Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2011, at 8:53 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:

Coming to think of it, given the time frame, it is likely MMY was  
influenced to some degree by SA. SA, when the topic came up,  
somebody wanted to popularize his teachings in the US, saying that  
he should offer some courses, something like a formula, as this was  
sucessfull with Vivekanada and Yogananda, simply refused. MMY was  
at Aurobindo Ashram, I heard trying to persuade some Ashramite to  
join him. So his project of transforming world consciousness may  
well have been informed by SA. Also, the whole story about absolute  
body, sounds a lot like SA's supramental body. Creating a new man  
was really SA's project. SA regarded himself as a tantric yogi. So  
MMY may have taken the 'uniqueness' and 'rediscovery of a lost  
knowledge' as a traditionalists version of the new yoga.



It always seemed clear that Mahesh was getting material from both  
Aurobindo AND Yogananda - both of which are from his caste.

[FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:35 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:
> > 
> > > I for example compare the TM movement to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram,  
> > > where the last leader died about 40 years ago. I just met an old  
> > > lady, who works there in the Ashram since 40 years, is now 75 years  
> > > old, and to my opinion, has the typical TB mindset. She still  
> > > experienced the master (Mira Alfassa) about 3 years, if so, from a  
> > > distance (balcony darshans). And I just read a book by Peter Heehs  
> > > on Sri Aurobindo, and as I thought it was actually a very positive  
> > > review of his life. But it stirred up the whole Ashram, lead to a  
> > > huge controversy, the book is actually forbidden in India (the  
> > > lives of Sri Aurobindo), while most ashramites have read  
> > > photocopies. The book is published by the cambridge universtity  
> > > press, and directed to academics, not devotees. Yet it is in no way  
> > > deferrential, but it happens to mention certain biographic facts,  
> > > seen as a no no by the ashramites. Now the funny thing is, that the  
> > > ashram leadership, might actually have inspired the book, and is  
> > > not really against it. (they don't endorse it either) That in  
> > > itself is the reason for controversy, as it seems there is a group  
> > > of fundamentalists who want to overtake the Ashram. Right now there  
> > > are efforts on the way, to deprive Heehs of his visa, he lives  
> > > since decades in India, and was one of the main Ashram archivars,  
> > > the book was originally approved by the ashram leadership (without  
> > > reading it) before it was published.
> > >
> > > Also, the philospophy of Aurobindo is elitary, by definition, he  
> > > says that nobody before embarked on this type of yoga or knowledge.  
> > > So, for Ashramites, anybody practicing a more traditional form of  
> > > yoga misses out on the new yoga. (The old yoga has its basis in the  
> > > 'overmind', with all its gods, which is something like 'supermind'  
> > > gone wrong) And the only way is to be devoted to SA and / or Mirra  
> > > Alfassa. There is a similar idea like in TM, that 'we are the ones  
> > > doing the transformation for the world, unprecedented, for all  
> > > times to come' And it's all there in the writings of SA.
> > 
> > 
> > You have to wonder how much of this is part of their caste mindsets,  
> > as both Mahesh and Aurobindo come from the same caste.
> >
> Really? I didn't know that. Caste always plays a role in India, but bear in 
> mind that SA was educated in England. While I think that it plays a definte 
> role with MMY, I don't think that SA would subscribe to it. But it may be 
> there subconsciously, go to SA Ashram, most Indians there are from either 
> Bengal or Orissa, but the local Tamils there are like the servants, same in 
> Auroville, not present in the leadership. 
> 
> Yet SA was already a star much before he became a guru, after he was 
> imprisoned in Alipur by the English, he was an independence fighter around 
> 1906-1910, much before Gandhi appeared on the scene in the 1930ies, he 
> actually coined the words 'passive resisitence', which was finally 
> popularised by Gandhi (in a different, more exclusive way). People saw in him 
> a guru before he became a spiritual figure. He was always used to being 
> looked up to and attracted masses.
>

