Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history

2016-03-20 Thread Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
Correct. But the point is, that Jesus has not revealed himself to his brothers 
yet, just as Zaphenathpaneah had not. "you shall not see Me here again until 
you have learned to cry and say blessed is He that comes in the name of the 
Lord". This could not happen before certain prophesies, mostly from Daniel, 
have been fulfilled. Most importantly, Jews being returned to the land of 
Israel and the end of Gentile rule in Jerusalem. 


  From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 12:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history
   
    MD,
That's an interesting story of Joseph.  But, as I understand it, the orthodox 
Jews believe in a "political" messiah who will give them back the kingdom and 
glory that King David once wielded in the land of Judah.  That's one of the 
main reasons why they can't accept Jesus Christ as the messiah.  They could not 
or would not understand that Jesus, as he preached, was and is the ruler of the 
kingdom within, the realm of the spirit within or the absolute consciousness.
It's also interesting that the coming of an enlightened man or the Omega man, 
was stated in the writings of Teilhard Chardin, the late controversial writer 
in the Roman Catholic church.  Although he did not use the vedic words siddha 
or yuga cycle, some of the vedic concepts are implied in his writings.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :

John, there was a rabbinic teaching that Messiah would come twice. First as the 
"suffering servant" as described in Isaiah 53, the lamb of God who takes away 
the sins of the world and then later returns as the Lion of Judah. Most 
orthodox Jews don't recognize this scenario and are content to wait for the 
*finished product*It is said in the Christian tradition that the Old testament 
is the truth *concealed*(hidden) and the New Testament is the truth 
*revealed*(fulfilled)Look at the story of Joseph.The parallels of the life of 
Joseph and of Jesus tell the story. 
First, Joseph is his father's favorite son, who's brothers are greatly jealous 
of because of his advanced spiritual knowledge and abilities. They hate him so 
much that they beat him, threw him in a pit and sold him for thirty pieces of 
silver as a slave.Second, Joseph uses his knowledge and power to rise up to 
become the Prime minister of Egypt, second in power only  to the god of Egypt, 
the Pharaoh, who has complete trust in him. He is then known as 
Zaphenathpaneah. Zaphenathpaneah is approached by his brothers, who don't 
recognize him and beg for food because of famine in their land. Zaphenathpaneah 
tests them by falsely accusing them and throwing them in prison. When the 
brothers realize they are being punished by God for what they did to their 
brother, Joseph, they confess their guilt to Zaphenathpaneah and ask for 
forgiveness. Zaphenathpaneah reveals himself as their brother Joseph by showing 
that he was circumcised and a Jew. Joseph then forgives them and brings the 
entire family into Egypt and gives them the best land Egypt has to offer.One 
person, two different identities. Joseph and Zaphenathpaneah. The story of 
Joseph is the foreshadowed story of the Messiah. The suffering servant and the 
Lion of Judah who sits at the right hand of the power of God.
 

  From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 7:43 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history
 
 yfxero,
I was thinking the other day that the Judeo-Christian tradition has a hidden 
idea of the yuga cycle that is mentioned in the vedic texts.  Specifically, the 
story of the Fall in the Garden of Eden has seed thoughts that human beings 
appeared on earth with the highest level of consciousness.  But, due to the 
temptation of Satan, Adam and Eve fell from this level to the lowest level of 
consciousness, which is represented by them being cast out from the Garden.  In 
vedic thought, the highest level of consciousness is represented by the Satya 
Yuga and the lowest level is represented by Kali Yuga.
Similarly, the Jewish tradition, particularly the writing of Isaiah, promises 
the return of the messiah who will save the people from bondage.  This return 
is similar to the beginning of a new cycle of Satya Yuga after completing the 
Kali Yuga.  However, the orthodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to 
come, whereas the Christians believe the messiah has already come in the person 
of Jesus Christ.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <yifuxero@...> wrote :

11 min video summary of Christian history from Jesus to Constantine.
Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course World History #11
|  |
|  | |  | Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course... In 
which John Gree

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history

2016-03-20 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
MD, 

 That's an interesting story of Joseph.  But, as I understand it, the orthodox 
Jews believe in a "political" messiah who will give them back the kingdom and 
glory that King David once wielded in the land of Judah.  That's one of the 
main reasons why they can't accept Jesus Christ as the messiah.  They could not 
or would not understand that Jesus, as he preached, was and is the ruler of the 
kingdom within, the realm of the spirit within or the absolute consciousness.
 

