Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
--- Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --What's the still mind thingy as mentioned below.. anyone know? Atma vichara or Self-Inquiry, part of the Ramana Maharishi tradition. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:32 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing you can say about a Master is that a Master does not merely dispense teaching by puja but by adhikara--your own unique needs, a personal authorization for practice...or at least provides you with skillful means to do so! People read way too much into the wholesale dispensing of mantra. If the Master is enlightened, it seems to me that 'teaching by puja' is the same as 'by adhikara'. Both obtain the same result, though the seeker may view it as two different methods. Can I supersize your McMeditation or would you like an Amrit Kalash with that mantra? no thanks, just the 'basic' mantra please. In all seriousness, I've not received any 'advanced techniques' or played with MAPI products at all, except for a cup of vata tea every couple months or so. I did get the sidhis and did them for awhile, though they are more of an adjunct to meditation. Now I just use the same mantra I received originally. And the still mind thingie I picked up here on the board. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/23/05 9:16 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was teaching TTC I told Maharishi that I often had the experience that people would ask a question to which I didn't know the answer, but that I would start with a few words and then the answer would just come out. Maharishi said something like, Very good, that's how I do it. Yep, MMY never had any clue about anything he's talking about. He just read from some script prepared for him by Sanskrit scholars because he couldn't read sanskrit... The point of the story is that he taught largely from intuition. Knowledge just flowed out as it was needed. I'm aware of that. MY point was that many people on this forum believe that since MMY's formal training was lacking, he wasn't competent to teach. Thank god he didn't have formal training. If he had he never would have left India and taught to the West. I'll take Blazing Brahman over formal training any day of the week! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/24/05 7:55 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boy, he really got around. Wonder where he is now. Maybe still with Arjuna? He told me that there was another guy in the press who was enlightened called Arjuna, whith whom he was in the US. At that time he was living in the US and had a japanese wife AFAIK. I saw Arjuna just two weeks ago, when he came to our place. Is that Arjuna Nick Ardaugh, who is British, Yes, its him, very tall guy. Gives satsangs with his wife. Focuses on relationships afaik He lives in the Lake Tahoe area: They live in Nevada City, CA, and travel frequently in the US and Europe offering their work. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/24/05 10:20 AM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, MMY never had any clue about anything he's talking about. He just read from some script prepared for him by Sanskrit scholars because he couldn't read sanskrit... Have you been in 10 hour meetings with MMY - have you seen the scripts, the literally kilos of scripts this would require ? Of course not, and you have never ever seen these scripts you are reffering to simply because they do not excist in any other place than your deranged mind. He learned whatever he could from wherever he could, but was a volcano of knowledge and creativity on his own as well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:16 PM, sparaig wrote: Yep, MMY never had any clue about anything he's talking about. He just read from some script prepared for him by Sanskrit scholars because he couldn't read sanskrit... Are you being sarcastic or do you really mean what you said? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 24, 2005, at 12:29 PM, sparaig wrote: That was my point. People on this forum have said that MMY was not a real teacher, and certainly not qualified to be Shankaracharya, becaues he wasn't a Sanskrit scholar. Therefore he had to be coached on everything he was saying by someone who really knew what they were talking about. I don't believe anyone said or implied the above. It would not be open to him because he does not have an experiential knowledge of all the various scriptures as well as knowledge of the texts themselves. This is the same as the training of a lama (guru)--you have to have experiential knowledge of all the methods and the underpinning of the texts themselves. And yes, of course, as you point out he relies heavily on input from pandits--but I seriously doubt there was ever a *written* script. He takes what they tell him and spins it his own way. He often relies on experts--e.g. the yoga asanas coming from a gym teacher, etc. It's almost hilarious this adulation which fringes on the insane. I guess it's normal to put a teacher on a pedestal--in this case you (and some others) seem to think that pedestal should be the Shankaracharya of the North LOL. One thing you can say about a Master is that a Master does not merely dispense teaching by puja but by adhikara--your own unique needs, a personal authorization for practice...or at least provides you with skillful means to do so! People read way too much into the wholesale dispensing of mantra. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:32 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing you can say about a Master is that a Master does not merely dispense teaching by puja but by adhikara--your own unique needs, a personal authorization for practice...or at least provides you with skillful means to do so! People read way too much into the wholesale dispensing of mantra. If the Master is enlightened, it seems to me that 'teaching by puja' is the same as 'by adhikara'. Both obtain the same result, though the seeker may view it as two different methods. Can I supersize your McMeditation or would you like an Amrit Kalash with that mantra? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/24/05 11:47 AM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Grief, your understanding is simple to say the least; Guru Dev wanted Maharishi to become Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math being that rare person who lived His teachings. But He understood it (obviously) to be impossible since Maharishi is not a Brahmin. And how do you know that? There is no record of his having said that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
Can you describe the Indian Samskar theory?Jeff---I think different times of the day have different melodies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
Samsaras are anything that revolves like a wheel lifting one up and then casting one down. All of life is like this. All our emotions are like this. You cannot dig out hatred because it is a natural emotion. You cannot dig out any emotion, or get rid of anything because if you're alive then you will be pulled up at times and thrust down at other times. Therefore the only way to make life free from this is to just get with it and not worry about it. The first step is to not be so attached and adverse that one creates shock upon being lifted or cast. By acceptance one can experience less aftershocks from the original experience. It is proven that quick administering of a pain killer during pain makes a wound heal faster because of rebound shock from the pain itself. So also life in general. A quick antidote timely administered lessens the shocks of samsara. This was the whole point of self pulse diagnosis for those who remember. The next way is by providing mind training to understand the nature of the wheel. Understanding brings wisdom and lessens the shocks as well. Then furthermore one must understand the wheel itself and come to love it for what it is. This bhakti further lessens the wheel when it rolls over you. Finally one must add some new treads and maybe hip 20 inch chrome revolviing hubs and flash that bling. Then the wheel is a statement of joy, bounce bounce. Of course if one wants to get off the wheel it's as simple as knowing the unchanging nature of oneself as the pure consciousness and knowing it beyond a doubt so that when one dies they have no desire again for diversity, because after death so they say, the thoughts are more powerful not having to go through all sorts of manifestation and so what one desires then one gets really fast-like. Desire for dick leads to being a woman, and desire for twat leads to being a man, again, yet again. Although lines are getting a bit more confused. After all one gets a twat like Ann Coulter and then what, they decide they hate pussy after all and choose the dick instead and then ah never mind So that's why tempering the mind with the bliss of the absolute is so important when in the body. So that after the body the mind is safe. It's not like one gets rid of samasaras, until the final moments of liberation when they become sealed by the very deities who have been having them in ones mind stream. When you start seeing the deva then that means your mind stream has become of the nature of the upholding clear light of awareness enough to see the very sources of the pulls which bind one. Until one has sealed the various mandala of experience with the very deities which are the purified forms of things as they are one will still be under the wheel. Unless one has great control and can just say no in the bardo. But that ain't' gonna happen because in the bardo moreso than in real life your own karma will tempt you more than ever before. Ta Dedicated too those chickens who fucked up in the bardo and are fast becoming fajitas. May they be liberated this time around. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/23/05 3:41 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very nicely said. You're good at this, Jeff. Do you get a chance to perform auditing yourself, or other- wise teach within the organization? Thanks. Yes, I'm an auditor and lecturer. I deal mostly with people for whom it is all brand new. Cool. Back in the TM world, I used to like doing intro lectures. I wound up giving a lot of advanced lectures at centers and residence courses, but to be honest the best thing I liked about them was not the prepared spiel but the QA. I liked that process of being thrown a question I had no canned answer for, and having an answer come out anyway, distilled from 20 different things I'd heard in 20 different situations but had never pulled together before, and intuiting that it was an *OK* answser. Real magic. When I was teaching TTC I told Maharishi that I often had the experience that people would ask a question to which I didn't know the answer, but that I would start with a few words and then the answer would just come out. Maharishi said something like, Very good, that's how I do it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/23/05 9:16 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was teaching TTC I told Maharishi that I often had the experience that people would ask a