Coming to think of it, given the time frame, it is likely MMY was influenced to 
some degree by SA. SA, when the topic came up, somebody wanted to popularize 
his teachings in the US, saying that he should offer some courses, something 
like a formula, as this was sucessfull with Vivekanada and Yogananda, simply 
refused. MMY was at Aurobindo Ashram, I heard trying to persuade some Ashramite 
to join him. So his project of transforming world consciousness may well have  
been informed by SA. Also, the whole story about absolute body, sounds a lot 
like SA's supramental body. Creating a new man was really SA's project. SA 
regarded himself as a tantric yogi. So MMY may have taken the 'uniqueness' and 
'rediscovery of a lost knowledge' as a traditionalists version of the new yoga.

[FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:35 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:
> 
> > I for example compare the TM movement to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram,  
> > where the last leader died about 40 years ago. I just met an old  
> > lady, who works there in the Ashram since 40 years, is now 75 years  
> > old, and to my opinion, has the typical TB mindset. She still  
> > experienced the master (Mira Alfassa) about 3 years, if so, from a  
> > distance (balcony darshans). And I just read a book by Peter Heehs  
> > on Sri Aurobindo, and as I thought it was actually a very positive  
> > review of his life. But it stirred up the whole Ashram, lead to a  
> > huge controversy, the book is actually forbidden in India (the  
> > lives of Sri Aurobindo), while most ashramites have read  
> > photocopies. The book is published by the cambridge universtity  
> > press, and directed to academics, not devotees. Yet it is in no way  
> > deferrential, but it happens to mention certain biographic facts,  
> > seen as a no no by the ashramites. Now the funny thing is, that the  
> > ashram leadership, might actually have inspired the book, and is  
> > not really against it. (they don't endorse it either) That in  
> > itself is the reason for controversy, as it seems there is a group  
> > of fundamentalists who want to overtake the Ashram. Right now there  
> > are efforts on the way, to deprive Heehs of his visa, he lives  
> > since decades in India, and was one of the main Ashram archivars,  
> > the book was originally approved by the ashram leadership (without  
> > reading it) before it was published.
> >
> > Also, the philospophy of Aurobindo is elitary, by definition, he  
> > says that nobody before embarked on this type of yoga or knowledge.  
> > So, for Ashramites, anybody practicing a more traditional form of  
> > yoga misses out on the new yoga. (The old yoga has its basis in the  
> > 'overmind', with all its gods, which is something like 'supermind'  
> > gone wrong) And the only way is to be devoted to SA and / or Mirra  
> > Alfassa. There is a similar idea like in TM, that 'we are the ones  
> > doing the transformation for the world, unprecedented, for all  
> > times to come' And it's all there in the writings of SA.
> 
> 
> You have to wonder how much of this is part of their caste mindsets,  
> as both Mahesh and Aurobindo come from the same caste.
>
Really? I didn't know that. Caste always plays a role in India, but bear in 
mind that SA was educated in England. While I think that it plays a definte 
role with MMY, I don't think that SA would subscribe to it. But it may be there 
subconsciously, go to SA Ashram, most Indians there are from either Bengal or 
Orissa, but the local Tamils there are like the servants, same in Auroville, 
not present in the leadership. 

Yet SA was already a star much before he became a guru, after he was imprisoned 
in Alipur by the English, he was an independence fighter around 1906-1910, much 
before Gandhi appeared on the scene in the 1930ies, he actually coined the 
words 'passive resisitence', which was finally popularised by Gandhi (in a 
different, more exclusive way). People saw in him a guru before he became a 
spiritual figure. He was always used to being looked up to and attracted masses.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:35 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:

