Fedora 8 and 9 updates status
As you well know, we have been working hard to get updates for 8 and 9 flowing again, complete with new package signing keys. Discussion has been somewhat quiet on this front as we've all had our heads down and have been working hard toward a solution, one that involves little to no manual effort on behalf of our users. Today we've reached a major milestone in this progress. We have done a successful compose of all the existing and as of yesterday pending updates for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, all signed with our new keys. These updates will soon hit mirrors in a new set of directory locations. What we don't have quite yet is the updated fedora-release package in the old updates location that will get you the new keys and the new repo locations. The last mile testing of this update requires that new updates be live on the mirrors. Due to the size of the resigned updates, it may take a good while for our sync process. This may delay getting the new fedora-release out until tomorrow, but we'll be working hard on it. While we're working on this update, we'll also be drafting a FAQ page to explain to users what it is that we're doing, and hopefully answer some of the questions that will come up. This document will be living though, and as you encounter questions yourself, or questions via one of our many avenues of support (email, IRC, forums, LUGS, etc..) please help us in growing that document. Announcements regarding the location of said document and how to help with content will be coming shortly. We deeply appreciate the enormous magnitude of patience you the greater community has shown us the Fedora project as we work though these serious issues. It is a great testament to how wonderful it is to work in and with the Fedora community. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-announce-list mailing list fedora-announce-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list
Re: Good news about Echo
Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Fesco has accepted echo-icon-theme as default icon theme for Fedora 10.[1] Which means we need to push harder to include as many icons as possible using guideline and echo-artist tool now available on rawhide and is waiting for people to get them on both Fedora 8 and 9[2]. To get more details about echo-icon-theme, please visit the website[3]. Good move. Was comps.xml updated to reflect the new default in rawhide? Any communication with the desktop and kde teams? Rahul ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Good news about Echo
Rahul Sundaram a écrit : Good move. Was comps.xml updated to reflect the new default in rawhide? Any communication with the desktop and kde teams? Not yet. I got the news recently and need to contact both team. Luya ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Good news about Echo
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:47 -0400, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Fesco has accepted echo-icon-theme as default icon theme for Fedora 10.[1] Which means we need to push harder to include as many icons as possible using guideline and echo-artist tool now available on rawhide and is waiting for people to get them on both Fedora 8 and 9[2]. To get more details about echo-icon-theme, please visit the website[3]. References: --- [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/FeatureList [2] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/echo-artist [3] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme Just a note that Fesco (and many art team members as well) has some concerns about coverage. Simply said if we don't achieve the Mist/gnome icon themes coverage, we'll be rolled back to Mist and wait for another release. Is there anyone interested in doing diff - i.e. what needs to be done there? Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:48 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Using echo-canvas template, here is icon set of utilities-lvm. It is basically an updated version of upstream with echo-style. Feedback welcome. Luya Few comments: * to me it seems too tall, perhaps it would look more like rotational cylinder if it were a little shorter * it's missing shadow * the 16x16 is not recognizable * can you use dark blue for the out-most border? * can you make the 256x256 more detailed and set borders as per the new guideline [1]? I'd separate the volumes completely in this size * perhaps using different colours for each particular volume might help with icon recognition * also the gradient could perhaps use more than one echo blues? (it would make the icon more saturated, not sure if it's desired, we'd need to try it first) Not sure whether you have filled a bug in redhat bugzilla, but seems the desktop file contains full path to the icon, it's impossible to theme it. You should file it and add a note at fedora wiki [2]. I noticed you used transform matrix for the icons. Since I use transform translate in the scripts to generate the scalable SVG, I'm not sure if it will work correctly. I'll try it and report back if there are any issues with it. Thanks, Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 11:00 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote: Few comments: * to me it seems too tall, perhaps it would look more like rotational cylinder if it were a little shorter * it's missing shadow * the 16x16 is not recognizable * can you use dark blue for the out-most border? * can you make the 256x256 more detailed and set borders as per the new guideline [1]? I'd separate the volumes completely in this size * perhaps using different colours for each particular volume might help with icon recognition * also the gradient could perhaps use more than one echo blues? (it would make the icon more saturated, not sure if it's desired, we'd need to try it first) Not sure whether you have filled a bug in redhat bugzilla, but seems the desktop file contains full path to the icon, it's impossible to theme it. You should file it and add a note at fedora wiki [2]. I noticed you used transform matrix for the icons. Since I use transform translate in the scripts to generate the scalable SVG, I'm not sure if it will work correctly. I'll try it and report back if there are any issues with it. Thanks, Martin err... hit send too early... References: [1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/Guidelines#Huge [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/Icons/Names/SystemAdministration signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
R: Re: Photo for InvinXble
Hi Pavel, I thanks a lot for ur invitation, but right now I'm very busy on work, and I'ven't got so many time to enjoy another (parallels) project. Anyway Thanks again. Samuele - Messaggio originale - Da: Pavel Shevchuk [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers. fedora-art-list@redhat.com Inviato: Giovedì, 4 settembre 2008 20:22:33 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam/Berlino/Berna/Roma/Stoccolma/Vienna Oggetto: Re: Photo for InvinXble 2008/9/4 Martin Sourada [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview Not sure however, how much up-to-date it is... I just noticed KDE section is outdated. New KSplash engine in KDE4 is very flexible, with alpha blended PNG sprite animation (i did fade-in+slide-in icons for f9) so only thing that can't be done is alpha blending with desktop background (not even rounded corners possible) For KDM we (KDE SIG) would like to have userlist enabled by default, so even having pretty nice layouting abilities for graphics, widget layout can't be changed much. As i mentioned already, you're very welcome to #fedora-kde, we will appreciate that =) -- http://scwlab.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:48 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Using echo-canvas template, here is icon set of utilities-lvm. It is basically an updated version of upstream with echo-style. Feedback welcome. Luya Ok, found some issues with echo-add-icon: * You need to add context (in this case app) to document properties in document metadata (this would have been done automatically if you had created the icon using echo-new-icon). * It seems you use older version of the template, so you should rename the Artwork layer to artwork layer * You need make a group of the objects for 48x48 icon first and then lable the group as scalable After fixing these issues, generating everything (even the SVG I had some concerns about) works fine. If you have questions, just ask. Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 03:01 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Martin Sourada a écrit : Ok, found some issues with echo-add-icon: * You need to add context (in this case app) to document properties in document metadata (this would have been done automatically if you had created the icon using echo-new-icon). * It seems you use older version of the template, so you should rename the Artwork layer to artwork layer * You need make a group of the objects for 48x48 icon first and then lable the group as scalable After fixing these issues, generating everything (even the SVG I had some concerns about) works fine. If you have questions, just ask. It looks time to improve the scripts. Not sure about that - the context in metadata is necessary, so that the script knows where to put the icon - having 48x84 icon labelled as scalable is necessary for the script to know which objects to keep and which to delete when generating the scalable SVG. I have updated utilities-lvm icon set. Let me know what can be tweaked. The context in metadata is in description not in identifier (jimmac's decision). The label for 48x48 is scalable not #scalable. Luya I'll create explanatory screen-casts soonish (hopefully today). Btw. the only one thing you could mess up if you create the icon using echo-new-icon is the scalable icon label - the rest is checked (i.e. you cannot enter wrong or none context). Well, you could make a typo in the icon name, but that cannot be checked by the scripts :-D I attach fixed (for the one canvas workflow scripts) version. The concerns I had about the icon itself (save for the shadow and tallness) [1] still stand. The darker blue you used is better, but still not perfect - it should contrast with the icon in 48x48 and smaller sizes and thus making it better recognisable against various backgrounds (e.g. the 22x22 or 16x16 is really hard to recognise) and in echo it should be generally darker than the icon fills. Martin References: [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-September/msg00035.html attachment: utilities-lvm.svg signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Solar round3 first step
Hi Guys! Now I've uploaded on the wiki the widescreen background with different looks based on daytime. These are the final version of the background, no more changin'. Same as usual u can find they here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar After i will try to create something for the Anaconda boot. ciao Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar round3 first step
+1 In fact, I have to confess that I already was using the wallpaper that you put into the round 3. :D I download a few days ago the .xfc and delete all the moons and supernovas and is something like this. 2008/9/6 Samuele Storari [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Guys! Now I've uploaded on the wiki the widescreen background with different looks based on daytime. These are the final version of the background, no more changin'. Same as usual u can find they here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar After i will try to create something for the Anaconda boot. ciao Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 Be yourself... Don't be anyone else ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Photo for InvinXble
Samuele Storari wrote: As we said some days ago, now I'got a shoot of the Katana for the InvinXble theme. http://flickr.com/photos/sstorari/2826852493/ Last question: What kind of license I need? I used a CC license, I hope it is the right one. Let me know if I had to make a change. Since the photo is made by you, the license used on Flickr does not matter: you can keep the photo proprietary on Flickr (or not release it anywhere), you are the author so you can dual license it anytime. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
R: Re: Solar round3 first step
So right now, u can use the final version don't u? :D Samuele - Messaggio originale - Da: María Leandro [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers. fedora-art-list@redhat.com Inviato: Venerdì, 5 settembre 2008 15:24:06 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam/Berlino/Berna/Roma/Stoccolma/Vienna Oggetto: Re: Solar round3 first step +1 In fact, I have to confess that I already was using the wallpaper that you put into the round 3. :D I download a few days ago the .xfc and delete all the moons and supernovas and is something like this. 2008/9/6 Samuele Storari [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Guys! Now I've uploaded on the wiki the widescreen background with different looks based on daytime. These are the final version of the background, no more changin'. Same as usual u can find they here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar After i will try to create something for the Anaconda boot. ciao Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 Be yourself... Don't be anyone else ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Using photos rather than art
