Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Fri, 2008-08-22 at 13:40 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote: > So you use the term "automatic" to mean that > the program should work without user intervention? > There are many programs of this kind, eg the kernel, > but they are not normally described as "automatic". It doesn't matter what you think the word means, the word means what it does. That it sorts out the behind-the-scenes mechanics of an operation by itself. I have no disagreements with your annoyance about its lack of useful documentation and error handling. It doesn't handle errors gracefully, such as notification that "automatic configuration hasn't succeeded, would you like to (a) try again, (b) manually handle things, (c) abort. Hopefully, not like the infamous abort/retry/fail of DOS. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Tim wrote: >> 2) I don't believe NM is "automatic", whatever that means. > > There's no mystery to what the word automatic means. The system sorts > itself out, according to how it was designed. i.e. No manual > intervention required. So you use the term "automatic" to mean that the program should work without user intervention? There are many programs of this kind, eg the kernel, but they are not normally described as "automatic". To my mind, the term "automatic" is just a sales term meaning, "I hope this program will work on any machine and any configuration you throw at it". It seems to be used in the case of NM as an excuse for the complete lack of documentation. I prefer a program which hopefully works without user intervention, but which if it does not work gives the user at least a hint of why it is not working, and what one might do about it. In other words, basic documentation. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Tim: >> It's *always* been the case that automatic /somethings/ aren't >> suitable for all situations (cars with automatic transmissions have >> problems in some conditions, auto-focus lenses make mistakes under >> many conditions, etc.). Timothy Murphy: > 3) If I had an automatic car that did not work > I would not be happy if the garage told me > that the solution was to get another car. With automatic cars one accepts the case that they're not always going to be the best thing, and that occasionally one has to manually select some gears (and I don't just mean forward/drive or reverse). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Timothy Murphy: > 1) NM is actually working fine for me. Mostly it is here, though it didn't on one computer. > 2) I don't believe NM is "automatic", whatever that means. There's no mystery to what the word automatic means. The system sorts itself out, according to how it was designed. i.e. No manual intervention required. > It is pretty obvious if you look at it > that NM stores quite a lot of information. Doesn't preclude it things from automatic, that's part of its automatic system. There's all sorts of things that are (or can be) automatic, as far as the user's concerned (DHCP network address assignments, mounting of media, etc.). For the most part, these generally work for a lot of people. They don't work for everybody or all circumstances, that's why there's alternatives. > 3) If I had an automatic car that did not work > I would not be happy if the garage told me > that the solution was to get another car. There's an entirely different situation to taking a car back to just using some other software. Even more so when you've already got it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Tim wrote: >> it's rather annoying to be told something works automatically >> if in fact it doesn't work for you. >> It doesn't leave much room for advice on what to do about it. > > The answer's rather obvious: If it doesn't work for you, then use > something *else* that's not automatic. It's *always* been the case that > automatic /somethings/ aren't suitable for all situations (cars with > automatic transmissions have problems in some conditions, auto-focus > lenses make mistakes under many conditions, etc.). 1) NM is actually working fine for me. 2) I don't believe NM is "automatic", whatever that means. It is pretty obvious if you look at it that NM stores quite a lot of information. Also the minuscule NM documentation suggests that it does look at /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ . 3) If I had an automatic car that did not work I would not be happy if the garage told me that the solution was to get another car. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 18:31 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote: > it's rather annoying to be told something works automatically > if in fact it doesn't work for you. > It doesn't leave much room for advice on what to do about it. The answer's rather obvious: If it doesn't work for you, then use something *else* that's not automatic. It's *always* been the case that automatic /somethings/ aren't suitable for all situations (cars with automatic transmissions have problems in some conditions, auto-focus lenses make mistakes under many conditions, etc.). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Jeff Spaleta wrote: > NM does most of what it does automatically. But it's rather annoying to be told something works automatically if in fact it doesn't work for you. It doesn't leave much room for advice on what to do about it. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED -- for now]
On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 15:23 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 13:09 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi Aaron et al; > > > > This is my last post (for a while) on this subject. Actually the > > answers are quite simple. Just after spending $45 for "Understanding > > Linux Network Internals" (but not yet delivered) it came to me what > > everyone was saying. > > > > Below I have tried out my own explanation. No response is required > > other than to add to the conversation if you want. I am going to > > spend > > a week or so diving into the whole network question. When I come up > > for > > air I might have a question or two. > > > > By the way, there is one thing I do NOT have an answer to. Several > > people, Jeff in particular, have made reference to the info, settings > > etc. that are in gconf. I have searched /etc/gconf, ~/.gconf and > > gconf-editor and can find no network or NetworkManager data or keys > > whatsoever. If I am looking in the wrong place or for the wrong info, > > please tell me. If it should be there, please point to name or tree > > so > > I can find it. Help me fix it if I reply (in a new thread) that I > > definitely do NOT have such data. > I can't find all the connection activity I had found previously but in > gconf-editor there is a database called: > system->networking->connections which contains subdirectories that > contain some connection info. And gnome-keyring-manager will allow you to see the passwds. -- === Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. -- H.H. Williams === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 15:55 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Or am I misunderstanding something? > > > I think you should get acquainted with the NM roadmap, specifically > the work concerning how user connections are going to be publishable > as system wide settings so NM can bring up interfaces at boot > > And if you are KDE user then you should check in with how kde4.1 plans > to interfaces with NM. I'm not a kde user, so I can't tell you. All I > can tell you is that the release notes for kde 4 and the betas leading > up to 4.1 have mentioned NM integration. There's absolutely no reason > that each and every desktop that wants to can implement its on user > session daemon to communicate with the system level daemon via D-Bus. > I'm pretty sure for KDE 4.x there is something native to fill the role > that nm-applet does. But since I'm not a KDE users I'm not going to > pretend to understand it to the point of explaining it. Fair enough. It's just that your previous posts imply that this has something to do with NM itself, not nm-applet. However I see that although NM is a Gnome project it is designed to allow a variety of "info-managers" including GConf, LDAP, KConfig etc. See http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration I'll need to read more to understand how this is going to work when the same machine is running several different desktops at the same time. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or am I misunderstanding something? I think you should get acquainted with the NM roadmap, specifically the work concerning how user connections are going to be publishable as system wide settings so NM can bring up interfaces at boot And if you are KDE user then you should check in with how kde4.1 plans to interfaces with NM. I'm not a kde user, so I can't tell you. All I can tell you is that the release notes for kde 4 and the betas leading up to 4.1 have mentioned NM integration. There's absolutely no reason that each and every desktop that wants to can implement its on user session daemon to communicate with the system level daemon via D-Bus. I'm pretty sure for KDE 4.x there is something native to fill the role that nm-applet does. But since I'm not a KDE users I'm not going to pretend to understand it to the point of explaining it. -jef . -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