I for example compare the TM movement to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram,  
where the last leader died about 40 years ago. I just met an old  
lady, who works there in the Ashram since 40 years, is now 75 years  
old, and to my opinion, has the typical TB mindset. She still  
experienced the master (Mira Alfassa) about 3 years, if so, from a  
distance (balcony darshans). And I just read a book by Peter Heehs  
on Sri Aurobindo, and as I thought it was actually a very positive  
review of his life. But it stirred up the whole Ashram, lead to a  
huge controversy, the book is actually forbidden in India (the  
lives of Sri Aurobindo), while most ashramites have read  
photocopies. The book is published by the cambridge universtity  
press, and directed to academics, not devotees. Yet it is in no way  
deferrential, but it happens to mention certain biographic facts,  
seen as a no no by the ashramites. Now the funny thing is, that the  
ashram leadership, might actually have inspired the book, and is  
not really against it. (they don't endorse it either) That in  
itself is the reason for controversy, as it seems there is a group  
of fundamentalists who want to overtake the Ashram. Right now there  
are efforts on the way, to deprive Heehs of his visa, he lives  
since decades in India, and was one of the main Ashram archivars,  
the book was originally approved by the ashram leadership (without  
reading it) before it was published.


Also, the philospophy of Aurobindo is elitary, by definition, he  
says that nobody before embarked on this type of yoga or knowledge.  
So, for Ashramites, anybody practicing a more traditional form of  
yoga misses out on the new yoga. (The old yoga has its basis in the  
'overmind', with all its gods, which is something like 'supermind'  
gone wrong) And the only way is to be devoted to SA and / or Mirra  
Alfassa. There is a similar idea like in TM, that 'we are the ones  
doing the transformation for the world, unprecedented, for all  
times to come' And it's all there in the writings of SA.



You have to wonder how much of this is part of their caste mindsets,  
as both Mahesh and Aurobindo come from the same caste.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[Bob Price]

From: turquoiseb 


Synchronistically, I found the following testimonial from a course 
participant on another forum:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRdc3a0BmCo




   

[FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> Well they could say that:
> 
> - staring at the LED man helps create world peace.
> - staring at the LED man enlivens the unified field (Mr. 
> Wizard, John Hagelin appears from behind a curtain with 
> a chart and a dizzying Powerpoint presentation).
> - and my favorite part: the scientific research on LED 
> man (Fred Travis appear from behind a curtain, carrying 
> a chart and yet another dizzying PPT presentation).

Consider this a prophecy, Vaj. :-)

> On Dec 8, 2011, at 3:42 AM, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > 
> > But YMMV. I, for one, look forward to more "testi-
> > monials" from the TBs about this one. That should
> > be amusing. My tummy feels better just anticipating
> > the laughter. :-)

Synchronistically, I found the following testimonial 
from a course participant on another forum:

"I am just AMAZED at how profound the experience
was for me subjectively, and how much of that 
experience of the awesome Woo Woo of the Ved has 
been established in my physiology so far. For 
example, even though as we all know from Raja
Raam's book that Vedic bodies have no genitals, as 
the LED lights near that region started blinking 
I cognized an ancient voice chanting something that 
sounded like 'Om Money Pudendum Hung' and found my 
attention slipping to the...uh...second chakra 
region of my own body. Almost instantly I felt a 
tingling sensation in that area, and when I checked 
later at home, I found that my genital warts had 
disappeared. Cured...completely gone...no trace of 
them any more. Even more blissful, I could swear 
that my lingam is now at least an inch longer than 
it was before I took the course. Jai Guru Dev."

:-)  :-)  :-)

[FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
 I see it as
> almost a purely intellectual technique, similar to
> Kabbalists gazing at and focusing on that study's
> intricate diagrams of *their* fundamentalist theories
> of How Everything Works. Or Westerners doing the same
> gazing/focusing on cards from the tarot. 

Kabbalah is what came to my mind too. You really cover almost all of the 
points. I wouldn't go quite as far as saying it is only there to make you feel 
special /elite, but see it definitely there as a side effect. 

I do not believe in the correspondences between vedas and physiology, or cosmic 
'correlations' as given by Nader Ram, the actual reason he was made king. But, 
Bhairatu might update us here, all the tantras are full at corelations between 
the (subtle) body and the cosmos. I think that the examples given by Nader Ram 
are simply analogies. For example, an organ has a certain form, maybe looking 
like the head of a horse, then there is a reference of horses in the vedas 
somewhere horses are mentioned, and viola.