Bob Peterson wrote: Hi Everyone, Hi Bob, I just wanted to let everyone know that, as promised, I just uploaded a bunch of photos (I think 23) to the wallpaper extras wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/Wallpaper_Extras Your photos are beautiful and I am glad you submitted them, however I have a small complaint: we tried to keep some sanity in wiki attachments and used a naming scheme for the images: Wallpaper-username-imagename.jpg, the file names used by you are all generic (with the potential of creating collisions). -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar round3 first step
What's the Splash graphic for? GNOME doesn't use splash anymore and KDE doesn't support alpha blending with desktop =( On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Samuele Storari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys! Now I've uploaded on the wiki the widescreen background with different looks based on daytime. These are the final version of the background, no more changin'. Same as usual u can find they here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar After i will try to create something for the Anaconda boot. ciao Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- http://scwlab.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
R: Re: Solar round3 first step
It was in the request... so I made it. I think for round 3 we need a really precise format db, with the right size of everything. I'm still workin' on what I suppose we need. A list is not only required, but needed. If someone could make one I will be very thanksfull. Samuele - Messaggio originale - Da: Pavel Shevchuk [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers. fedora-art-list@redhat.com Inviato: Venerdì, 5 settembre 2008 16:35:11 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam/Berlino/Berna/Roma/Stoccolma/Vienna Oggetto: Re: Solar round3 first step What's the Splash graphic for? GNOME doesn't use splash anymore and KDE doesn't support alpha blending with desktop =( On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Samuele Storari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys! Now I've uploaded on the wiki the widescreen background with different looks based on daytime. These are the final version of the background, no more changin'. Same as usual u can find they here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar After i will try to create something for the Anaconda boot. ciao Samuele -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- http://scwlab.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Samuele Storari Art Director Byte-Code srl mobile: +39 347 50 798 32 office: +39 02 9840047 http://www.byte-code.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Solar round3 first step
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 17:35 +0300, Pavel Shevchuk wrote: What's the Splash graphic for? GNOME doesn't use splash anymore and KDE doesn't support alpha blending with desktop =( That's for anaconda, as can be seen in the picture above this one. Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Using photos rather than art
- Nicu Buculei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | a small complaint: we tried to keep some sanity in wiki attachments | and | used a naming scheme for the images: Wallpaper-username-imagename.jpg, | the | file names used by you are all generic (with the potential of | creating | collisions). Hi Nicu, Sorry about that. I'll try to conform from now on. Is there any way I can rename the files out there to match the established convention? Regards, Bob Peterson Red Hat Clustering GFS ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
[Echo] Guidelines change, tutorials update, new screencasts
Hi, I've done some work on Echo wiki today and added Huge size guideline and One Canvas guideline to the Echo Guidelines [1]. Also with the introduction of the new echo-artist scripts, I updated some Echo tutorials [2][3] and created three new screen-casts [4][5][6] showing how to use these tools properly. Comments welcome, Martin PS: I am going to FUDCon tomorrow (Saturday) and since we'll most likely hold a session about Fedora Art with Nicu, it's possible that I mention these changes as well :-) References: [1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/Guidelines [2] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/WorkingWithGit [3] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/AddingNewIconSet [4] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screencasts/echo-set-up.mkv [5] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screencasts/echo-update.mkv [6] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screencasts/echo-add-new-icon.mkv signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Good news about Echo
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 09:35 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: I'm here... So, I think we need to act quickly to make Echo the default for the beta, to test the waters before F10. For Gnome, the way to do that is to change the inheritance of the Fedora icon theme to pull in Echo instead of Mist. Definitely, that would be the preferred way of doing it. Wrt to coverage, I have worked pretty hard this cycle to make Gnome use icon-naming-spec names wherever possible, so things should be good as long as Echo has near-100% coverage for a) icon-naming spec Won't be easy, but we should be able to make it in time... b) GTK+ stock icons Not sure about that, I'll probably need to look into gnome-icon-theme to see which are still missing. c) application icons that show up in the menus of the default install We are currently making icons for the System menus which has currently very bad coverage in all icon themes so far. We should be able to finish the System - Administration menu soon. I can look into doing the fedora-icon-theme change. That would be great! Matthias Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Good news about Echo
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 18:22 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote: On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 09:35 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: I can look into doing the fedora-icon-theme change. That would be great! I've done this now. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 10:24 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Here is fixed icons. Gradient are removed on outline for sightly brighter 48x48 icon and lower. Luya Generally looking good, but still needs improvement: * 16x16 icon is blurry - display rectangular grid (the axonometric grid does not fit with pixel grid) and fix the lines with its help * 256x256 should use thinner borders (1 px), preferably semi-transparent (I tend to set ~30% opacity) and I think it would be better if you separated the volumes there, so you'd have actually three cylinders instead of one Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New preferences-system-bootloader icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 11:27 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: A difficult icon to create. This version is a variant of system-standby iconset. Luya The metaphor might work (as we already discussed on #fedora-art), but I think it should be in apps context which means it needs to have isometric perspective. BTW. Did you start the icon using echo-new-icon to have everything set right? I am (almost) unable to check now if it contains apps in document metadata description since I'm on CentOS and haven't installed inkscape yet. Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New preferences-system-bootloader icon set draft
Martin Sourada a écrit : The metaphor might work (as we already discussed on #fedora-art), but I think it should be in apps context which means it needs to have isometric perspective. Make sense. BTW. Did you start the icon using echo-new-icon to have everything set right? I am (almost) unable to check now if it contains apps in document metadata description since I'm on CentOS and haven't installed inkscape yet. I did. I also added date, creator, keyword. I noticed cc-by-sa-3.0 is set as well, we should consider to do the same with icons that were built with old method. Luya signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 11:51 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Martin Sourada a écrit : Generally looking good, but still needs improvement: * 16x16 icon is blurry - display rectangular grid (the axonometric grid does not fit with pixel grid) and fix the lines with its help Fixed. * 256x256 should use thinner borders (1 px), preferably semi-transparent (I tend to set ~30% opacity) and I think it would be better if you separated the volumes there, so you'd have actually three cylinders instead of one Done. Luya Seems you accidentally attached preferences-system-bootloader instead... Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New utilities-lvm icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 12:16 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Whoops, here is the correct version. Luya Looking good. No further comments. Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] New preferences-system-bootloader icon set draft
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 12:18 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Updated version with axonometric perspective. Luya The shadow is still using the on-the-table perspective. Also it feels a little different than other axonometric icons. Perhaps comparison with some cube-like icon would help to better it. Also, please use linear gradient for the fill with brighter spots at top, the radial gradient with dark spot at top does feel strange. Martin ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Good news about Echo
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 20:21 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:08 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Martin Sourada a écrit : Just a note that Fesco (and many art team members as well) has some concerns about coverage. Simply said if we don't achieve the Mist/gnome icon themes coverage, we'll be rolled back to Mist and wait for another release. Well aware which is why extra manpower is need. Two people for iconset are just not enough. Luya Would be willing to get involved with the icons, but need mentoring as I go along. Frank Great! We'll help you as much as we can. I am going tomorrow to FUDCon and I don't whether I'll be on-line, but starting on Sunday I'll be able to help. Until then you can get familiar with Echo Guidelines [1]. Martin References: [1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/Guidelines ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: R: Re: Solar round3 first step
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Samuele Storari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was in the request... so I made it. I think for round 3 we need a really precise format db, with the right size of everything. I'm still workin' on what I suppose we need. A list is not only required, but needed. I updated technical info on KDE theming in wiki yesterday. GNOME folks could do the same ;) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview#KDE_Artwork -- http://scwlab.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora 10 Art Schedule
Nicu Buculei wrote: We should add somewhere (not sure where, when and how) a decision window about the default icon theme: we have to decide if we go with Echo or stay with Mist. See this: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-August/msg00328.html Has a final date been picked to decide the final theme? If so, what is it? Thanks, john ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
[Bug 461225] New: new kacst fonts release
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: new kacst fonts release https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461225 Summary: new kacst fonts release Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: medium Component: kacst-fonts AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] QAContact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com Estimated Hours: 0.0 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: I noticed by chance on arabeyes.org that there is a new release of KACST fonts. http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2008/July/msg0.html Can we please update our package to include them? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 460090] Check all font files in liberation-fonts for hinting problems.