question to which I didn't know the answer, but that I would start with a few words and then the answer would just come out. Maharishi said something like, Very good, that's how I do it. Yep, MMY never had any clue about anything he's talking about. He just read from some script prepared for him by Sanskrit scholars because he couldn't read sanskrit... The point of the story is that he taught largely from intuition. Knowledge just flowed out as it was needed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/22/05 6:18 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you know Hartmut Beyerbach? He was a friend of mine and used to run the press. I think he left in 1977 or so. YES. Yes, he was my first boss. We left on the same day the press, he for 6 month course and I for phase I. (After him Eberhard overtook the press. Doberstein, right? He was a nice guy. Quiet and gentle but adamant in his determination to accomplish things. With whom I spent most time. I think he is still doing it, and whatever is still there from the machines went to India, to Japalbur,) After his course I heard he went to Muktananda, Hartmut was what I used to call a Billy Clayton casualty. Billy filled him in on the MMY/sex stuff, along with Fred den Ouden, and others, and they left. who had seen Maharishi in 76 in Seelisberg. After Muktananda he went to Osho. He organized the first Sannyas discos in Germany that were a big success. What were those? I met him again only in 1993 when I sat next to him in Lucknow at Poonjaji. Boy, he really got around. Wonder where he is now. He told me that there was another guy in the press who was enlightened called Arjuna, whith whom he was in the US. At that time he was living in the US and had a japanese wife AFAIK. I saw Arjuna just two weeks ago, when he came to our place. Is that Arjuna Nick Ardaugh, who is British, or a German Arjuna? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/22/05 6:18 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you know Hartmut Beyerbach? He was a friend of mine and used to run the press. I think he left in 1977 or so. YES. Yes, he was my first boss. We left on the same day the press, he for 6 month course and I for phase I. (After him Eberhard overtook the press. Doberstein, right? He was a nice guy. Quiet and gentle but adamant in his determination to accomplish things. With whom I spent most time. I think he is still doing it, and whatever is still there from the machines went to India, to Japalbur,) After his course I heard he went to Muktananda, Hartmut was what I used to call a Billy Clayton casualty. Billy filled him in on the MMY/sex stuff, along with Fred den Ouden, and others, and they left. who had seen Maharishi in 76 in Seelisberg. After Muktananda he went to Osho. He organized the first Sannyas discos in Germany that were a big success. What were those? I met him again only in 1993 when I sat next to him in Lucknow at Poonjaji. Boy, he really got around. Wonder where he is now. He told me that there was another guy in the press who was enlightened called Arjuna, whith whom he was in the US. At that time he was living in the US and had a japanese wife AFAIK. I saw Arjuna just two weeks ago, when he came to our place. Is that Arjuna Nick Ardaugh, who is British, or a German Arjuna? I saw him several years ago in Miami. Very nice, authentic guy. I sat next to him and my mind completely stopped. It was prettty funny because whatever my intention had been that was structuring my thought process just disappeared. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes this was Norbert. He was a big fan of an initiator who imagined himself having been Ernst Röhm, chief of the SA who was executed by Hitler later on. My understanding is that it was specifically Hermann Goering who eliminated his rival Rohm, after (presumably) causing the Reichstag fire and (certainly) exploiting it to eradicate homeland civil rights in the name of security. I'm a uniter, not a divider. I refuse to play the politics of putting people into groups and pitting one group against another. George Bush, May 6, 1999 He's also a gigantic, moronic, neurologically impaired, tremendous asshole. Have a pitta day. Which he would that be? Norbert? Rory? Goering? Bush? All of the above? Duh. This is what the samskara free mind projects. No, it projets anonymously. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
I have followed with some interest the career of rocket scientist John Jack Parsons and Hubbard. In fact Parsons just had a new biography published. Hubbard and Parsons worked together on a ritual called the Babalon working which was a rite to incarnate Babalon, essentially a form of Kali, in human form. The idea was that this would be Parson's spiritual mate who could help him manifest anything, including complete enlightenment. Well something backfired. As the ritual working came to climax, Parson ended up killing himself in an explosion at Cal Tech and Hubbard got the manifested form of Babalon as his wife. Shortly thereafter Hubbard begins his rise to power. This is all very Gnostic. In fact if one looks closely at Hubbards system, it clearly has parallels to the Neoplatonic idea of the *idios daemon*--the personal Daemon (not to be confused with *demon*). The same practice is what became the ideal of the Holy Guardian Angel. Its primary practice is that of Knowledge and Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel. Correct completion of this path often manifests as an elaborate system of attaining various ends, mundane and spiritual, not unlike what Scientology has become in our modern scientific