia actually passes through Egypt. The Gulf states, in particular,
depend critically on the Egyptian fiberoptic corridor for their
connectivity to world markets. Commodity traders are already nervous
about the potential impacts on oil prices of any closure of the Suez
Canal, but the potential risks to global Internet connectivity through
Egypt are equally significant, and far less widely understood.

Are the folks at Davos thinking about this? They should be.IMHO


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
> >
> > It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
>
> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
>
>
>   You will have
> > awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it
> > kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that
> > Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather
limited
> > but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers
and
> > opened them up to create wide area hotspots.
> >
> > On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
> > > If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty
chilling.
> > >
> > > If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:
> > >
> > >
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
> > >

> > >
> > > It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and
after the
> > > government shut it off.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/29/2011 04:54 PM, authfriend wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
>  It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> >>> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> >>> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> >>> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
> >> I'll pardon the pun.
> >>
> >> Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
> >> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp
> > Did you read this article, Bhairitu? It says just what
> > I said.
> 
> I think you parsed it wrong.

It says just what I said.

> > And you might want to read a little more about Lieberman's
> > bill.
> 
> Been quite aware for months about Lieberman's bill.

Yes. I think you might want to read a little more
about it.

> >> I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
> >> if you do shut down telecommunications?
> >
> > I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> > disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> > wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> > really going on.
> >
> > 
> 
> Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D

Did you not see the ""?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/29/2011 04:54 PM, authfriend wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu   wrote:
 It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
>>> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
>>> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
>>> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
>> I'll pardon the pun.
>>
>> Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp
> Did you read this article, Bhairitu? It says just what
> I said.

I think you parsed it wrong.
> And you might want to read a little more about Lieberman's
> bill.
>

Been quite aware for months about Lieberman's bill.

>> I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
>> if you do shut down telecommunications?
> I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> really going on.
>
> 

Now who sounds like a conspiracy theorist? :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:54 PM, authfriend  wrote:

>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> > >> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> > > Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> > > Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> > > it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
> >
> > I'll pardon the pun.
> >
> > Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
> > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp
>
> Did you read this article, Bhairitu? It says just what
> I said.
>
> And you might want to read a little more about Lieberman's
> bill.
>
> > I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
> > if you do shut down telecommunications?
>
> I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
> disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
> wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
> really going on.
>
> 
>
>
Seems perfectly clear, if there's a mole here, who it might be.  The editor
as our cyber security advisor.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> > Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> > Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> > it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
> 
> I'll pardon the pun.
> 
> Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp

Did you read this article, Bhairitu? It says just what
I said.

And you might want to read a little more about Lieberman's
bill.

> I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens
> if you do shut down telecommunications?

I wonder if Bhairitu is a government agent planted here to
disseminate disinformation and send us chasing after
wild-ass conspiracy theories rather than looking at what's
really going on.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

On 01/29/2011 01:23 PM, authfriend wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.
> Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
> Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
> it down. That would be virtually impossible here.
>

I'll pardon the pun.

Egypt Flips Internet Kill Switch. Will the U.S.?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2376905,00.asp

I wonder if this was sort of a test case to see what happens if you do 
shut down telecommunications?

Also I wonder if any enterprising Egyptian techies with Android 2.2 
(Froyo) phones and pads just created their own portable wifi hotspot to 
post information?  You can do that with Android 2.2.  Don't know if it 
is possible with an iPad.

>You will have
>> awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it
>> kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that
>> Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather limited
>> but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers and
>> opened them up to create wide area hotspots.
>>
>> On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
>>> If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty chilling.
>>>
>>> If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
>>> 
>>>
>>> It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and after the
>>> government shut it off.
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.

Uh, they won't try that here. Egypt has only four major
Internet access providers, so it's fairly simple to shut
it down. That would be virtually impossible here.


  You will have 
> awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it 
> kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that 
> Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather limited 
> but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers and 
> opened them up to create wide area hotspots.
> 
> On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
> > If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty chilling.
> >
> > If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
> > 
> >
> > It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and after the
> > government shut it off.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Bhairitu]

It they *dare* try that here all hell *will* break out.  You will have 
awakened a large part of the tech community who *will* not take it 
kindly and provide technology for an insurgency.   I heard that 
Egyptians are even communicating via Bluetooth.  That's rather limited 
but  works.  Bet some have even put antennas on their wifi routers and 
opened them up to create wide area hotspots.

On 01/28/2011 08:40 PM, authfriend wrote:
> If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty chilling.
>
> If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html
> 
>
> It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and after the
> government shut it off.
>
>
>
>
> [http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/28/technology/20110129_CUTO\
> FF_INLINE/20110129_CUTOFF_INLINE-articleInline.jpg]
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> Live and direct from Cairo courtesy of Al-Jazeera:
>> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/al-jazeera/
>>
>> This summer is going to be a riot!
>>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[blusc0ut]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:01 PM, blusc0ut  wrote:
> 
> > >
> > Demonstrators action plan:
> >
> > http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/egyptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
> >
> >
> > Most Austinites and few visitors know that the South Congress Bridge was
> renamed to the Governor Ann Richards Bridge after former Governor Richards
> died.  That's right, the bat shit bridge.  It was named after Governor
> Richards because she used to say in her campaign speeches that come January,
> she and the people of Texas were going to march across that bridge to the
> Capital and take back the government of Texas for the people.   So these are
> instructions for the people of FF walking up Rt 1 and taking back the domes
> for the meditators of FF?   Why no Marshy sezzz shields?