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=460090 Jens Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Depends on||461223 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461039] liberation-fonts =1.04.2 have problems with some websites
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461039 --- Comment #4 from Pacho Ramos [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 05:57:34 EDT --- Seems that it's only reproducible when using xulrunner-1.8 (I am still using it because of some webpages not being shown properly with xulrunner-1.9) I have merged epiphany against xulrunner-1.9 and seems to work ok (even when old liberation fonts worked with both) Then, Do you think this is a xulrunner problem or a liberation one? Thanks a lot -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461225] new kacst fonts release
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461225 Rahul Bhalerao [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution||RAWHIDE --- Comment #1 from Rahul Bhalerao [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 06:55:02 EDT --- Available in rawhide now, kacst-fonts-2.0-1.fc10. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Issue 43029] support PS-OpenType/OTF/(SFNT with CFF) fonts for PDF export and printing
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=43029 User ousia changed the following: What|Old value |New value OtherIssuesDependingOnTh|16032 |16032,30202 is| | - Please do not reply to this automatically generated notification from Issue Tracker. Please log onto the website and enter your comments. http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html#notification ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 434409] fonttools failed massrebuild attempt for GCC 4.3
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=434409 --- Comment #5 from FTBFS [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 12:11:10 EDT --- This package has Failed to Build From Source for many months. Per http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FTBFS, this package is now proposed for removal from the distribution. Please address this FTBFS bug immediately, or this package will be removed from the distribution within the next few weeks. Thank you for your continued contributions to Fedora, and your commitment to ensuring Fedora packages remain buildable from source code. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461282] New: Liberation font downloads on FedoraHosted produce error 403
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Liberation font downloads on FedoraHosted produce error 403 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461282 Summary: Liberation font downloads on FedoraHosted produce error 403 Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Platform: All URL: https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liberation-fonts / OS/Version: All Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: medium Component: liberation-fonts AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] QAContact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com Estimated Hours: 0.0 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Attempting to download the Liberation fonts from FedoraHosted.org produces a HTTP 403 (Forbidden) error. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Go to the URL linked above. 2. Try to download either format of archive for liberation-fonts-1.03 or liberation-fonts-1.04. Actual results: An HTTP Forbidden error. Expected results: The font archive downloads. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461139] Review Request: arabeyes-core-fonts - Core Arabic fonts from Arabeyes.org
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461139 --- Comment #2 from Nicolas Mailhot [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 13:40:16 EDT --- Hi Subhodip, I'll try to do a full review this week-end. In the meanwhile: 1. Please split your package in two, since you have two different fonts from two different sources. This will provide more user flexibility 2. Please follow the workflow described on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Font_package_lifecycle and in particular create a wiki page per font packages that can be referenced in release notes and other documentation -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461282] Liberation font downloads on FedoraHosted produce error 403
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461282 --- Comment #1 from Cody Boisclair [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 14:02:43 EDT --- Further elaboration: this only applies to the stable versions (1.03 and 1.04); the development version of 1.04.90 downloads OK. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 458430] Review Request: lcdf-typetools - Tools for manipulating OpenType and PostScript fonts
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458430 --- Comment #7 from Patrice Dumas [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 14:26:12 EDT --- (In reply to comment #6) I'll only reply to a questions, I'll change the spec to reflect the other remarks. (In reply to comment #5) Issues: Why disabling the self auto tests? 1) Fedora's TeXLive doesn't use $SELFAUTO* variables in its texmf.cnf. So, to use otftotfm with it, there's no need for otftotfm to check for those. Ah, ok, I had forgotten. A little comment would be nice. The data from that file is used in other programs dealing with Adobe fonts, e.g. freetype and poppler. So, the license is probably okay for Fedora. This is in Spot hands now. Yes the patch is functional but has rough edges w.r.t. documentation and configurablility. I applied it following our discussion on the devel mailing list, so you'd be able to see what I was talking about. Ok. What do texlive people think about this whole issue, and upstream? I did send the t42 patch upstream to Eddie. He had very quick turnaround applying upstream some other patches I've sent him (see the spec Changelog), but for this one I haven't heard back. I'll ping again. Also I don't really understand what otftotfm does with updmap. How do the new map file become known by updamp? Does it add the .map it generates in updmap.cfg (not the t42 map, the regular map)? Yes, it adds a line to the per-user updmap.cfg, which is normally in ~/.texlive2007/texmf-config/web2c. The line it adds makes updmap include ~/.texlive2007/texmf-var/fonts/map/dvips/lcdftools/lcdftools.map, which is entirely maintained by otftotfm. Ok. I think that it is not said clearly enough in the otftotfm, but this is more for upstream. I can certainly disable the patch for now; I would also be more comfortable if upstream applied it because it's a fairly significant new feature. The files (fonts, encodings, maps) that otftotfm installs work however even if you completely remove lcdf-typetools from the system. Lcdf-typetools are only needed during the font installation/conversion; the files produced, even with the t42 add-on patch, do not require anything but bog standard web2c TeX, something that TeXLive more than qualifies for. Indeed, but there is also the additional change in dvips config file that goes side-by-side with the t42 maps. This will certainly be added if the t42 map support goes in, and if reversed because upstream has chosen another way we will be in trouble. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
[Bug 461223] Hinting instructions are cleared after save.
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461223 Kevin Fenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED --- Comment #2 from Kevin Fenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-09-05 16:43:07 EDT --- Additionally, can you see if the latest fontforge in rawhide shows this bug? It was just updated yesterday to a new version. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Fedora-fonts-bugs-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-bugs-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-bugs-list
(no subject)
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Interested in doing some fedora cvs work
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Now that i am in the sysadmin group. I have taken a thorough look at all the other FIGS which are listed. I have also taken a look at the kind of work the people in the FIGS do and i would like to get involved with the cvs group. I have a good amount of technical experience with cvs and svn, so that should not be a barrier. Can Mike, Bill or Dennis, sponsor me to this group please? Thanks a lot. - -- Regards, Huzaifa Sidhpurwala, RHCE, CCNA (IRC: huzaifas) GnuPG Fingerprint: 3A0F DAFB 9279 02ED 273B FFE9 CC70 DCF2 DA5B DAE5 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIwNnkzHDc8tpb2uURApOKAJ95P7ND8Wt68Xm+1FuPd45gIYLT3ACePwEe UotTlcg06khaN2pjWpK/isI= =eHs6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Strange build error for classpathx-mail
Starting looking into updating classpathx-mail to version 1.1.2 (anyone know of a reason not to?). Got a really weird internal compiler error on the ppc64 build: [javac] 1. ERROR in /builddir/build/BUILD/mail-1.1.2/inetlib-1.1.1/source/org/jpackage/mail/inet/imap/IMAPConnection.java (at line 0) [javac] /* [javac] ^ [javac] Internal compiler error [javac] java.lang.NullPointerException [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.looku [javac] p.BinaryTypeBinding.cachePartsFrom(BinaryTypeBinding.java:262) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.lookup.LookupEnvironment.createBinaryTypeFrom(LookupEnvironment.java:719) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.i [javac] nternal.compiler.lookup.LookupEnvironment.createBinaryTypeFrom(LookupEnvironment.java:699) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.Compiler.accept(Compiler.java:294) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.com [javac] piler.lookup.LookupEnvironment.askForType(LookupEnvironment.java:128) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.lookup.PackageBinding.getTypeOrPackage(PackageBinding.java:179) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.inte [javac] rnal.compiler.lookup.CompilationUnitScope.findImport(CompilationUnitScope.java:456) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.lookup.CompilationUnitScope.findSingleImport(CompilationUnitScope.java:510) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.lookup.CompilationUnitScope.faultInImports(CompilationUnitScope.java:359) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.lookup.CompilationUnitScope.faultInTypes(Compi [javac] lationUnitScope.java:435) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.Compiler.process(Compiler.java:736) [javac]at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.compiler.ProcessTaskManager.run(ProcessTaskManager.java:137) [javac]at java.lang.Thread.run(libgcj.so.9) Other arches seemed okay but got cancelled. See: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=809142 This was on ppc7. Resubmitted and it built okay (or at least got past this point). This time on ppc2 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=809169 Fully successful build (if anyone wants to take a look at the package): http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=809200 -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA DivisionFAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
staging environment discussion
So as many of you have seen in the commits lists, the staging environment is coming along and getting built. I've hit a policy issue and so I thought instead of just doing this in a black hole. I'd discuss it. The way I see it there are two ways to do staging environments. For those of you unfamiliar with staging the general idea is to have an environment as close to production as feasible. 1) use identical configs with only minor changes and use /etc/hosts to fake things to point where you need them. Not always possible but generally good where you can do it. 2) use different configs in production and staging. The differences being able to redirect things, using different usernames, passwords, hostnames, etc. Each has pros and cons. Right now I'd like to do 1) but I don't think its possible. 2) is going to require a lot of focus. For example... we won't be able to just git merge from staging to production as we could with 1). Security's only an issue in that we don't want people making changes to production data from staging and vise versa. The same people will have the same access to both of these environments without exception. I'm going to continue to think about this. I've had staging environments in the past. Both went with option 2). But still. I'd like to hold this discussion so discuss. -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: staging environment discussion