 It's also interesting that the coming of an enlightened man or the Omega man, 
was stated in the writings of Teilhard Chardin, the late controversial writer 
in the Roman Catholic church.  Although he did not use the vedic words siddha 
or yuga cycle, some of the vedic concepts are implied in his writings.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 John, there was a rabbinic teaching that Messiah would come twice. First as 
the "suffering servant" as described in Isaiah 53, the lamb of God who takes 
away the sins of the world and then later returns as the Lion of Judah. Most 
orthodox Jews don't recognize this scenario and are content to wait for the 
*finished product*
 It is said in the Christian tradition that the Old testament is the truth 
*concealed*(hidden) and the New Testament is the truth *revealed*(fulfilled)
 Look at the story of Joseph.
 The parallels of the life of Joseph and of Jesus tell the story. 

 First, Joseph is his father's favorite son, who's brothers are greatly jealous 
of because of his advanced spiritual knowledge and abilities. They hate him so 
much that they beat him, threw him in a pit and sold him for thirty pieces of 
silver as a slave.
 Second, Joseph uses his knowledge and power to rise up to become the Prime 
minister of Egypt, second in power only  to the god of Egypt, the Pharaoh, who 
has complete trust in him. He is then known as Zaphenathpaneah.
  Zaphenathpaneah is approached by his brothers, who don't recognize him and 
beg for food because of famine in their land. Zaphenathpaneah tests them by 
falsely accusing them and throwing them in prison. When the brothers realize 
they are being punished by God for what they did to their brother, Joseph, they 
confess their guilt to Zaphenathpaneah and ask for forgiveness. Zaphenathpaneah 
reveals himself as their brother Joseph by showing that he was circumcised and 
a Jew. Joseph then forgives them and brings the entire family into Egypt and 
gives them the best land Egypt has to offer.
 One person, two different identities. Joseph and Zaphenathpaneah. The story of 
Joseph is the foreshadowed story of the Messiah. The suffering servant and the 
Lion of Judah who sits at the right hand of the power of God.
 
 


 From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 7:43 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history
 
 
   yfxero,
 

 I was thinking the other day that the Judeo-Christian tradition has a hidden 
idea of the yuga cycle that is mentioned in the vedic texts.  Specifically, the 
story of the Fall in the Garden of Eden has seed thoughts that human beings 
appeared on earth with the highest level of consciousness.  But, due to the 
temptation of Satan, Adam and Eve fell from this level to the lowest level of 
consciousness, which is represented by them being cast out from the Garden.  In 
vedic thought, the highest level of consciousness is represented by the Satya 
Yuga and the lowest level is represented by Kali Yuga.
 

 Similarly, the Jewish tradition, particularly the writing of Isaiah, promises 
the return of the messiah who will save the people from bondage.  This return 
is similar to the beginning of a new cycle of Satya Yuga after completing the 
Kali Yuga.  However, the orthodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to 
come, whereas the Christians believe the messiah has already come in the person 
of Jesus Christ.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 11 min video summary of Christian history from Jesus to Constantine.
 

 Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course World History #11 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY
 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY
 
 Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY In which John Green teaches you the 
history of Christianity, from the beginnings of Judaism and the development of 
monotheism, right up to Paul and how ...


 
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY 
 Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history

2016-03-20 Thread Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
John, there was a rabbinic teaching that Messiah would come twice. First as the 
"suffering servant" as described in Isaiah 53, the lamb of God who takes away 
the sins of the world and then later returns as the Lion of Judah. Most 
orthodox Jews don't recognize this scenario and are content to wait for the 
*finished product*It is said in the Christian tradition that the Old testament 
is the truth *concealed*(hidden) and the New Testament is the truth 
*revealed*(fulfilled)Look at the story of Joseph.The parallels of the life of 
Joseph and of Jesus tell the story. 
 First, Joseph is his father's favorite son, who's brothers are greatly jealous 
of because of his advanced spiritual knowledge and abilities. They hate him so 
much that they beat him, threw him in a pit and sold him for thirty pieces of 
silver as a slave.Second, Joseph uses his knowledge and power to rise up to 
become the Prime minister of Egypt, second in power only  to the god of Egypt, 
the Pharaoh, who has complete trust in him. He is then known as 
Zaphenathpaneah. Zaphenathpaneah is approached by his brothers, who don't 
recognize him and beg for food because of famine in their land. Zaphenathpaneah 
tests them by falsely accusing them and throwing them in prison. When the 
brothers realize they are being punished by God for what they did to their 
brother, Joseph, they confess their guilt to Zaphenathpaneah and ask for 
forgiveness. Zaphenathpaneah reveals himself as their brother Joseph by showing 
that he was circumcised and a Jew. Joseph then forgives them and brings the 
entire family into Egypt and gives them the best land Egypt has to offer.One 
person, two different identities. Joseph and Zaphenathpaneah. The story of 
Joseph is the foreshadowed story of the Messiah. The suffering servant and the 
Lion of Judah who sits at the right hand of the power of God.
 

