Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
I agree with you that it is more than just produced in our bodies by we lame-ass yogis/yoginis. That's only one aspect of it. I've also experienced soma flowing/spraying into the environment through the senses. Almost like the sense was working in reverse. -Peter --- rudrani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Peter S. wrote [[The only soma I've experienced has > been internal. > It's the source of the bodily "bliss" from spiritual > practices.]] > ** i agree, however, i am also inclined to think, > based on the > literature available, there is more to it than that. > > i just sent a post off listing all the goodies i > have found on the > subject (in brief), part of that list was: Yoga + > Ananda = Soma, > which implies (as i wrote previously) a combination > of inner & outer > elements. > > om peace!.. > rudrani > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: rudrani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Mark wrote [[Sure, that sounds reasonable enough, but no less of a reason to seek out its identity.]] ** oh .. that is not my intent. i have loads of info on soma .. fascinating subject. my conclusion, through the years, is that it is - as i wrote in my origional comments - both an objecive & subjective experience combined. om peace!.. rudrani Rudrani, So have you come to a confident conclusion about the identity of the objective Soma? If so, what is it? If not, is your search continuing? If not, why not? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Bob wrote [[1. The gods rely on humans for Soma, since the gods, not being enlightened, cannot produce Soma (they also had to drink the nectar of immortality, Amrita, since they cannot produce that substance either). [snip] it's just the way the universe works.]]** !!! in a TM universe, if you say so. its *your* reality .. keep on keepn' on! -This isn't how it works, since beyond the gods is one's own silent nature, the same as the gods own silent nature. This soma more than anything bridges the gaps in ones own nature. Those gaps are the devata. The devata exist in the gap, sambogakaya, The gods might like the vibe from inner production of soma, but they don't need it. You need it. Also, soma can over produce in some people and make them crazy. Best to have sex alot instead of being a mental case. Sorry peeps but I don't see things the same way as you guys. Soma burden was a weight that I wanted to be free of for years. Very hard to concentrate on the task at hand when you keep spacing out. Don't believe me then just listen more carefully to MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Hi Bob: On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: > 1. The gods rely on humans for Soma, since the gods, not being > enlightened, cannot produce Soma (they also had to drink the nectar > of immortality, Amrita, since they cannot produce that substance > either). It's a free country, until the Natural Law Party takes over, > anyway, so you can regard this as vampirism, but it's just the way > the universe works. I'm sorry but this is total hogwash. Anyone who has taken time to get initiated into some good higher eastern practices knows exactly what is supposed to be going on and where the mistakes are. Basically MMY has tried to create a pure "Vedic" practice, grossly simplified based on inner tantric practices which are connected to "soma". He only vaguely succeeded IMO. Yes humans produce rarified forms of prana during meditation. Yes they are used with other beings and to create holistic communication and circumstances. But not really in the way that this is described (on Trancenet). What is described on Trancenet, if it is authentic TMO teaching, is an aberration, an attempted reconstruction of an alleged "Vedic" practice. Sadly or perhaps happily, there IS no lineal descent of this practice in a Vedic tradition. So they/he made one up. The sad thing is the real teaching on dripping and blazing of soma, etc. are all still preserved and still lead to real enlightenment. But this ain't it. Do yourself a favor, if you want to really find out about where it's at, go buy a copy of _Bliss of Clear Light_ and read it. It is extraordinary that this book was ever published, because many people spent a lifetime or lifetimes just to have the good fortune to receive these teachings. You will be amazed...and if you are a TM-Sidhi practitioner who is honest with himself, you will experience a deep up-welling of anger. You've been had. -Vaj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 15, 2005, at 7:48 PM, crukstrom wrote: > Were you a TM-Sidhi practitioner who read this book and experienced > an upwelling of anger? LOL, well I am a TM-Sidhi practitioner, but no it wasn't this particular item that set me off, more of a process. Sadness is part of it too, because there is the tendency to believe you "had it all", the fastest boat, etc. When you find out it isn't true, it hurts. The good news: you can always integrate what you have and there are good things as well. And lemonade tastes better than dwelling on bitterness. I still think of MMY with heart-felt affection. Always will. But he's just one teacher. And not my root-teacher, my mula-guru. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:31 PM, Alex Stanley wrote: > Do you mean "Clear Light of Bliss: The Practice of Mahamudra > in Vajrayana Buddhism" by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso? oops, sorry, yes that's it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:30 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote: > Vaj, old man, if it's not an imposition, would you > be so kind as to summarize the parts of the book > that would outrage the honest TM Sidha? Not that > I am one -- more of a lazy sidha, truth be told, > who'd rather read your book review than the entire book. Well, it gives a clear and true path to enlightenment, based on what you would call "soma". This is just one schools in depth presentation. There are other schools as well. The point is: here's the whole thing, not just a piece. Look on Amazon--you can check out the ToC and the index. It should give you an idea. The point is not so much "this book will enlighten you" or "you gotta have this book", the point is this book will show you the depth that is necessary to have the skillful means to attain. The point is "you deserve this level of depth." I think my previous post on inner fire gives an idea not only of how good methods can help, but how good pithy, experiential advice of those who went before is *essential*. Do you get that in the TMO? > > By the way, an Amazon search turned up a Tantric > meditator's handbook entitled _Clear Light of Bliss: > The Practice of Mahamudra in Vajrayana Buddhism_, > by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. I assume this is the book > you're recommending. I suppose it's safe to assume > you've practiced its teachings? I practice from a different lineage, but yes, the methods are the same. Also understand, there are other methods, which might not work with "soma", but just as complete. Something for everyone. It's very sad for me to see so many people, so dedicated to practice, being given a piece of a made-up puzzle. "Soma" basically works with the undivided experience of bliss and emptiness. There are other ways to realize, not just one. But it is important to have the whole thing, not a bad facsimile. And not always guessing if your experience is "right". You should be able to "check your View" with someone who's "been there, done that." Yogic traditions will also always have a guru mantra or guru yoga. Then you always have a direct, ultra-broadband, holographic, interactive connection. In the absence of a physical teacher, you have access to answers. > And here's my kicker question: has your practice of > its teachings been the thing that disillusioned you > of the TM-Sidhi program? No, it was apparent much earlier that way too much was being withheld. You see, for a movement centered around the dharma-shastras, you have to realize: YOU ARE AN UNTOUCHABLE. So you'll get what the untouchables get--and at a very high price. I'm not saying this to be mean. I'm saying this because I feel it is the 'honest to god' truth! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:20 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Hi Bob: On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: > 1. The gods rely on humans for Soma, since the gods, not being > enlightened, cannot produce Soma (they also had to drink the nectar > of immortality, Amrita, since they cannot produce that substance > either). It's a free country, until the Natural Law Party takes over, > anyway, so you can regard this as vampirism, but it's just the way > the universe works. I'm sorry but this is total hogwash. Anyone who has taken time to get initiated into some good higher eastern practices knows exactly what is supposed to be going on and where the mistakes are. Basically MMY has tried to create a pure "Vedic" practice, grossly simplified based on inner tantric practices which are connected to "soma". He only vaguely succeeded IMO. Yes humans produce rarified forms of prana during meditation. Yes they are used with other beings and to create holistic communication and circumstances. But not really in the way that this is described (on Trancenet). What is described on Trancenet, if it is authentic TMO teaching, is an aberration, an attempted reconstruction of an alleged "Vedic" practice. Sadly or perhaps happily, there IS no lineal descent of this practice in a Vedic tradition. So they/he made one up. The sad thing is the real teaching on dripping and blazing of soma, etc. are all still preserved and still lead to real enlightenment. But this ain't it. snip -Vaj --- Vaj, If you are talking about the Rig Veda, saying that it is the real teaching on Soma (and that it’s external), I agree with you. But whether you are or not: IF you equate the Rig Veda’s age with its Vedic importance, THEN you must face up to its most apparent message: THAT Vedic enlightenment was an effect only obtained from the consumption of an elaborately prepared external substance. Was RV-Soma the same as modern TMO-Soma? Many say “no” and try to claim a difference as support for the latter over the former, but that is backward logic. Since TMO-Soma has always been represented as Vedic (by MMY), any criticism against (or distancing from) RV-Soma texts is foolhardy - SINCE the RV is the heart and source of everything Vedic. This would also be true for RV-enlightenment vs TMO-enlightenment. True, the verdict is not yet in on the validity of RV Soma and enlightenment (as it is described in its texts); but any modern versions of those two concepts that claim Vedic validity (and use the same words/names) would naturally be MUCH more vulnerable to baseless-ness. In other words, you can’t maintain an alliance with a source while criticizing it. Of course such modern alliances are more sophisticated than such blatancy. They discovered translation-spinning as a superior method: “this is what the RV REALLY says”. Such BS! Guys, it’s not hard to read the RV and understand the basics of what it says about enlightenment and Soma: the former was derived from a consumption of the latter and the latter was derived from a preparation of something(s) external from the human body. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Hi Mark: On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:43 PM, mark robert wrote: > If you are talking about the Rig Veda, saying that it is the real > teaching on Soma (and that it’s external), I agree with you. What I was talking about was modern reconstructions of an alleged "Vedic yoga" by the TMO which really has no basis in a lineal system of enlightenment (unless yo consider chanting priests such a system). Having said that, I'll say what I have said before. The vast majority of what the TMO *calls* "Vedic" is in fact (not theory, supposition or legend) NOT Vedic. There is a vast literature in Indian pre-Vedic texts on a lunar substance associated with the higher chakras. There is a further possibility that the "sama", the Vedic hymns themselves, do not date from "Vedic times/the Vedic era" but back into the remote past (the Treta yuga). These ancient sacrificial hymns were appropriated by by the Aryans and codified into their present form. Alongside these Aryan "soma cults" exist, up to the present day, the remnants of the pre-Vedic soma cults (who didn't necessarily use the words soma--there are numerous other words in the Sandhya Bhasya, the Twilight Language). They preserve a full yogic path utilizing BOTH inner and outer "soma". Very little is left of Vedic religion. No person or no text or no lineage has come forth demonstrating a palpable Vedic soma praxis linked to enlightenment. The Vedic trip is primarily a Brahmin priestly trip mixed with earlier Tantric materials. The TMO soma system is basically a reconstructed system attempting to capture a way to attain via Vedic means. Most of its methods however (mantras, yoga, etc.) are not Vedic at all. > But whether you are or not: > > > IF you equate the Rig Veda’s age with its Vedic importance, THEN you > must face up to its most apparent message: THAT Vedic enlightenment > was an effect only obtained from the consumption of an elaborately > prepared external substance. I posit that what went before the actual Rig Ved, etc. was more important. It is very possible the Rig Ved itself is a pre-Vedic trad. appropriated by the Aryans (but not necessarily via "invasion"). > Was RV-Soma the same as modern TMO-Soma? Many say “no” and try to > claim a difference as support for the latter over the former, but that > is backward logic. Since TMO-Soma has always been represented as Vedic > (by MMY), any criticism against (or distancing from) RV-Soma texts is > foolhardy - SINCE the RV is the heart and source of everything Vedic. There is actually very little left of true Vedic religion. Hinduism, as it exists today, is primarily Agamic and Tantric. Shanti, Vaj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
-Original Message- From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Hi Mark: On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:43 PM, mark robert wrote: > If you are talking about the Rig Veda, saying that it is the real > teaching on Soma (and that its external), I agree with you. What I was talking about was modern reconstructions of an alleged "Vedic yoga" by the TMO which really has no basis in a lineal system of enlightenment (unless yo consider chanting priests such a system). Having said that, I'll say what I have said before. The vast majority of what the TMO *calls* "Vedic" is in fact (not theory, supposition or legend) NOT Vedic. There is a vast literature in Indian pre-Vedic texts on a lunar substance associated with the higher chakras. There is a further possibility that the "sama", the Vedic hymns themselves, do not date from "Vedic times/the Vedic era" but back into the remote past (the Treta yuga). These ancient sacrificial hymns were appropriated by by the Aryans and codified into their present form. Alongside these Aryan "soma cults" exist, up to the present day, the remnants of the pre-Vedic soma cults (who didn't necessarily use the words soma--there are numerous other words in the Sandhya Bhasya, the Twilight Language). They preserve a full yogic path utilizing BOTH inner and outer "soma". Very little is left of Vedic religion. No person or no text or no lineage has come forth demonstrating a palpable Vedic soma praxis linked to enlightenment. The Vedic trip is primarily a Brahmin priestly trip mixed with earlier Tantric materials. The TMO soma system is basically a reconstructed system attempting to capture a way to attain via Vedic means. Most of its methods however (mantras, yoga, etc.) are not Vedic at all. > But whether you are or not: > > > IF you equate the Rig Vedas age with its Vedic importance, THEN you > must face up to its most apparent message: THAT Vedic enlightenment > was an effect only obtained from the consumption of an elaborately > prepared external substance. I posit that what went before the actual Rig Ved, etc. was more important. It is very possible the Rig Ved itself is a pre-Vedic trad. appropriated by the Aryans (but not necessarily via "invasion"). > Was RV-Soma the same as modern TMO-Soma? Many say no and try to > claim a difference as support for the latter over the former, but that > is backward logic. Since TMO-Soma has always been represented as Vedic > (by MMY), any criticism against (or distancing from) RV-Soma texts is > foolhardy - SINCE the RV is the heart and source of everything Vedic. There is actually very little left of true Vedic religion. Hinduism, as it exists today, is primarily Agamic and Tantric. Shanti, Vaj --- Vaj, Thanks for the inside history of the "vedic religion". Very "enlightening" but also very likely. Kinda sounds like what a lot of researchers (and regular folks who read them) are saying about the Christian religion: that it was all borrowed from older "religions" and does not really qualify as a religion itself. Of course you could probably say the same about ANY spiritual system or cult or canon or superstition or belief system that has ever existed: that they borrowed most of their details from previous folks and times and places (and became intermingled). That being said, I don't believe my point (that TMO-Soma can not disclaim RV-Soma) is lost. In relationship to TMers and the name of this list, the point is extremely relevant. In other words, if you believe in any type of TMO-enlightenment or TMO-Soma, it behooves you to "realize" that the two concept's main claim to fame is the Rig Veda. And therefore you should know the