Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Give thunderbird a try. It looks/works pretty much the same across linux/windows/mac and is all pretty obvious. Thanks, I'll have a look at it. At first glance it still seems to have more bells and whistles than she would be comfortable with. It seems that all those buttons and underlined things are simply confusing for her, and the fewer options that are presented the better. If she would be happy with text only, I would say pine (now re-re-labeled as alpine). I suspect that the people with whom she most wants to exchange mail are not limited to text, so that's likely to be a solution. You might look at the mail component of seamonkey. Mail isn't really simple these days, and hopefully she isn't going to have problems with UCE. alpine and seamonkey have packages. -- Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Bill Davidsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If she would be happy with text only, I would say pine (now re-re-labeled as alpine). I suspect that the people with whom she most wants to exchange mail are not limited to text, so that's likely to be a solution. I'm happy with text only, but I think she may be confused without having all the options and commands up on the screen for her to chose from. Maybe I'll try taping a cheat-sheet to the side of the monitor. You might look at the mail component of seamonkey. Mail isn't really simple these days, and I'm hoping to reduce the main functionality that she needs to see at any point to: read mail reply to read mail compose entirely new message send reply or newly composed message off. The unexpected first problem is that she always seems to forget to actually send it when she is done typing. A reminder pop-up would be nice to have. (you are attempting to close a window but still have an N unsent messages. Send now?) The other problem is that she types when looking at gmail's text boxes, but before she moves the cursor into the box. She normally ends up contaminating the formerly valid To address and the mail later bounces with a no such recipient error. She is 80 though, so I have to cut her quite a bit of slack. I'm just not sure how to explain things differently to make it click. This is all new to me too. I'm hoping that a simpler interface that isn't that busy will keep her from being overwhelmed by all the choices. .. hopefully she isn't going to have problems with UCE. I'm using google mail as her mail server. Google does an excellent job of sorting spam. I've tested their imap and smtp-ssl/tls interface and they seems to work well enough for fedora's evolution to act as a local MUA. I assume all the other mail readers that support imap and smtp-ssl will work too. alpine and seamonkey have packages. Thanks! I'll give them a spin too. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.full-steam.org/ (ipv6-only) You may need to config 6to4 to see the above pages. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wolfgang.rupprecht+gnus200809 at gmail.com writes: Maybe I'll try taping a cheat-sheet to the side of the monitor. OK I sympathise - in my case grandma was 83 when she started out with FC1 and now she is 89! So things have had plenty of time to stabilise! The unexpected first problem is that she always seems to forget to actually send it when she is done typing. A reminder pop-up would be Forgetting to click things, or clicking when the mouse is not in the correct place for focus will happen many times - but over time it will likely occur less. Chances are you will find various incomplete compose windows lying around behind the main mail client window - which won't have been sent. Slowly over time learning to send will become the norm... you will need plenty of patience. You may find that looking at the mouse or keyboard instead of where the cursor is can cause problems - also when referring to move the mouse I found it was clearer to say move the mouse, but watch where the little cursor is - and make sure that the cursor is in that window before you click... or similar helps with understanding. When selecting recipients from a list again a clear explanation to make sure that the correct recipient is selected, but then make sure that the cursor is moved into the text area here before typing your message also helps - but tends to be forgotten regularly at first. In addition moving the cursor to below the signature line seems also to occur - we added some white space in the compose text window to try to avoid that problem - but it still happens even now! Good luck and hope it works in time -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 13:52 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: Give thunderbird a try. I think you can modify Thunderbird's GUI, like Firefox lets you, so you could remove a lot of the GUI buttons. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Tim ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au writes: I think you can modify Thunderbird's GUI, like Firefox lets you, so you could remove a lot of the GUI buttons. Having run a Linux box for an elderly grandma for some years there are some important considerations depending on how previously computer literate the person is or was prior to having the linux box to use. There should be little opportunity to accidentally click anything at all, and also the setup needs to include thinking of how leaning on the ctrl key whilst pressing another key might generate unintended consequences. It can be quite challenging to diagnose what has happened when the person is unable to report exactly what he/she had done to get the mail client into an unusual state! The initial training period can be quite lengthy before reasonable competence may be achieved. Changing fonts for the desktop using the accessibility functions can be important too. Also adjustment of the mouse click/cursor speed could well be an important consideration. In my case kmail has been the mail client used - and this has worked successfully - with remote management of the machine using vnc via an ssh tunnel to repair things on the desktop when accidental collateral damage has been initiated. I did consider Thunderbird (which I use for myself) but one possible problem with TB is that an entire folder can be deleted more easily in TB than in kmail. Of course after the initial training has been completed and a working competence achieved then familiarity means that it is harder to switch to a different mail client later - which might cause reluctance and anxiety for the elderly user in moving to a different client. Whilst not being ageist it is important to recognise the issues involved for someone new to a computer who may be in their 80's or older. However it is very rewarding to see an elderly person being able to keep in touch via email with family and friends at times when using a phone may prove difficult due to hearing problems. It is nice that Fedora/Linux has the facilities to allow a computer to be successfully used for this purpose - the alternative typical OS would in my case have been a nightmare to manage successfully. HTH -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 04:25:47PM +, Mike wrote: Tim ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au writes: I think you can modify Thunderbird's GUI, like Firefox lets you, so you could remove a lot of the GUI buttons. Having run a Linux box for an elderly grandma for some years there are some important considerations depending on how previously computer literate the person is or was prior to having the linux box to use. There should be little opportunity to accidentally click anything at all, In some cases the 'elderly' can type at world class speeds. An ASCII reader like this one mutt or pine should not be ignored. Also Gmail and Yahoo mail can provide very effective interfaces and no need to backup the local system. Accidental clicks apply to the system as well as the mail reader. -- T o m M i t c h e l l Got a great hat... now what. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Does anyone of an *extremely* simple mail reader for f9? Preferably something approaching the proverbial one button program that says doit (click here dummy). I'm trying to get Grandma connected to that new-fangled internet thing and be able to send email to the grandkids and great grandkids. That isn't doing so well. The rater busy gui interfaces that gmail et al present are proving to be far too confusing for her. I haven't tried to introduce her to Evolution, but I'm not even sure I would be able to explain how to get from calendar mode to mail reader mode (or why the modes are hidden in a second-level pull-down.) There must be something simpler out there. Help. Give thunderbird a try. It looks/works pretty much the same across linux/windows/mac and is all pretty obvious. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Give thunderbird a try. It looks/works pretty much the same across linux/windows/mac and is all pretty obvious. Thanks, I'll have a look at it. At first glance it still seems to have more bells and whistles than she would be comfortable with. It seems that all those buttons and underlined things are simply confusing for her, and the fewer options that are presented the better. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.full-steam.org/ (ipv6-only) You may need to config 6to4 to see the above pages. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Give thunderbird a try. It looks/works pretty much the same across linux/windows/mac and is all pretty obvious. Thanks, I'll have a look at it. At first glance it still seems to have more bells and whistles than she would be comfortable with. It seems that all those buttons and underlined things are simply confusing for her, and the fewer options that are presented the better. You can customize the toolbars and layout if you want, but even a casual user will eventually want to use most of what shows by default. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: grandma-rated mail reader
On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 01:52:40PM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: Give thunderbird a try. It looks/works pretty much the same across linux/windows/mac and is all pretty obvious. Do be aware, though--if she gets to the point of trying to forward in-line images, it's still wonky. -- Dave Ihnat [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