  From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 7:43 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity history
   
    yfxero,
I was thinking the other day that the Judeo-Christian tradition has a hidden 
idea of the yuga cycle that is mentioned in the vedic texts.  Specifically, the 
story of the Fall in the Garden of Eden has seed thoughts that human beings 
appeared on earth with the highest level of consciousness.  But, due to the 
temptation of Satan, Adam and Eve fell from this level to the lowest level of 
consciousness, which is represented by them being cast out from the Garden.  In 
vedic thought, the highest level of consciousness is represented by the Satya 
Yuga and the lowest level is represented by Kali Yuga.
Similarly, the Jewish tradition, particularly the writing of Isaiah, promises 
the return of the messiah who will save the people from bondage.  This return 
is similar to the beginning of a new cycle of Satya Yuga after completing the 
Kali Yuga.  However, the orthodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to 
come, whereas the Christians believe the messiah has already come in the person 
of Jesus Christ.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

11 min video summary of Christian history from Jesus to Constantine.
Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course World History #11
|  |
|  | |  | Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course... In 
which John Green teaches you the history of Christianity, from the beginnings 
of Judaism and the development of monotheism, right up to Paul and how ... |  |
| View on www.youtube.com   |   Preview by Yahoo  |
|  |

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-12 Thread Robert Gimbel 



Hey People, 
 As I see it, Maharishi has realized God, perhaps a bit more than the rest of us. That is not to say he is God. 
The debate about who says who is God, I think originated with the Romans and the adoption of Chrisianity as the state religion of Rome.
In those days, the establishment, wanted to seperate thenew Roman ReligiousGod- Jesus, from being asssociated with anything Jewish.
Thus, Jesus, was said to be the Son of God, and the rest of us, just mere mortals.
As you can see, from the garb of the Pope, in the Vatican in Rome, that the whole thing is still very Roman; down to the kissing of the ring. This is all reminescent of Caesar, as the Emperor of Rome, and the command to regard Caesar as God. (something the Jews always refused to do- and the Romans destroyed Isreal in 70 AD.
 Any-how, we areall sons and daughters of God, all quite capible of miracles, as we become more God- Realized; as we allow more of our soul energy in, and let more of the ego energy out. 
 Maharishi is just a great sage, and a yogi, who is as devoted to raising the consciousness of human-kind. 
R.G.Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From where have you drawn the conclusion that MMY is somehow closer toGod than somebody else?Isn't that a hastily drawn conclusion? In matters of that significance I wouldn't draw conclusions at all.Through my eyes I see every living entity being as close to God asanyone else. Everything is _expression_ of God.Irmeli--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Good point Rick, though I the invective directed at Maharishi was  getting a little too deep for my comfort.  On the one hand I deeply appreciate the unvarnished truth as we know  it being expressed here. It is certainly vastly preferable to a bunch  of TM clones parroting the 'party line' (which by the way is a useful  exercise in training the mind, but something more appropriate for 
 nursery school vs. kindergarten, where we now find ourselves...).  On the other hand, to say that Maharishi is an extraordinarily  enlightened man, i.e. one who's every action is selfless activity in  the light of God, and then to criticize it, i.e. to criticize God's  instrument, well you can see where I have an issue with that. It  strikes me as supremely arrogant. Really chomping down on the hand  that feeds us.   So I am entirely OK if someone deeply questions what Maharishi is up  to; that is the nature of our quest, question everything, take nothing  for granted. It is the judgment of Maharishi though, hence of God, the  inference that we can act out the Supreme Play better than God can  that I completely disagree with.  And as I look over that last statement, I can see someone may question  my equating of Maharishi with God. What I mean by stating it
 so is  that once one gets close enough to God, where is the difference?  Whether we are submerged in Him, or Him Himself, what is the  difference? I don't have the answer to that, just the question.  So how do we know Maharishi is indeed flawed by what he says or does?  We really don't. What I see instead are a couple of cultural and  personal elements playing out here:  1. The western mind's desire for instant judgment, instant  gratification. While it may be honest to reach hasty conclusions, they  are often incorrect, seen in the light of a longer timeframe.  (Although I am an average white american I grew up in Southeast Asia.  The mentality regarding time in the east is very different. The  thinking is different; wait and see, wait and see.)  This is not an indictment of west vs east, just a statement on the  relative value of time for
 western mind vs eastern mind.  2. A lot of us here bought into the idea of instant or quick  enlightenment. Maharishi calls it as he sees it. On the background of  infinity, what is ten years, fifty years, a lifetime?  Guru Dev's programs are very pure and very powerful. Nonetheless it  doesn't mean that we should not remain constantly vigilant towards our  little ego's tricks. Guru Dev had no patience for the flailing of the  little ego. He would kick its ass without a moment's hesitation. Along  with infinite and universal love, that is his vibration.  So all of the Maharishi is this and Maharishi is that means not much.  Sure we all bought into various constructs of the mind, various trade- offs for 'enlightenment'. Examine them ruthlessly; let's not offer our  failures as clothing for Maharishi.  Thanks,  Jim
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  There's a third view, expressed here often by me, Dr. Pete, and  others,  which is that Maharishi is an extraordinarily enlightened human  being whose  relative personality is flawed in various ways, as reflected in  things he  has said and done over the years. This view is invalidated by the  belief  that everyone is perfect just as they are, if you choose to look at  it that  way.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Vaj 

