[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: Gillam wrote: Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? Nois he the one that wrote the book Master and Commander made into the Russell Crowe movie? The very same. I shoulda referred to the movie, but didn't think of it in favor of being an elitist book snob. - Patrick P.S. The movie was very true to the books. Wonderfully, exceptionally so. Russell Crowe called it a $327 million art film. In the world of elitist historical novel book snobs, O'Brien is very respected as an author. I haven't read any yet, because I can't tear myself away from Dorothy Dunnett, pretty much the ultimate goddess of elitist historical novel book snobs. :-) The film was quite well done. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His big breakout role was, of course, as the cop in L.A. Confidential but prior to that, Crowe did a film with Bridgette Fonda called Rough Magic that was really wonderful. I recommend it to anyone that can find it on DVD. Agreed. Charming little movie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course, people are always free to do what they like, but are you comfortable with advising people so cavalierly to go explicitly against the wishes of the guy who taught them in the first place? If the guy has gone crazy, absolutely. But you're *certain* the's gone crazy? Me? Yeah, I'm pretty convinced of it. Only with this post have I seen the parallel: The Caine Mutiny. The independent TM teachers are mutineers who've done what they've done to save the ship. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046816/ In the book, though -- I don't remember if the movie covers this ground or not -- Queeg is vindicated in the end. In a way. In the movie, the last scene -- after the alleged mutineers triumph at court and are found not guilty -- is the celebration of the acquited and their friends. Then their advocate -- played by Jose Ferrer -- comes in drunk and says that they and himself all let down Queeg because they should have been a friend to him. from http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/caine-mutiny- text.html Keefer quickly said, Speaking, from ignorance, sir, my, understanding is that mental disability is a relative thing. Captain Queeg was a very strict disciplinarian, and extremely meticulous in hunting down the smallest matters, and quite insistent in having his own way in all things. He was not the easiest person in the world to reason with. It wasn't my place to question his judgments, but there were several occasions when I thought he bore down too hard and spent excessive time on small matters. Those are the things that were recorded in the medical log. They were very unpleasant. But to jump from them to a conclusion that the captain was a maniac -I was compelled in all honesty to warn Maryk against doing that. - testimony by officer Keefer Queeg deserved better at my hands. I owed him a favor, 'don't you see? He stopped Hermann Goering from washing his fat behind with my mother. - the attorney Greenwald to the acquitted officers of the Caine Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
Comment below. Gillam: In the book, though -- I don't remember if the movie covers this ground or not -- Queeg is vindicated in the end. shempmcgurk: In a way. In the movie, the last scene -- after the alleged mutineers triumph at court and are found not guilty -- is the celebration of the acquited and their friends. Then their advocate -- played by Jose Ferrer -- comes in drunk and says that they and himself all let down Queeg because they should have been a friend to him. Is that how it played? I want to see that movie again. The quote at the very bottom of this post is by Ferrer's character, Greenwald. He feels bad because men like Queeg -- whom Greenwald humiliated -- were on the front lines against the Nazis, who in turn wanted to turn all the Jews into soap. In what I read at the link below, Greenwald's point is not that the crew should have been a friend to Queeg, but that Queeg deserves respect for being the man on duty when war broke out, and all the rest of the officers who were to meet on the Caine were still in school or otherwise doing their civilian thing. The Caine Mutiny is an interesting metaphor for the TMO because, although we can argue that Maharishi is acting from dementia now, he was the guy who tried to save us from our own madness, and for some of us, succeeded. - patrick --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course, people are always free to do what they like, but are you comfortable with advising people so cavalierly to go explicitly against the wishes of the guy who taught them in the first place? If the guy has gone crazy, absolutely. But you're *certain* the's gone crazy? Me? Yeah, I'm pretty convinced of it. Only with this post have I seen the parallel: The Caine Mutiny. The independent TM teachers are mutineers who've done what they've done to save the ship. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046816/ In the book, though -- I don't remember if the movie covers this ground or not -- Queeg is vindicated in the end. In a way. In the movie, the last scene -- after the alleged mutineers triumph at court and are found not guilty -- is the celebration of the acquited and their friends. Then their advocate -- played by Jose Ferrer -- comes in drunk and says that they and himself all let down Queeg because they should have been a friend to him. from http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/caine-mutiny- text.html Keefer quickly said, Speaking, from ignorance, sir, my, understanding is that mental disability is a relative thing. Captain Queeg was a very strict disciplinarian, and extremely meticulous in hunting down the smallest matters, and quite insistent in having his own way in all things. He was not the easiest person in the world to reason with. It wasn't my place to question his judgments, but there were several occasions when I thought he bore down too hard and spent excessive time on small matters. Those are the things that were recorded in the medical log. They were very unpleasant. But to jump from them to a conclusion that the captain was a maniac -I was compelled in all honesty to warn Maryk against doing that. - testimony by officer Keefer Queeg deserved better at my hands. I owed him a favor, 'don't you see? He stopped Hermann Goering from washing his fat behind with my mother. - the attorney Greenwald to the acquitted officers of the Caine Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
