date:20051208

you're probably right, michelle--i'm just looking at it from the
position of enforcement of ALL animal laws, not just directing
enforcement against responsible caretakers.

--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Advice please

while i know that there can be reactions to the FeLV vaccine itself,
when there are negative cats involved, i'm still one who tends toward
vaccinating the negatives to allow the positive a live free to roam. i
know a great deal of people who have had positives mixed with
VACCINATED negatives for many, many years with no negative contracting
the virus; i personally have never seen any documented proof of a
vaccinated cat who was truly negative actually becoming positive. are
any of my personal cats vaccinated? only the ones that came to me that
way--however, i'd like to be able to hold cats/kittens for retesting,
and as soon as i can afford the series of shots for the whole crew, i
most probably WILL vaccinate them all. it's a rock-and-a-hard-place
decision for me; because my cats are rescues, i don't know about their
genetic backgrounds, so i can't guarantee they would be able to throw
the virus off, and many are starting to get up into their teens with
the decrease immune capacity (is that the right word?)...

while they say the vaccine is only 85% effective, i have serious
questions about whether that's in a healthy, non-high-risk population
or in the whole cat universe. from being at the sanctuary, and knowing
people who mix vaccinated negatives with positives, i've come to think
that that efficacy rate is probably only accurate amongst high-risk,
already compromised animals. otherwise, there is no good explanation
for the very high rate of healthy cats who will test positive after
exposure, then be able to throw the virus off. i also know of a number
of cats who tested positive, were put into an all-positive situation
and not retested (as the info about the virus' being able to work
itself out of the system wasn't known, or because retesting was never
recommended) end up testing negative years after having been in
constant contact with positives when, for some reason (like incredibly
good health!) a retest was done.

to me, neither euthanasia nor release to the wild are acceptable
choices but that's me


--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Advice please

2005-12-08 Thread vandalin1




Unfortunately, the woman I am trying to help has very little 
money. She lives in a trailer and has no room where she can isolate the cat. She 
would like to somehow enclose her front porch and keep the kitty there, but as 
she is only renting the property, the landlord may object. 
 
I have a friend who maintains a free-roaming cat colony. 
Recently, one of the cats was not doing well so she had it tested. It was 
positive for leukemia and as it was obviously ill, she had it euthanized. 
However, the other 25 or so cats are seemingly healthy. They do not get into 
fights with each other as they have all been fixed.
 
So, I have to leave it up to her to make a decision. She is 
definitely not going to euthanize him and she does want to contain him in some 
way.
 
Anne VWarner Robins, GA

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Kittens under one year of age are more likely to contract FELV. I do NOT 
  suggest she mix this cat with her kittens. FELV vaccination does not guarantee 
  protection, especially in younger cats (it does however, lead to cancerous 
  tumors in as many as 1 in every 1000 cases). Ideally, what you would need to 
  do is contain the cat in a separate room from the kittens until placement at 
  either a sanctuary that accepts FELV+ cats, or an adoptive home can be found. 
  This being hard work, it's probably not an option for 
her.

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





I think that many are feral and semi-feral and at least one is FeLV+ and 
several are elderly.  When I said I would assist with legal fees, I mean 
about $100.  We are actually doing pretty badly financially since moving, 
due to me only having part-time work right now and a bunch of vet bills and 
house repairs and having spent our savings on the move.  I would hope that 
an ALDF-associated attorney would do this kind of case pro bono, though.
 
Hideyo would have to take the lead in creating a back-up emergency plan for 
placing the cats with list members.  It is true that none of us but her 
know what is going on with her cats or her case.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I understand and agree.  I do, though, 
  also agree that we should figure out an alternate-placement plan now.  I 
  don't know the conditions of her cats, so cannot comment on how bad the 
  conditions of some of them are, and their transportability.  Perhaps 
  those in the worst conditions could stay with her.  We still don't know 
  how many cats she would be allowed to keep under the ordinance pertaining to 
  her township.