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Mike McGrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So as many of you have seen in the commits lists, the staging environment is coming along and getting built. I've hit a policy issue and so I thought instead of just doing this in a black hole. I'd discuss it. The way I see it there are two ways to do staging environments. For those of you unfamiliar with staging the general idea is to have an environment as close to production as feasible. 1) use identical configs with only minor changes and use /etc/hosts to fake things to point where you need them. Not always possible but generally good where you can do it. 2) use different configs in production and staging. The differences being able to redirect things, using different usernames, passwords, hostnames, etc. Each has pros and cons. Right now I'd like to do 1) but I don't think its possible. 2) is going to require a lot of focus. For example... we won't be able to just git merge from staging to production as we could with 1). there is also a combination of #1 and #2. Basically you have to create 3-4 separate network topologies (this is where you have different configs), and maybe have your bastion/proxy systems different. NameNetwork Network A: Development -- 10.10.0.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.0.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.4.0/22 Network B: QA -- 10.10.8.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.8.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.12.0/22 Network C: Staging -- 10.10.16.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.16.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.20.0/22 Network D: Production -- 10.10.24.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.24.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.28.0/22 Network E: Management -- 10.10.32.0/20 Puppet -- 10.10.32.0/21 Drac/Serial -- 10.10.48.0/21 Network F: Bastion Network [Ok I would love to have done this when I was at RH... but didn't really see it in action til later.] Basically a box would have 3-4 network connections. The puppet and drac/serial networks are on all systems so have to be extra protected as that is where an attacker could walk from system to system. The bastion network is basically the front end that would do rewrites and other layers so that configs are the same. And yes, this might be overkill and probably has holes in it.. I am doing it from memory on how a site seemed to be set up and had basically little downtime for critical HR services. Security's only an issue in that we don't want people making changes to production data from staging and vise versa. The same people will have the same access to both of these environments without exception. I'm going to continue to think about this. I've had staging environments in the past. Both went with option 2). But still. I'd like to hold this discussion so discuss. -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. The Merchant of Venice ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: [fedora-java] Strange build error for classpathx-mail
Andrew Haley wrote: This is probably https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=459129 Jakub has a patch and we're waiting for gcj to be respun into a new RPM. Andrew. Indeed. Thanks. -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA DivisionFAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: staging environment discussion
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: there is also a combination of #1 and #2. Basically you have to create 3-4 separate network topologies (this is where you have different configs), and maybe have your bastion/proxy systems different. NameNetwork Network A: Development -- 10.10.0.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.0.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.4.0/22 Network B: QA -- 10.10.8.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.8.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.12.0/22 Network C: Staging -- 10.10.16.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.16.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.20.0/22 Network D: Production -- 10.10.24.0/21 Servers -- 10.10.24.0/22 NFS -- 10.10.28.0/22 Network E: Management -- 10.10.32.0/20 Puppet -- 10.10.32.0/21 Drac/Serial -- 10.10.48.0/21 Network F: Bastion Network [Ok I would love to have done this when I was at RH... but didn't really see it in action til later.] Basically a box would have 3-4 network connections. The puppet and drac/serial networks are on all systems so have to be extra protected as that is where an attacker could walk from system to system. The bastion network is basically the front end that would do rewrites and other layers so that configs are the same. And yes, this might be overkill and probably has holes in it.. I am doing it from memory on how a site seemed to be set up and had basically little downtime for critical HR services. We are actually looking to get more network separation in place but right now thats slow and is going to involve the buildsystem first. But at some point in the not too distant future I would like to separate stg and production environments. -Mike ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Re: staging environment discussion
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008, Mike McGrath wrote: So as many of you have seen in the commits lists, the staging environment is coming along and getting built. I've hit a policy issue and so I thought instead of just doing this in a black hole. I'd discuss it. The way I see it there are two ways to do staging environments. For those of you unfamiliar with staging the general idea is to have an environment as close to production as feasible. 1) use identical configs with only minor changes and use /etc/hosts to fake things to point where you need them. Not always possible but generally good where you can do it. 2) use different configs in production and staging. The differences being able to redirect things, using different usernames, passwords, hostnames, etc. Each has pros and cons. Right now I'd like to do 1) but I don't think its possible. 2) is going to require a lot of focus. For example... we won't be able to just git merge from staging to production as we could with 1). Security's only an issue in that we don't want people making changes to production data from staging and vise versa. The same people will have the same access to both of these environments without exception. I'm going to continue to think about this. I've had staging environments in the past. Both went with option 2). But still. I'd like to hold this discussion so discuss. What I've done is #2, but with software that accepts a second config file that overrides the first. The first config is the same between production and staging, and the staging specific config is in the second file. That way you can keep your staging settings from accidently getting migrated to production. This works best if you only have a small amount of changes between staging and production and if your software supports it. Maybe puppet templates for all the config files that differ would be the best way to handle f-i's needs? ___ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
need approval
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Re: [Fedora-legal-list] binclock license
TC == Tom \spot\ Callaway Tom writes: TC Given that the author wrote the debian/copyright file, we can TC take that as his intent. Would it be possible to add a bit to the Licensing page or FAQ about determining intent in situations like this? Or it would simply be better to ask in each case? - J ___ Fedora-legal-list mailing list Fedora-legal-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legal-list
Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I'm not trying to start a flamewar. I am just curious. Thanks, Michael -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
From: Patrick O'Callaghan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 2008, September 04 06:24
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 23:42 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 10:30 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
hardest of all find a secure way to provide the public part of the
signing key
The whole point about asymmetric encryption is that you don't need a
secure distribution channel. The worst that can happen is that some
fake
public key gets distributed, which won't match the private key and
hence
will be instantly detectable.
NAK - if a fake public key were distributed then packages signed with
the fake key would be matched, allowing full access to install crap in
your machine.
True.
And packages signed with any valid redhat key would be
rejected.
Which is what I said. Thus it would be noticed immediately.
The public key really must be distributed in a secure manner.
The standard way is to use certificates, but the update process isn't
set up for this AFAIK, and in any case certificates have to be
signed ... I'm sure suggestions are welcome as to how to accomplish
this.
poc
Suppose I have NO RedHat installed. I have no working computer near
me. I want to install Fedora 9. How do I establish the ability to
subject the packages to tests for being properly signed, that the
key used in the test is correct, and that I am reading and updating
from a legitimate mirror?
If this can be done once in an initial install situation it can be done
again in an update situation using the same mechanism.
{^_^}
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Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem
Hi, I've just installed Fedora-9 on a lab of Dell OptiPlex 745 (SFF) machines. ( only in 1 lab TG ) After running firstboot when I went to reboot the machines they just hang and I had to do a hard reboot. I thought this was a minor glitch and ignored it. Now however when the machines boot into Fedora-9 the reboot and suspend buttons do not work. The windowing system just shuts down and I get a text prompt and the machines just hang there. As thes are dual boot machines this will cause a lot of problems starting monday when the students return ;-( Is ther some magic incantation to grub to sort this problem or any body got any ideas. Thank's Tony -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem
what kind of video card? - Original Message From: Tony Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fedora-list@redhat.com Sent: Friday, September 5, 2008 3:52:42 AM Subject: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem Hi, I've just installed Fedora-9 on a lab of Dell OptiPlex 745 (SFF) machines. ( only in 1 lab TG ) After running firstboot when I went to reboot the machines they just hang and I had to do a hard reboot. I thought this was a minor glitch and ignored it. Now however when the machines boot into Fedora-9 the reboot and suspend buttons do not work. The windowing system just shuts down and I get a text prompt and the machines just hang there. As thes are dual boot machines this will cause a lot of problems starting monday when the students return ;-( Is ther some magic incantation to grub to sort this problem or any body got any ideas. Thank's Tony -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
- Original Message From: g [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Sent: Friday, September 5, 2008 12:58:16 AM Subject: Re: Can't switch to KDE -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 landon kelsey wrote: I went through this when I installed F9 switchdesk is DEAD I once used switchdesk to switch to KDE but no more On the login page at the lower left is an icon to allow the choice of desktop manager KDE GNOME this has been suggested. also, if you are going to *top post*, please remove history below it. i thank you. and so will others. - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIwMp4+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAoXIAKC53wACgniECautWbZDByI0OM+XrwCgoGpd Lz6dk9zi/3M719cOF5Y3lNo= =c49O -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines thanks! will do...old habit...I always fly upside down Is this where it should be placed? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: Pretty sure it used to be populated? I'm sorry but I can't go back any farther Yes, pretty sure. You've only looked at 2 Fedoras (3 counting F9). RHEL versions mean nothing to me. I know I've used this before and I know for a fact that I didn't create the file the first time. I started with RedHat Linux 3rd edition (i.e. pre-Fedora and pre-RHEL), which is over 10 years ago, so who knows? I have /etc/sysconfig/desktop DESKTOP=KDE DISPLAYMANAGER=KDM on the Fedora-9 laptop I'm using now. I'm pretty sure I didn't write it. I did install Fedora from the KDE Live CD, which might be relevant. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
Timothy Murphy wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: Pretty sure it used to be populated? I'm sorry but I can't go back any farther Yes, pretty sure. You've only looked at 2 Fedoras (3 counting F9). RHEL versions mean nothing to me. I know I've used this before and I know for a fact that I didn't create the file the first time. I started with RedHat Linux 3rd edition (i.e. pre-Fedora and pre-RHEL), which is over 10 years ago, so who knows? I have /etc/sysconfig/desktop DESKTOP=KDE DISPLAYMANAGER=KDM on the Fedora-9 laptop I'm using now. I'm pretty sure I didn't write it. I did install Fedora from the KDE Live CD, which might be relevant. Yes, the live cd kickstart file used to compose the KDE live cd automatically populates these entries. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Kernel-headers from Fedora 8 updates missing ext3_fs.h
