[FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a "saint" who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or "guru" philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the "source" energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little "tiny Amma" doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of "non-judgement" and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an "energy transfer" or "hit" during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a "powerful person" energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our "questions" that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a "manhandled" hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the "form" to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel this overwhelming "love connection" that so many talked about. We received blessed candy and got the dolls blessed. Monday I was up at 6:15 to do the yoga class. Monday evening was Dhevi Bhava - lots of ceremony and long, translated talk that was starting to feel very top down and condescending. Blessed water, chanting to music, change in Amma's costume to the crown and gown, and the hugs began with the loud bhajans (music) sung by a swami and group in the background. The music/chanting was very loud, repetitive, and mesmerizing; the Swami's voice was very hypnotic; the Swami lectures were full of what seemed like very conflicting messages which confused me on several levels (is the underlying message that we should all pray to Amma as God?), and I was feeling like I was on some kind of wierd emotional and energetic high. I decided also that I wanted a mantra to aid me on my path of forgiveness. So I said the word "mantra" at the last hug as instructed. I knew nothing of mantras or initiation and clearly misunderstood what they are. I read the sheet passed around. I was shepherded into a circle with others and asked for my definition of God - I stated "the Universe." I was told that a mantra did not address any aspects of God, such as forgiveness, but that this would bring me closer to God and would be
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a "take what you need and leave the rest" attitude. I believe that "energy" you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
On 06/16/2011 10:46 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and > have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the > externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot > of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very > carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things > flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person > can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll > on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is > very Indian, even cult-like. I saw Ammachi only once while staying at the Kerela ashram. Funny thing was watching Indian teenagers throwing a tantrum because their parents had dragged them along and they didn't like being at an ashram with all the rules. I've visited the San Ramon ashram once when a friend was visiting and wanted to see but that was not when Ammachi was there. At the Kerela ashram I was talking to the videographer and realized the guy standing next to him was a TM mucky-mucky back in the day I knew. I also knew his wife who I spotted later in the distance. However after chatting with him I no longer saw them during the duration of the stay which made me wonder if they had some rule about talking to visitors who had known them in the past. ;-)
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
I respect the idea of "taking what works for you and leaving the rest." That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing "blind faith." For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a "saint" is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of "disappointment", "let down", or "betrayal" do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the "saint" or "organization" bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a "human" professing to be "realized." Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great "saint" at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an "all-knowing" statement. My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we could "pray to whoever our God was") I think this one aspect corrupted the value of the meditation unfortunately. I asked to join the examma group to try and educate myself from those who had a perspective or experience informed by years of following. I simply could not find a balanced perspective on the internet. These accounts can be found and they are interesting to say the least - all is not always as it appears on the outside. The site is moderated heavily as it is supposed to a safe place for ex-devotees to share their story with some privacy - there is fear, in some cases about repercussions and/or attack from current devotees and the organization - which some have experienced. Overall, while I do not qualify as an "ex-devotee", I was desperate to understand more and appreciate the opportunity to have reviewed the first-account postings which, admittedly, have to be sorted out from all of the other posts. The site has evolved over time as all sites do. The ammachi_free_zone site is public and open to discourse and some of the historical postings on that site are also interesting. While I personally think that Amma and the organization absolutely reflects a cult status in many aspects, I don't believe that this is all that it is. I shared my story mostly to encourage people to retain their right to question and objectively evaluate the experience as an individual soul. --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Rick Archer wrote: From: Rick Archer Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 10:46 AM Interesting, honest account. I’ve been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can’t dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a “take what you need and leave the rest” attitude. I believe that “energy” you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerf
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
Can’t argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, I’ve always been impressed with the caliber and “vibe” of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Amma’s followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well – bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesn’t have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I don’t know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But that’s just my opinion. YMMV. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I respect the idea of "taking what works for you and leaving the rest." That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing "blind faith." For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a "saint" is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of "disappointment", "let down", or "betrayal" do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the "saint" or "organization" bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a "human" professing to be "realized." Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great "saint" at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an "all-knowing" statement. My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we could "pray to whoever our God was") I think this one aspect corrupted the value of the meditation unfortunately. I asked to join the examma group to try and educate myself from those who had a perspective or experience informed by years of following. I simply could not find a balanced perspective on the internet. These accounts can be found and they are interesting to say the least - all is not always as it appears on the outside. The site is moderated heavily as it is supposed to a safe place for ex-devotees to share their story with some privacy - there is fear, in some cases about repercussions and/or attack from current devotees and the organization - which some have experienced. Overall, while I do not qualify as an "ex-devotee", I was desperate to understand more and appreciate the opportunity to have reviewed the first-account postings which, admittedly, have to be sorted out from all of the other posts. The site has evolved over time as all sites do. The ammachi_free_zone site is public and open to discourse and some of the historical postings on that site are also interesting. While I personally think that Amma and the organization absolutely reflects a cult status in