Re: OT:help with my dilemma

2005-12-08 Thread felv




Thanks Presto. Moogie's cremains sit on a shelf in the kitchen surrounded 
by pictures of her. It's strange, I can be in the room with her remains and her 
"real" memorial and not cry, but when I go to the webpage memorial, I lose it 
every time. I do think I captured something on that page that really represents 
the essence of her life, and what she meant to me. I'm glad you thought so too. 

 
I love writing, about all things. I appreciate the compliment on my writing 
as well.
Jennhttp://ucat.ushttp://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.htmlAdopt 
a cat from UCAT rescue:http://ucat.us/adopt.html  Adopt a 
FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/AWrescue/FIV/Adopt a 
FELV+ cat:http://ucat.us/FELVadopt.html~~~I 
collect KMR kitten formula labels for Bazil, a 3 yr old special needs cat who 
must live on a liquid diet for the rest of his life.Bazil's caretaker 
collects labels and sends them to KMR, where they add up until she earns a free 
can of formula!PLEASE save your KMR kitten formula labels for Bazil!If 
you use KMR, even just one can, please email me for the NEW address to send them 
to!~Does 
your cat have chronic diarrhea that does not respond to treatment, or has your 
cat been loosely diagnosed as IBD? Have you tested for Tritrichomonosis? The 
test is new, the new drug makes it curable. Ask me today how you can test 
for Trich!
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/2005

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??




I understand and agree.  I do, though, also 
agree that we should figure out an alternate-placement plan now.  I don't 
know the conditions of her cats, so cannot comment on how bad the conditions of 
some of them are, and their transportability.  Perhaps those in the worst 
conditions could stay with her.  We still don't know how many cats she 
would be allowed to keep under the ordinance pertaining to her 
township.
 
I'm not willing to send money for legal fees 
because I was badly burned by a lawyer a month ago, pertaining to my recently 
deceased father's will.  The amount of money he charged me for nothing 
could easily have saved several cats' lives.  But I am willing to provide 
money for transporting the cats.  Let me say, though, that I do admire your 
generosity in being willing to assist with legal fees.
 
I think we need to know more about this 
situation, Michelle.  My number's 413-245-0459 if you ever want to give me 
a call, and my email's [EMAIL PROTECTED].  I think we're kindred 
spirits in some ways, but that we may risk becoming overcommitted in a situation 
that we don't know that well.  I've done a tremendous amount of rescue work 
in 25 years, and what people say can be misleading.  I'm sensing a lack of 
crucial information.
 
With appreciation,
Presto

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:32 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case 
  19th??
  
  
  I think it is good to always have a back-up plan.  But the court has 
  to allow time to file an appeal.  The court does not have to agree, 
  however, to stay a bad decision while an appeal is pending, i.e. to leave the 
  cats alone while the appeal pends.  However, a refusal to stay the 
  decision can also be appealed on an emergency basis. And in this case, where 
  there is no one complaining and the neighbors have signed a petition in 
  support, there would be no justification for a court to deny a stay during an 
  appeal.  Not that courts never do unjustified things, mind you.  But 
  legally, she should be able to fight this all the way while keeping her cats 
  with her.  But she may need legal help to fight effectively, which is why 
  I mentioned ALDF.
   
  One way to help might be to help financially with legal fees if Hideyo 
  can find someone experienced but they do not agree to take the case pro bono. 
  I would be willing to send some money.  I would of course be willing to 
  send some money for transport too, but I do not think it should have to come 
  to that, with zealous advocacy.  And to tell the truth, so many of her 
  cats are feral and special needs that unless we ourselves took all of them, I 
  can not imagine her finding places for them.  Maybe people on this 
  list could take all of them, in an emergency, and maybe we should figure that 
  out now.  But I can not take any at all, due to my own living situation 
  and my partner.  And transport across country would be pretty bad for 
  cats as compromised as some of her cats are.
   
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:25:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
I think it would be a good idea to set up a 
contingency plan, in case the court decision goes against 
Hideyo.
 
She may not be given the time to file an 
appeal.  She may not have the money to file an appeal.  The cats 
may be taken away from her within a matter of days after a negative 
decision.
 
