Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Valent Turkovic wrote: Máirín Duffy wrote: Hi Valent, Valent Turkovic wrote: Máirín Duffy wrote: Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m I don't like opensuse in particular but they have made a break from blue in latest release - now its green, and it looks great! I would love to see Fedora !blue for at least one release - it would be refreshing. Everyone has their own personal tastes and opinions on the artwork. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those folks actually contribute to the artwork. If you would like to truly influence the artwork though, you will need to take a more active, participatory role on the art team. It have the ability to bring some really talented people to fedora and they will contribute, but they use proprietary tools (photoshop and the like). Is that forbidden to use non OSS apps in making fedora themes? I heard that before in some post but I wasn't sure so please clarify. I think Nicu or someone else has already answered this by now, but - We would prefer artwork to be created using the free and open source tools which are in many cases installable on most operating systems besides Fedora. There is no hard rule saying they must, though, although we have faced great criticism from within and from outside of the Fedora community for older Fedora versions featuring artwork that was not created using FOSS tools. My preference would be for the artwork to be created in FOSS tools since the learning curve is not that high and the tools are free and embody all the principles that Fedora is about. There is really no excuse. That doesn't really have much to do with what we were talking about, though. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Martin Sourada wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:49 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: Steven Garrity wrote: Please look these two screenshots: http://bayimg.com/MAIAIaaBLhttp://bayimg.com/MAiagaABL One is FC6 and other is F8. Can you make the difference. The differences are subtle, too subtle and too bland IMHO. I would love to see Fedora 9 get the gtk theme it deserves. So slowing down design really sound bad to me. Valent. I saw these two quite long quite a long ago and you were told, that the difference is obvious, though subtle. As for the Fedora 9 gtk theme. So far this [1] seems what will be in Fedora 9, although there is still room for improvement. But why don't you come up with something awesome yourself? We are all doing our best while you seem to just rant about how things would be better. Because I have no actual creative talent but as I said in my email I have an critic eye and I have been volonteering as a critic for my friends and family for over 10 years - they are photographers, designers, 3d modelers and artists and I'm really respected for my constructive criticism. I can't create a new gtk theme but I can say to you if one sucks or or if it rocks. You can look for yourself for some ideas: http://browse.deviantart.com/customization/skins/linuxutil/gnome/gtk2/?order=9alltime=yes http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xsortmode=downpage=0xcontentmode=100 There are lots of great themes. I don't work for fedora ArtTeam but I'm a long time fedora desktop user and I would love to see some improvements in how fedora looks. I know that lot of people work hard and I really appreciate it, and I have seen what great designs they have done ( ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Máirín Duffy wrote: Hi Valent, Valent Turkovic wrote: Máirín Duffy wrote: Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m I don't like opensuse in particular but they have made a break from blue in latest release - now its green, and it looks great! I would love to see Fedora !blue for at least one release - it would be refreshing. Everyone has their own personal tastes and opinions on the artwork. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those folks actually contribute to the artwork. If you would like to truly influence the artwork though, you will need to take a more active, participatory role on the art team. It have the ability to bring some really talented people to fedora and they will contribute, but they use proprietary tools (photoshop and the like). Is that forbidden to use non OSS apps in making fedora themes? I heard that before in some post but I wasn't sure so please clarify. This list is, for the most part, for the art team members to coordinate and discuss contributions to the artwork. While we do like hearing feedback from a variety of users, please understand that can cannot please everyone nor should it be expected that we cater to any particular piece of feedback we receive. In the past we have been asked to try colors other than blue and were met with a lot of negative feedback. I do not know if it is worth another try. I saw some older posts... I can't believe what people said about purple color. I was also amazed to hear that as did you from what I saw. If you have a particular concept or design that you would like to mock up and share with us that does not use the color blue, I am sure we would all be interested in seeing it, but please do not expect that someone will do it for you just because you mentioned it here. ~m Sure. Thank you. Valent. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Valent Turkovic wrote: It have the ability to bring some really talented people to fedora and they will contribute, but they use proprietary tools (photoshop and the like). Is that forbidden to use non OSS apps in making fedora themes? I heard that before in some post but I wasn't sure so please clarify. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork I don't think it is a rule but using the tools within Fedora is definitely strongly encouraged. Rahul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 10:11 +0100, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 2008/1/9, Luya Tshimbalanga [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Valent Turkovic a écrit : I know that lot of things you can't change because Gnome is responsible for that. Nobody has touched gnome panels design wise since FC1, maybe I'm overstating it but it looks like that to me. New theme isn't needed just in present one do something with gnome panels. Why are gnome panels so plain? You mean Fedora 3 because the previous version only has one bottom panel. The difficulty is also to consider usability when it comes to artwork. Luya ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list GNOME is very usable, but two panels can be confusing solution. Next thing I don't like is the default menu in the top panel. This menu have no favourites. I dislike it. Actually I find 2 panels to be much better than one. The favourites are handled in the bottom panel (by hand, as I am the one who knows best what I'd like to have accessible via one-click) as well as some applets like volume setting, trash, log out, lock screen, run, notify area and virtual desktop switcher... In the top one I have menu, window list and some applets that say whats going on (i.e. how much network traffic I have, how much CPU is used and what datum and time is it). I find it very convenient, easy to manage and fast to use, much better than only when panel setting - to me it seems one panel for all the things I'd like to have accessible on one click is not very useful... (as a matter of fact, when I occasionally use windows I find the one panel with start menu quite confusing and shortcoming of space). But what I want to say with it, the default configuration is chosen to fit most of the gnome users, but not everyone use it as is, but make their own layout, but still I think two panels have much more positives than negatives over one panel. Also having the menu on the top is nice, since application menus are on the top of window as well, so it is more logical. Just my 2$. Btw. if you'd like the default panel configuration changed, make your proposal on the fedora-desktop-list [1], I am sure they'll gladly discuss it with you. Martin References: [1] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list [2] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/panels.png - what panel layout I find to work the best for me signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
2008/1/10, Martin Sourada [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 10:11 +0100, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 2008/1/9, Luya Tshimbalanga [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Valent Turkovic a écrit : I know that lot of things you can't change because Gnome is responsible for that. Nobody has touched gnome panels design wise since FC1, maybe I'm overstating it but it looks like that to me. New theme isn't needed just in present one do something with gnome panels. Why are gnome panels so plain? You mean Fedora 3 because the previous version only has one bottom panel. The difficulty is also to consider usability when it comes to artwork. Luya ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list GNOME is very usable, but two panels can be confusing solution. Next thing I don't like is the default menu in the top panel. This menu have no favourites. I dislike it. Actually I find 2 panels to be much better than one. The favourites are handled in the bottom panel (by hand, as I am the one who knows best what I'd like to have accessible via one-click) as well as some applets like volume setting, trash, log out, lock screen, run, notify area and virtual desktop switcher... In the top one I have menu, window list and some applets that say whats going on (i.e. how much network traffic I have, how much CPU is used and what datum and time is it). I find it very convenient, easy to manage and fast to use, much better than only when panel setting - to me it seems one panel for all the things I'd like to have accessible on one click is not very useful... (as a matter of fact, when I occasionally use windows I find the one panel with start menu quite confusing and shortcoming of space). But what I want to say with it, the default configuration is chosen to fit most of the gnome users, but not everyone use it as is, but make their own layout, but still I think two panels have much more positives than negatives over one panel. Also having the menu on the top is nice, since application menus are on the top of window as well, so it is more logical. Just my 2$. Btw. if you'd like the default panel configuration changed, make your proposal on the fedora-desktop-list [1], I am sure they'll gladly discuss it with you. Martin References: [1] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list [2] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/panels.png - what panel layout I find to work the best for me ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list I dislike favourites etc in panels/dock. I even hate it. Menu with favourites is better idea imo. -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 15:38 +0100, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: I dislike favourites etc in panels/dock. I even hate it. Menu with favourites is better idea imo. And what I hate is having a favourites menu which is constantly changing its contents. As for having a favourites menu, I am sure it's not such a hard task to make it. I just tried it and it's quite easy, though it might be even easier. Just right-click on the menu and select edit, I am sure you'll think up the rest (hint: drag'n'drop between menus, and the 'create new menu' might help a bit ;) See what I just made (in a few minutes, without any previous knowledge about menu editing) [1]. -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ Martin References [1] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/menu-favourites.png signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