Thanks for your time and thoughtful explanation Marko; On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 20:49 +, Marko Vojinovic wrote: > Ok, can I give it a try to help clear things up? Not that I am an expert on > the subject, but hopefully... :-) Somebody please correct me if I get > something wrong here. [BIG SNIP] I have copied and pasted your explanation into the notes I am keeping. You come close to describing what I have come to understand over the last week. It would probably been more clear if I had had system => networking => connections showing in my gconf-editor. Now I have to figure out how to fix that. I think I will start with a yum remove and yum install gconf-editor. I am not sure whether networking data was in there originally and got removed by my messing around, or was never there. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED -- for now]
Thank you very much Aaron; I am not going crazy! On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 15:23 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 13:09 -0400, William Case wrote: [snip] > I can't find all the connection activity I had found previously but in > gconf-editor there is a database called: > system->networking->connections which contains subdirectories that > contain some connection info. My gconf-editor has 'system' which includes things like dns_sd; gstreamer; http_proxy; etc. But definitely,no => networking; and no => networking => connections. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
Ok, can I give it a try to help clear things up? Not that I am an expert on the subject, but hopefully... :-) Somebody please correct me if I get something wrong here. When we speak of "network", there are several layers at work here. First, there is hardware. Cables, network cards at their ends and such. Your particular host machine may have two network cards, for example (wired and wireless, typically for a laptop). These network cards, the *hardware*, are called "network interfaces". They are present in your computer whether you like it or not, and can have a "state", for example they can be "active" or "inactive" and such. Next there is the kernel. It has drivers and other software to communicate with other computers using the network cards, ie. interfaces. This software (inside the kernel) encompasses various protocols, firewall, settings, parameters etc. You may wish to take a look at /proc/net for a feel of it. The kernel is responsible for actual communication, it holds inside the settings such as IP number of each interface, its current state and such. Then there are various utilities that are used to setup and configure these settings in the kernel. It goes along the way of conversation like: utility: "Please, could you set the IP for eth0 interface to be 10.0.0.1?" kernel: "Ok, it is set, from now on eth0 operates with this IP." utility: "Please, could you drop any udp packets coming from 1.2.3.4 if they are not a response to an outgoing connection?" kernel: "Ok, the appropriate firewall rule is set up." utility: "Please, could you tell me if wlan0 interface is active and configured?" kernel: "No, the wlan0 interface is not active, but is configured." (I hope you get the idea.) Various utilities are used to set up various aspects of communication. These utilities include ifconfig, ip, iptables, arp, rarp, tc, and so on. These utilities also have appropriate config files which they consult when asking the kernel to do this or that. Some of these config files reside under /etc/sysconfig/network*, while other reside elsewhere (for example, resolv.conf resides in /etc). Now here is the catch. There may be more than one utility to perform the same configuration of network interfaces. These utilities that do equivalent job may have config files that differ or contradict each other. This means that *only one* of those should be used, in order to avoid potential havoc. At this point let me simplify a bit --- there are basically *two* utilities that do this on a Fedora system. One is the script /etc/init.d/network (go take a look at it) which does its job by looking at appropriate config files (those in /etc/sysconfig/network*) and calls some executables (like /sbin/ip) to do the job. Another is the NetworkManager, which has its config files elsewhere and does all on its own or uses other executables (or maybe the same?). Now having, say, two network interfaces on the system, you may choose to configure for example eth0 using the /etc/init.d/network, while wlan0 using NetworkManager. This is ok, as long as you say to *both* of these services to "ignore the other interface". As for /etc/init.d/network, you tell it to ignore wlan0 by starting system-config-network gui and clicking appropriate checkmark, or manually editing a file under /etc/sysconfig/network*. As for NetworkManager I don't know, but guess that there should be some way to tell it to ignore some interface (btw, the system-config-network gui has *absolutely nothing* to do with NetworkManager --- it is merely a gui for the files under /etc/sysconfig/network* which NM doesn't use at all). Given all this, if you configure everything properly, you would want *both* NetworkManager service and network service active under system-config-services. But it is usually easier to configure only one of them for all interfaces and shut down the other, in order to avoid confusion. Which one you would want to use is up to your preference and needs, because the two tools use different paradigms to function and one may be better suited over the other for a particular task. Hence both are included in Fedora. Having all that in mind, you should be aware that there is no daemon to control the network --- the kernel does this, and these utilities merely communicate to the kernel to ask for this or that behavior. This means that you can use one tool (NM) to configure eth0 interface, and then use another (service network status) to ask the kernel for the status of eth0. This is why the sequence # service network stop # service network status gives you the output that seems confusing at first glance. The NetworkManager has configured and activated eth0, so it is active no matter that service network is stopped. Service network is probably configured not to touch eth0 (because it is serviced by NM) so when you say "stop" it doesn't stop eth0, but rather ignores it. This is the action of the appropriate
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED -- for now]
On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 13:09 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Aaron et al; > > This is my last post (for a while) on this subject. Actually the > answers are quite simple. Just after spending $45 for "Understanding > Linux Network Internals" (but not yet delivered) it came to me what > everyone was saying. > > Below I have tried out my own explanation. No response is required > other than to add to the conversation if you want. I am going to > spend > a week or so diving into the whole network question. When I come up > for > air I might have a question or two. > > By the way, there is one thing I do NOT have an answer to. Several > people, Jeff in particular, have made reference to the info, settings > etc. that are in gconf. I have searched /etc/gconf, ~/.gconf and > gconf-editor and can find no network or NetworkManager data or keys > whatsoever. If I am looking in the wrong place or for the wrong info, > please tell me. If it should be there, please point to name or tree > so > I can find it. Help me fix it if I reply (in a new thread) that I > definitely do NOT have such data. I can't find all the connection activity I had found previously but in gconf-editor there is a database called: system->networking->connections which contains subdirectories that contain some connection info. -- === Life is a sexually transmitted disease with 100% mortality. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED -- for now]