Perhaps we can help her place her cats, 
if the need arises.  How many does she have?  What are their 
medical problems, shyness quotients, and ages?  Is she willing to get 
them to an airport and air-freight them to us?  Will we help her with 
the airfare?  I've air-freighted cats in the past, and have no 
hesitation about doing so, nor any hesitation in paying the fee.  
Others may not feel the same.  Do you have room in your homes to take 
in one or more of her cats?  Is she liable to take in more 
cats after a negative decision and clearance of her household?  In 
short, might she end up back in the same position?
 
Is she in an apartment, or a house, and if 
she's in a house, does she own the house?  What is the legal limitation 
on the number of cats she is allowed to possess within the zoning for 
where she lives?  Are her cats allowed to roam outside, or not?  
What were the circumstances of the inspection (I assume there was one) that 
led to this situation?  Was the primary concern about cleanliness 
(time to hire a cleaner) or about sheer numbers?  
 
Zoning ordinances can be very difficult to 
beat.  When Everett and I bought our house three years ago, 
we made sure in advance that the town had no limitation on the number of 
cats allowed per household.  It's zoned for farming.  Can Hideyo 
afford to move?
 
We

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??




Michelle, are you in MA?  So am I.  A 
very educated, liberal state, comparatively speaking.  We have it lucky 
compared to some who live in less tolerant states.
 
Presto

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:03 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case 
  19th??
  
  
  Hideyo,
   
      Thank you. I read it. The link is not to the decision 
  itself, but to a summary of the decision. And it was not a federal court, but 
  a state court that struck down the ordinance.
   
      Does your town have a limit on the number of animals? 
  Or was this just a case-by-case decision denying you the permits you 
  need? If you are being charged criminally for not having the requisite permits 
  and they would not give them to you based on numbers alone, I am not sure I 
  would plead guilty.  I think I might argue that there was no basis for 
  denying you the permits and therefore no basis to charge you criminally, or 
  that the denial was unconstitutional.  But I really do think you will 
  need legal help in order to make these arguments and should try to get a 
  lawyer.  In the civil case, I definitely think you should raise this 
  argument. But you should get the other cases the ALDF member mentioned, 
  because the more courts that have made similar determinations, the more 
  persuasive the argument will be.
   
  Again, though, I really do not have enough 
  information about the laws and government actions in your case to figure out 
  exactly how to argue the case. You need someone who can get involved on a 
  local level, if possible.
   
     When I worked in NM briefly, I found the legal system pretty 
  appalling.  I worked on the state court level, probably above the level 
  of the court you are going to, and even on that level I was amazed.  
  Common law (legal principles developed by courts) were not very developed 
  compared to MA, and some of the courts did not seem familiar with U.S. Supreme 
  Court cases that I learned about in first year of law school.  The state 
  court in one county was refusing to waive filing fees for divorce cases when 
  people were too poor to pay the fees, and the U.S. Supreme Court had stated 
  this was unconstitutional way back in the 70's!  All of which is to say 
  that you may have to educate the court a bit.
   
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:15:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/limitlawpennsylvania.htm
here you go.. 
please read and if it will help my case, 
  michelle.

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





I think it is good to always have a back-up plan.  But the court has 
to allow time to file an appeal.  The court does not have to agree, 
however, to stay a bad decision while an appeal is pending, i.e. to leave the 
cats alone while the appeal pends.  However, a refusal to stay the decision 
can also be appealed on an emergency basis. And in this case, where there is no 
one complaining and the neighbors have signed a petition in support, there would 
be no justification for a court to deny a stay during an appeal.  Not that 
courts never do unjustified things, mind you.  But legally, she should be 
able to fight this all the way while keeping her cats with her.  But she 
may need legal help to fight effectively, which is why I mentioned ALDF.
 