On May 10, 2005, at 8:05 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:

 But fortunately it still attracts some.  I like the way my favorite
 songwriter, Bruce Cockburn, once put it:

To be one more voice in the human choir
rising like smoke from the mystical fire of the heart

I think him calling it the Gospel of Bondage was even more apropos.

  Tabloids, bellowing raw delight
  Hail the return of the Teutonic Knights
  Inbred for purity and spoiling for a fight,
  Another little puppet of the New Right

  See-through dollars and mystery plagues
  Varied detritus of Aquarian Age
  Shutters on storefronts and shutters in the mind -
  We kill ourselves to keep ourselves safe from crime.
  That's the gospel of bondage...

  We're so afraid of disorder we make it into a god
  We can only placate with state security laws
  Whose church consists of secret courts and wiretaps and shocks
  Whose priests hold smoking guns, and whose sign is the double cross
  But God must be on the side of the side that's right
  And not the right that justifies itself in terms of might -
  Least of all a bunch of neo-nazis running hooded through the night
  Which may be why He's so consipicuously out of sight
  Of the gospel of bondage...

  You read the Bible in your special ways
  You're fond of quoting certain things it says -
  Mouth full of righteousness and wrath from above
  But when do we hear about forgiveness and love?

  Sometimes you can hear the Spirit whispering to you,
  But if God stays silent, what else can you do
  Except listen to the silence? if you ever did you'd surely see
  That God won't be reduced to an ideology
  Such as the gospel of bondage...





-V.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Vaj 

On May 10, 2005, at 7:55 AM, claudiouk wrote:

 Going back to MMY, and his handling of the Movement, isn't it odd
 how Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has quietly, non-controversially been
 aiming for and achieving more of the same goals of MMY - real
 government ministers attend his conferences; he speaks to the UN; is
 nominated for a Noble Prize etc. I know little else about him, other
 than he used to be part of MMY's set up.

Let's not forget he actually gave huge amounts of money to the tsunami 
cause--and his website too was quickly put to work doing service to 
humankind. Mahesh is by comparison a taker--rarely if ever following 
thru on empty promises to bring Ayurved to the poor, etc.

Have you seen one thing about the tsunami victims on a TMO page? If so, 
I bet it was only well after the fact.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Peter Sutphen 
The idea of seva or service has always been sorely
lacking in the TMO and with MMY.

--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On May 10, 2005, at 7:55 AM, claudiouk wrote:
 
  Going back to MMY, and his handling of the
 Movement, isn't it odd
  how Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has quietly,
 non-controversially been
  aiming for and achieving more of the same goals of
 MMY - real
  government ministers attend his conferences; he
 speaks to the UN; is
  nominated for a Noble Prize etc. I know little
 else about him, other
  than he used to be part of MMY's set up.
 
 Let's not forget he actually gave huge amounts of
 money to the tsunami 
 cause--and his website too was quickly put to work
 doing service to 
 humankind. Mahesh is by comparison a taker--rarely
 if ever following 
 thru on empty promises to bring Ayurved to the poor,
 etc.
 
 Have you seen one thing about the tsunami victims on
 a TMO page? If so, 
 I bet it was only well after the fact.
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Vaj 

On May 10, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote:

 The idea of seva or service has always been sorely
 lacking in the TMO and with MMY.