Hi Aaron et al; This is my last post (for a while) on this subject. Actually the answers are quite simple. Just after spending $45 for "Understanding Linux Network Internals" (but not yet delivered) it came to me what everyone was saying. Below I have tried out my own explanation. No response is required other than to add to the conversation if you want. I am going to spend a week or so diving into the whole network question. When I come up for air I might have a question or two. By the way, there is one thing I do NOT have an answer to. Several people, Jeff in particular, have made reference to the info, settings etc. that are in gconf. I have searched /etc/gconf, ~/.gconf and gconf-editor and can find no network or NetworkManager data or keys whatsoever. If I am looking in the wrong place or for the wrong info, please tell me. If it should be there, please point to name or tree so I can find it. Help me fix it if I reply (in a new thread) that I definitely do NOT have such data. On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 08:46 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 23:35 -0400, William Case wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:28 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:11 -0400, William Case wrote: [snip] > > This is a hard question to answer. network uses the ifcfg-x files > in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/. > NM spreads the information over a collection of programs. wpa-client, > dns, dhclient,nm-applet and their associated config files which are > automatically created. > > Truthfully, I am not sure where all the configurations are stored > however in trying to answer one of your previous questions (I don't > blame you). I wish I knew how I did it. One problem is I knew where > these were in previous versions of Fedora but I can't find it in F9. > > I am not sure that the other responses to your question on the list make > it any clearer. > > For definitive information sign up for [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am going to sign up today. What I have discovered -- I think: There are two entities -- init.d scripts; one called 'network' and one called 'NetworkManager'. (entities might equal objects, but never having done C++ or other OOp, I hesitate to use technical terms.) The 'network' script references the various /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts to get all its parts and pieces running during initialization. The 'NetworkManager' script references /etc/sysconfig/networking which in turn has subdirectories ./devices and ./profiles. ./devices has a copy of 'ifcfg-eth0'; ./profiles/default has copies of 'hosts' 'ifcfg-eth0' and 'resolv.conf'. Obviously, there is room to dig a lot deeper into the kernel and the various scripts. Some concerns I have are: * Not nearly enough clear and detailed manuals, help text and tutorials; particularly for NetworkManager. * Too much overlap in the names used for various things; too much reliance on the use of words that have a common generic meaning as well as a computer specific meaning. * The copying of certain files to a new directory. That strikes me as a bit of an unreliable hack. Links at least would have been explanatory if the scripts used were exactly the same and would remain identical, a new name would be preferable if they weren't. I currently have two or three copies of most networking files or scripts. * It would be nice to be able to see the kernel contents of both (and/or other) network managers in a cat /sys/... virtual file system. * Each network management system should be completely shielded from each other so that there are various options and choices of which system to use and how. It doesn't have to be one or the other. * The use of the NetworkManager gui is unclear. As simple as it seems to an experienced user, for new users, every data entry field should be clearly and exactly explained. If you are a beginner, networking contains many difficult concepts to grasp. That's where I now stand on this subject. I intend to find out a lot more. Thanks to everyone for their patience and help over the last week or so. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 23:29 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Patrick; > > As I said I am now satisfied that a conflict between some entity called > 'network' or NM is the cause of my problems. So some of this discussion > is a bit moot. > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 20:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:41 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that > > > 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is > > > sticking it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, > > > 'network' is not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? > > > > Bill, if your question is "why do I get a network status report when I > > invoke 'service network status'?" the answer is that the status is > > simply a report on the state of the various interfaces. It has nothing > > whatever to do with you using system-config-network. > > > It seems that the word 'network' is being used in two different > senses. At least two, correct. > If I look at system-config-services I see what looks like an entity > (program, application or process) that can be enabled, disabled, > started, stopped or restarted as can its alternate NetworkManager. I > supposed that that entity (network) was what I was looking at with the > command service network status. To me "entity" implies a single thing, which it clearly isn't. The *network service* is a set of related "entities", and if you look at system-config-network this is fairly explicit. > But it seems with the service network status command the word network is > simply a generalized reference to any network. So be it, but it is > confusing. No, it's not even that. The status command shows you the state of your network interfaces, that's all. It says nothing about the various networks you are connected to (that would be another meaning of "network"). > If this second meaning is true, it would make far more sense if > 'network' was not listed as running in system-config-services. Or had > another name such as 'default_networking' (poor choice but ...) that > would assign some definition and distinction to it. "networking" would be clearer perhaps. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 23:35 -0400, William Case wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:28 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:11 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > > > > It lists 'Wired Network' and ' . System eth0' as the Access Points. > > > > > > > Which tells me it detects no access points in the neighborhood. Do you > > have any and do they have eessids? > > I know of no wireless access points in the neighbourhood. > > Aaron, in an earlier post you said "If you use NM then > system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the > scripts for network." How can I find out exactly which scripts NM > controls for the network? I am assuming the antecedent for the 'It' > pronoun quoted above is the word 'NM'. This is a hard question to answer. network uses the ifcfg-x files in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/. NM spreads the information over a collection of programs. wpa-client, dns, dhclient,nm-applet and their associated config files which are automatically created. Truthfully, I am not sure where all the configurations are stored however in trying to answer one of your previous questions (I don't blame you). I wish I knew how I did it. One problem is I knew where these were in previous versions of Fedora but I can't find it in F9. I am not sure that the other responses to your question on the list make it any clearer. For definitive information sign up for [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- === I never pray before meals -- my mom's a good cook. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 19:52 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > You already found the connections area under gconf...NM holds > information in there about connections its name in there. Somewhat OT, but is anyone else slightly concerned about the fact that NM seems to be dependant on gconf, i.e. Gnome? I fail to see how the underlying plumbing of network setup relates to a specific desktop, especially when the same plumbing is needed even if there is no desktop. It seems like a very Windows-like view of the world to me. Or am I misunderstanding something? poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 20:46 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:28 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi Matthew; > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > > system-config-network. > > > > They *are set* in system-config-network. > > Sorry if I wasn't clear. In system-config-network, there is a check-box > for each interface indicating whether it is controlled by > NetworkManager. If you have NetworkManager service running and the > network service off, you want that box checked. If you have > NetworkManager off and network running, you want that box unchecked. > I use NM and that box ix not checked and does not have to be. There is no real reason to use system-config-network when using NM. -- === job Placement, n.: Telling your boss what he can do with your job. