Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can a crazy person be enlightened?
On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:38 AM, new.morning wrote: This also brings up the questions: Can an enlightened -- even the most highly enlightened: 1) be a sexual lecher 2) cut corners in business deals, and be an abnormally hard and tricky bargainer? 3) fell the ends justify the means in fund raising an volunteer efforts 4) Take credit for scriptural interpretations not his own 5) treat people sternly an direct anger at them (particularly when its called for) 6) Lie 7) Cheat 8) break codes of conduct 9) cheat on taxes and currency transfers 10) bribe officials to get things done 11) burn out personal assistants 12) run authoritarian and anal organizations 13) become unhealthy, with numerous diseases 14) have a bawdy sense of humor 15) fart in public 16) eat a bad diet 17) curse 18) not tolerate fools 19) like luxurious surroundings 20) have visions of creating a new order to last 10,000 years 21) discriminate and/or prejudge among different groups of people 22) admire dictators and tyrants 23) call some leaders to be devils 24) be homsexual 25) be a pedaphile 26) sleep with students and devotees 27) sleep until noon 28) like I Love Lucy and cartoons 29) Like heavy metal 30) give special treatment to rich donors 31) eat meat 32) be out of shape, not fit Depends on the circumstances, the interdependently arising conditions surrounding the events and how you define enlightenment. Is the Big E full Buddhahood or just a Stream Enterer? CC, GC, UC or BC? What is enlightened activity?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can a crazy person be enlightened?
Every thing is relative. On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:38 AM, new.morning wrote: 1) be a sexual lecher Not a good sign, but again, depends on circumstances. See The Divine Madman. Drukpa Kunleg had sexual relations with a number of ripe women presumably to assist in their awakening. The great female saint Yeshe Tsogyal awakened the mindstreams of her rapists. If it fosters awakening, it could be awakened activity. If it creates fear and confusion, etc., it's probably not enlightened activity. 2) cut corners in business deals, and be an abnormally hard and tricky bargainer? In others words, ignore fair trade for to benefit one person or org over another? Sounds like a form of dishonesty to me. 3) fell the ends justify the means in fund raising an volunteer efforts ??? Depends on the means and the ends? 4) Take credit for scriptural interpretations not his own Lying. Not a good sign. 5) treat people sternly an direct anger at them (particularly when its called for) Depends what the underlying intent is and the cause of the directed anger. 6) Lie See 4. 7) Cheat Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 8) break codes of conduct Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 9) cheat on taxes and currency transfers Breaking the laws of a country? Not good, ignoring relative realities. How could we accept such a beings absolute declarations if their handling of relative reality is faulty? 10) bribe officials to get things done Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 11) burn out personal assistants Not a good sign. Ever meet HHDL's personal assistant/translator? 12) run authoritarian and anal organizations Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 13) become unhealthy, with numerous diseases Welcome to samsara. 14) have a bawdy sense of humor Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 15) fart in public According to Ayurveda, there are certain urges which should not be suppressed. Farting is one of them. Best performed with good air circulation. 16) eat a bad diet Treating your vehicle badly is generally a bad action because if you're enlightened and have a diet which will impair the body, you will lose the vehicle you use to awaken and remove suffering. 17) curse Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 18) not tolerate fools Lack of compassion, not a good sign re: spontaneous qualities (of an enlightened being). 19) like luxurious surroundings Attachment. Not a good sign, but relative. 20) have visions of creating a new order to last 10,000 years Lack of understanding of impermanence, not a good sign. 21) discriminate and/or prejudge among different groups of people Lack of sama, not a good sign. Still caught in accepting and judging mental constructs. 22) admire dictators and tyrants Not a good sign, but depends on specific circumstances. 23) call some leaders to be devils Depends on the leader and circumstances. 24) be homsexual As long as it harms no other beings, what's the big deal? 25) be a pedaphile Harming sentient beings, very bad sign. 26) sleep with students and devotees Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 27) sleep until noon Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. Some yogis do their sadhana while sleeping. 28) like I Love Lucy and cartoons Good sign. 29) Like heavy metal Irrelevant. 30) give special treatment to rich donors Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 31) eat meat Depends on what the underlying motivation is and the overall effect of the actions. 32) be out of shape, not fit See 16, file under treating physical vehicle badly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can a crazy person be enlightened?
On Jul 29, 2007, at 4:24 PM, suziezuzie wrote: I once had some dental work done, a crown that had zinc in it. For five months, I experienced what it was like being clinically insane, even telling my four year old daughter to make sure she took care of mommy after I committed suicide. Everyday, I planed different ways to accomplish this as my mental state spiraled lower and lower. The funny thing though was, the worse things got, the more I witnessed this whole crazy experience, like there was the Being just watching, and the more separated I became from reality, the more concrete the Being became. This experience made me more aware of that Fullness rather than less. Five months later, I had the crown removed and all the crazy symptoms immediately disappeared. Can a person be crazy and yet enlightened? Probably because, I was. As painful as it might be (put also therapeutic at the same time) if you wrote of your spiritual journey and weave into it this story, you'd have a great novel or screenplay!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can a crazy person be enlightened?
On Jul 29, 2007, at 4:42 PM, t3rinity wrote: Typically, many of the Avadhutas, would act crazy, no ordinary communication, no doubt hey would be closed away in the west. They have no interest in money, traveling, disciples, and usually don't belong to any lineage. In Hinduism they are usually asociated with Dattatreya, who is surrounded by dogs. The Avadhut Gita is attributed to him. This is what one Avadhut has to say: 'The world calls me mad. I am mad, you are mad, all the world is mad. Who is not mad? Still these madman call me mad. Some are mad after name and fame. Some are mad after money. Some are mad after flesh. But blessed is he who is mad after God; such a madcap am I!' (translated by S. Thakar, Songs of the Avadhut) http://www.rangavadhoot.com/ In the US and elsewhere, the archetype of the wild Avadhuta/Natha is that of the homeless. Totally beyond conventionality, beyond limits. Reminds me of the classic Dzogchen/Mahasandhi saying: As a bee seeks nectar from all kinds of flowers, seek teachings everywhere. Like a deer that finds a quiet place to graze, seek seclusion to digest all you have gathered. Like a lion, live completely free of all fear. And, finally, like a madman, beyond all limits, go wherever you please.