Yeah. It was a missing piece. It only seems natural to me now that once 
you expand and get blissed that the natural progression--the 
evolutionary thing--would be to make that bliss into love...and spread 
it around.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Llundrub 





Rather Seva was demanded and people 
were stuck in shit jobs for the rest of their stay. If they wished to move over 
somewhere the answer was no. They always only put me on dishes despite my 
desire to do anything else. They never gave me an ear. Fuck the movement. They 
suck. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vaj 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:17 
AM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 
  Christianity
  On May 10, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Peter Sutphen 
  wrote: The idea of seva or service has always been sorely 
  lacking in the TMO and with MMY.Yeah. It was a missing piece. It only 
  seems natural to me now that once you expand and get "blissed" that the 
  natural progression--the evolutionary thing--would be to make that bliss 
  into love...and spread it around.To subscribe, 
  send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Rick Archer 
on 5/10/05 10:12 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The idea of seva or service has always been sorely
 lacking in the TMO and with MMY.

There's plenty of seva to MMY, MUM, etc. Staff are explicitly requested to
work tirelessly, and are are often told not to question or get creative
with policies and directives - just to work. There's a macho pride in how
hard one works, pulling all-nighters, etc. After a big project such as the
preparation for the Taste of Utopia course, people are publicly praised for
their sleepless dedication. But I've never seen any sort of seva directly
applied to the needy. In Mallorca, Maharishi said People are poor because
they are lazy. Maharishi's expressed philosophy has always been that we
help the disadvantaged most effectively by approaching and winning the
support of the wealthy and influential, who in turn will help the
disadvantaged. The metaphysical equivalent of this approach is that we don't
deal with problems directly, because that would be watering the leaves and
there will be no end of problems. Rather, we enliven collective
consciousness and the nourishment at that root level will enrich more
manifest levels and thus eradicate problems.

I almost sound like Bob Brigante here, but my implication is that I don't
totally agree with this approach. If you're going to take it, you should
simultaneously work directly to help the needy, both for their sake and for
yours. It cultures compassion and selflessness.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Llundrub 





This is Seva at its 
finest:

http://www.lhainfo.org/updates.htm

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick 
  Archer 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:29 
AM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 
  Christianity
  on 5/10/05 10:12 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: The idea of seva or service has always been sorely 
  lacking in the TMO and with MMY.There's plenty of seva to MMY, MUM, 
  etc. Staff are explicitly requested towork tirelessly, and are are often 
  told not to question or get "creative"with policies and directives - just 
  to work. There's a macho pride in howhard one works, pulling all-nighters, 
  etc. After a big project such as thepreparation for the Taste of Utopia 
  course, people are publicly praised fortheir sleepless dedication. But 
  I've never seen any sort of seva directlyapplied to the needy. In 
  Mallorca, Maharishi said "People are poor becausethey are lazy." 
  Maharishi's expressed philosophy has always been that wehelp the 
  disadvantaged most effectively by approaching and winning thesupport of 
  the wealthy and influential, who in turn will help thedisadvantaged. The 
  metaphysical equivalent of this approach is that we don'tdeal with 
  problems directly, because that would be watering the leaves andthere will 
  be no end of problems. Rather, we enliven collectiveconsciousness and the 
  nourishment at that root level will enrich moremanifest levels and thus 
  eradicate problems.I almost sound like Bob Brigante here, but my 
  implication is that I don'ttotally agree with this approach. If you're 
  going to take it, you shouldsimultaneously work directly to help the 
  needy, both for their sake and foryours. It cultures compassion and 
  selflessness.To subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Peter Sutphen 
Sure, there are arguments in both directions on this
one. But seva does engender enlightenment, it's just
not a part of the TM program as it is not part of many
other spiritual sadhanas.

Another thought. I was thinking that what Guru Dev
could not accomplsh in the world, MMY did. Guru Dev
was the total inward stroke of tapas. MMY spread that
spiritual force to millions of individuals and
introduced meditation, literally, to the world. It's
really quite amazing to think about it. And what MMY
can not accomplish in the world, Sri Sri will. Their
personalities, dharmas, whatever, all limit them and
their impact on the world. It's obvious to all except
the most ridiculously self-blinded TB that the TMO is
pretty much kaput in the world. No one can take it
seriously anymore if they ever did. But as Claudia
pointed out SSRS has made very serious inroads, as it
were, into mainstream organizations around the world.
I think a lot of it has to do with his naturalness,
friendliness and lack of fanaticism. This is also
reflected in his followers, for lack of a better
term. Brahman just keeps rolling along!
-Peter

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 on 5/10/05 10:29 AM, Rick Archer at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 5/10/05 10:12 AM, Peter Sutphen at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  The idea of seva or service has always been
 sorely
  lacking in the TMO and with MMY.
  