era. The parallels between Scientology and Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel are undeniable in my opinion, there are just too many examples in that system for it to be otherwise. Given both Parson's and Hubbard's interests, one only has to look as far as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn for a source of these ideas. Unfortunately it seems the purity of that system of attainment seems to have been obscured in Scientology as is often the case in any institution or hierarchical system. In any event, its interesting to see how a western tradition of enlightenment can manifest in a scientific era. On Jun 22, 2005, at 9:45 AM, t3rinity wrote: Hubbard was a colorful personaility to say the least. Just last night I did some internet research on all I could get hold on about scientology. I have clearly experienced how through enlightenment experiences concepts vanish, and realized that our conditioning is holding us back. The idea to work on this conditioning is therefore interesting to me. I found that Hubbard was obviously a big fan of Aleister Crowley, and made some very secret mackic rituals with one of his disciples called Jack Parson, he even overtook his girlfriend. http://www.religio.de/atack/occ1.html There is also some speculation that the word Dianetics is reminescent of the Goddess Diana. Hubbard had appearances of a goddess he called the Empress. Scientology became an amalgan between psychotherapy, mackic and basically gnostic thought. In its later stages, from OT3 on, it becomes a sort of psychotherapeutic exorcism. There is a strange story called OT3,a sort of science fiction fairy tale you can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu which accounts for the existence of quasy demonic uncounscious souls,which occupy our body limbs by the thousands according to Hubbard,and are conscequently exorcised,i.e. liberated through auditing from OT3 to OT7. See http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html There is also a controversy about that according to sci religious ideas have been implanted by the 'bad guy' xenu intohuman brains in order to control us called R6. In the highest level OT8 one alledgedly has to abondan these ideas see http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot8b.html This is clearly gnostic thought,were the creator of the heavens is being looked down at as basically the imprisoner of thought. So scientology does retain its originally gnostic/mackic attribute. In having a great emphazis on reincarnation, karma, release of karma, identifying ourselves as Gods, it is much closer to Hindu and Buddhist philosophy than to Xthianity, which I think is a good thing. It also seems that the everage practitioner is not necessarily acquqainted with these higher philosophical aspects, and simply uses the tools to become more 'aware' about his own conditioning, and releases it in a non-judgemental way. I came across webpages of people who parted with the organization for ovious reasons, but still did auditing, also of the higher levels, and there are independed organizations offering it, like http://freezoneamerica.org/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Vaj wrote: I have followed with some interest the career of rocket scientist John Jack Parsons and Hubbard. In fact Parsons just had a new biography published. Here a online review of the biography of Jack Parsons called Strange Angel: The Otherwordly Life Of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons by George Pendle. http://bookwaves.homestead.com/NewandReviewed.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 22, 2005, at 11:32 AM, t3rinity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is all very Gnostic. In fact if one looks closely at Hubbards system, it clearly has parallels to the Neoplatonic idea of the *idios daemon*--the personal Daemon That would be more like a Guardian Spirit? Not the BT's, right? Similar idea, who's to say the experience is the same unless both were experienced. In eastern terms it would be like the Jnana-dakini or Jnana-devi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
Reality check 1234, 4321 OK Stop with the maudlin shit already. They're called movements for one reason really. Because they're the shit. When they're happening. When they're over, One can't wipe enough. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: "...he got some mental problems and because of that, the Purusha board wanted to sent him away." Yeah, that's how a civilized "ideal society" reacts to someone developing mental problems, all right. Don't provide any real help for the person, send them away so that they aren't an embarrassment to the movement.Just following up, and hoping to temper my commentssomewhat, what this sad story brings out in me is asense of profound sadness at the memories it bringsup in me of my time in the TM movement, and in anotherspiritual trip. It's been 25 years or more since Ihad any real physical contact with the TMO, and 8 yearsor so since I had much contact with anyone from the Rama trip. But both organizations had something incommon, something *lacking*, that I've become awareof in the time since. The thing that was lacking wasa sense of sangha -- community.I'm rapping about it here to see if those who havelived in Fairfield can shed a different, possibly morepositive light on the subject. For me, in the fourteenyears I was involved in the TM community, it rarelystruck me as being that much of a community. Therewas shared knowledge, and shared techniques, and ashared lifestyle, and a shared goal -- enlightenment.With all those things