Re: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
Mike McMullen wrote: Thank you Gilboa and James! Here's a little more information. Someone gave me the de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 PC. So I have a free PC I'd like to turn into a NAS server. This doesn't have to be pretty just functional and semi-cheap. Since there isn't room in the PC case for the drives, let alone cooling and power, I figured some external case/RAID storage box might do the trick. This thing doesn't need to be the fastest on the planet just reliable and as inexpensive as possible. I need the money for lenses for the cameras. ;o) I've been looking at enclosures etc at www.pc-pitstop.com that use a port multiplier. These seem reasonable. Anyone know anything about port multipliers? Am I missing something big here? I'm definitely not an expert on raid storage. Thanks! Mike On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 06:35 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: Hi All, I am trying to build a NAS server based on Fedora 9. I will be using a de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core with 2GB RAM and two 250GB drives mirrored for the OS stuff and a few apps. Instead of purchasing an external case, I would look at the suggestion of getting a new computer with enough SATA ports to work with you drive requirements. It could be cheaper to do this and provide a server that can do other things like transcoding videos or running ImageMagick scripts on directories of photos. I just purchased a large Thermaltake case that can hold all the drives my ASUS motherboard has SATA and IDE ports for. I am looking at this as well but looking at the new Seagate 1.5TB drives. From a previous thread, you may want to order your drives at different times to ensure that all your drives don't come from the same batch. I was looking at using RAID 1 but the lost drive space over RAID 1 and RAID 5 is drastic enough. I have had drive issues under RAID 1 with software RAID and recovery was very easy. I don't see any reason for hardware RAID for a home small business system. You can use that money for a decent camera lens. -- Robin Laing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 09:13 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: > Thank you Gilboa and James! > > Here's a little more information. > > Someone gave me the de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 PC. So I have a free PC > I'd like to turn into a NAS server. This doesn't have to be pretty just > functional and semi-cheap. > > Since there isn't room in the PC case for the drives, let alone cooling > and power, I figured some external case/RAID storage box might do the > trick. > > This thing doesn't need to be the fastest on the planet just reliable > and as inexpensive as possible. I need the money for lenses for the > cameras. ;o) > > I've been looking at enclosures etc at www.pc-pitstop.com that use a > port multiplier. > > These seem reasonable. Anyone know anything about port multipliers? Am I > missing something big here? > > I'm definitely not an expert on raid storage. > > Thanks! > > Mike Hello Mike, The enclosures looks OK. I'd get the bigger one and use a -lot- of small(er) drives in RAID6 +hotspare instead of using 5x1TB drives in RAID5. Given the fact that most hardware controllers are limited to RAID5, I'd suggest you use software RAID instead. (Plus, it gives you the option to connect the enclosure to another machine and just boot). One problem though - the enclosure + 2 x eSATA controllers + port replicators is not cheap. (>1000$ combined). Seems to me that it'll be far cheaper to replace the case with a huge tower case with a decent (600w+) PSU. (Plus - dumb internal SATA controllers tend to be cheaper than external ones) Oh, get a -good- UPS. - Gilboa -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
Gilboa Davara wrote: On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 06:35 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: Hi All, I am trying to build a NAS server based on Fedora 9. I will be using a de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core with 2GB RAM and two 250GB drives mirrored for the OS stuff and a few apps. That's a bit light on RAM. Depending on your usage case (random/sequential) I'd consider adding additional memory. I would like to add some type of raid storage box to it with about 5 1TB drives using raid 5 unless there is something better. I like software RAID6 (runs with any two drives failed), and you want to look at eSATA connection to an external box. Newegg has enclosures, as do many others. I'd consider switching the 1TB drives with smaller one. IME big drives are (far) less reliable than small ones. Today the values of big and smaller are changing every few months. What you say is generally true, although I find the new drives in general are better each upgrade. I want to use the system for photography work flow and backing up a few Windows systems. My questions are as follows: 1. What is an inexpensive external RAID storage box to go with? If you're talking about 5-8 drives, a big tower case will do. Any particular reason why your rather use an external case? (With an additional power supply?) You want a big power supply and lots of fans. Drives don't like heat. Google released a paper on the relation between SMART monitoring and failure prediction, but it talks about some additional factors like heat and crappy power. 