  There's plenty of seva to MMY, MUM, etc. Staff are
 explicitly requested to
  work tirelessly, and are are often told not to
 question or get creative
  with policies and directives - just to work.
 There's a macho pride in how
  hard one works, pulling all-nighters, etc. After a
 big project such as the
  preparation for the Taste of Utopia course, people
 are publicly praised for
  their sleepless dedication. But I've never seen
 any sort of seva directly
  applied to the needy. In Mallorca, Maharishi said
 People are poor because
  they are lazy. Maharishi's expressed philosophy
 has always been that we
  help the disadvantaged most effectively by
 approaching and winning the
  support of the wealthy and influential, who in
 turn will help the
  disadvantaged. The metaphysical equivalent of this
 approach is that we don't
  deal with problems directly, because that would be
 watering the leaves and
  there will be no end of problems. Rather, we
 enliven collective
  consciousness and the nourishment at that root
 level will enrich more
  manifest levels and thus eradicate problems.
  
  I almost sound like Bob Brigante here, but my
 implication is that I don't
  totally agree with this approach. If you're going
 to take it, you should
  simultaneously work directly to help the needy,
 both for their sake and for
  yours. It cultures compassion and selflessness.
 
 An addendum to these thoughts: Teach a man to fish
 if you want to, but you'd
 better give him some fish to eat while he's
 learning, or he'll starve to
 death.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Rick Archer 
on 5/10/05 12:57 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 It is disturbing to see that the only two consciously prevalent
 options among many on this board regarding Maharishi are:
 
 1. That a positive view of what he is undertaking is somehow naive
 and unevolved, or
 
 2. That a negative view of him as deluded, criminal, thoughtless,
 unenlightened, selfish and rediculous is the only true conclusion of
 one who is being objective about the man.

There's a third view, expressed here often by me, Dr. Pete, and others,
which is that Maharishi is an extraordinarily enlightened human being whose
relative personality is flawed in various ways, as reflected in things he
has said and done over the years. This view is invalidated by the belief
that everyone is perfect just as they are, if you choose to look at it that
way.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Rick Archer 
on 5/10/05 2:25 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jim:
 So in conclusion I believe it is best to at worst reserve
 judgment about Maharishi, his motives and his direction.
 
 The only problem with reserving judgment, in the
 context of working with a live spiritual teacher, is
 that the spiritual teacher never gets any feedback
 suggesting that he might just be crazier than a box
 full of frogs.
 
 To put it in a different context (and, I hope, not
 too weird a context given the high nature of your
 post), just keeping quiet about the direction some-
 one you love seems to be heading in is a little like
 being one of Elvis' close friends and coworkers for
 years and never sitting him down and saying, Hey
 dude...you're FAT!

And over the years, Maharishi filtered out and trained the people around him
so that there was no one capable of or willing to give him that sort of
feedback.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Peter Sutphen 

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 on 5/10/05 12:57 PM, jim_flanegin at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  It is disturbing to see that the only two
 consciously prevalent
  options among many on this board regarding
 Maharishi are:
  
  1. That a positive view of what he is undertaking
 is somehow naive
  and unevolved, or
  
  2. That a negative view of him as deluded,
 criminal, thoughtless,
  unenlightened, selfish and rediculous is the only
 true conclusion of
  one who is being objective about the man.
 
 There's a third view, expressed here often by me,
 Dr. Pete, and others,
 which is that Maharishi is an extraordinarily
 enlightened human being whose
 relative personality is flawed in various ways, as
 reflected in things he
 has said and done over the years. This view is
 invalidated by the belief
 that everyone is perfect just as they are, if you
 choose to look at it that
 way.

Not so much that his personality is flawed, but that
it is exactly what it is. Flawed implies some sort
of standard or basis of evaluation. I don't know what
that would be other than some story I need to tell
myself. But now you can't then take the counter
position and say that his personality is perfect. It
is neither flawed nor perfect. If you drop all stories
you just have pure experience left. And that
experience varies from person to person. For me MMY is
absolute Brahman and that Brahman moves in profoundly
mysterious ways to awaken to itself. All this MMY
nonsense is pure leela. A deliciously mad dish of
perfect Kali devouring your mind. 
-Peter




 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-10 Thread Llundrub 





That hurt. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:29 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 
  Christianity
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
  wrote: C'mon Man. There's not one ten year old on earth that hasn't 
  heard the work fucking, as the word has been in casual usage since 
  at least the thirteenth century Europe. Furthermore, if they haven't heard 
  it or don't know what it is, then my suggestion is they learn something 
  before they get fucked and have kids before their time for lack of 
  knowledge. Or get aids. Education not ostridge nation.The 
  problem is that you ruin the word and its profane power by careless and 
  casual use, rendering it to little more than spit on the 
  sidewalk.Rick 
  CarlstromTo subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-09 Thread Llundrub 