The build for kernel-headers from the latest Fedora 8 is missing linux/ext3_fs.h it would seem that the config in the i386 build does not pull it in. Does anybody know how I can alter the source RPM to get this and other missing headers loaded? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Kernel-headers from Fedora 8 updates missing ext3_fs.h
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008, Howard Wilkinson wrote: The build for kernel-headers from the latest Fedora 8 is missing linux/ext3_fs.h it would seem that the config in the i386 build does not pull it in. Does anybody know how I can alter the source RPM to get this and other missing headers loaded? kernel-devel ? Regards -- Karl-Olov Serrander m11172.abc.se -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Kernel-headers from Fedora 8 updates missing ext3_fs.h
Karl-Olov Serrander wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2008, Howard Wilkinson wrote: The build for kernel-headers from the latest Fedora 8 is missing linux/ext3_fs.h it would seem that the config in the i386 build does not pull it in. Does anybody know how I can alter the source RPM to get this and other missing headers loaded? kernel-devel ? Regards Nope, I have that installed but it does not pull in the additional headers. It looks like a build time problem! I need to sort this as I need to rebuild anaconda! -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem
On Friday 05 September 2008 11:55:28 landon kelsey wrote: what kind of video card? Intel Corp 82Q963/Q965 Integrated Graphics Controller Driver i915 Tony - Original Message From: Tony Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fedora-list@redhat.com Sent: Friday, September 5, 2008 3:52:42 AM Subject: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem Hi, I've just installed Fedora-9 on a lab of Dell OptiPlex 745 (SFF) machines. ( only in 1 lab TG ) After running firstboot when I went to reboot the machines they just hang and I had to do a hard reboot. I thought this was a minor glitch and ignored it. Now however when the machines boot into Fedora-9 the reboot and suspend buttons do not work. The windowing system just shuts down and I get a text prompt and the machines just hang there. As thes are dual boot machines this will cause a lot of problems starting monday when the students return ;-( Is ther some magic incantation to grub to sort this problem or any body got any ideas. Thank's Tony -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
landon kelsey wrote: I went through this when I installed F9 switchdesk is DEAD I once used switchdesk to switch to KDE but no more On the login page at the lower left is an icon to allow the choice of desktop manager KDE GNOME From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:07:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Can't switch to KDE On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 13:59 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 11:51 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: I've never used switchdesk. Does it do something spectacular? I've always logged out, used the icon on the login panel to select the other session, then logged in again. What extra does switchdesk give you? Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop , or doesn't that work any more? It should, but that file has to be created in F8, is not there in my box. the switchdesk is an optional package. I find is the quickest way to change your desktop at the CLI -no file editing. ~af How do you do it using CLI? Install the switchdesk package, then change the desktop. $ sudo yum install switchdesk $ switchdesk KDE that's it. you can use your Fedora CD to install if you don't want to use yum. I'm running F8, and I figure F9 should be no different. ~af It is different, and the above does not work. It certainly worked in F8. -- === A pencil with no point needs no eraser. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines _ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 The problem you have is that KDE is not installed. I purchased a Fedora 9 Bible book which contained two Fedora 9 installation CD's, one installation did not contain KDE so I was not able to switch but the second CD contained Fedora 9 KDE. Problem solved. You need to install the KDE version of Fedora 9. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Kernel-headers from Fedora 8 updates missing ext3_fs.h
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 13:07 +0100, Howard Wilkinson wrote: Karl-Olov Serrander wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2008, Howard Wilkinson wrote: The build for kernel-headers from the latest Fedora 8 is missing linux/ext3_fs.h it would seem that the config in the i386 build does not pull it in. Does anybody know how I can alter the source RPM to get this and other missing headers loaded? kernel-devel ? Regards Nope, I have that installed but it does not pull in the additional headers. It looks like a build time problem! I need to sort this as I need to rebuild anaconda! I see it in kernel-devel: /lib/modules/version/build/include/linux/ext3_fs.h So you probably just need to have a -I option for building that references the path correctly. But if you're rebuilding anaconda from the SRPM, all this should be done for you, since the automatic builders have to accomplish this task too. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:21 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I'm not trying to start a flamewar. I am just curious. +1. I haven't used sendmail in over 5 years and have to keep remembering to turn the damn thing off (servers run postfix, clients talk to port 25 directly). poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:21 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. I've never heard default defined as desktop before. Why do you equate the two? (To me, the default is a solid base that needs a (small) bit of package selection to make an optimal server or desktop -- but I also think that the PC paradigm has us thinking too hard in terms of 'server' and 'client' and that there are lots of use cases that are combinations). Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... I like being able to assume basic outbound MTA functionality is present, so imho having sendmail there by default is a Good Thing. (But yeah, no one reads root's mail. Maybe firstboot should give the option -- enabled by default -- to redirect root's mail to the first user created (or another address of the user's choice) via /etc/aliases). As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I didn't realize we're not running a combined crond/atd until your message prompted me to check! I wonder why... -- Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Recent KDE poll
Tim: The new KDE menu seems to be copying the new crappy Windows start menu. Anne Wilson: I'm sick of hearing this. Yeah, well, live with it. If the shoe fits... I'm rather sick of hearing how wonderful KDE *allegedly* is. It's long been said that KDE is going to suit Windows users as being close to what they're used to, and not without reason. And it's somewhat hypocritical to hold a poll, then complain when you receive bad feedback. I still don't see what he's driving at. The new KDE menu is also divided, into tabs. In a convoluted manner to make use of. i.e. More complicated than necessary. KDE has always been, and seems like it will continue to be, emphasising flashy tartiness over function. Windows has always had a god-awful and un-ergonomic user-interface, it's not a good model to follow. Yet the similarities between the two are unmistakable. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
Jeff Spaleta wrote: If you want to be security paranoid concerning the validity of the new key when it becomes available.. go right ahead.. be paranoid about it. But if you need 3rd parties to sign off on the key before you use it, then you should already have been talking to 3rd parties about doing it for the last Fedora key. Talk to the 3rd parties.. get them to agree to sign the new key and put the detached signatures somewhere public. This is a (hopefully) one-time problem, and therefore it probably doesn't need a perfect, automated, runs-by-itelf solution. And my assumption has been that some people at other repositories do personally know and interact with official people in the Fedora project, and that there is an out-of-band way to pass information to the people at some other repository. Given the nature of the problem, that could mean carrying a CD a hundred miles to meet with someone who is personally known to you from a presentation, etc, etc. It need not be pretty, let's assume that this is a one-time problem. The the other repository creates an RPM, containing not the key, but the RPM created by Fedora, signed appropriately, which in turn contains the new key, and distributes an RPM which installs an RPM, which rpm (the program) now knows how to handle. So instead of signing a key, they create and sign an RPM which itself contains an RPM, which can be manually installed by the cautious. Does that satisfy the technical issues you raised? It's what I had in mind initially, when I proposed a secure means of distributing the information. I know it's ugly, but it's a one night stand. -- Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
Ed Greshko wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: The hypothetical scenario being discussed is that you have already replaced the former (good but now possibly suspect) public key with a spurious new one. If that were to happen, you would be in danger of accepting trojanned packages signed with this new fake key. My point is that you would also *reject* packages signed with the new good key, and this would be noticed very quickly (basically the next time you did an update). That is an extremely unlikely possibility as you have to generate a key with the same key id (fingerprint)as the original. Also, you have to determine how to trick all users in to replacing the original. All users? This is like spam email, you only need to succeed in a few cases to get benefit. And distributing the fingerprint assumes you can do that securely as well. -- Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Recent KDE poll
Hi, Can't you all please stop polluting this mailing list with this endless kid discussion. My Big Jim is better than your Action Joe ... So what ? Continue using your prefered desktop env and shut up. Regards, Laurent Tim a écrit : Tim: The new KDE menu seems to be copying the new crappy Windows start menu. Anne Wilson: I'm sick of hearing this. Yeah, well, live with it. If the shoe fits... I'm rather sick of hearing how wonderful KDE *allegedly* is. It's long been said that KDE is going to suit Windows users as being close to what they're used to, and not without reason. And it's somewhat hypocritical to hold a poll, then complain when you receive bad feedback. I still don't see what he's driving at. The new KDE menu is also divided, into tabs. In a convoluted manner to make use of. i.e. More complicated than necessary. KDE has always been, and seems like it will continue to be, emphasising flashy tartiness over function. Windows has always had a god-awful and un-ergonomic user-interface, it's not a good model to follow. Yet the similarities between the two are unmistakable. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:18 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Aaron Konstam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 13:59 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Konstam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 11:51 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Timothy Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: I've never used switchdesk. Does it do something spectacular? I've always logged out, used the icon on the login panel to select the other session, then logged in again. What extra does switchdesk give you? Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop , or doesn't that work any more? It should, but that file has to be created in F8, is not there in my box. the switchdesk is an optional package. I find is the quickest way to change your desktop at the CLI -no file editing. ~af How do you do it using CLI? Install the switchdesk package, then change the desktop. $ sudo yum install switchdesk $ switchdesk KDE that's it. you can use your Fedora CD to install if you don't want to use yum. I'm running F8, and I figure F9 should be no different. ~af It is different, and the above does not work. It certainly worked in F8. -- I saw this in the F9 Release Notes (10.1.2). I wonder what else changed. Note: ~/.Xclients and ~/.xsession are no longer read automatically at login time. If you use either of these files, install the xorg-x11-xinit-session package. ~af I was optimistic, since switchdesk actually changes .Xclients-defaults which is run by .Xclients but this installation still does not work. The end result I have achieved though by getting my machine to run kdm instead of gdm. The login screen in kdm (at least I think it is kdm) allows one to change sessions. I got in to this non-standard position of running gnome from kdm login screen by going to init 3, running switchdesk KDE and then running startx. This method is not recommended for the weak at heart, -- === About the time we think we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. -- Herbert Hoover === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:21 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I'm not trying to start a flamewar. I am just curious. +1. I haven't used sendmail in over 5 years and have to keep remembering to turn the damn thing off (servers run postfix, clients talk to port 25 directly). Turn the sendmail service off, then send yourself a couple of mails: echo lala | mail -s test root Then check /var/spool/clientmqueue/. These messages appear to be on your system anyway. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE-correction