It's a belief-system, as so many others, and most belief systems, if they are 
not shared by too many people, tent to make them feel special in one way or the 
other.

I for example compare the TM movement to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram, where the 
last leader died about 40 years ago. I just met an old lady, who works there in 
the Ashram since 40 years, is now 75 years old, and to my opinion, has the 
typical TB mindset.  She still experienced the master (Mira Alfassa) about 3 
years, if so, from a distance (balcony darshans). And I just read a book by 
Peter Heehs on Sri Aurobindo, and as I thought it was actually a very positive 
review of his life. But it stirred up the whole Ashram, lead to a huge 
controversy, the book is actually forbidden in India (the lives of Sri 
Aurobindo), while most ashramites have read photocopies. The book is published 
by the cambridge universtity press, and directed to academics, not devotees. 
Yet it is in no way deferrential, but it happens to mention certain biographic 
facts, seen as a no no by the ashramites. Now the funny thing is, that the 
ashram leadership, might actually have inspired the book, and is not really 
against it. (they don't endorse it either) That in itself is the reason for 
controversy, as it seems there is a group of fundamentalists who want to 
overtake the Ashram. Right now there are efforts on the way, to deprive Heehs 
of his visa, he lives since decades in India, and was one of the main Ashram 
archivars, the book was originally approved by the ashram leadership (without 
reading it) before it was published.

Also, the philospophy of Aurobindo is elitary, by definition, he says that 
nobody before embarked on this type of yoga or knowledge. So, for Ashramites, 
anybody practicing a more traditional form of yoga misses out on the new yoga. 
(The old yoga has its basis in the 'overmind', with all its gods, which is 
something like 'supermind' gone wrong) And the only way is to be devoted to SA 
and / or Mirra Alfassa. There is a similar idea like in TM, that 'we are the 
ones doing the transformation for the world, unprecedented, for all times to 
come' And it's all there in the writings of SA.

Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2011, at 3:42 AM, turquoiseb  wrote:

> But by far your most insightful comment, Vaj, was
> speculating as to whether this moodmaking technique
> does anything to create true spiritual balance in
> those practicing it. Are we likely to see them 
> develop more compassion, or love, or a sense of
> equality with their fellow man as the result of
> staring at the LED Visible Man? 

Well they could say that:

- staring at the LED man helps create world peace.
- staring at the LED man enlivens the unified field (Mr. Wizard, John Hagelin 
appears from behind a curtain with a chart and a dizzying Powerpoint 
presentation).
- and my favorite part: the scientific research on LED man (Fred Travis appear 
from behind a curtain, carrying a chart and yet another dizzying PPT 
presentation).


> 
> I don't think so. I think the appeal is yet again
> to "We Are So Special Because We Know How Everything 
> Works" elitism, and the underlying message is yet
> again, "You don't get to feel this special unless
> you're on our approved list of People Who Are As
> Worthy As We Are and we issue you a pass to let
> you into the room, as soon as you've paid us for
> the privilege."
> 
> But YMMV. I, for one, look forward to more "testi-
> monials" from the TBs about this one. That should
> be amusing. My tummy feels better just anticipating
> the laughter. :-)

One could very well anticipate this heralds the end of something big - after 
all this is a technique totally from someone's head. T'ain't nuttin' Vedic 
about it, let alone spiritual. The transition from sullying these traditions 
and selling it to gullible westerners has now become selling something only 
very remotely Vedic (LED Purusha).

[FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:21 PM, Susan wrote:
> >
> > Well, $85 is rather inexpensive. Good for the TMO not 
> > to overcharge!!! Hope it really works for people. I 
> > always liked the parallels between the cosmic and the 
> > individual physiology. And in response to Barry, yes, 
> > sometimes placebos do work - at least for a while and 
> > more often with certain types of problems (pain). There 
> > is an interesting article in this week's New Yorker about 
> > placebos and the research being done at Harvard on the 
> > whole area.
> > 
> > Well, if I were out there, I would spring for this course. 
> > Sounds at the least sweet, and perhaps really powerful. 
> > And since I love all the astronomy and universe/multiverse/
> > black holes info and photos and concepts then this will at 
> > least feed into that fascination.
> > 
> > Did MMY himself develop this with Rajaram? Or is this 
> > really Rajaram's invention?
> 
> That's his whole trip for years now. It's what his overpriced 
> and overhyped book is about. But the question I'd want to know 
> is "how does this enhance my spiritual practice?" I'm afraid 
> the answer is: not at all, it's just knowledge, special 
> knowledge.
> 
> It's just groups of correspondences. What's the big deal if 
> it doesn't awaken me more, integrate me further or expand my 
> capacity for love?

Exactly. Interesting insights, Vaj. I was going to
let my "LED Visible Man" comment stand on its own,
but you've gotten me thinking about this, so I'll
rap some more. Or, as some would put it, "stink
the place up."  :-)

On one level, based on the little they've actually
said in the video or that Buck has hinted at, it seems
like very little more than an expansion on Maharishi's
"feel the body." Which is not a valueless exercise,
any more than the "Age Of Enlightenment" techniques
that some have compared this to is. There is IMO very
little actual harm in the process of placing one's
attention on various parts of the body. On the level
of the placebo effect, it may even have some value.

On another level, however, I think one can see this
as yet another example of Vedic Fundamentalism, yet
another WASSBWKHEW ("We Are So Special Because Ee
Know How Everything Works") technique. I see it as
almost a purely intellectual technique, similar to
Kabbalists gazing at and focusing on that study's
intricate diagrams of *their* fundamentalist theories
of How Everything Works. Or Westerners doing the same
gazing/focusing on cards from the tarot. 

It's IMO a technique in which True Believers in a 
philosophy that they have been told is "the highest"
or "the best" or 'really' How Everything Works are
taught to focus on the minutiae of those philosophies
or theories *to jumpstart an emotional reaction*. The
emotion (of having one's belief that one knows How
Everything Works and that you're oh-so special because
of that) is then translated in the practitioner's mind
into "subtle perceptions" (read "moodmaking") that the
focus is actually DOING SOMETHING.

That's what I suspect is going on here. All dressed up
in the TMO's clueless presentation layer. Even TBs 
will have to admit that "My tummy feels fine" is right
up there on the Cheezy Scale with the Maharishi Vedic
Honey ads. :-)

As someone in this thread opined, what they should have
done is make this essentially guided meditation into an
app. It would be *perfect* for one. Write it for the 
iPhone or the Android platform and sell it for $4.95 
on the Apple Store or the Android Store. Even better,
if you're an organization sitting on as much cash and
real estate as the TMO is, *give it away for free*. If
they really believed it would help people, that's what
a truly spiritual organization would do.

But that wouldn't achieve the other (IMO) goal of 
bringing out this "new knowledge," which is to come
up with yet another excuse to get people into rooms
together so that they can feed off of each others'
moodmaking energy and feel all "special" because they
are in the room and the Great Unwashed aren't. 

Part of what makes the placebo effect work is "group
mind." Placebo-based techniques testably "work" better
when performed in a group of people who all already
*expect* them to work than they do when performed on
one's own, at home. So *of course* they're going to
sell this as something that 'has to' be done in a 
group. It's part of the overall control freak mentality
that drives the TMO. Put enough TB TMers into one room
and show them a *porn video* ferchrissakes, and many
of them are going to come up with "testimonials" 
about how it revealed to them visions of Shiva 
gettin' it on with his consort. :-)

Based on what little has been said about this "new 
technique" (which is the furthest thing from that),
I don't see it doing much physical harm. And, as I've
said, it might actually do some individuals a little
good, on the level of what it really is, "feeling 
the body." The moving of a