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Matthew Saltzman clemson.edu> writes: > Sorry if I wasn't clear. In system-config-network, there is a check-box > for each interface indicating whether it is controlled by > NetworkManager. If you have NetworkManager service running and the > network service off, you want that box checked. If you have > NetworkManager off and network running, you want that box unchecked. Just to add another twist to the options Of course you can define the interfaces in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ ifcfg- and then start/run these using service network start chkconfig network on But not have NetworkManager running or you can service network stop chkconfig network off and then use NetworkManager during a logged in session to control connections. I have an alternative way of running my wireless network on a laptop which I want to have the wireless running before a user logs in... that way I can log in wirelessly and do updates etc without the extra load from an X desktop. How I do this is to run wpa_supplicant directly, after setting up the config files /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf and /etc/sysconfig/wpa_supplicant and then have NetworkManager not running and do service wpa_supplicant start chkconfig wpa_supplicant on This is also useful if administering a laptop for a user who knows little about networking - and wpa_supplicant can be set up to run with local wpa encrypted LANs, or wireless networks elsewhere or open networks all governed by sets of lines defining the networks in /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_suppliant.conf So there are three choices - though for running wpa encrypted wireless I had problems trying with the "network" service and could only get things to work with NetworkManager and wpa_supplicant -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > network configuration manually. If you want to manually configure > things, then stop using automatic configuration systems, completely. The NM in F9 supports manual configuration through the applet... right click...edit connections. You can setup both wired and wireless 'connections' manually. I've never had to use it. But i just did it just now to manually set an ip for this machine different from the one my dhcp server is configured to give me and it works. You can setup a static ip.. you can setup a dns server you can even setup the domainname to search. Once manually configured that information is stored in ,gconf down under .system/networking/connections for that user associated with a connection name. You select the connection as named from the list in the applet...and NM will use those manual settings. If the manual setting UI is confusing, and you have some thoughts on how it should be rearranged more intutively, file bugs upstream. If people want to screw around with the gconf keys instead of using the UI...and need documentation on how to generate the gconf files necessary to do this by hand...that is something to take up with the upstream project most likely via its dedicated mailing list or irc channel. If people want to see nm-connection-editor grow cmdline support that is also something to take up with upstream. -jef -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
From: Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 1. If you have a DHCP server on the network, then *IT* will configure > your network, "automatically". There's no client-side > user-configuration involved with that, the server holds the > configuration data. Yes, it is possible for a DHCP client to have > overriding local configuration, but network manager doesn't seem to > support it, and that sort of thing's a kludge to try and get around > problems with badly set up DHCP servers, which would be better sorted > out by reconfiguring the server. Unfortunately, not everything can be specified via DHCP. The one in particular I need a dhclient exit hook for is to fix the "search" directive in the resolv.conf file. I found it absolutely incredible that NetworkManager decided it just had to invent completely new (undocumented) ways to run hooks instead of using the (moderately) documented hooks already described in the dhclient documentation. So you can have perfectly operating dhclient hooks, but they won't work in NetworkManager because it is far too "improved" to be anything like backward compatible :-(. Fortunately the "network" service will also configure your system from a DHCP server, and it still works the same way it always did, using the same dhclient hooks that always worked before. (I just wonder how long fedora will continue to ship both services). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Jeff Spaleta: >> You continue to confuse yourself. NM does most of what it does >> automatically. William Case: > In computers, nothing does most of what it does automagically. I wish people would stop using that bogus term. Apart from it being a stupid word, there's nothing "magic" about it, at all. What Jeff said was "automatically". The system (i.e. the whole thing, both client and server, in combination) sorts itself out, according to how it's designed. That's "automatic". There's no more *magic* involved here than there is in automatic transmission cars. It does what it does in the way that it's been engineered to work. Getting back to network manager, there's two basic ways you can expect it to sort out a network, that work fairly well at the moment: 1. If you have a DHCP server on the network, then *IT* will configure your network, "automatically". There's no client-side user-configuration involved with that, the server holds the configuration data. Yes, it is possible for a DHCP client to have overriding local configuration, but network manager doesn't seem to support it, and that sort of thing's a kludge to try and get around problems with badly set up DHCP servers, which would be better sorted out by reconfiguring the server. 2. If you have no DHCP server, then there's the zeroconf (aka bonjour or link-local) scheme, where each client assigns itself a unique IP, at random, after first checking that nobody else on the same LAN is already using that address. Again, there's no real client-side configuration for this, it's "automatic". Neither of those methods should really have users trying to diddle the network configuration manually. If you want to manually configure things, then stop using automatic configuration systems, completely. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ uname -r 2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Hi Jeff; On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 19:52 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM, William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Aaron, in an earlier post you said "If you use NM then > > system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the > > scripts for network." How can I find out exactly which scripts NM > > controls for the network? I am assuming the antecedent for the 'It' > > pronoun quoted above is the word 'NM'. > > > You continue to confuse yourself. NM does most of what it does > automatically. In computers, nothing does most of what it does automagically. It does things because it has electricity, transistors, cpus, memory, compiled code, code in kernel space and code in user space. If a process calls on other code or scripts, it still exists as a separate entity that starts several processes. It may do it in one way when it is just considered the 'network' or an other way when it it is called NewtworkManager. > In Fedora 9 it does expose some ability to support > static ip addresses but i havent used that particular feature so I can > not point to exactly where it holds that information. > > For typical uses, where NM is talking to a dhcp server... NM doesn't > hold need to hold much of anything with regard to configuration...so > you are looking for configuration files which don't typically > exist...a futile effort. > > You already found the connections area under gconf...NM holds > information in there about connections its name in there. I did NOT find any references to NM or connections in .gconfig or gconfig-editor. If I had found them, that would probably have satisfied me. I responded to your post a couple of days ago saying exactly that. > -jef"These conversations are proof that s-c-network and the legacy > network service should be removed by default in F10 for at least the > Desktop spin"spaleta > Paying attention to manuals and help documentation which explains what is happening would go a lot further than the proposed M$ solution of hiding things from the user. For example, some reference to netfs and how that virtual net file system might be used and viewed would go along way. There is no need to remove services that still have some use to some people. Implying that people are too stupid to understand is an attitude that the Open Source movement has eshewed. Open Source by its very definition assumes people can come to understand. My experience is that people who can't explain things; can't do so because they don't themselves really understand. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM, William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Aaron, in an earlier post you said "If you use NM then > system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the > scripts for network." How can I find out exactly which scripts NM > controls for the network? I am assuming the antecedent for the 'It' > pronoun quoted above is the word 'NM'. You continue to confuse yourself. NM does most of what it does automatically. In Fedora 9 it does expose some ability to support static ip addresses but i havent used that particular feature so I can not point to exactly where it holds that information. For typical uses, where NM is talking to a dhcp server... NM doesn't hold need to hold much of anything with regard to configuration...so you are looking for configuration files which don't typically exist...a futile effort. You already found the connections area under gconf...NM holds information in there about connections its name in there. .I'm not really sure what else you are expecting to find. If you want to know how NM works in a deep way you are going to have to go to the upstream project communication channels and try to suck information out of the developers. For the end-users cases that NM is meant to be used for, it is meant to be interacted with via the applet UI, so for most of us who use it we don't have a need to go poking around at its gconf keys or any other configs. When it works.. it works. And for you specifically, your problems have been that you have gone messing around with configs unnecessarily. NM was working for you, and the last time we spoke you confirmed for me that it was working for you again. If you keep running system-config-network you are going to just break things..again. -jef"These conversations are proof that s-c-network and the legacy network service should be removed by default in F10 for at least the Desktop spin"spaleta -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:28 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:11 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > It lists 'Wired Network' and ' . System eth0' as the Access Points. > > > > Which tells me it detects no access points in the neighborhood. Do you > have any and do they have eessids? I know of no wireless access points in the neighbourhood. Aaron, in an earlier post you said "If you use NM then system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the scripts for network." How can I find out exactly which scripts NM controls for the network? I am assuming the antecedent for the 'It' pronoun quoted above is the word 'NM'. > -- > === > I know you're in search of yourself, I just haven't seen you anywhere. > === > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
Hi Patrick; As I said I am now satisfied that a conflict between some entity called 'network' or NM is the cause of my problems. So some of this discussion is a bit moot. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 20:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:41 -0400, William Case wrote: > > So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that > > 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is > > sticking it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, > > 'network' is not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? > > Bill, if your question is "why do I get a network status report when I > invoke 'service network status'?" the answer is that the status is > simply a report on the state of the various interfaces. It has nothing > whatever to do with you using system-config-network. > It seems that the word 'network' is being used in two different senses. If I look at system-config-services I see what looks like an entity (program, application or process) that can be enabled, disabled, started, stopped or restarted as can its alternate NetworkManager. I supposed that that entity (network) was what I was looking at with the command service network status. But it seems with the service network status command the word network is simply a generalized reference to any network. So be it, but it is confusing. If this second meaning is true, it would make far more sense if 'network' was not listed as running in system-config-services. Or had another name such as 'default_networking' (poor choice but ...) that would assign some definition and distinction to it. > If that's not your question, I'm at a loss to understand what it is. > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Matthew we seem to be talking at cross purposes. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 20:46 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:28 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi Matthew; > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > > system-config-network. > > > > They *are set* in system-config-network. > > Sorry if I wasn't clear. In system-config-network, there is a check-box > for each interface indicating whether it is controlled by > NetworkManager. If you have NetworkManager service running and the > network service off, you want that box checked. If you have > NetworkManager off and network running, you want that box unchecked. > I just re-opened 'root]$ system-config-network'. The Network Configuration gui popped up. On the devices tab which is the device interface, Profile is checkmarked; Status is active; Device is eth0 Nickname is eth0; Type is Ethernet. Hardware tab info is correct; DNS tab info is correct; Hosts tab only shows loopback data after I check mark 'show loopback'. Active profile is listed as Common. My NetworkManager is enabled, running and configured to runlevel 2,3,4,5. The network service is disabled but running and configured to no runlevels at all. > > > > -- > Matthew Saltzman > > Clemson University Math Sciences > mjs AT clemson DOT edu > http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:28 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Matthew; > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > system-config-network. > > They *are set* in system-config-network. Sorry if I wasn't clear. In system-config-network, there is a check-box for each interface indicating whether it is controlled by NetworkManager. If you have NetworkManager service running and the network service off, you want that box checked. If you have NetworkManager off and network running, you want that box unchecked. > -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Math Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:41 -0400, William Case wrote: > So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that > 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is > sticking it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, > 'network' is not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? Bill, if your question is "why do I get a network status report when I invoke 'service network status'?" the answer is that the status is simply a report on the state of the various interfaces. It has nothing whatever to do with you using system-config-network. If that's not your question, I'm at a loss to understand what it is. Cheers poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > Since I'm not aware of having responded to you before now on this topic, > I don't understand the sarcasm. my apologies. was not meant as sarcasm. only that if william had run 'locate', he would have found scripts and rest related to 'network' and by looking over scripts, and rest, he would have a better idea of how things