One way to help might be to help financially with legal fees if Hideyo can 
find someone experienced but they do not agree to take the case pro bono. I 
would be willing to send some money.  I would of course be willing to send 
some money for transport too, but I do not think it should have to come to that, 
with zealous advocacy.  And to tell the truth, so many of her cats are 
feral and special needs that unless we ourselves took all of them, I can not 
imagine her finding places for them.  Maybe people on this list could 
take all of them, in an emergency, and maybe we should figure that out 
now.  But I can not take any at all, due to my own living situation and my 
partner.  And transport across country would be pretty bad for cats as 
compromised as some of her cats are.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:25:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I think it would be a good idea to set up a 
  contingency plan, in case the court decision goes against 
  Hideyo.
   
  She may not be given the time to file an 
  appeal.  She may not have the money to file an appeal.  The cats may 
  be taken away from her within a matter of days after a negative 
  decision.
   
  Perhaps we can help her place her cats, 
  if the need arises.  How many does she have?  What are their medical 
  problems, shyness quotients, and ages?  Is she willing to get them to an 
  airport and air-freight them to us?  Will we help her with the 
  airfare?  I've air-freighted cats in the past, and have no hesitation 
  about doing so, nor any hesitation in paying the fee.  Others may not 
  feel the same.  Do you have room in your homes to take in one or more of 
  her cats?  Is she liable to take in more cats after a negative 
  decision and clearance of her household?  In short, might she end up back 
  in the same position?
   
  Is she in an apartment, or a house, and if 
  she's in a house, does she own the house?  What is the legal limitation 
  on the number of cats she is allowed to possess within the zoning for 
  where she lives?  Are her cats allowed to roam outside, or not?  
  What were the circumstances of the inspection (I assume there was one) that 
  led to this situation?  Was the primary concern about cleanliness 
  (time to hire a cleaner) or about sheer numbers?  
   
  Zoning ordinances can be very difficult to 
  beat.  When Everett and I bought our house three years ago, we 
  made sure in advance that the town had no limitation on the number of cats 
  allowed per household.  It's zoned for farming.  Can Hideyo afford 
  to move?
   
  We may need to kick in and offer homes to some 
  of her cats.
   
  She will be a far more effective speaker at 
  her trial if she has a back-up plan and isn't scared to death by the 
  possibility that her cats may be taken away from her and killed.  She 
  shouldn't mention the back-up plan, of course.
   
  I'll chip in on air-freight fare if anyone 
  else is willing to take in one or more of her cats.  Let's put our money 
  where our mouths are.  I really would prefer not to take in any more cats 
  myself, because we have thirty-six at present (in a very well-managed, clean 
  house--no problems).  There's only so much I can do, physically.  
  But I can give financial assistance in transporting the cats, provided that 
  Hideyo doesn't get herself into this situation again.  And saying "No" to 
  a needy cat is extremely hard;  I know that full well.
   
  Suggestions?
   
  Presto

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??




I think it would be a good idea to set up a 
contingency plan, in case the court decision goes against 
Hideyo.
 
She may not be given the time to file an 
appeal.  She may not have the money to file an appeal.  The cats may 
be taken away from her within a matter of days after a negative 
decision.
 
Perhaps we can help her place her cats, if 
the need arises.  How many does she have?  What are their medical 
problems, shyness quotients, and ages?  Is she willing to get them to an 
airport and air-freight them to us?  Will we help her with the 
airfare?  I've air-freighted cats in the past, and have no hesitation about 
doing so, nor any hesitation in paying the fee.  Others may not feel the 
same.  Do you have room in your homes to take in one or more of her 
cats?  Is she liable to take in more cats after a negative decision 
and clearance of her household?  In short, might she end up back in the 
same position?
 
Is she in an apartment, or a house, and if she's 
in a house, does she own the house?  What is the legal limitation on the 
number of cats she is allowed to possess within the zoning for where she 
lives?  Are her cats allowed to roam outside, or not?  What were the 
circumstances of the inspection (I assume there was one) that led to this 
situation?  Was the primary concern about cleanliness (time to hire a 
cleaner) or about sheer numbers?  
 
Zoning ordinances can be very difficult to 
beat.  When Everett and I bought our house three years ago, we 
made sure in advance that the town had no limitation on the number of cats 
allowed per household.  It's zoned for farming.  Can Hideyo afford to 
move?
 
We may need to kick in and offer homes to some 
of her cats.
 