shempmcgurk wrote: As for being on the front line against the Nazis, my memory is that their boat was in the Pacific, not the Atlantic. Right you are. Greenwald is generalizing from Queeg to all career warriors everywhere. I do remember it being one of the best roles Humphrey Bogart played I read that Ferrer was brilliant in his portrayal of Greenwald, too. The Caine Mutiny is an interesting metaphor for the TMO because, although we can argue that Maharishi is acting from dementia now, he was the guy who tried to save us from our own madness, and for some of us, succeeded. Interesting metaphor. Of course, the crew of the boat had access to Queeg. 99.9% of the troops in the TMO haven't had access to MMY in years OR the ability to interact with him to tell him how they feel about things. Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? They deal with the isolation of the captain. No one to talk to, to confide in. It was against the culture of the service for the captain to solicit input from his officers. The officers didn't offer their opinions, either, nor even speak to the captain unless spoken to. I wonder if those taboos continue to this day. Any naval veterans here to speak to that? In The Caine Mutiny, there sure as heck isn't any fraternization between Queeg and his officers. And from what Rick and others have reported, Maharishi doesn't brook opposing opinions either. So access is only part of the problem. - Patrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: As for being on the front line against the Nazis, my memory is that their boat was in the Pacific, not the Atlantic. Right you are. Greenwald is generalizing from Queeg to all career warriors everywhere. I do remember it being one of the best roles Humphrey Bogart played I read that Ferrer was brilliant in his portrayal of Greenwald, too. The Caine Mutiny is an interesting metaphor for the TMO because, although we can argue that Maharishi is acting from dementia now, he was the guy who tried to save us from our own madness, and for some of us, succeeded. Interesting metaphor. Of course, the crew of the boat had access to Queeg. 99.9% of the troops in the TMO haven't had access to MMY in years OR the ability to interact with him to tell him how they feel about things. Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? Nois he the one that wrote the book Master and Commander made into the Russell Crowe movie? They deal with the isolation of the captain. No one to talk to, to confide in. It was against the culture of the service for the captain to solicit input from his officers. The officers didn't offer their opinions, either, nor even speak to the captain unless spoken to. I wonder if those taboos continue to this day. Any naval veterans here to speak to that? I'm not one, but that more accurately describes Queeg's situation vis a vis The Caine Mutiny. In The Caine Mutiny, there sure as heck isn't any fraternization between Queeg and his officers. And from what Rick and others have reported, Maharishi doesn't brook opposing opinions either. So access is only part of the problem. - Patrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
shempmcgurk wrote: Gillam wrote: Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? Nois he the one that wrote the book Master and Commander made into the Russell Crowe movie? The very same. I shoulda referred to the movie, but didn't think of it in favor of being an elitist book snob. - Patrick P.S. The movie was very true to the books. Wonderfully, exceptionally so. Russell Crowe called it a $327 million art film. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: Gillam wrote: Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? Nois he the one that wrote the book Master and Commander made into the Russell Crowe movie? The very same. I shoulda referred to the movie, but didn't think of it in favor of being an elitist book snob. - Patrick P.S. The movie was very true to the books. Wonderfully, exceptionally so. Russell Crowe called it a $327 million art film. What a great movie! Like being there... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: Gillam wrote: Have you read the Aubrey-Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien? Nois he the one that wrote the book Master and Commander made into the Russell Crowe movie? The very same. I shoulda referred to the movie, but didn't think of it in favor of being an elitist book snob. - Patrick P.S. The movie was very true to the books. Wonderfully, exceptionally so. Russell Crowe called it a $327 million art film. Although his activities in his private life are questionable, I'm almost always impressed by his choice of film roles. His big breakout role was, of course, as the cop in L.A. Confidential but prior to that, Crowe did a film with Bridgette Fonda called Rough Magic that was really wonderful. I recommend it to anyone that can find it on DVD. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Caine Mutiny (was Re: press report)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course, people are always free to do what they like, but are you comfortable with advising people so cavalierly to go explicitly against the wishes of the guy who taught them in the first place? If the guy has gone crazy, absolutely. But you're *certain* the's gone crazy? Me? Yeah, I'm pretty convinced of it. Only with this post have I seen the parallel: The Caine Mutiny. The independent TM teachers are mutineers who've done what they've done to save the ship. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046816/ In the book, though -- I don't remember if the movie covers this ground or not -- Queeg is vindicated in the end. from http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/caine-mutiny-text.html Keefer quickly said, Speaking, from ignorance, sir, my, understanding is that mental disability is a relative thing. Captain Queeg was a very strict disciplinarian, and extremely meticulous in hunting down the smallest matters, and quite insistent in having his own way in all things. He was not the easiest person in the world to reason with. It wasn't my place to question his judgments, but there were several occasions when I thought he bore down too hard and spent excessive time on small matters. Those are the things that were recorded in the medical log. They were very unpleasant. But to jump from them to a conclusion that the captain was a maniac -I was compelled in all honesty to warn Maryk against doing that. - testimony by officer Keefer Queeg deserved better at my hands. I owed him a favor, 'don't you see? He stopped Hermann Goering from washing his fat behind with my mother. - the attorney Greenwald to the acquitted officers of the Caine Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