basic message of the Rig Veda concerning its soma and enlightenment. I'm not sure your points on fragmented Vedic history really address the integrity of RV-Soma texts regarding the main theme. Do you feel that the texts were so corrupted by the time they were written, by a chaotic mixture of influences, that the basic message of something external being prepared to produce an enlightenment is a distortion? I would like to suggest a better perspective. All "religions" are far more fluid than they would like to "believe". According to them, they are a finite set of inflexible doctrines. According to us, there is little coherence to them. But it is looking more and more like, amongst all the chaotic fluidity, there remains a common theme hidden deep within them. As counterintuitive as it is, the common theme would appear to be: "Take a drug and have a religious experience". Sorry for the message being so d
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Hey is that Geshe Kelsang? My fave Buddhist books are Heart Drops of Dharmakaya and Wonders of the Natural Mind. I think the book Vaj was Clear Light of Bliss. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Hi Bob:On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:> 1. The gods rely on humans for Soma, since the gods, not being> enlightened, cannot produce Soma (they also had to drink the nectar> of immortality, Amrita, since they cannot produce that substance> either). It's a free country, until the Natural Law Party takes over,> anyway, so you can regard this as vampirism, but it's just the way> the universe works.I'm sorry but this is total hogwash. Anyone who has taken time to get initiated into some good higher eastern practices knows exactly what is supposed to be going on and where the mistakes are.Basically MMY has tried to create a pure "Vedic" practice, grossly simplified based on inner tantric practices which are connected to "soma". He only vaguely succeeded IMO. Yes humans produce rarified forms of prana during meditation. Yes they are used with other beings and to create holistic communication and circumstances. But not really in the way that this is described (on Trancenet). What is described on Trancenet, if it is authentic TMO teaching, is an aberration, an attempted reconstruction of an alleged "Vedic" practice. Sadly or perhaps happily, there IS no lineal descent of this practice in a Vedic tradition. So they/he made one up.The sad thing is the real teaching on dripping and blazing of soma, etc. are all still preserved and still lead to real enlightenment. But this ain't it.Do yourself a favor, if you want to really find out about where it's at, go buy a copy of _Bliss of Clear Light_ and read it. It is extraordinary that this book was ever published, because many people spent a lifetime or lifetimes just to have the good fortune to receive these teachings. You will be amazed...and if you are a TM-Sidhi practitioner who is honest with himself, you will experience a deep up-welling of anger.You've been had.-VajTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Good morning: On Mar 15, 2005, at 10:56 PM, mark robert wrote: > I'm not sure your points on fragmented Vedic history really > address the integrity of RV-Soma texts regarding the main theme. > Do you feel that the texts were so corrupted by the time they > were written, by a chaotic mixture of influences, that the basic > message of something external being prepared to produce an > enlightenment is a distortion? No that's not really the point I am making. The point is that Vedic recitation of Rig Veda exists really just as that: Brahmins reciting Rig Veda. It does not contain a lineal set of practices along with it regarding soma. The upanishads do talk somewhat on this, but they do not provide a set of spiritual practices for realization via "soma". It's not really about fragmented history either, because at some point in history "Hinduism" became a blend of Agamic and Vedic. What it is about is not claiming something is Vedic when it is well known that it is not. What it is about is Brahmin domination--and since the early middle ages, the rise of the merchant castes. It's also about the Hindatva movement. It's also about Vaishnavism and the mix of puritanical religions brought by the British Raj. What I seem to be coming up against is an entire movement of people who have been brainwashed into believing certain things are "Vedic" when in reality they never were. No matter what you say or explain, there response is "it's all Vedic". It's the Ved. As I said so many times before, there is very little left of Vedic religion. > I would like to suggest a better perspective. All "religions" are > far more fluid than they would like to "believe". According to > them, they are a finite set of inflexible doctrines. According to > us, there is little coherence to them. But it is looking more and > more like, amongst all the chaotic fluidity, there remains a > common theme hidden deep within them. As counterintuitive as it > is, the common theme would appear to be: "Take a drug and have a > religious experience". Sorry for the message being so depraved > and devaluing to human spirituality, but that is the essence of > the research that I continue to see more and more. I know it's > not a pleasant thought for many, but truth trumps all preference. Again this is simply not the case. There is a huge literature surrounding the use of some lunar, soma-substance and a corresponding set of inner practices. The two are always linked together, unless it is simply a substance for medicinal use. The practices are all Tantric, Agamic or of Dravidian origin--not Vedic. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 16, 2005, at 2:38 AM, rudra_joe wrote: My fave Buddhist books are Heart Drops of Dharmakaya and Wonders of the Natural Mind. Aren't they both Bonpo works?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Only thing I know about Bonpo is it hurts the head. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 16, 2005, at 2:38 AM, rudra_joe wrote: My fave Buddhist books are Heart Drops of Dharmakaya and Wonders of the Natural Mind.Aren't they both Bonpo works? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:35 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Good morning: On Mar 15, 2005, at 10:56 PM, mark robert wrote: > I'm not sure your points on fragmented Vedic history really > address the integrity of RV-Soma texts regarding the main theme. > Do you feel that the texts were so corrupted by the time they > were written, by a chaotic mixture of influences, that the basic > message of something external being prepared to produce an > enlightenment is a distortion? No that's not really the point I am making. The point is that Vedic recitation of Rig Veda exists really just as that: Brahmins reciting Rig Veda. It does not contain a lineal set of practices along with it regarding soma. The upanishads do talk somewhat on this, but they do not provide a set of spiritual practices for realization via "soma". It's not really about fragmented history either, because at some point in history "Hinduism" became a blend of Agamic and Vedic. What it is about is not claiming something is Vedic when it is well known that it is not. What it is about is Brahmin domination--and since the early middle ages, the rise of the merchant castes. It's also about the Hindatva movement. It's also about Vaishnavism and the mix of puritanical religions brought by the British Raj. What I seem to be coming up against is an entire movement of people who have been brainwashed into believing certain things are "Vedic" when in reality they never were. No matter what you say or explain, there response is "it's all Vedic". It's the Ved. As I said so many times before, there is very little left of Vedic religion. > I would like to suggest a better perspective. All "religions" are > far more fluid than they would like to "believe". According to > them, they are a finite set of inflexible doctrines. According to > us, there is little coherence to them. But it is looking more and > more like, amongst all the chaotic fluidity, there remains a > common theme hidden deep within them. As counterintuitive as it > is, the common theme would appear to be: "Take a drug and have a > religious experience". Sorry for the message being so depraved > and devaluing to human spirituality, but that is the essence of > the research that I continue to see more and more. I know it's > not a pleasant thought for many, but truth trumps all preference. Again this is simply not the case. There is a huge literature surrounding the use of some lunar, soma-substance and a corresponding set of inner practices. The two are always linked together, unless it is simply a substance for medicinal use. The practices are all Tantric, Agamic or of Dravidian origin--not Vedic. -- Vaj, Maybe no “set of spiritual practices” are needed for realization via RV-Soma. Are you claiming that since the RV contains no “lineal set of practices” that you think should attend the consumption of the Soma, then the Soma and any enlightenment claims made about its consumption are untrue? It may be true that other Soma literature contains corresponding sets of inner practices, but does that fact disqualify the legitimacy of the RV-Soma texts? (and I would bet the latter pre-dates the former.) OK, we agree that a lot of “Vedic” literature is not really Vedic at all. But does that discredit the content of the RV-Soma texts? Do any of your points (inc. Brahmin recitation) really discredit their content? Or is it just that you feel that since RV-soma texts do not include something you would prefer, they MUST not be valid. You have been supplying direct translations on this list; what do you think they are really saying? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 16, 2005, at 12:19 PM, mark robert wrote: OK, we agree that a lot of “Vedic” literature is not really Vedic at all. But does that discredit the content of the RV-Soma texts? Do any of your points (inc. Brahmin recitation) really discredit their content? Or is it just that you feel that since RV-soma texts do not include something you would prefer, they MUST not be valid. You have been supplying direct translations on this list; what do you think they are really saying? While I think an external substance does exist, I have my doubts that it is an enlightenment panacea. I think these are ancient stone-age texts which attempt to describe the subjective "rishi" experience using the bizarre monosyllabic root-based structure of Sanskrit as their vehicle. The "rishI" is not historical in other words, it a POV in awareness. It's a way of putting the ineffable into vocalized speech. Samadhi-into-speech. Pure twilight language. The flight of Garuda/Garutman, Sarasvati, the transformations of Agni and soma. IME, soma is a liquid which pours thru the sieves of the sahasara, opening new doorways of awareness and new dimensions of existence. Similar texts are still being grokked today by yogis. RJ mentioned the Song of the Vajra, that's one example IMO. The problem with Rig Ved is it is such a long lineage, it's hard to squeeze anything practical out of it. But it's great reading for consciousness explorers.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
--- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > > > While I think an external substance does exist, I > have my doubts that > it is an enlightenment panacea. I think these are > ancient stone-age > texts which attempt to describe the subjective > "rishi" experience using > the bizarre monosyllabic root-based structure of > Sanskrit as their > vehicle. The "rishI" is not historical in other > words, it a POV in > awareness. It's a way of putting the ineffable into > vocalized speech. > Samadhi-into-speech. Pure twilight language. The > flight of > Garuda/Garutman, Sarasvati, the transformations of > Agni and soma. IME, > soma is a liquid which pours thru the sieves of the > sahasara, opening > new doorways of awareness and new dimensions of > existence. > > Similar texts are still being grokked today by > yogis. RJ mentioned the > Song of the Vajra, that's one example IMO. The > problem with Rig Ved is > it is such a long lineage, it's hard to squeeze > anything practical out > of it. But it's great reading for consciousness > explorers. Nice post. It's all in the domain of consciousness. "Perspectives" within consciousness give rise to these different "parts". -Peter > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 16, 2005, at 12:19 PM, mark robert wrote: Maybe no “set of spiritual practices” are needed for realization via RV-Soma. Are you claiming that since the RV contains no “lineal set of practices” that you think should attend the consumption of the Soma, then the Soma and any enlightenment claims made about its consumption are untrue? It may be true that other Soma literature contains corresponding sets of inner practices, but does that fact disqualify the legitimacy of the RV-Soma texts? (and I would bet the latter pre-dates the former.) BTW... I should have asked this earlier: since you are obviously really into this topic, have you read White's _The Alchemical Body_? Anyone remotely interested in soma as yogic practice should read this work. It is truly a monument of research and just outstanding, mind-blowing scholarship. White has revealed for the first time since Ray's writings years ago, the Sanskrit texts behind the Nath siddhas alchemical practices (along with other writings as well). In the process he reveals the whole structure of soma practice, the inner meanings of hatha-yoga and meditation. It is dense reading, but for those interested, it reads like a detective novel. It is put out by University of Chicago press. White is a professor at the Univ. of CA at Santa Barbara.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:38 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 16, 2005, at 12:19 PM, mark robert wrote: OK, we agree that a lot of “Vedic” literature is not really Vedic at all. But does that discredit the content of the RV-Soma texts? Do any of your points (inc. Brahmin recitation) really discredit their content? Or is it just that you feel that since RV-soma texts do not include something you would prefer, they MUST not be valid. You have been supplying direct translations on this list; what do you think they are really saying? While I think an external substance does exist, I have my doubts that it is an enlightenment panacea. I think these are ancient stone-age texts which attempt to describe the subjective "rishi" experience using the bizarre monosyllabic root-based structure of Sanskrit as their vehicle. The "rishI" is not historical in other words, it a POV in awareness. It's a way of putting the ineffable into vocalized speech. Samadhi-into-speech. Pure twilight language. The flight of Garuda/Garutman, Sarasvati, the transformations of Agni and soma. IME, soma is a liquid which pours thru the sieves of the sahasara, opening new doorways of awareness and new dimensions of existence. Similar texts are still being grokked today by yogis. RJ mentioned the Song of the Vajra, that's one example IMO. The problem with Rig Ved is it is such a long lineage, it's hard to squeeze anything practical out of it. But it's great reading for consciousness explorers. Vaj, What do you mean by “long lineage”? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 17, 2005, at 12:29 PM, mark robert wrote: What do you mean by “long lineage”? A lineage whose origin is distant in time.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 17, 2005, at 12:29 PM, mark robert wrote: What do you mean by “long lineage”? A lineage whose origin is distant in time. You mean, “It’s very old”. Right? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 17, 2005, at 12:40 PM, mark robert wrote: You mean, “It’s very old”. Right? Yes. Teachings which are older take longer to bear fruit. "Closer" short lineages bear fruit quicker. The ideal is to have both and wed them thru practice. -V.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:46 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 17, 2005, at 12:40 PM, mark robert wrote: You mean, “It’s very old”. Right? Yes. Teachings which are older take longer to bear fruit. "Closer" short lineages bear fruit quicker. The ideal is to have both and wed them thru practice. -V. Vaj, I do not comprehend your reasoning that discriminates against older teachings and prefers newer teachings, especially in regard to such an old concept as Soma. When teaching about the identification of traditional soma, what could a newer teaching possibly have over the original? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Hiya Mark: On Mar 17, 2005, at 8:27 PM, mark robert wrote: > I do not comprehend your reasoning that discriminates against older > teachings and prefers newer teachings, especially in regard to such an > old concept as Soma. When teaching about the identification of > traditional soma, what could a newer teaching possibly have over the > original? > Old traditions "bear fruit", that is, they "bear results", much slower (if at all--often people will give up first!). It's a simple fact of spiritual practice. A lineal descent of re-revelation and new-gnosis is imperative. There are a number of reasons. The primary one IMO is that inner teachings eventually reach some public eye. There they undergo anal-ysis. They degrade thereby (thus the typical insistence on some form of "secrecy"--oft misinterpreted as "elitism" [which is partly true]). Spiritual teachings exist, as an evolutionary impulse, in a careful matrix of happenstance. The "right place at the right time". When that's 'fucked with', the teaching loses it's power and utility in the here-and-now. Some teachings might have been revealed thru the aegis of other-worldly beings. Often they put restrictions on how they (the teachings) are disseminated. When these vows are broken, some teachings can become antithetical to humans or simply useless. An example might be the numerous people who believe they are being violated by extraterrestrials. This is what happens when people--humans--with limited memory spans come into contact with beings whose space they violated in some past time. Not every being lives for 100 years (or less)... -V To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