John Baer wrote: All, IMO the F8 artwork presents Fedora very favorably and it seems a waste not to leverage this success in F9. Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? What do you actually mean when you say theme ? Presenting the same question a differ way. Would Fedora users be disappointed if the F9 came with an improved F8 theme (ie. same theme, new wallpaper)? Bring back FC6 wallpaper if you are recycling :) Valent. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Steven Garrity wrote: John Baer wrote: Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? This is a good point - it would be nice to see a somewhat common theme getting more and more polished with each release. More of an evolution than a complete redesign each time. That said, the last few themes have been a bit like this. Things that are easier to change, like the splash screens and wallpaper can change more frequently and dramatically. Things that are more challenging to redesign well, like Gtk and Metacity themes evolve more slowly. This reminds me of the 6 layers of buildings from Stewart Brand's classic book, How Buildings Learn: http://www.peterme.com/archives/0323.html I would like to see a general visual theme for Fedora that can slowly evolve and improve with each release, but still have enough wiggle-room for each release to feel new and exciting. I proposed a seasonal Spring/Fall theme set to coincide with the time-based release schedule of Fedora back in November. I've been trying to create a page for it on the wiki, but I'm having trouble getting my account created (probably my own fault). Quoting myself: As the Fedora release schedule is now about as reliable as the coming of spring and fall, it occurred to me that spring and fall might serve as appropriate visual themes for alternating releases. Both spring and fall (aka autumn) are nice natural visual metaphors that have recognizable and (potentially) beautiful color schemes associated with them. They are also both natural themes, which can work well for desktop themes. Perhaps we could adopt a spring visual theme for the odd-numbered releases that fall in the spring, and a fall visual theme for the even-numbered releases that fall in the, well, fall. This would also provide a way to have a strong visual change between releases, but still build on a larger theme that could grow more refined over multiple releases. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-November/msg00099.html A theme like this would allow a common thread for all Fedora release visuals, but also a nice back-and-forth change for each release. This sounds like a great idea. Can Fedora change colour palette? Sorry for my lack of knowledge if RedHat or Fedora board have forbidden using other colors but blue-gray and the palette around those colors. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Exactly. Fedora should make some revolution, as it's one the most modern distros (openSUSE provides nice GUI improvements, but below GUI, they really suck). openSUSE shows nice artwork progress - every version has new nice art, exactly like Fedora does. We made big improvment from FC5 until F8. We can't waste our current opinion (about art). 2008/1/9, Martin Sourada [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:49 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: Steven Garrity wrote: Please look these two screenshots: http://bayimg.com/MAIAIaaBL http://bayimg.com/MAiagaABL One is FC6 and other is F8. Can you make the difference. The differences are subtle, too subtle and too bland IMHO. I would love to see Fedora 9 get the gtk theme it deserves. So slowing down design really sound bad to me. Valent. I saw these two quite long quite a long ago and you were told, that the difference is obvious, though subtle. As for the Fedora 9 gtk theme. So far this [1] seems what will be in Fedora 9, although there is still room for improvement. But why don't you come up with something awesome yourself? We are all doing our best while you seem to just rant about how things would be better. Thanks, Martin References: [1] https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/Screenshots ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Martin Sourada wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:49 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: Steven Garrity wrote: Please look these two screenshots: http://bayimg.com/MAIAIaaBL http://bayimg.com/MAiagaABL One is FC6 and other is F8. Can you make the difference. The differences are subtle, too subtle and too bland IMHO. I would love to see Fedora 9 get the gtk theme it deserves. So slowing down design really sound bad to me. Valent. I saw these two quite long quite a long ago and you were told, that the difference is obvious, though subtle. As for the Fedora 9 gtk theme. So far this [1] seems what will be in Fedora 9, although there is still room for improvement. But why don't you come up with something awesome yourself? We are all doing our best while you seem to just rant about how things would be better. Because I have no actual creative talent but as I said in my email I have an critic eye and I have been volunteering as a critic for my friends and family for over 15 years - they are photographers, designers, 3d modelers and artists and I'm really respected for my constructive criticism. I