2. What is a good inexpensive RAID controller to go with? 3ware has a very good SATA raid controller. Same goes for LSI. And Adaptek. For software RAID you just use the JBOD mode. 3. S/W RAID vs HW RAID? Which is the most reliable way to go? Hardware RAIDs are easier to setup and maintain, but cannot be transferred from one machine to the other. Expensive hardware RAID controllers add additional battery back cache that can improve the performance and reliability in case of power outage. Software RAIDs are somewhat harder to manage, but can be moved from one machine to the other with no additional effort. Plus, software RAID has build in RAID6 support. (In case you need better reliability.) With software RAID you have a chance to talk to users and developers if you have some really odd problem, and it's part of Linux. Depending on the controller vendor you might not want to admit running Linux at all, and you surely won't get a patch. HW is easier to set up, just plug and pray. 4. Are there ways to do full backups of windows boxes and restore a complete bootable drive from the Linux box? Previous versions of Norton Ghost had no problems connecting to my samba shares. And most systems can boot from a USB (and maybe eSATA) device. 5. What is the largest file system Fedora 9 can support? ext3 is more than enough. (2TB file, 8TB FS) Agree. 6. Are there performance hits for large file systems? I'm using >1TB FS without a problem. The only trick there is in defining your filesystem, I would use ext3 because it is far more used and beaten upon, and your load sounds small. You want to be sure you use the optional parameter to match the RAID chunk size with the stride side, sparse superblocks, and hash directories if you will have a lot of smaller files in a directory. Thanks so much in advance! Mike In general, I'd consider using ~11x500GB in a software RAID6 and put the OS on the same RAID. (10+1 setup) A CoolerMaster Stacker STC-101 case is more than capable of hosting >11 3.5" drives. I would put the OS internally, since he has the existing drives for RAID1. Small drives would be faster, large drives cheaper per TB, and less heat per TB. I'll pass on reliability, smaller drives (using same technology) may be better, but you use more of them, so 500GB vs. 1TB the small ones need to be 2x better to have the same failure rate per TB. I have no insight into that, for power savings I usually go big. Last thought: ship drives via UPS, I'm up to about 65 Seagates w/o a DOA with them, two for seven DOA with another popular shipper. It may be just my local people, but it's noticeable. A local PC clone dealer told me that many of the DOA drives were from shipping, and some distributors packed better than others. Hope this helps. The linux-raid groups is very helpful, should you need help. - Gilboa -- Bill Davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
Mike McMullen wrote: Thank you Gilboa and James! Here's a little more information. Someone gave me the de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 PC. So I have a free PC I'd like to turn into a NAS server. This doesn't have to be pretty just functional and semi-cheap. Since there isn't room in the PC case for the drives, let alone cooling and power, I figured some external case/RAID storage box might do the trick. This thing doesn't need to be the fastest on the planet just reliable and as inexpensive as possible. I need the money for lenses for the cameras. ;o) I've been looking at enclosures etc at www.pc-pitstop.com that use a port multiplier. These seem reasonable. Anyone know anything about port multipliers? Am I missing something big here? I'm definitely not an expert on raid storage. I've always liked the simplicity of software RAID1. You lose some disk capacity (pretty cheap these days) compared to RAID5 and if you use a simple scheme keeping the disks independent you will have to deal with multiple mount points. In return, you get the ability to easily recover the data from any single disk and to make a backup by swapping out one of the mirrors and sync'ing to a new one. Plus, you don't have to worry about matching up with the old controller if you want to move a disk or a set. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