She will be a far more effective speaker at her 
trial if she has a back-up plan and isn't scared to death by the possibility 
that her cats may be taken away from her and killed.  She shouldn't mention 
the back-up plan, of course.
 
I'll chip in on air-freight fare if anyone else 
is willing to take in one or more of her cats.  Let's put our money where 
our mouths are.  I really would prefer not to take in any more cats myself, 
because we have thirty-six at present (in a very well-managed, clean house--no 
problems).  There's only so much I can do, physically.  But I can give 
financial assistance in transporting the cats, provided that Hideyo doesn't get 
herself into this situation again.  And saying "No" to a needy cat is 
extremely hard;  I know that full well.
 
Suggestions?
 
Presto
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:55 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case 
  19th??
  
  
  The problem is that the city probably does not really care whether these 
  cats live or die, and certain city actors are probably of the opinion that 
  cats with long-term illnesses, like FeLV should not be allowed to live anyway 
  and only nuisance-causing crazy cat ladies keep them alive.  Shocking and 
  awful as that is, that may be what Hideyo is battling.  I think it is 
  very helpful that the head of an animal agency is apparently going to bat for 
  Hideyo and stating this very thing in a letter, but it probably is not the 
  clincher in reality. The clincher, in reality, is probably the condition of 
  the house and the cats, whether neighbors are complaining or supportive, and 
  whether the right people in the community (ie people who work with and are 
  respected by city government) are supporting her.  The other thing that 
  could be the clincher is whether there is any rational basis for the city to 
  make a nuisance determination based on numbers alone.  The PA court case 
  Hideyo mentioned could be persuasive (though a NM court has no obligation to 
  follow it).  Because animals are, appallingly, our property in legal 
  terms, the city can not just take away animals or impose criminal 
  sanctions because it feels like it-- it has to have, in the least, a rational 
  basis for making these determinations. Hideyo might be able to prove they 
  don't. But this is where it would be helpful to have an ALDF attorney who has 
  either done these cases or has access to ALDF's database of court pleadings 
  and decisions and can pull up similar cases from other parts of the 
  country.
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:48:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  i 
would think it would help to bring out more forcefully what has 
beenmentioned in passing: that hideyo, you are taking in animals that 
noone else wants, that you are caring for creatures that may be ill 
orundesirable (to others) but deserve to live, and that you are NOT 
thepeople who are letting their cats roam to spread disease, cause 
damageand repopulate the earth (i can't figure out why it's 
theconscientious people, who try to make good on the problems created 
byothers, who get pena

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





Hideyo,
 
    Thank you. I read it. The link is not to the decision 
itself, but to a summary of the decision. And it was not a federal court, but a 
state court that struck down the ordinance.
 
    Does your town have a limit on the number of animals? Or 
was this just a case-by-case decision denying you the permits you need? If 
you are being charged criminally for not having the requisite permits and they 
would not give them to you based on numbers alone, I am not sure I would plead 
guilty.  I think I might argue that there was no basis for denying you the 
permits and therefore no basis to charge you criminally, or that the denial was 
unconstitutional.  But I really do think you will need legal help in order 
to make these arguments and should try to get a lawyer.  In the civil case, 
I definitely think you should raise this argument. But you should get the other 
cases the ALDF member mentioned, because the more courts that have made similar 
determinations, the more persuasive the argument will be.
 
Again, though, I really do not have enough 
information about the laws and government actions in your case to figure out 
exactly how to argue the case. You need someone who can get involved on a local 
level, if possible.
 
   When I worked in NM briefly, I found the legal system pretty 
appalling.  I worked on the state court level, probably above the level of 
the court you are going to, and even on that level I was amazed.  Common 
law (legal principles developed by courts) were not very developed compared to 
MA, and some of the courts did not seem familiar with U.S. Supreme Court cases 
that I learned about in first year of law school.  The state court in one 
county was refusing to waive filing fees for divorce cases when people were too 
poor to pay the fees, and the U.S. Supreme Court had stated this was 
unconstitutional way back in the 70's!  All of which is to say that you may 
have to educate the court a bit.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:15:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/limitlawpennsylvania.htm
  here you go.. please 
  read and if it will help my case, 
michelle.