Fucking Awesome. Thank you for 
this.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  TurquoiseB 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:35 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 
  Christianity
  Jim: Absoultely. The judgement of what is best is 
  purely subjective,  whereas the determination of what is purest can be 
  measured by its  effectiveness.  By the way the only 
  time I ever saw a turquoise bee was on the  island of Java. How did 
  you come by the name?It's an admitted ripoff of the nickname of the 
  SixthDalai Lama, Tsangyang Gyatso.The Great Fifth built the Potala 
  and consolidated boththe religious and secular life of Tibet. And 
  then heup and croaked, without really doing what his predecessorshad 
  done and letting his fellow monks know where he was tobe reborn. 
  They actually hid the fact of his death forsome years, while a Regent 
  ruled Tibet, claiming to stillbe speaking with with the now-deceased DL on 
  a daily basis.Then, using the techniques that the Tibtetans have 
  devel-oped, they found the dude. Late. He was already 
  approach-ing puberty, as opposed to the "rule," which was to be 
  discovered when he was much younger. They brought him tothe 
  Potala, he passed all the tests, and they named himDalai Lama.But 
  there was a problem. He refused to take his vows asa monk, and he 
  refused to take himself as seriously asthe monks around him wanted him 
  to. During the day, heruled Tibet as its secular and religious 
  leader. But atnight he would sneak out of the Potala and walk down 
  toShol-town, which was Lhasa's red light district. There,he 
  would drink and carouse with the girls and a few ofhis fellow rebel monks, 
  writing poetry and songs in theprocess.His songs and poetry are 
  still considered among the best that Tibet has ever produced. He 
  called himself, as a poet, the Turquoise Bee. I've pasted in a few 
  of thesongs in below, since you asked, from the late Rick 
  Fields'marvelous book, "The Turquoise Bee."He was so controversial 
  that he was finally murdered. Bythe Chinese, but very possibly with 
  the cooperation of his own fellow monks, for whom he had grown a bit 
  toocontroversial.I stole his name because I like his 
  attitude. 
  :-)Unc**White teeth 
  smilingBrightness of skin.On my seat in the high lama's rowAt the 
  quick edge of my glanceI caught her looking at 
  me.**By drawing diagrams on 
  the groundThe stars of space can be measured.Though familiar with the 
  soft fleshOf my lover's bodyI cannot measure her 
  depths.**If young girls never 
  diedThere would be no need to brew beer.At such a timeThis is a 
  young man's surest source of 
  refuge.**The meeting place for 
  me and my loveIs the dense forest of the southern valley.Except for 
  the chattering parrotNo one knows about it.Please, talkative 
  parrotDon't give away our 
  secret.**People talk about 
  me.What they say may be true.But just three short stepsTake me to 
  the wine house of my 
  lover.**Don't tell 
  me,"Tsangyang! you're depraved."Just like youI desire pleasure and 
  comfort, too.**Meditating, my 
  lama's faceDoes not shine in my mind.Unbidden my lover's faceAgain 
  and again appears.**I sought 
  my lover at twilightSnow fell at daybreak.Residing at the PotalaI 
  am Rigdzin Tsangyang GyatsoBut in the back alleys of Shol-townI am 
  rake and studSecret or notNo matter.Footprints have been left in 
  the snow.To subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-09 Thread MDixon6569 






In a message dated 5/9/05 1:34:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm not 
  sure what time period you are speaking of but most countries were religious 
  entities in the past ,state and church were one. Something that is again 
  being pushed in this country today.

I'm speaking of all times. Even if a Pope commanded some crime 
against humanity it would be far fetched to find a "religious" reason for such a 
crime. The crime would have been for political reasons, not religious reasons. 
Example the inquisitions were strictly for political purposes cloaked in 
religion. It wasn't the religion that condoned such events , but the politics of 
leaders within that religion. Same with the Crusades, it was all politics not 
the religion yet cloaked in religious overtone to make it "ok" so to speak.  
As for an official church or state religion for the United States, it has 
never existed nor has it ever been pushed for at any time to my knowledge. 
That does not mean the people are not free to elect representatives that will 
pass laws that favor their moral views nor does it mean an elected official can 
not openly practice his/her religion while in 
office.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-09 Thread Llundrub 