going for it, it should havelogically been an environment in which people caredabout each other deeply, and were there to help oneanother if they got into a spot of emotional trouble.But it really wasn't like that, in my experience. Itwas more like one's fellow seekers were nice to havearound as long as they were "on the program." The"program" was more important than the people followingthe program.Go slightly "off" the program, and one learned *very*quickly just where one stood within the sangha. Ifyou expressed a few doubts, it started with shunning,and could progress to apostasy and excommunication ifyou didn't keep your mouth shut. Start to develop some emotional problems, and there was rarely anyoneyou could turn to. Not just no one to turn to forhelp -- how many of us, after all, were trained *to*help in such situations, but even to *talk* to. Itwas as if the people who had such problems ran intothe "we don't focus on negativity" wall of silence.When the behavior or the doubts reached the point of"excommunication," the apostates almost overnight became "ex." They were forgotten; it was if they had never existed. It was embarrassing to think aboutthem, because to think about them poked holes in theoh-so-carefully-constructed myth, so no one ever did.In retrospect, it was just the weirdest thing.And it wasn't just TM. Please don't interpret thisas a "dump on TM alone" rap. I saw *exactly* the samepattern in the Rama trip. And I've encountered it inother spiritual organizations since.But I've also encountered the opposite, organizationsthat embody a true sense of sangha, communities thatcare very deeply about its members, and are there forthem if they get into trouble. It's a wonderful thingto see and feel and be around. In such communities,the myth of what the community is about is never moreimportant than the reality of what the community isabout. There is rarely an attempt to hide behaviorthat is considered "off the program" or "embarrassing."There is almost never an attempt to shun or stigmatizesomeone because they have a few doubts; in many ofthese organizations, doubt is seen as an important partof the spiritual process, something that *everyone*goes through along the Way. There is also rarely anattempt to hide behavior that is considered "embarras-sing," because there is no all-pervading image that could be embarrassed.So I guess I'm just asking how people at FFL feel aboutthis issue. Was your experience in the TM communitylike mine, or, as is likely, did the experience of living in a physical community (like Fairfield) bringreal elements of "community" to the community?UncTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yaho
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
On Jun 21, 2005, at 11:44 AM, Jeff Fischer wrote: People do come in to start trouble and attack us. I have witnessed and handled it several times myself. Could the vast majority be characterized as from a particular sector, e.g. fundamentalist or conservative Christian? It always seemed to me that the vast majority were Christian cult buster types--which is kinda funny as I would consider these fundie types would fit the description of cult mentality quite well on their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
My point was to Barry. It was this. Stop the maudlin crying in your beer over the suicide guy. You also weren't there for him. Next time be a better person, or don't, but don't weep about it later as if yours is the only heart that bleeds. You already said you didn't like my shit tRitnity. 2 points. One, I don't care, and 2 I didn't ask you. Now you can tell me again a third time too someday, and I'll just also repeat what I just said. - Original Message - From: t3rinity To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote:Sorry, I don't understand you Kirk. Better care about your ownreality. I am not too interested. Reality check 1234, 4321 OK Stop with the maudlin shit already. They're called movements for one reason really. Because they're the shit. When they're happening. When they're over, One can't wipe enough.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/21/05 5:17 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the time in the movement I was sort of on an island within the movement, agroup between 10 to max. 30 people, who were sworn together, and that was the Meru Press. Did you know Hartmut Beyerbach? He was a friend of mine and used to run the press. I think he left in 1977 or so. On Purusha I found a similar situation with acertain group of people which was self-selected, that is the people whom you liked to hang out with. That was not necessarily your official group. When I left, that is, I had to leave - it was ultimately decided by Maharishi himself - as I had but this enquiry where I belonged to before him - I was already deeply committed to Mother Meera - Are you still with her? That's for taking the time to write what you've been writing. Very balanced and insightful. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Sense of Sangha (was Re: balancing techniques)
on 6/21/05 7:08 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand. Maybe on Purursha there were all these old timers who have gone through a lot of stuff themselves. I found them to be a lot more tolerant and not-cultlike than some of the new teachers in the centers. For example P just came from the Phillipines, and most of them had been out to see healers. It was nothing special to them. We chartered buses in the Philippines to see the healers. The TM-Sidhi administrators went as well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