relate. - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIp2Ll+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAjFEAKCyupsQWOT4ukJNLTgmdbAQ40mmUQCeKtFC CvCewJVNj7xLAT/LM3AbuO4= =GTnB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:11 -0400, William Case wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:02 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > Hi; > > > > > > NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes. > > > > > > * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail > > > (looping ??). > > > * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution > > > properly. > > > * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be > > > in my gconf-editor. They are not. > > > * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating > > > properly after turning NetworkManager off and on. > > I have not had the problems above. Although right now I can't find my > > keys . I have seen them in earlier versions of NM, and they must be here > > since the connections are made. > > > > > > No you should run one of them but not both of them. Do you see a > > nm-applet in the upper right panel. What do you see if you left click on > > it. You should see the available APs. > It lists 'Wired Network' and ' . System eth0' as the Access Points. > Which tells me it detects no access points in the neighborhood. Do you have any and do they have eessids? -- === I know you're in search of yourself, I just haven't seen you anywhere. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
William Case wrote: > > So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that > 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is sticking > it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, 'network' is > not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? > It is handy for people that need the network to be up when no-one is logged in. On my desktop, I use the network service instead of hte NetworkManager service because there are a couple of cron jobs that need the network connection. I may not be logged in all the time, but the computer normally runs 24/7. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:28 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Matthew; > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > system-config-network. > > They *are set* in system-config-network. They don't have to be if network is not being used. -- === Why would anyone want to be called "Later"? === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:41 -0400, William Case wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:57 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:10 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking. > [snip] > > To ensure that the network service does not run at boot, run 'chkconfig > > network off' as root. If the network service is stopped, it may still > > report active interfaces, even if they are being managed by > > NetworkManager. > > Ran 'chkconfig' etc.. It reports everything at every run level is off. > > So I can safely say it is not having an effect on anything and that any > issues lie elsewhere. The following question is just a 'by-the-way' > curiosity. > > So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that > 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is sticking > it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, 'network' is > not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? > It can be removed but turning it off with chkconfig will keep it from running at boot, which should be sufficient to keep it from bothering you. -- === You don't have to explain something you never said. -- Calvin Coolidge === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 22:48 +, g wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey > > the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course > > there is a set of things collectively called "network service". > > which is why i suggested that he run 'locate network|grep -v icons'. Where did you say that? I see no other message from you on this thread, including in the archives. Perhaps you mailed him privately. > this would have shown him just how much is related to 'network'. > > but what do i know. i am just a 'newbie' who has been using linux from > time of slackware release on cd, before there was a 'redhat'. Since I'm not aware of having responded to you before now on this topic, I don't understand the sarcasm. (Linux user since kernel 1.95, around early 1996 I think, and just as fallible as ever.) poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:10 -0400, William Case wrote: > Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking. > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > [snip] > > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > system-config-network. > > network won't turn off. > > The command line shows: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > ]# service network stop > Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] > Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] > > and then; > NetworkManager's gui shows warning 'disconnected'; does its grind; > produces a dialogue (tool tip thingy) that says I am reconnected. > > If I check, I get: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot. To stop network from running aftere reboot you must run: chkconfig network off -- === Heard that the next Space Shuttle is supposed to carry several Guernsey cows? It's gonna be the herd shot 'round the world. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Sorry Patrick; As they say in the political world, 'I mis-spoke'. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 18:01 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > You mean you moved the /sbin/ifconfig command to somewhere else? I can't > see any sane reason for doing that. It's definitely a sledgehammer way > of preventing it from being executed, but I'd say it's likely to cause > trouble (e.g. in scripts which are trying to run it). > I moved aside dhclient-eth0.conf & dhcp6c.conf Those were the files that I was told were causing problems. > Note also that any earlier execution of ifconfig will have remained in > force unless you also rebooted or did something specific to change it. > -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey > the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course > there is a set of things collectively called "network service". which is why i suggested that he run 'locate network|grep -v icons'. this would have shown him just how much is related to 'network'. but what do i know. i am just a 'newbie' who has been using linux from time of slackware release on cd, before there was a 'redhat'. > > poc > - -- tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIp1k++C4Bj9Rkw/wRAvMjAJ9rxOisrJY6qI9KOT/mxEzhAqxaowCgj7ck 7hSbINE6s+EcTZa9D/je1yE= =8ndP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ?? [SOLVED] kinda
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:57 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:10 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking. [snip] > To ensure that the network service does not run at boot, run 'chkconfig > network off' as root. If the network service is stopped, it may still > report active interfaces, even if they are being managed by > NetworkManager. Ran 'chkconfig' etc.. It reports everything at every run level is off. So I can safely say it is not having an effect on anything and that any issues lie elsewhere. The following question is just a 'by-the-way' curiosity. So why can't I get rid of 'network' entirely? I understand that 'network' is not an application to be removed, but something is sticking it in the list of services. With NetworkManager running, 'network' is not a service I need. So why confuse the issue? -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:50 -0400, William Case wrote: > On advice in an earlier thread, it was suggested that ifconfig was > interfering and that I had no use for it. That I should move it aside > so that it would not be found. I moved it to a dir I keep in root for > such things -- /root/MoveAsides. You mean you moved the /sbin/ifconfig command to somewhere else? I can't see any sane reason for doing that. It's definitely a sledgehammer way of preventing it from being executed, but I'd say it's likely to cause trouble (e.g. in scripts which are trying to run it). (It is occasionally valid to move a command to one side and put a surrogate in its place, such as a shell script that simply logs its arguments and then executes the original, all this for debugging purposes, but I don't get the impression that that's what you're doing). Note also that any earlier execution of ifconfig will have remained in force unless you also rebooted or did something specific to change it. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:02 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi; > > > > NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes. > > > > * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail > > (looping ??). > > * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution > > properly. > > * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be > > in my gconf-editor. They are not. > > * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating > > properly after turning NetworkManager off and on. > I have not had the problems above. Although right now I can't find my > keys . I have seen them in earlier versions of NM, and they must be here > since the connections are made. > > > No you should run one of them but not both of them. Do you see a > nm-applet in the upper right panel. What do you see if you left click on > it. You should see the available APs. It lists 'Wired Network' and ' . System eth0' as the Access Points. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? > > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the > system-config-network command. If you use NM then system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the scripts for network. > > > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those > > questions even relevant? > > The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various > device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such > as DHCP service run in user space. > > > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends. > > Because it's not a single process. > > poc > -- === Rule of Life #1 -- Never get separated from your luggage. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi; > > NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes. > > * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail > (looping ??). > * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution > properly. > * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be > in my gconf-editor. They are not. > * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating > properly after turning NetworkManager off and on. I have not had the problems above. Although right now I can't find my keys . I have seen them in earlier versions of NM, and they must be here since the connections are made. > > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? No you should run one of them but not both of them. Do you see a nm-applet in the upper right panel. What do you see if you left click on it. You should see the available APs. > > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those > questions even relevant? > > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends. > > The command line shows: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > ]# service network stop > Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] > Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] > > and then; > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > There is no Fedora manual or 'Help' for NetworkManager > > 'man NetworkManager' produces only: > "DESCRIPTION >The NetworkManager daemon attempts to keep an active > network connection available at all times. The point of > NetworkManager is to make networking configuration and setup > as painless and automatic as possible. If using DHCP, > NetworkManager is intended to replace default routes,obtain > IP addresses from a DHCP server, and change nameservers whenever > it sees fit, with the aim of making networking Just Work." > > nm-tool shows me no more info than is available in the NM gui. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/NetworkManager simply tells me how > to configure for pam. My pam.d/gdm is > auth optionalpam_gnome_keyring.so > session optionalpam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start > > googled sites gives info for gentoo and mandrivia only. > > I am stumped. I will re-ask on the NetworkManager list, but first I > would like to straighten out in my mind the network vs NetworkManger > services thing. > > -- > Regards Bill; > Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 > Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 > -- === Things equal to nothing else are equal to each other. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:52 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > William Case wrote: > > > The way "service network status" works is that it uses the ip > command to get the list of interfaces that are up. So the list will > be the same if they are controlled by the network or the > NetworkManager service. Or if you brought them up manually using the > ifconfig command.) > Ok Mikkel. that makes sense. Then why is my system-config-services showing network at all; much less as disabled, but running and it won't stop. Or, do I have some misinformation here -- that 'network' shouldn't be showing in system-config-services if NetworkManager is enabled and running? I was told (or read) that a couple of weeks ago!! > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:10 -0400, William Case wrote: > Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking. > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > [snip] > > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > system-config-network. > > network won't turn off. > > The command line shows: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > ]# service network stop > Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] > Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] > > and then; > NetworkManager's gui shows warning 'disconnected'; does its grind; > produces a dialogue (tool tip thingy) that says I am reconnected. > > If I check, I get: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot. To ensure that the network service does not run at boot, run 'chkconfig network off' as root. If the network service is stopped, it may still report active interfaces, even if they are being managed by NetworkManager. -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Math Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
William Case wrote: > > If I check, I get: > > ]# service network status > Configured devices: > lo eth0 > Currently active devices: > lo eth0 > > And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot. The way "service network status" works is that it uses the ip command to get the list of interfaces that are up. So the list will be the same if they are controlled by the network or the NetworkManager service. Or if you brought them up manually using the ifconfig command.) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:03 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:25 -0400, William Case wrote: > > Hi Patrick; > > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > > > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > [snip] [snip] > > Bill, we may be going off at a tangent here since I really haven't > attempted to answer your original question, but the interfaces are > always going to be there (assuming the drivers are loaded). What changes > is whether they are marked UP or not. The state of each interface is > internal to the kernel, all the various commands do is manipulate it or > report it. > > Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "removed the ifconfig". On advice in an earlier thread, it was suggested that ifconfig was interfering and that I had no use for it. That I should move it aside so that it would not be found. I moved it to a dir I keep in root for such things -- /root/MoveAsides. That action did get NM reworking, but the service called 'network' remains running apparently. My problems are all those annoying little gnome issues I listed in my original post. All of which seemed to have started when I turned NM off then on again. My main objective is to get my networking working properly with no extra programs or processes hanging around. I want -- need -- to start poking around my network setup to learn networking. I want to make sure that there is a direct correlation between my poking and any network breakdowns so I can trace back what I shouldn't have done. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 6:28 PM, William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Matthew; > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > > system-config-network. > > They *are set* in system-config-network. > > And what about NetworkManager-openvpn ? I have it installed but when I try to configure a vpn connection the setup only shows a vpnc option. Why openvpn does not show up? -- Paulo Roma Cavalcanti LCG - UFRJ -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:25 -0400, William Case wrote: > Hi Patrick; > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > [snip] > > > > My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey > > the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course > > there is a set of things collectively called "network service". > > I believe that network services were managed by the > system-control-network gui which used the ifconfig page as its data > source. I have removed the ifconfig. Yet 'something' is running and > making reference to configured devices 'lo eth0' etc. Bill, we may be going off at a tangent here since I really haven't attempted to answer your original question, but the interfaces are always going to be there (assuming the drivers are loaded). What changes is whether they are marked UP or not. The state of each interface is internal to the kernel, all the various commands do is manipulate it or report it. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "removed the ifconfig". poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Hi Matthew; On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > system-config-network. They *are set* in system-config-network. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Hi Patrick; On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: [snip] > > My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey > the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course > there is a set of things collectively called "network service". I believe that network services were managed by the system-control-network gui which used the ifconfig page as its data source. I have removed the ifconfig. Yet 'something' is running and making reference to configured devices 'lo eth0' etc. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: [snip] > > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in > system-config-network. network won't turn off. The command line shows: ]# service network status Configured devices: lo eth0 Currently active devices: lo eth0 ]# service network stop Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] and then; NetworkManager's gui shows warning 'disconnected'; does its grind; produces a dialogue (tool tip thingy) that says I am reconnected. If I check, I get: ]# service network status Configured devices: lo eth0 Currently active devices: lo eth0 And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > >> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > >> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > >> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? > > > > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think > > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand > > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of > > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they > > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the > > system-config-network command. > > > Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager > and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5, > and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is > important if you want to start/stop them manually.) > > In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service > command if there was not a network service. My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course there is a set of things collectively called "network service". poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? > > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the > system-config-network command. He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in system-config-network. > > > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those > > questions even relevant? > > The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various > device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such > as DHCP service run in user space. > > > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends. > > Because it's not a single process. > > poc > > -- Matthew Saltzman Clemson University Math Sciences mjs AT clemson DOT edu http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Now I am getting more confused. On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > >> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > >> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > >> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? > > > > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think > > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand > > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of > > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they > > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the > > system-config-network command. > > > Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager > and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5, > and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is > important if you want to start/stop them manually.) > > In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service > command if there was not a network service. > > Mikkel When I run the system-config-services gui I get the following info: NetworkManager => enabled, running, run level 2,3,4,5 network=> disabled, running, run level all off. plus the same command line info as previously. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: >> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking >> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' >> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? > > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the > system-config-network command. > Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5, and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is important if you want to start/stop them manually.) In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service command if there was not a network service. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Re: network vs NetworkManger services ??
On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote: > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the > [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the system-config-network command. > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those > questions even relevant? The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such as DHCP service run in user space. > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends. Because it's not a single process. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
network vs NetworkManger services ??
Hi; NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes. * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail (looping ??). * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution properly. * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be in my gconf-editor. They are not. * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating properly after turning NetworkManager off and on. I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network' service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on? Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those questions even relevant? ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends. The command line shows: ]# service network status Configured devices: lo eth0 Currently active devices: lo eth0 ]# service network stop Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ] Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] and then; ]# service network status Configured devices: lo eth0 Currently active devices: lo eth0 There is no Fedora manual or 'Help' for NetworkManager 'man NetworkManager' produces only: "DESCRIPTION The NetworkManager daemon attempts to keep an active network connection available at all times. The point of NetworkManager is to make networking configuration and setup as painless and automatic as possible. If using DHCP, NetworkManager is intended to replace default routes,obtain IP addresses from a DHCP server, and change nameservers whenever it sees fit, with the aim of making networking Just Work." nm-tool shows me no more info than is available in the NM gui. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/NetworkManager simply tells me how to configure for pam. My pam.d/gdm is auth optionalpam_gnome_keyring.so sessionoptionalpam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start googled sites gives info for gentoo and mandrivia only. I am stumped. I will re-ask on the NetworkManager list, but first I would like to straighten out in my mind the network vs NetworkManger services thing. -- Regards Bill; Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3 Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list