Lol. I just read in some discussion that these kind of instructions are fairly 
common with Attac groups, for example at G8 protests, where you have public 
protesters, police representing the government etc. That wouldn't be the case 
here. We are in a large democratic society, well most of us ;-), so anybody 
dissatisfied with the TM movement can just bail out, that is the most easy 
solution.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[authfriend]

If this graphic comes through, it speaks for itself. Pretty chilling.

If it doesn't come through, you can find it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html


It's a graph of Internet traffic to and from Egypt before and after the
government shut it off.



 
[http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/28/technology/20110129_CUTO\
FF_INLINE/20110129_CUTOFF_INLINE-articleInline.jpg]




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Live and direct from Cairo courtesy of Al-Jazeera:
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/al-jazeera/
>
> This summer is going to be a riot!
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:49 PM, seventhray1 wrote:

>
>
> But can we trust this video?  Everyone knows there is little wind in Cairo,
> and yet there is a flag in the upper corner blowing strongly.  Also, did you
> notice the shadows?  If this were shot near midday, those shadows should
> have been a little longer.  I think I need to see a little stonger evidence.
>
>
The Nile River is in a valley that averages about 20 miles wide.  Yup,
that's how big the Nile's been. The wind rips through the Nile Valley and
propels falukas (Egyptian sale boats) very readily.  I know people who took
a holiday and traveled, via faluka all the way from the tip of Upper Egypt
to Alexandria.  I've experienced two dust/rain storms along the Nile.   Car
windows blown right out by the wind.   Every door in my flat blown open,
every horizontal surface in my flat covered with 1/2 inch of dust/silt.
What I've experienced in Phoenix and Tucson before a rainstorm kicked the
dust around literally sandblasting the paint off of cars was a walk in the
garden compared to the storms, particularly wind I've experienced in Egypt.
Now on the edges of the valley the wind kicks up even more furiously.
Reminded me when I lived 20 miles west of Phoenix and got on a bicycle
towards dark and rode east 10 miles without ever having to peddle, air
cooling and shrinking as the sun went down.

But you're trying to make a joke here.  Give it up.  Not even bacteria can
live passing through the Van Allen Belt.  We didn't go to the moon.

Anyone else get the feeling that Obama was not talking to Mubarak but
directly to the people of Egypt during his speech?  I have met so many
military men.  Young, naive, wanting to be hip.   Military service is
compulsory and the less schooling you get, the longer your service.   Small
wonder the troops were cheered into Cairo.   Remember, Sadat was gunned down
by the military.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[seventhray1]

But can we trust this video?  Everyone knows there is little wind in
Cairo, and yet there is a flag in the upper corner blowing strongly. 
Also, did you notice the shadows?  If this were shot near midday, those
shadows should have been a little longer.  I think I need to see a
little stonger evidence.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Live and direct from Cairo courtesy of Al-Jazeera:
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/al-jazeera/
>
> This summer is going to be a riot!
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[Tom Pall]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:01 PM, blusc0ut  wrote:

> >
> Demonstrators action plan:
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/egyptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
>
>
> Most Austinites and few visitors know that the South Congress Bridge was
renamed to the Governor Ann Richards Bridge after former Governor Richards
died.  That's right, the bat shit bridge.  It was named after Governor
Richards because she used to say in her campaign speeches that come January,
she and the people of Texas were going to march across that bridge to the
Capital and take back the government of Texas for the people.   So these are
instructions for the people of FF walking up Rt 1 and taking back the domes
for the meditators of FF?   Why no Marshy sezzz shields?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch the Egyptian Riots Live

[blusc0ut]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Bhairitu  wrote:
> 
> > On 01/28/2011 10:01 AM, Tom Pall wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Bhairitu
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Live and direct from Cairo courtesy of Al-Jazeera:
> > >> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/al-jazeera/
> > >>
> > >> This summer is going to be a riot!
> >
> 
> Well, finally we once again have peace in the Middle East.  Mubarak, the 30
> year tyrant, has asked for the resignation of his government.  Yeah.  It's
> not a principle of respondeat superior.  All along I thought torture of
> arrestees was was the president's doing.  Now of course I see that it was
> his government's doing.   Notice how the press conference at the White House
> kept saying that Obama had not spoken to Mubarac?   They are not a US puppet
> after all, except that the 2nd largest source of income for Egypt IRRC is US
> foreign aid, the first being money Egyptian expats make abroad and sent
> home.
> 
> 
> In other news, Israel is banking on the status and expecting the quo in the
> Middle East.
> 
> 
> This thing about the US being in the same state as Portugal and the WB's
> going to dis the US?  Come on, now.  The WB's not a puppet of the US?
>
Demonstrators action plan:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/egyptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/