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:30 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote: Aaron Konstam wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 16:05 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:48 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 04 September 2008 14:38:12 Aaron Konstam wrote: I do a switchdesk and set KDE as the default window manager. I am told that I have to restart X to make it happen. I do that by typing: ctrl-alt-backspace (or I go to init 3 and then back to init 5). Which Fedora version? Which KDE version? But nothing works. Were have I gone wrong? Did you try a reboot? Sometimes restarting X does fail. Was KDE working before this? Anne I tried reboot but no go. However, using startdesk from init 3 and using startx resultws when I reboot, I get a different login screen with a session choice. I suspect I am not running kde with gnome. If I get tired of it I will switch back. I tried reboot but no go. However, using startdesk from init 3 and using startx resultws when I reboot, I get a different login screen with a session choice. I suspect I am now running kde with gnome. If I get tired of it I will switch back. In F8 and previous versions, the X startup code looks for /etc/sysconfig/desktop. If the file is found, the value in the DISPLAYMANAGER= line is used to launch a specific desktop. Valid values are: GNOME KDE WDM XDM or the absolute path to the desktop manager of your choice. If /etc/sysconfig/desktop is NOT found, then it tries to launch a desktop manager in this order: gdm kdm wdm xdm I can't speak to how F9 does things since my F9 machine is unavailable at this time. That is not how f9 works -- === No, `Eureka' is Greek for `This bath is too hot.' -- Dr. Who === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Chris Tyler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 08:04 AM On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:21 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote: I've never heard default defined as desktop before. Why do you equate the two? (To me, the default is a solid base that needs a (small) bit of package selection to make an optimal server or desktop -- but I also think that the PC paradigm has us thinking too hard in terms of 'server' and 'client' and that there are lots of use cases that are combinations). By default no servers are installed. Not apache, not named, not dhcpd, not even an FTP server. Sendmail is the only server-class daemon that is installed by default. I'm not asking for sendmail's removal from installation but simply not enabling it at boot time. I like being able to assume basic outbound MTA functionality is present, so imho having sendmail there by default is a Good Thing. (But yeah, no one reads root's mail. Maybe firstboot should give the option -- enabled by default -- to redirect root's mail to the first user created (or another address of the user's choice) via /etc/aliases). Outbound MTAs on a local user's system are essentially useless in today's Internet. All major e-mail domains have spam filters specifically blocking dynamic IPs and most Fedora users have dynamic IP addresses, or in some non-US countries proxy IP addresses, even worse. The solution would be to configure sendmail to relay through your ISPs mail server, but who is going to do that. No one. I didn't realize we're not running a combined crond/atd until your message prompted me to check! I wonder why... I'm walking my way up the food chain with this question, so maybe we'll find an answer soon. Mike -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Jeroen van Meeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 08:55 AM Turn the sendmail service off, then send yourself a couple of mails: echo lala | mail -s test root Then check /var/spool/clientmqueue/. These messages appear to be on your system anyway. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip Yes, it seems we also need to disable the mail program in some way as well if disabling sendmail at boot time. Thanks for the reminder. Mike -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
Anders Karlsson wrote:
* jdow [EMAIL PROTECTED] [20080905 08:56]:
Suppose I have NO RedHat installed. I have no working computer near
me. I want to install Fedora 9. How do I establish the ability to
subject the packages to tests for being properly signed, that the
key used in the test is correct, and that I am reading and updating
from a legitimate mirror?
In this event you are likely installing from physical media, which
will have the public key on it already. If you do not trust that media
- why are you installing from it?
And here you bring out a good point, most users probably download an
image and create the media themselves. Assuming that you get the sha1sum
from a trusted source *and use it*, you are probably as safe doing that
as buying from a DVD house and using that, or going to an install-a-thon
and having a perfect stranger install software on your system. Having
been the installer a few times, perhaps people could question me,
although no one has.
Once you have installed the system - the updates you are pulling down
will be verified with the key that was on the media - unless you
actively go and switch off the gpg checking.
The part about how to distribute the new public key - that is the
thing that the infrastructure team is debating how to best do now.
Nitpicking - it is spelled Red Hat.
If this can be done once in an initial install situation it can be done
again in an update situation using the same mechanism.
{^_^}
As others have already pointed out - it's a question of trust. At some
point or other - you have to decide what you trust. If you do not
trust something, do not use it (and then live with the consequences of
that choice).
If you decide not to trust passports, you will simply find it a bit
hard to travel from country to country. If you don't trust the Fedora
key, you'll find it a bit hard to use Fedora.
My view of the Fedora public key is that it is a means to verify the
integrity of the packages coming from the Fedora repo's. That the
package is originating from Fedora, and not from untrusted 3rd
party and that the packages have not been tampered with in
mid-flight. If you don't trust the method by which packages are
downloaded, verified and installed by yum - maybe you'd trust going to
the Fedora download site and grabbing the packages, one by one, and
installing them by hand?
This is a potential solution actually. If you don't trust https:// to
the download section of Fedora - you don't trust Fedora full stop. So
providing a page with the new key, and instruction for what to change
and how, on your system to point at the new repo's should satisfy even
the most paranoid people on this list. As the packages are signed with
the new key, and if you remove the old key - you should be OK. Right?
Actually, I would think that just distributing a single RPM package that
way, containing the new key, would be preferable to getting it through
the yum distribution channel, at least from my point of view. Then the
yum channel would become trusted again.
Yes - it requires manual interaction, it'll be a PITA etc etc ad
nauseum. You have a better, more trustworthy idea? Let's hear it.
Actually I assumed that distribution directly from the Fedora servers
had been impractical or even insecure for some reason, which is why I
have proposed alternative ideas. It crossed my mind that the SSL certs
might have been compromised as well.
--
Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot
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Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 09:01 -0500, Mike Cronenworth wrote: I like being able to assume basic outbound MTA functionality is present, so imho having sendmail there by default is a Good Thing. (But yeah, no one reads root's mail. Maybe firstboot should give the option -- enabled by default -- to redirect root's mail to the first user created (or another address of the user's choice) via /etc/aliases). Outbound MTAs on a local user's system are essentially useless in today's Internet. All major e-mail domains have spam filters specifically blocking dynamic IPs and most Fedora users have dynamic IP addresses, or in some non-US countries proxy IP addresses, even worse. The solution would be to configure sendmail to relay through your ISPs mail server, but who is going to do that. No one. (a) With sendmail there, you have a chance of being able to send outbound e-mail. You may need to adjust the configuration depending on the network. (b) Without sendmail or another MTA there, there is zero chance of being able to send outbound e-mail without doing configuration. So I suppose the question is what percentage of systems in (a) can send outbound e-mail without further MTA configuration? -- if this approaches 0, then a==b, and sendmail should be disabled by default. I don't think that's the case; sendmail can definitely send mail to the LAN, and there are a fair number of cases where sending beyond the LAN will work too (those with static IPs, those on a corporate or university network, ...) -Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Jeroen van Meeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 08:55 AM Turn the sendmail service off, then send yourself a couple of mails: echo lala | mail -s test root Then check /var/spool/clientmqueue/. These messages appear to be on your system anyway. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip Ugh, I knew I should have been replying to e-mail this early in the morning. The better option is to `rpm -e logwatch` and that would stop mail from being generated. No need to disable mail. Mike -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 22:35 +0100, Stuart Sears wrote: Aaron Konstam wrote: [...stuff about switchdesk... ] Nothing extra. It just allows you to change the default window manager. The problem with the session icon on the login panel is that I don't have one. So maybe the question is how to get it to appear. It was there in previous installations. Any ideas? On my F9 system it doesn't appear until you have selected your username - then you get language and session boxes to choose from in the bar at the bottom By George, you are right. I never noticed that. Thanks. -- === Living in LA is like not having a date on Saturday night. -- Candice Bergen === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Chris Tyler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 09:13 AM (a) With sendmail there, you have a chance of being able to send outbound e-mail. You may need to adjust the configuration depending on the network. (b) Without sendmail or another MTA there, there is zero chance of being able to send outbound e-mail without doing configuration. I believe Evolution is installed by default, is it not? *Desktop* Fedora users are guaranteed outbound e-mail with or without sendmail. If a desktop application needs to send an e-mail to the Internet it will need to let the end-user take care of it due to my points about spam filtering. So I suppose the question is what percentage of systems in (a) can send outbound e-mail without further MTA configuration? -- if this approaches 0, then a==b, and sendmail should be disabled by default. I don't think that's the case; sendmail can definitely send mail to the LAN, and there are a fair number of cases where sending beyond the LAN will work too (those with static IPs, those on a corporate or university network, ...) You cannot send mail to the LAN. By default sendmail is only able to accept email from 127.0.0.1. Plus, Fedora's default iptables rules do not include port 25. You would have to do quite a bit of extra configuration work to send messages between Fedora boxes on a LAN. The point is moot. Mike -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Michael Cronenworth wrote: Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. Unless you disable cron, it is needed to process the output of cron jobs. By default, it only listens to 127.0.0.1, so it can only be used for local mail delivery. Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... Someone should be reading the main. You can change who gets root's mail. (/etc/aliases for all of root's mail.) Or you can change cron so it does not send any mail. (/etc/crontab) If you have sendmail configured so that it can send mail to another mail server, you can send the messages to an e-mail account on another server. As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I am not sure why atd is active by default. You can control who can use it with /etc/at.allow and /etc/at.deny. You can use it from the command line, so you do not need a GUI installed. I probably do not qualify as a *normal* anything, much less a *normal* fedora user, but I have been know to use it to do things like set a one-time alarm. I have a script called pizza that runs at -f ~/etc/alarm now + 22 minutes to let me know when it is time to check the pizza in the oven. :) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 21:30 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 20:18 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote: $ rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/fstab file /etc/fstab is not owned by any package # rpm -qf /etc/fstab setup-2.6.14-1.fc9.noarch # rpm -qf /etc/sysconfig filesystem-2.4.13-1.fc9.x86_64 # However: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sysconfig]# rpm -qf /etc/sysconfig/desktop file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package -- === Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. -- John Lennon, Beautiful Boy === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 05:52 +, g wrote: Mike McCarty wrote: snip I thought that the topic of immediate interst was whether that is interest in this ravel of thread. so, going forward to solve op's original question and provided that he *does* have kde installed; /etc/X11/prefdm executes '. /etc/sysconfig/desktop'. [from 'man xinit'] so, by setting up /etc/sysconfig/desktop to, #!/bin/sh DESKTOP=KDE DISPLAYMANAGER=KDE as previously described to set things to kde, op should get kde for desktop. Let us be clear. I am running f9, I have kde installed and /etc/sysconfig/desktop exists. But the file is empty. Filling it as you indicate does nothing to get me KDE. The session change icon on the panel in gdm once you have chosen a user name does let me launch KDE. So the ultimate problem is solved leaving much mystery behind. -- === I have a very small mind and must live with it. -- E. Dijkstra === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 09:59:26 -0400, Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a (hopefully) one-time problem, and therefore it probably Considering that this has happened twice to large distributions (Debian and Red Hat / Fedora), I think the best we can hope for is rare. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 18:46 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 15:47 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:22 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 20:35 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote: Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop , or doesn't that work any more? It does work and has been mentioned here several times in the past. Note that F9 doesn't seem to include the file by default so you have to create it, and of course know what to put in it. For KDE: #!/bin/sh DESKTOP=KDE DISPLAYMANAGER=KDE poc That does not work on my machine. What does not work mean? What exactly happens? Have you restarted X after makimg the above changes? It's not enough just to log out and in again since you want to change the display manager (not just the window manager). init 3 init 5 from a console should do the trick. Not work means when I login I get GNOME not KDE. What do you think of .Xclient-default? You mean .Xclients-default? It just seems to execute startkde on my system. That won't change the display manager either. Actually running startkde does change the display manager. Which is how switchsession is supposed to work. You just want to change the display manager for thew one user not the whole machine. This is why /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not a candidate for the job. Silly question: you *have* installed KDE Desktop, right? KDE is installed. -- === Moebius always does it on the same side. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Can't switch to KDE
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 05:24 -0700, Alex Makhlin wrote: landon kelsey wrote: I went through this when I installed F9 switchdesk is DEAD I once used switchdesk to switch to KDE but no more On the login page at the lower left is an icon to allow the choice of desktop manager KDE GNOME From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:07:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Can't switch to KDE On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 13:59 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 11:51 -0700, Aldo Foot wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: I've never used switchdesk. Does it do something spectacular? I've always logged out, used the icon on the login panel to select the other session, then logged in again. What extra does switchdesk give you? Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop , or doesn't that work any more? It should, but that file has to be created in F8, is not there in my box. the switchdesk is an optional package. I find is the quickest way to change your desktop at the CLI -no file editing. ~af How do you do it using CLI? Install the switchdesk package, then change the desktop. $ sudo yum install switchdesk $ switchdesk KDE that's it. you can use your Fedora CD to install if you don't want to use yum. I'm running F8, and I figure F9 should be no different. ~af It is different, and the above does not work. It certainly worked in F8. -- === A pencil with no point needs no eraser. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines _ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 The problem you have is that KDE is not installed. I purchased a Fedora 9 Bible book which contained two Fedora 9 installation CD's, one installation did not contain KDE so I was not able to switch but the second CD contained Fedora 9 KDE. Problem solved. You need to install the KDE version of Fedora 9. As I keep saying kde is installed on my machine. -- === It is better to wear out than to rust out. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Michael Cronenworth wrote: Are there any legitimate reasons why the atd and sendmail services are enabled by default? A default install is for a desktop and they are quite useless in that regard. The fact that you don't use a service the way it was intended doesn't make it useless. Sendmail only stores the logwatch output, which actually accumulates after a period of time because no normal desktop user reads the mail. Pretty much every program with a unix heritage assumes that sendmail is available to deliver occasional status and warning messages. It could possibly fill up a hard drive on a small drive, such as a eeePC 4gb system. The point of using mail for these notifications is that it can easily be configured to deliver it where you want, instead of accumulating where no one looks at it. I realize we all have terrabyte hard drives now and logwatch is only kilobytes in size, but it's still garbage. Don't get me wrong, I use logwatch mail on Fedora server installs, but for a desktop user... who never reads it... Turn it off if you aren't going to read it - but a better approach is to configure sendmail to deliver it to a gmail account or a place where you will read it without having to go out of your way and where the space it consumes until you read it won't be a problem. I suppose it would be nicer if fedora had a 'fill-in-the-form' setup to configure sendmail to use a remote relay that needs smtp auth and to forward everything since those are common needs these days. As for 'at' well... do *normal* Fedora users have any benefit from this starting up? I realize there is a gnome-schedule utility, but it is not installed by default. I don't know what you think 'normal' users do, but most of the point of having a computer is that it can do things for you automatically. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem
Tony Molloy wrote:
Hi,
I've just installed Fedora-9 on a lab of Dell OptiPlex 745 (SFF) machines. (
only in 1 lab TG )
After running firstboot when I went to reboot the machines they just hang and
I had to do a hard reboot. I thought this was a minor glitch and ignored it.
Now however when the machines boot into Fedora-9 the reboot and suspend
buttons do not work. The windowing system just shuts down and I get a text
prompt and the machines just hang there.
Hang? That's a vague term. If you type on the keyboard, do characters
get echoed? If you have a text prompt, then can you not do a
# shutdown -r now
Or even just
# mount
get a list of mounted file systems, and umount them all, except
for /, which you'll have to
# mount -o remount,ro /
to get them all static, then hit the power button.
Even if you are dead in the water, you should still be able
to hit the power button without corrupting the alternate
OS.
As thes are dual boot machines this will cause a lot of problems starting
monday when the students return ;-(
I don't understand why their being dual boot will cause a lot
of problems. You just installed FC9, so that wasn't there before,
and the problem shows up with FC9 booted. Presumably the alternate
boot is some version of Windows. Does the problem also manifest
itself when Windows (or whatever) is running?
Is ther some magic incantation to grub to sort this problem or any body got
any ideas.
Ok, live and learn. The first idea is, before you make changes
to machines with an important setup, make a backup. In this case,
if you had a disc image, you could probably recover very easily.
Next time, you'll know that.
I'm still a little uncertain why you have a real problem. You
have a machine which misbehaves when FC9 is running. Is it the
fact that you can't shut down that is problematic?
Mike
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Re: Can't switch to KDE
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Konstam wrote: snip Let us be clear. I am running f9, I have kde installed i looked for that but missed it. and /etc/sysconfig/desktop exists. But the file is empty. Filling it as you indicate does nothing to get me KDE. and my bad. i forgot to add run 'startkde' after file was written. - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIwUzj+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAg2uAJ9Z0nwnPu0WVGciRArnwBCG+Q6g8wCfdg6i 72iKpum/EcU25OuBPAk3q6M= =y/g7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Zimbra or something else
I'm in search of a new groupware application. I am currently using egroupware. It works okay but there is a lot I don't like about it. So, I'm looking for another solution. Zimbra seems to be the 'best of breed'. However, I can not find the source code for it. It had binary packages but only for Fedora 7 (of course I'm on 9)... So the question is, what does everyone else use? Here are some that I've heard of: http://www.phpgroupware.org/ http://www.open-xchange.com/ http://www.kolab.org/ http://www.citadel.org/doku.php Thanks in advance. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Mike Cronenworth wrote: You cannot send mail to the LAN. By default sendmail is only able to accept email from 127.0.0.1. Plus, Fedora's default iptables rules do not include port 25. You would have to do quite a bit of extra configuration work to send messages between Fedora boxes on a LAN. The point is moot. Mike The rules are for incoming port 25 connections, not outgoing port 25 connections. The port on the local machine for the outgoing connection is not going to be port 25. As far as changing the firewall to allow incoming port 25 connections, it is a checkbox on the default firewall GUI that will open the connection. If your ISP is not blocking outgoing port 25 connections, except to their mail server, the stock setup of Sendmail will send mail to the Internet. It takes a bit more configuration to use your ISPs mail server, but not much. If you have a mail server on your LAN, you can configure Sendmail to use it without much trouble. It is also not that hard to configure Sendmail to accept incoming connections. All it takes is editing or removing one line, and regenerating the config file. Or if you are brave, you can edit the config file directly. The change is fairly easy. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Zimbra or something else