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





Call the ALDF office and talk to a live person.  Tell whoever answers 
that I told you to call (use my name, Michelle Lerner) and mention that I 
started the student ALDF chapter at Harvard Law School.  Tell them that I 
am in MA and can not help you and that I told you to call and see if a) there is 
anyone in their network near where you live, and b) if they have information on 
cases in NM or any other state in which pet limits were found 
unconstitutional.  Tell them that someone posted on their website that 
there have been some decisions ruling them unconstitutional, and that you need 
the citations or, even better if you do not have a lawyer to find the cases 
(though your boyfriend probably can find them for you with citations), copies of 
the decisions.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:15:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I will find the link 
  and will forward it to you.. Hey, Michelle, I had posted a message at ALDF 
  about my case, and someone replied to my post as follows (just an extract)– do 
  you know how I can get more information how unconstitutional this 
  is?
   
  Here’s the 
  message..
   
  Please note that pet limits have 
  been found unconstitutional when challenged in at least some jurisdictions (of 
  course, it is time-consuming and costly to challenge such laws). In addition, 
  many experts in companion animal issues feel that pet limits result in 
  artificially depressed adoption rates and so, cause communities to kill more 
  animals.

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





You're doing a great job of advocating for yourself.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:15:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What the city 
  attorney, Greg Wheeler said to us is that.. all they care about is whehter my 
  neighbors are complaining about me having multiple animals or not.. and if 
  not, he said that I should be able to win the case.. and I have a petition 
  signed from all my neighbors (about a dozen).  The person who reported me 
  (not for a nuisance, but me having multiple cats) was an anonymous call, so 
  the person will probably not show up the 
court)

RE: OT:help with my dilemma









Dear Jenn,

 

I wish it could have come out so easily..
that’s why I took him to the vet with the hope that it’s lose enough
that she could just pull it.. and it was not.. it’s K9 teeth and it was
not lose..

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Presto
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
4:35 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:help with my
dilemma



 



Hi Jenn,





 





On another topic, I read your memorial to
Moogie this morning, and wept.  Then I gave a printed copy to my husband,
and after he'd read it in the other room, he came in to see me with
tears streaming down his cheeks.  You captured everything very
accurately.  I was especially, especially touched by the end, with the cat
looking at the human for reassurance that it was okay to let go.





 





That is our final act of love, isn't
it?  To be there when they die, and to comfort them.  I've learned
over the years to control my tears at that time, so that I may be of
comfort.  Being rescue workers, we've attended many, many
euthanasias.  But it doesn't get any easier.  Each is a unique living
being, full of joy, and in the end, of pain and fear, and the need for comfort.





 





My eight-month-old leukemic Jaya was
euthanized by my vet last year while he was cradled in my arms on his back,
looking up at me for reassurance.  I gave him that reassurance.  I
look out my kitchen window to where he is buried, and I weep regularly.  I
couldn't let him know at the time how upset I was that he was dying.  It's
very hard to keep ones' emotions under control in those final moments, but it's
essential.





 





Thank you for sharing your memorial. 
You're a gifted writer, thinker, and careperson.





 





Presto  







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Thursday, December
08, 2005 3:50 PM





Subject: Re: OT:help with
my dilemma





 





Is the tooth loose at all? If it's loose, it's possibly that it could
be pulled quickly without any sedation. I had one vet that did minor dentals on
well behaved cats without sedating them at all (he has since retired). It CAN
be done. Or is he REALLY wild?