can't create a new gtk theme but I can say to you if one sucks or or if it rocks. You can look for yourself for some ideas: http://browse.deviantart.com/customization/skins/linuxutil/gnome/gtk2/?order=9alltime=yes http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xsortmode=downpage=0xcontentmode=100 There are lots of great themes and designs. I don't work for fedora ArtTeam but I'm a long time fedora desktop user and I would love to see some improvements in how fedora looks. I know that lot of people work hard and I really appreciate it, and I have seen what great designs they have done (except F8 IMHO). If you look at other other desktops - they are moving forward (look at OSX, Vista and some of other linux distros) and I as Fedora user feel stuck in design past :) I know that lot of things you can't change because Gnome is responsible for that. Nobody has touched gnome panels design wise since FC1, maybe I'm overstating it but it looks like that to me. New theme isn't needed just in present one do something with gnome panels. Why are gnome panels so plain? So what can I do except to rant? Do you have some idea how else I can contribute? Because this is the best I can do (ps. I also contribute in reporting all the bugs I find to bugzilla). Valent. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Wednesday 09 January 2008 21:01:56 Martin Sourada wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:49 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: Steven Garrity wrote: Please look these two screenshots: http://bayimg.com/MAIAIaaBL http://bayimg.com/MAiagaABL One is FC6 and other is F8. Can you make the difference. The differences are subtle, too subtle and too bland IMHO. I would love to see Fedora 9 get the gtk theme it deserves. So slowing down design really sound bad to me. Valent. I saw these two quite long quite a long ago and you were told, that the difference is obvious, though subtle. As for the Fedora 9 gtk theme. So far this [1] seems what will be in Fedora 9, although there is still room for improvement. But why don't you come up with something awesome yourself? We are all doing our best while you seem to just rant about how things would be better. Cool, I like what we have now, I think that a rounded aqua would be awesome :) Thanks, Martin References: [1] https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/Screenshots -- Laith Juwaidah http://www.ljuwaidah.org/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: Fedora shouldn't change main color! It should only push some freshness and live to the Linux desktop. But fresh is a new colour :) Come on you burned blue colour from all your monitors that if one more blue theme comes out it will look washed ot because the blue fosfor in monitors is burned out :) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:59 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: Máirín Duffy wrote: Laith Juwaidah wrote: Perhaps we could adopt a spring visual theme for the odd-numbered releases that fall in the spring, and a fall visual theme for the even-numbered releases that fall in the, well, fall. Could it also be that the colors match the season (green for spring releases and yellow/orange for fall ones?)? Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m I don't like opensuse in particular but they have made a break from blue in latest release - now its green, and it looks great! I would love to see Fedora !blue for at least one release - it would be refreshing. And confusing. Everyone in the linux world has Fedora associated with blue colour. If we changed that there would surely be much more people complaining than accepting the change. I believe everyone had opensuse asociated with green already, so if they had blue themes before, it was only a logical step to make it green, IMO. Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Máirín Duffy wrote: Laith Juwaidah wrote: Perhaps we could adopt a spring visual theme for the odd-numbered releases that fall in the spring, and a fall visual theme for the even-numbered releases that fall in the, well, fall. Could it also be that the colors match the season (green for spring releases and yellow/orange for fall ones?)? Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m I don't like opensuse in particular but they have made a break from blue in latest release - now its green, and it looks great! I would love to see Fedora !blue for at least one release - it would be refreshing. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 18:22 +0100, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: How do I did it? I just used quick reply in Gmail. You write your answer above the quotation. It's much easier to follow if you can read first what you are answering to and after that the answer. Especially on the mail lists it's helpful, so that people don't get easily lost in the thread. http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html Thanks, Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Hi Valent, Valent Turkovic wrote: Máirín Duffy wrote: Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m I don't like opensuse in particular but they have made a break from blue in latest release - now its green, and it looks great! I would love to see Fedora !blue for at least one release - it would be refreshing. Everyone has their own personal tastes and opinions on the artwork. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those folks actually contribute to the artwork. If you would like to truly influence the artwork though, you will need to take a more active, participatory role on the art team. This list is, for the most part, for the art team members to coordinate and discuss contributions to the artwork. While we do like hearing feedback from a variety of users, please understand that can cannot please everyone nor should it be expected that we cater to any particular piece of feedback we receive. In the past we have been asked to try colors other than blue and were met with a lot of negative feedback. I do not know if it is worth another try. If you have a particular concept or design that you would like to mock up and share with us that does not use the color blue, I am sure we would all be interested in seeing it, but please do not expect that someone will do it for you just because you mentioned it here. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