C'mon Man. There's not one ten year 
old on earth that hasn't heard the work fucking, as the word has been in 
casual usage since at least the thirteenth century Europe. Furthermore, if they 
haven't heard it or don't know what it is, then my suggestion is they learn 
something before they get fucked and have kids before their time for lack of 
knowledge. Or get aids. Education not ostridge nation.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  off_world_beings 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:59 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 
  Christianity
  Hi, I'm a 10 year old girl reading this board. What does 
  "f##king mean Llundrub?--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
  wrote: Fucking Awesome. Thank you for this. 
  - Original Message -  From: TurquoiseB 
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:35 PM 
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity  
   Jim:  Absoultely. The judgement 
  of what is best is purely subjective,   whereas 
  the determination of what is purest can be measured by its 
effectiveness.  
By the way the only time I ever saw a turquoise bee 
  was on the   island of Java. How did you come by the 
  name?  It's an admitted ripoff of the nickname of 
  the Sixth Dalai Lama, Tsangyang Gyatso. 
   The Great Fifth built the Potala and consolidated 
  both the religious and secular life of Tibet. And 
  then he up and croaked, without really doing what his 
  predecessors had done and letting his fellow monks know 
  where he was to be reborn. They actually hid the 
  fact of his death for some years, while a Regent ruled 
  Tibet, claiming to still be speaking with with the 
  now-deceased DL on a daily basis.  Then, using the 
  techniques that the Tibtetans have devel- oped, they found 
  the dude. Late. He was already approach- ing 
  puberty, as opposed to the "rule," which was to be  
  discovered when he was much younger. They brought him 
  to the Potala, he passed all the tests, and they named 
  him Dalai Lama.  But there was 
  a problem. He refused to take his vows as a monk, 
  and he refused to take himself as seriously as the monks 
  around him wanted him to. During the day, he ruled 
  Tibet as its secular and religious leader. But at 
  night he would sneak out of the Potala and walk down to 
  Shol-town, which was Lhasa's red light district. 
  There, he would drink and carouse with the girls and a few 
  of his fellow rebel monks, writing poetry and songs in 
  the process.  His songs and 
  poetry are still considered among the best  that Tibet has 
  ever produced. He called himself, as a  poet, the 
  Turquoise Bee. I've pasted in a few of the songs in 
  below, since you asked, from the late Rick Fields' 
  marvelous book, "The Turquoise Bee."  He was so 
  controversial that he was finally murdered. By the 
  Chinese, but very possibly with the cooperation of  his 
  own fellow monks, for whom he had grown a bit too 
  controversial.  I stole his name because I like 
  his attitude. :-)  Unc 
   ** 
   White teeth smiling Brightness of 
  skin. On my seat in the high lama's 
  row At the quick edge of my glance I 
  caught her looking at me.  
  **  By drawing 
  diagrams on the ground The stars of space can be 
  measured. Though familiar with the soft 
  flesh Of my lover's body I cannot 
  measure her depths.  
  **  If young girls 
  never died There would be no need to brew 
  beer. At such a time This is a young 
  man's surest source of refuge.  
  **  The meeting 
  place for me and my love Is the dense forest of the 
  southern valley. Except for the chattering 
  parrot No one knows about it. Please, 
  talkative parrot Don't give away our secret. 
   ** 
   People talk about me. What they say 
  may be true. But just three short 
  steps Take me to the wine house of my lover. 
   ** 
   Don't tell me, "Tsangyang! you're 
  depraved." Just like you I desire 
  pleasure and comfort, too.  
  **  Meditating, my 
  lama's face Does not shine in my mind. 
  Unbidden my lover's face Again and again appears. 
   ** 
   I sought my lover at twilight Snow 
  fell at daybreak. Residing at the 
  Potala I am Rigdzin Tsangyang Gyatso 
  But in the back alleys of Shol-town I am rake and 
  stud Secret or not No 
  matter. Footprints have been left in the snow. 
To 
  subscribe, send a message to: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Or go to: 
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ 
  and click 'Join This Group!' 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-09 Thread MDixon6569 






In a message dated 5/9/05 3:12:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't 
  think the problem is with TM or Christianity per se. I think it's 
  with the state of mind that believes that it is "the 
best."

Bingo!


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Christianity

2005-05-09 Thread George DeForest 
.

 TurquoiseB wrote:
 
 ...an admitted ripoff of the nickname
 of the Sixth Dalai Lama, Tsangyang Gyatso...

 His songs and poetry are still considered
 among the best that Tibet has ever produced. 
 He called himself, as a poet, the Turquoise Bee.

 I am rake and stud
  Secret or not
  No matter.
  Footprints have been left in the snow.

awesome!
thanks, barry

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