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
P.S. I’m a moderator of the Amma Free Speech Zone, as well as this group. I believe that free speech is a healthy thing, and should apply to Amma as well as TM and all other things. I don’t believe the ex-amma group reflects that attitude. If you’re in the least bit objective – i.e., willing to admit that there might be something positive about Amma – you’re not welcome.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
P.S. I find it hard to accept accusations of Amma serving her ego or being in it for the money. For decades now, she’s been on a routine that would kill most people in a month. What she does is grueling, and she suffers a lot of physical pain. Her humanitarian projects are substantial, despite the efforts of ex-Amma people to discredit them: http://www.amma.org/humanitarian-activities/index.html. That’s where the money goes. When she’s not travelling, her room in her ashram is small and plain. In the US, she doesn’t fly from place to place. She travels in the back of a mid-sized RV, purchased and driven by a friend of mine.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Rick Archer wrote: .S. I’m a moderator of the Amma Free Speech Zone, as well as this group. I believe that free speech is a healthy thing, and should apply to Amma as well as TM and all other things. I don’t believe the ex-amma group reflects that attitude. If you’re in the least bit objective – i.e., willing to admit that there might be something positive about Amma – you’re not welcome. Rick, could you post the links for both the Free Speech Zone as well as the ex-Amma group? Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 2:59 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma Rick, could you post the links for both the Free Speech Zone http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone as well as the ex-Amma group? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/examma/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
On Jun 17, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > Rick, could you post the links for both the Free Speech Zone > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ammachi_free_speech_zone > > > as well as the ex-Amma group? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/examma/ Thanks! Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind folks. And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be represented. Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of my experience. Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as a new prospective member. But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors. Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition." It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's. I do agree that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing. --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Rick Archer wrote: From: Rick Archer Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 11:37 AM Can’t argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, I’ve always been impressed with the caliber and “vibe” of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Amma’s followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well – bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesn’t have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I don’t know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But that’s just my opinion. YMMV. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I respect the idea of "taking what works for you and leaving the rest." That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing "blind faith." For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a "saint" is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of "disappointment", "let down", or "betrayal" do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the "saint" or "organization" bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a "human" professing to be "realized." Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great "saint" at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an "all-knowing" statement. My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we cou
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind folks. And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be represented. Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of my experience. Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as a new prospective member. But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors. Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition." It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's. I do agree that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing. In my dozen years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely recall any mention of “praying to Amma as God”. There is a point in the prayer Big Swami does after every group meditation where he refers to Amma as “Mother of the Universe”. I seem to recall that during the meditation instruction, Amma is suggested as one of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, if one wishes to have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it more specific? Maybe the reason I’m so vague on this is that the way I’m wired, things that don’t much resonate with me go in one ear and out the other. I really do take what I need and leave the rest.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
Could be that your filters are filtering it out - the message to pray to Amma and her lotus feet was reinforced on many levels over the weekend. Of course, like I mentioned, I was completely new to Hinduism and I jumped in to 3 days of immersion. I did read an interesting dissertation of late, that speaks to the way that Amma is changing hinduism, in part, simply because she is a female guru in what has been a male dominated tradition. Of course, I wonder if the message is tailored depending on the audience. Re: the IAM meditation that we all had to sign confidentiality agreements on...Amma's teachers indicated it was being taught in prisons and to corporate america. I thought it humorous, having spent many years working in a corporate environment that one would attend a "meditation" class and be given the visual of Amma's feet to bow down to. I can't even imagine all those suits...too funny. I bought a book called I AM by Howard Falco before the retreat - have just started it. Originally, I thought it might relate to the philosophy we were going to learn, and the cover is great. I like the first two statements.. "You are an infinite essence revealed in a finite expression, destined to experience the truth of all forms. Continually prodded and nudged into a restless sense of movement, forced to evolve by the winds of endless change. To humanity, know thyself." And. "The journey of self-awareness and self-creation is the very intent of life. The capability to understand your true nature, expand your consciousness, and "know thyself" is a birthright. You will not be denied in your search..." If there is one thing I currently acknowledge about the visit to Amma - the experience overall created a desire in me to understand more of my relationship to the Universe and myself as I am simply too deeply exhausted to continue in the way that I have lived until now. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, Rick Archer wrote: From: Rick Archer Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:47 AM From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind folks. And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be represented. Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of my experience. Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as a new prospective member. But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors. Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition." It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's. I do agree that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing. In my dozen years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely recall any mention of “praying to Amma as God”. There is a point in the prayer Big Swami does after every group meditation where he refers to Amma as “Mother of the Universe”. I seem to recall that during the meditation instruction, Amma is suggested as one of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, if one wishes to have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it more specific? Maybe the reason I’m so vague on this is that the way I’m wired, things that don’t much resonate with me go in one ear and out the other. I really do take what I need and leave the rest.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
Rick, I can appreciate that *you* are able to winnow out that which serves you from what doesn't. But...consider Denise's situation. A mother introducing two daughters to the Amma circus. Including one who is particularly impressionable. Who is likely not well protected by critical acumen. Of course... We regularly expose children to our family religions. Without exercising special concern about irrational imprinting that may occur. But perhaps this commonplace practice should be looked into as well. Harvey On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:47 -0500, "Rick Archer" wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups";>FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind folks. And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be represented. Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of my experience. Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as a new prospective member. But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors. Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition." It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's. I do agree that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing. In my dozen years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely recall any mention of “praying to Amma as God”. There is a point in the prayer Big Swami does after every group meditation where he refers to Amma as “Mother of the Universe”. I seem to recall that during the meditation instruction, Amma is suggested as one of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, if one wishes to have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it more specific? Maybe the reason I’m so vague on this is that the way I’m wired, things that don’t much resonate with me go in one ear and out the other. I really do take what I need and leave the rest. References 1. mailto:r...@searchsummit.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BFairfieldLife%5D%20Visit%20with%20Amma 2. mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BFairfieldLife%5D%20Visit%20with%20Amma 3. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydHZiMXQxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BG1zZ0lkAzI3OTg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM-?act=reply&messageNum=279859 4. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGUzZ29jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwODQxMjAxMw-- 5. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/279669;_ylc=X3oDMTM4ODhhcDYyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BG1zZ0lkAzI3OTg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTMEdHBjSWQDMjc5NjY5 6. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWZvZzFhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM-?o=6 7. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYTQwa3Z1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM- 8. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaHBnaGU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMwODQxMjAxMw-- 9. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ 10. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZGJ2amUwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzA4NDEyMDEz 11. mailto:fairfieldlife-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional 12. mailto:fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest 13. mailto:fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe 14. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
This is the larger point. Having done some rudimentary education for
myself..we subjected ourselves to 3 days of the Hindu belief system and its
ritual. Amma is a Hindu and her message is delivered within this religious
construct as "truth." I recently attended a funeral with a Baptist preacher
who informed the attendees that if we did not accept Jesus prior to death,
"heaven" would be denied to us. "Religions" are all used ultimately to explain
our existence and control the masses. I am not raising my children to follow
any religion - we have no crosses in the house and will have no Amma dolls or
pictures of Jesus or Amma either. I will encourage my children to take a
"comparative religion" class in college, however, to understand the different
constructs - if one stays big picture enough...they all recognize a "higher
energy" and as such"we are part of the whole." :)
--- On Sat, 6/18/11, haa...@fastmail.fm wrote:
From: haa...@fastmail.fm
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 10:29 AM
Rick,
I can appreciate that *you* are able to winnow out that which serves
you from what doesn't.
But...consider Denise's situation.
A mother introducing two daughters to the Amma circus.
Including one who is particularly impressionable.
Who is likely not well protected by critical acumen.
Of course...
We regularly expose children to our family religions.
Without exercising special concern about irrational imprinting that may
occur.
But perhaps this commonplace practice should be looked into as well.
Harvey
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:47 -0500, "Rick Archer"
wrote:
From:
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups";>FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Denise Evans
Sent:
Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM
To:
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
I like the point about the
caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind
folks. And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be
represented. Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to
Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of
my experience. Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church
because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as
a new prospective member. But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't
God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors. Now that I'm older and
also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition."
It doesn't appear that anyone&#