2008/1/9, Michael Beckwith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sticking with blues is what they call brand recognition and brand association. Yeah, some companies go through the trouble of changing their entire color scheme, but when they do they span across absolutely everything, not just some aspects. Valent Turkovic wrote: Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: Fedora shouldn't change main color! It should only push some freshness and live to the Linux desktop. But fresh is a new colour :) Come on you burned blue colour from all your monitors that if one more blue theme comes out it will look washed ot because the blue fosfor in monitors is burned out :) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://michaelbox.net (eventually) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list If Fedora would change the logo (I even haven't thinked about it), then it should change the colors. Otherwise - colors shouldn't be touched. -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
John Baer wrote: IMO the F8 artwork presents Fedora very favorably and it seems a waste not to leverage this success in F9. Duh! and we have another parallel thread about how F8 was the worst :D Talk about artistic subjectivity... Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? Presenting the same question a differ way. Would Fedora users be disappointed if the F9 came with an improved F8 theme (ie. same theme, new wallpaper)? My personal and unscientific guess: more will be disappointed than happy. But I propose you this approach: make an improved Infinity and run it through the normal 3 rounds process so we can see if the general feedback is positive. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Jan 1, 2008 6:13 PM, Daniel Geiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe it would be beneficial to Fedora to stabilize the artwork in successive releases. IMO, radically changing the artwork each release detracts from giving Fedora a recognizable look and feel. I think having a distinguishing desktop background by default for each release is important. So that its easier to tell at a glance which release, and thus which set of technologies are present. If we don't make destinctive visual changes, then its more likely that less familiar users will run across screenshots and screencasts that don't apply to the release they are actually using because the underlying functionality being expressed in the screen capture has changed. The rest of the graphics (except maybe splash screens) I would agree deserve refinement because they serve a more functional role. Users interact with window borders and buttons and icons and whatnot. But the desktop background itself is purely expressive. I think it must change significantly from release to release so that we avoid a measure of confusion over out-of-the-box expectations for the evolving desktop experience. I don't want people googling and finding a screencast on how to use NetworkManager in F8 and assume its a screencast done on F9 because the most distinctive visual element, the desktop background is too similar. -jef ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
2008/1/3, Jeff Spaleta [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The rest of the graphics (except maybe splash screens) I would agree deserve refinement because they serve a more functional role. Users interact with window borders and buttons and icons and whatnot. But the desktop background itself is purely expressive. No, the background is much more than purely expressive. It constituetes the background for icons placed on the desktop. As such it can provide landmarks for finding a certain icon. As many users use the desktop for storing files files it is also of utter importance that it is not too conspicious, so that it disturbs the user. In essence it should be there but not be noticed all that much. E.g it can be a good idea to avoid figurative images. It is also important to make the smallest detail in the image much larger than the icon size, or it could make it harder for visually impaired people to differentiate between the background and icon contours. i.e. it acts like camoflage. Some kind of easy identifyable subtle pattern is good especially if it is a bit unsymetric an unrepeated. That way it provides good landmarks to help the user remember how his icons are placed. Regards Uno Engborg ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
A Thought About F9 Artwork