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 10:56 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in search of a new groupware application. I am currently using egroupware. It works okay but there is a lot I don't like about it. So, I'm looking for another solution. Zimbra seems to be the 'best of breed'. However, I can not find the source code for it. It had binary packages but only for Fedora 7 (of course I'm on 9)... So the question is, what does everyone else use? Here are some that I've heard of: http://www.phpgroupware.org/ http://www.open-xchange.com/ http://www.kolab.org/ http://www.citadel.org/doku.php horde/imp/kronolith/turba - http://www.horde.org it's the web face for kolab where kolab is a tight integration to KDE applications, horde allows you to use whatever you want for mail/calendar/contact client applications. Craig -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Mikkel L. Ellertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 09:56 AM The rules are for incoming port 25 connections, not outgoing port 25 connections. The port on the local machine for the outgoing connection is not going to be port 25. As far as changing the firewall to allow incoming port 25 connections, it is a checkbox on the default firewall GUI that will open the connection. If your ISP is not blocking outgoing port 25 connections, except to their mail server, the stock setup of Sendmail will send mail to the Internet. It takes a bit more configuration to use your ISPs mail server, but not much. You're nitpicking unnecessarily. I know fully well that the incoming port needs to be opening, which is why I stated it as a point against default sendmail startup. No regular desktop Fedora user will even thinkg about su'ing, vi'ing, or even consider needing an MTA. They'll open up Evolution or Thunderbird to send an e-mail. Example: Your User-Agent shows you used Thunderbird to reply to my mail and it travelled through a route that never included using sendmail. You arn't even using it yourself. If you have a mail server on your LAN, you can configure Sendmail to use it without much trouble. It is also not that hard to configure Sendmail to accept incoming connections. All it takes is editing or removing one line, and regenerating the config file. Or if you are brave, you can edit the config file directly. The change is fairly easy. Why would a user who installed using the default Fedora method need to do this? No one has given me an example. Just the fact that you can do it, which I already knew. P.S. Future responders can skip treating me like I just installed Fedora. You're talking to an individual who has years of Unix experience. I know what MTAs are for, what uses them, rules of jobs, etc., etc. Please look at my original question from the standpoint of a *default* Fedora install. What do sendmail and atd do for a default Fedora install? In fact, what do they even do for other packages? I am not asking this for my own benefit, but for the benefit of a regular Fedora user. If you require their service you will know yourself and have to configure and startup (chkconfig or whatever suits you) those services. Don't use the Just Because clause. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
Original Message Subject: Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail From: Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora. fedora-list@redhat.com Date: 09/05/2008 10:04 AM The fact that you don't use a service the way it was intended doesn't make it useless. Pretty much every program with a unix heritage assumes that sendmail is available to deliver occasional status and warning messages. Thank you for your response, however, I did not install Fedora just yesterday. I came about writing this e-mail *after* observing common usage of Fedora by normal desktop users. Please read the other follow-up postings for more in-depth details, but I'll reply to a few of your other comments below. The point of using mail for these notifications is that it can easily be configured to deliver it where you want, instead of accumulating where no one looks at it. Turn it off if you aren't going to read it - but a better approach is to configure sendmail to deliver it to a gmail account or a place where you will read it without having to go out of your way and where the space it consumes until you read it won't be a problem. I suppose it would be nicer if fedora had a 'fill-in-the-form' setup to configure sendmail to use a remote relay that needs smtp auth and to forward everything since those are common needs these days. Adding a form during installation to setup an MTA will only frighten new users. Most would probably skip it anyway as they wouldn't know their ISPs smtp server. But! Let's say for a moment we have it your way and give users a chance to get e-mail notifications on their desktop. They'll only be receiving a logwatch e-mail telling them a `df` or what packages they installed from the latest Fedora update rollout -- I'm sure if I ran a poll a majority would say this kind of e-mail is useless. Just open a file browser to find free space. I don't know what you think 'normal' users do, but most of the point of having a computer is that it can do things for you automatically. sendmail is only utilized by logwatch through a default Fedora install. Yes, lots of traditional unix programs used a MTA, but Fedora doesn't install any of those. Why should a default Fedora install user have to suffer just because *you* want them started up? I'm looking at the majority of users here. Simply because you use sendmail to send you an email or atd to tell you to wake up in the morning doesn't mean default Fedora install users use it. This kind of elitist attitude does Fedora no good. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Recent KDE poll
On Friday 05 September 2008 14:24:40 Tim wrote: Tim: The new KDE menu seems to be copying the new crappy Windows start menu. Anne Wilson: I'm sick of hearing this. Yeah, well, live with it. If the shoe fits... I'm rather sick of hearing how wonderful KDE *allegedly* is. Just a cotton-picking minute. I gave the list the feedback I'd been requested to give. I was not the one that started all this garbage, and all I've contributed has been to correct misapprehensions. Many of the people on this list appear to prefer endless arguments to simple facts. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 09:23 -0500, Mike Cronenworth wrote: If a desktop application needs to send an e-mail to the Internet it will need to let the end-user take care of it due to my points about spam filtering. Ok, but here are two examples where outbound e-mail works out of the box on a desktop: (1) I have an ISP With A Clue providing a static IP on the public side of the NAT router at my home, so Fedora boxes on my LAN can send mail without any additional mail configuration. (This works for all non-desktop sends. For sending from, say, Evolution, the only config necessary is to select sendmail for outgoing mail -- dirt simple). (2) At work, we have static, public IP addresses -- common in colleges, universities, and some companies. Again, my desktop can send mail without any additional configuration. (And I'm still not convinced that default install==desktop install). You cannot send mail to the LAN. By default sendmail is only able to accept email from 127.0.0.1. Plus, Fedora's default iptables rules do not include port 25. You would have to do quite a bit of extra configuration work to send messages between Fedora boxes on a LAN. The point is moot. You cannot send mail to the LAN is patently untrue. A default Fedora install will be able to *send* mail to the LAN in the vast majority of cases. This means that redirecting all those pesky logwatch reports you mentioned is as simple as adding an alias for root to /etc/aliases. Receiving mail on the lan is a different issue altogether -- but then the number of machines receiving mail via SMTP is usually far less than the number of machines sending it. -Chris -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Zimbra or something else
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:56:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in search of a new groupware application. I am currently using egroupware. It works okay but there is a lot I don't like about it. So, I'm looking for another solution. Zimbra seems to be the 'best of breed'. However, I can not find the source code for it. It had binary packages but only for Fedora 7 (of course I'm on 9)... So the question is, what does everyone else use? Here are some that I've heard of: We use zimbra at work it seems OK, but I don't like web interefaces so I have my email forwarded to my desktop and use sunbird to display my calendar. While I would say overall our experience has been positive, they do need to do more to separate bug fixes from enhancements (at least risky enhancements) as new releases seem to have a tendency to fix some things while breaking others. Also parts of Zimbra are free and other parts aren't. My memory (which may not be correct) is the backup and outlook connector pieces aren't free. Also there is some issue with the free license that would make forking a problem. As for it not being included, I remember them making a license wording change at Red Hat's request, so maybe it will get packaged again in the not too distant future. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
Bill Davidsen wrote: Ed Greshko wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: The hypothetical scenario being discussed is that you have already replaced the former (good but now possibly suspect) public key with a spurious new one. If that were to happen, you would be in danger of accepting trojanned packages signed with this new fake key. My point is that you would also *reject* packages signed with the new good key, and this would be noticed very quickly (basically the next time you did an update). That is an extremely unlikely possibility as you have to generate a key with the same key id (fingerprint)as the original. Also, you have to determine how to trick all users in to replacing the original. All users? This is like spam email, you only need to succeed in a few cases to get benefit. And distributing the fingerprint assumes you can do that securely as well. I think you have no concept of public/private encryption or signing. -- Behind every great computer sits a skinny little geek. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Secrecy and user trust
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a (hopefully) one-time problem, and therefore it probably doesn't need a perfect, automated, runs-by-itelf solution. And my assumption has been that some people at other repositories do personally know and interact with official people in the Fedora project, and that there is an out-of-band way to pass information to the people at some other repository. Your assumption absolutely breaks the trust metric. Assume your wrong. Assume that 3rd party repositories are treated just like any other end-user to Fedora...because they are just other end-users with absolutely no special relationship. Assume that.. because that's how it stands. Given the nature of the problem, that could mean carrying a CD a hundred miles to meet with someone who is personally known to you from a presentation, etc, etc. It need not be pretty, let's assume that this is a one-time problem. Are seriously telling us to wait to distribute keys to people so we can get updates flowing again until someone has flown several hundred miles and done the GPG key signing dance with a 3rd party repo signatory and then flown back? Right now for this one time problem.. that is absolutely not worth it. Nor with that ever be worth it. Especially since every single one of our users were already using a key that didn't rely on a physical face-to-face 3rd party key signing up to this point. -jef -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
[Fwd: Fedora 8 and 9 updates status]
For those not subscribed to the list and haven't heard, thought I would pass this along. Thanks, Mike Chambers Fedora Project - Ambassador, Bug Zapper, Tester, User, etc.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Forwarded Message From: Jesse Keating [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: fedora-list@redhat.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fedora 8 and 9 updates status Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:09:10 -0700 As you well know, we have been working hard to get updates for 8 and 9 flowing again, complete with new package signing keys. Discussion has been somewhat quiet on this front as we've all had our heads down and have been working hard toward a solution, one that involves little to no manual effort on behalf of our users. Today we've reached a major milestone in this progress. We have done a successful compose of all the existing and as of yesterday pending updates for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9, all signed with our new keys. These updates will soon hit mirrors in a new set of directory locations. What we don't have quite yet is the updated fedora-release package in the old updates location that will get you the new keys and the new repo locations. The last mile testing of this update requires that new updates be live on the mirrors. Due to the size of the resigned updates, it may take a good while for our sync process. This may delay getting the new fedora-release out until tomorrow, but we'll be working hard on it. While we're working on this update, we'll also be drafting a FAQ page to explain to users what it is that we're doing, and hopefully answer some of the questions that will come up. This document will be living though, and as you encounter questions yourself, or questions via one of our many avenues of support (email, IRC, forums, LUGS, etc..) please help us in growing that document. Announcements regarding the location of said document and how to help with content will be coming shortly. We deeply appreciate the enormous magnitude of patience you the greater community has shown us the Fedora project as we work though these serious issues. It is a great testament to how wonderful it is to work in and with the Fedora community. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