Thank you Gilboa and James! Here's a little more information. Someone gave me the de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 PC. So I have a free PC I'd like to turn into a NAS server. This doesn't have to be pretty just functional and semi-cheap. Since there isn't room in the PC case for the drives, let alone cooling and power, I figured some external case/RAID storage box might do the trick. This thing doesn't need to be the fastest on the planet just reliable and as inexpensive as possible. I need the money for lenses for the cameras. ;o) I've been looking at enclosures etc at www.pc-pitstop.com that use a port multiplier. These seem reasonable. Anyone know anything about port multipliers? Am I missing something big here? I'm definitely not an expert on raid storage. Thanks! Mike On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 06:35 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: > Hi All, > > I am trying to build a NAS server based on Fedora 9. > > I will be using a de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core with 2GB RAM and > two 250GB drives mirrored for the OS stuff and a few apps. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 06:35 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: > Hi All, > > I am trying to build a NAS server based on Fedora 9. > > I will be using a de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core with 2GB RAM and > two 250GB drives mirrored for the OS stuff and a few apps. Depending on your usage case (random/sequential) I'd consider adding additional memory. > > I would like to add some type of raid storage box to it with about 5 1TB > drives using raid 5 unless there is something better. I'd consider switching the 1TB drives with smaller one. IME big drives are (far) less reliable than small ones. > > I want to use the system for photography work flow and backing up a few > Windows systems. > > My questions are as follows: > > 1. What is an inexpensive external RAID storage box to go with? If you're talking about 5-8 drives, a big tower case will do. Any particular reason why your rather use an external case? (With an additional power supply?) > 2. What is a good inexpensive RAID controller to go with? 3ware has a very good SATA raid controller. Same goes for LSI. > 3. S/W RAID vs HW RAID? Which is the most reliable way to go? Hardware RAIDs are easier to setup and maintain, but cannot be transferred from one machine to the other. Expensive hardware RAID controllers add additional battery back cache that can improve the performance and reliability in case of power outage. Software RAIDs are somewhat harder to manage, but can be moved from one machine to the other with no additional effort. Plus, software RAID has build in RAID6 support. (In case you need better reliability.) > 4. Are there ways to do full backups of windows boxes and restore a > complete bootable drive from the Linux box? Previous versions of Norton Ghost had no problems connecting to my samba shares. > 5. What is the largest file system Fedora 9 can support? ext3 is more than enough. (2TB file, 8TB FS) > 6. Are there performance hits for large file systems? I'm using >1TB FS without a problem. > > Thanks so much in advance! > > Mike In general, I'd consider using ~11x500GB in a software RAID6 and put the OS on the same RAID. (10+1 setup) A CoolerMaster Stacker STC-101 case is more than capable of hosting >11 3.5" drives. - Gilboa -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Backup Server RAID Suggestions - Resend
Mike McMullen wrote: > Hi All, > > I am trying to build a NAS server based on Fedora 9. > > I will be using a de-branded HP Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core with 2GB RAM and > two 250GB drives mirrored for the OS stuff and a few apps. > > I would like to add some type of raid storage box to it with about 5 1TB > drives using raid 5 unless there is something better. > > I want to use the system for photography work flow and backing up a few > Windows systems. > > My questions are as follows: > > 1. What is an inexpensive external RAID storage box to go with? Really depends on hardware or software RAID and they very greatly. There are also IDE vs SCSI issues and the newer SATA. > 2. What is a good inexpensive RAID controller to go with? I'd suggest going with Adaptec. But only because I've used them before. > 3. S/W RAID vs HW RAID? Which is the most reliable way to go? HW RAID would be more reliable; but, SW RAID more flexible. You have to determine your specific requirements. > 4. Are there ways to do full backups of windows boxes and restore a > complete bootable drive from the Linux box? Depends, but this isn't really the job for the RAID storage. RAID storage provides redundant backups for the system supplying the RAID storage and not usually for remote systems. This is for other technology like imaging software and the like. > 5. What is the largest file system Fedora 9 can support? Depends on 64-bit vs 32-bit processors. > 6. Are there performance hits for large file systems? Yes, but like everything you have to weight the good and bad and determine your needs. If keeping backups is really important, performance should be last on your scale... and if performance is an issue, it should be first on your scale... but usually cost goes up with performance these days. > > Thanks so much in advance! > > Mike > > Good Luck Mike, James Kosin > > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