All, IMO the F8 artwork presents Fedora very favorably and it seems a waste not to leverage this success in F9. Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? Presenting the same question a differ way. Would Fedora users be disappointed if the F9 came with an improved F8 theme (ie. same theme, new wallpaper)? Cheers! John ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Steven Garrity wrote: I proposed a seasonal Spring/Fall theme set to coincide with the time-based release schedule of Fedora back in November. I've been trying to create a page for it on the wiki, but I'm having trouble getting my account created (probably my own fault). Are you following http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing? What exactly is the problem you are running into? Rahul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Wednesday 02 January 2008 00:06:07 Steven Garrity wrote: John Baer wrote: Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? This is a good point - it would be nice to see a somewhat common theme getting more and more polished with each release. More of an evolution than a complete redesign each time. That said, the last few themes have been a bit like this. Things that are easier to change, like the splash screens and wallpaper can change more frequently and dramatically. Things that are more challenging to redesign well, like Gtk and Metacity themes evolve more slowly. This reminds me of the 6 layers of buildings from Stewart Brand's classic book, How Buildings Learn: http://www.peterme.com/archives/0323.html I would like to see a general visual theme for Fedora that can slowly evolve and improve with each release, but still have enough wiggle-room for each release to feel new and exciting. I proposed a seasonal Spring/Fall theme set to coincide with the time-based release schedule of Fedora back in November. I've been trying to create a page for it on the wiki, but I'm having trouble getting my account created (probably my own fault). Quoting myself: As the Fedora release schedule is now about as reliable as the coming of spring and fall, it occurred to me that spring and fall might serve as appropriate visual themes for alternating releases. Both spring and fall (aka autumn) are nice natural visual metaphors that have recognizable and (potentially) beautiful color schemes associated with them. They are also both natural themes, which can work well for desktop themes. Perhaps we could adopt a spring visual theme for the odd-numbered releases that fall in the spring, and a fall visual theme for the even-numbered releases that fall in the, well, fall. Could it also be that the colors match the season (green for spring releases and yellow/orange for fall ones?)? This would also provide a way to have a strong visual change between releases, but still build on a larger theme that could grow more refined over multiple releases. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-November/msg00099.html A theme like this would allow a common thread for all Fedora release visuals, but also a nice back-and-forth change for each release. Cheers, Steven Garrity ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Laith Juwaidah http://www.ljuwaidah.org/ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
Laith Juwaidah wrote: Perhaps we could adopt a spring visual theme for the odd-numbered releases that fall in the spring, and a fall visual theme for the even-numbered releases that fall in the, well, fall. Could it also be that the colors match the season (green for spring releases and yellow/orange for fall ones?)? Whenever we try anything that is !blue, we get a whole lot of negative feedback. People like to look at the colors far more symbolically than they should I think. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
I believe it would be beneficial to Fedora to stabilize the artwork in successive releases. IMO, radically changing the artwork each release detracts from giving Fedora a recognizable look and feel. I am for refining and improving the artwork, though--maybe in the degree to which Ubuntu refines their backgrounds. As someone else said, I also believe that the artwork of F8 is a good release to build upon for refinements. A question of clarification: what exactly is meant here by theme -- GTK+/Metacity, icons, artwork, or something else? ~Daniel John Baer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All, IMO the F8 artwork presents Fedora very favorably and it seems a waste not to leverage this success in F9. Does it make sense to change the theme every other release cycle and use the off cycle to improve or tweak the current theme? Presenting the same question a differ way. Would Fedora users be disappointed if the F9 came with an improved F8 theme (ie. same theme, new wallpaper)? Cheers! John ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
New themes, that are relatively radically different, I tend to think ARE Fedora's recognizable look. Something new and well done to greet you with each release. No you can't satisfy everyone, but that should be expected. Just look at modern art for an example of that. Daniel Geiger wrote: I believe it would be beneficial to Fedora to stabilize the artwork in successive releases. IMO, radically changing the artwork each release detracts from giving Fedora a recognizable look and feel. I am for refining and improving the artwork, though--maybe in the degree to which Ubuntu refines their backgrounds. As someone else said, I also believe that the artwork of F8 is a good release to build upon for refinements. A question of clarification: what exactly is meant here by theme -- GTK+/Metacity, icons, artwork, or something else? ~Daniel *//* Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://michaelbox.net (eventually) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A Thought About F9 Artwork
On Jan 1, 2008 9:40 PM, Michael Beckwith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New themes, that are relatively radically different, I tend to think ARE Fedora's recognizable look. Something new and well done to greet you with each release. No you can't satisfy everyone, but that should be expected. Just look at modern art for an example of that. I agree and being bold and innovative in artwork is in harmony with Fedora's emphasis on innovation under the covers too. John ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