Hi Easy: On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:26 AM, easyone200 wrote: > Alien visitations can easily be explained away by hypnopompic or > hypnogogic hallucinations or various sleep paralysis experiences. They can be partially explained, i.e. some of the cases can be explained this way. So you are partly correct. I was not referring to these obvious erroneous examples. There are very old traditions of contact with these beings by yogis for millennia--some extremely detailed. Shakyamuni Buddha would probably be the best known example. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
--- easyone200 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hiya Mark: > > > > > An example might be the numerous people who > believe they are being > > violated by extraterrestrials. This is what > happens when > > people--humans--with limited memory spans come > into contact with beings > > whose space they violated in some past time. Not > every being lives for > > 100 years (or less)... > > > > -V > > Bad example. Alien visitations can easily be > explained away by hypnopompic or > hypnogogic hallucinations or various sleep paralysis > experiences. Laboratory experiments > in which small electromagnets are placed around the > skull and pulsed can give exactly the > same abduction - visitation experience. The subject > will swear to the reality of the > experience even though he is in a thoroughly > controlled and videotaped surrounding with > a dozen witnesses to say nothing happened. The > subjects will even pass lie detector tests. > Such hallucinations can also occur during extreme > fatigue. One famous incident was a > reporter covering and participating in an "iron man" > competition in the desert. He passed > out and then awoke in an ambulance with a > wonderfully complete "alien abduction" > experience. It was as real to him as any other > experience and if it had not been for his > circumstance and the many witnesses he would now be > another abductee. I've always found these experiences to be fascinating because the people that have them are usually quite sane and they truly believe that they have been abducted, probed, and all other sorts of things, but it is so difficult to believe them because the experience is so extreme with little evidence other than a memory to back it up. Easyone, do you have any references for the above account? -Peter > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > I've always found these experiences to be fascinating > because the people that have them are usually quite > sane and they truly believe that they have been > abducted, probed, and all other sorts of things, but > it is so difficult to believe them because the > experience is so extreme with little evidence other > than a memory to back it up. You might enjoy Kundalini, Evolution, and Enlightenment by White. It has a section of kundalini awakening and extraterrestrials. I do believe some of these experiences can be explained in some cases by Easy's explanations, in yet others cases by faulty hypnosis methodology--the so-called false memory syndrome. In others, they are part of awakening and expnasion of awareness. Yogic trads. preserve long contact with these beings. I also think people should read C.G. Jungs _Flying Saucers_ and the work of Jacques Vallee. If you ever saw the movie _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_, the French guy in that movie is based on Vallee. There is another old work, recently reprinted by a Rev. Kirk--a minister who went into Scotland in the 1600's and recorded the stories of "abductions" in the fairy circles there. Shift the same scenarios to a techno-world like today and you can see that they are explaining the same precise experience. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:07 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Hiya Mark: On Mar 17, 2005, at 8:27 PM, mark robert wrote: > I do not comprehend your reasoning that discriminates against older > teachings and prefers newer teachings, especially in regard to such an > old concept as Soma. When teaching about the identification of > traditional soma, what could a newer teaching possibly have over the > original? > Old traditions "bear fruit", that is, they "bear results", much slower (if at all--often people will give up first!). It's a simple fact of spiritual practice. A lineal descent of re-revelation and new-gnosis is imperative. There are a number of reasons. The primary one IMO is that inner teachings eventually reach some public eye. There they undergo anal-ysis. They degrade thereby (thus the typical insistence on some form of "secrecy"--oft misinterpreted as "elitism" [which is partly true]). Spiritual teachings exist, as an evolutionary impulse, in a careful matrix of happenstance. The "right place at the right time". When that's 'fucked with', the teaching loses it's power and utility in the here-and-now. Some teachings might have been revealed thru the aegis of other-worldly beings. Often they put restrictions on how they (the teachings) are disseminated. When these vows are broken, some teachings can become antithetical to humans or simply useless. An example might be the numerous people who believe they are being violated by extraterrestrials. This is what happens when people--humans--with limited memory spans come into contact with beings whose space they violated in some past time. Not every being lives for 100 years (or less)... -V - Vaj, You have completely lost me on your explanation on why older traditions are inferior. I’m either WAY less enlightened than you, or your explanation is far from coherent/linear/rational. I am also lost on how you are able to segway from Soma to extraterrestrials, especially considering that you seem to scoff at the former and give credit to the latter. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:35 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? On Mar 18, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > I've always found these experiences to be fascinating > because the people that have them are usually quite > sane and they truly believe that they have been > abducted, probed, and all other sorts of things, but > it is so difficult to believe them because the > experience is so extreme with little evidence other > than a memory to back it up. You might enjoy Kundalini, Evolution, and Enlightenment by White. It has a section of kundalini awakening and extraterrestrials. I do believe some of these experiences can be explained in some cases by Easy's explanations, in yet others cases by faulty hypnosis methodology--the so-called false memory syndrome. In others, they are part of awakening and expnasion of awareness. Yogic trads. preserve long contact with these beings. I also think people should read C.G. Jungs _Flying Saucers_ and the work of Jacques Vallee. If you ever saw the movie _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_, the French guy in that movie is based on Vallee. There is another old work, recently reprinted by a Rev. Kirk--a minister who went into Scotland in the 1600's and recorded the stories of "abductions" in the fairy circles there. Shift the same scenarios to a techno-world like today and you can see that they are explaining the same precise experience. -- Vaj, It is peculiar how you have more of a belief in alien beings than an external Soma. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:47 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation? Hi Easy: On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:26 AM, easyone200 wrote: > Alien visitations can easily be explained away by hypnopompic or > hypnogogic hallucinations or various sleep paralysis experiences. They can be partially explained, i.e. some of the cases can be explained this way. So you are partly correct. I was not referring to these obvious erroneous examples. There are very old traditions of contact with these beings by yogis for millennia--some extremely detailed. Shakyamuni Buddha would probably be the best known example. -V. --- Vaj, Were you not just claiming that older traditions/teachings were inferior? -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 11:51 AM, mark robert wrote: You have completely lost me on your explanation on why older traditions are inferior. Sorry if I lost you. I don't think old trads. are necessarily inferior, they just don't typically give results as fast as short lineages. That's all. I’m either WAY less enlightened than you, or your explanation is far from coherent/linear/rational. I am also lost on how you are able to segway from Soma to extraterrestrials, especially considering that you seem to scoff at the former and give credit to the latter. The point was or is: nature has memory, just like people. The more something is repeated as a habit, the more that memory is reinforced. When a memory is really ingrained in nature, it's easy to pick up. These memories fade over time, and they become harder to pick up. Get the memories while they're hot. The "soma" method has evolved over time. We were just talking about the hatha-yoga-pradipika (on FFL). It contains practices for cultivating "soma"/amrita. My point would be, in this context, a newer practice like that would be easier to get working. Then one could look at older parts of this same practice, and through your spiritual practice, bring what was ancient into the present--through your practice. Does that make sense?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 11:52 AM, mark robert wrote: Were you not just claiming that older traditions/teachings were inferior? No, they bear fruit, they give results slower. But there are exceptions to every rule.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 11:52 AM, mark robert wrote: There are very old traditions of contact with these beings by yogis for millennia--some extremely detailed. Shakyamuni Buddha would probably be the best known example. Were you not just claiming that older traditions/teachings were inferior? These are traditions that continue up to the present.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 11:52 AM, mark robert wrote: It is peculiar how you have more of a belief in alien beings than an external Soma. It's a touchy subject I am trying skirt around as carefully as I can. I don't like the words "aliens" or "extraterrestrial" since I believe they are very misleading (and connected to all sorts of silliness). I also am avoiding using their Sanskrit name so as to not break any of my vows. I believe there may be a physical soma, but the internal as well. Tradition, in modern times, seems more concerned with the inner. No physical substance will ever enlighten us on its own.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:26 PM, easyone200 wrote: > The > older they get the more inaccurate. I would hardly consider prajna-paramita-sutra inaccurate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic Translation?
On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:28 PM, easyone200 wrote: > "what if" I won the lotto, had a 10 inch cock and looked like Brad > Pitt. I'm guessing, but I'd bet you'd still have a hard time gettin' a date.;-) I will admit, it does work for me. Well except the lotto part... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