Jenn
http://ucat.us
http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Adopt a cat from UCAT rescue:
http://ucat.us/adopt.html  
Adopt a FIV+ cat: 
http://ucat.us/AWrescue/FIV/
Adopt a FELV+ cat:
http://ucat.us/FELVadopt.html
~~~
I collect KMR kitten formula labels for Bazil, a 3 yr old special needs cat who
must live on a liquid diet for the rest of his life.
Bazil's caretaker collects labels and sends them to KMR, where they add up
until she earns a free can of formula!
PLEASE save your KMR kitten formula labels for Bazil!
If you use KMR, even just one can, please email me for the NEW address to send
them to!
~
Does your cat have chronic diarrhea that does not respond to treatment, or has
your cat been loosely diagnosed as IBD? 
Have you tested for Tritrichomonosis? The test is new, the new drug makes it
curable. 
Ask me today how you can test for Trich!









No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/2005

Re: OT:help with my dilemma




Hi Jenn,
 
On another topic, I read your memorial to 
Moogie this morning, and wept.  Then I gave a printed copy to my husband, 
and after he'd read it in the other room, he came in to see me with 
tears streaming down his cheeks.  You captured everything very 
accurately.  I was especially, especially touched by the end, with the cat 
looking at the human for reassurance that it was okay to let go.
 
That is our final act of love, isn't 
it?  To be there when they die, and to comfort them.  I've learned 
over the years to control my tears at that time, so that I may be of 
comfort.  Being rescue workers, we've attended many, many 
euthanasias.  But it doesn't get any easier.  Each is a unique living 
being, full of joy, and in the end, of pain and fear, and the need for 
comfort.
 
My eight-month-old leukemic Jaya was 
euthanized by my vet last year while he was cradled in my arms on his back, 
looking up at me for reassurance.  I gave him that reassurance.  I 
look out my kitchen window to where he is buried, and I weep regularly.  I 
couldn't let him know at the time how upset I was that he was dying.  It's 
very hard to keep ones' emotions under control in those final moments, but it's 
essential.
 
Thank you for sharing your 
memorial.  You're a gifted writer, thinker, and careperson.
 
Presto  


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 
  PM
  Subject: Re: OT:help with my 
dilemma
  
  Is the tooth loose at all? If it's loose, it's possibly that it could be 
  pulled quickly without any sedation. I had one vet that did minor dentals on 
  well behaved cats without sedating them at all (he has since retired). It CAN 
  be done. Or is he REALLY wild?
  Jennhttp://ucat.ushttp://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.htmlAdopt 
  a cat from UCAT rescue:http://ucat.us/adopt.html  Adopt 
  a FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/AWrescue/FIV/Adopt 
  a FELV+ cat:http://ucat.us/FELVadopt.html~~~I 
  collect KMR kitten formula labels for Bazil, a 3 yr old special needs cat who 
  must live on a liquid diet for the rest of his life.Bazil's caretaker 
  collects labels and sends them to KMR, where they add up until she earns a 
  free can of formula!PLEASE save your KMR kitten formula labels for 
  Bazil!If you use KMR, even just one can, please email me for the NEW 
  address to send them 
  to!~Does 
  your cat have chronic diarrhea that does not respond to treatment, or has your 
  cat been loosely diagnosed as IBD? Have you tested for Tritrichomonosis? 
  The test is new, the new drug makes it curable. Ask me today how you can 
  test for Trich!
  
  

  No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free 
  Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 
  12/7/2005

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









What Michelle said is very true,
unfortunately.. when I mentioned about my FeLV kitties to one of the animal
control officer, the jerk who was on the other side of the phone told me that I
should have them killed anyway..

 

What the city attorney, Greg Wheeler said
to us is that.. all they care about is whehter my neighbors are complaining
about me having multiple animals or not.. and if not, he said that I should be
able to win the case.. and I have a petition signed from all my neighbors (about
a dozen).  The person who reported me (not for a nuisance, but me having multiple
cats) was an anonymous call, so the person will probably not show up the court)

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:55 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





The problem is that the city probably
does not really care whether these cats live or die, and certain city actors
are probably of the opinion that cats with long-term illnesses, like FeLV
should not be allowed to live anyway and only nuisance-causing crazy cat ladies
keep them alive.  Shocking and awful as that is, that may be what Hideyo
is battling.  I think it is very helpful that the head of an animal agency
is apparently going to bat for Hideyo and stating this very thing in a letter,
but it probably is not the clincher in reality. The clincher, in reality, is
probably the condition of the house and the cats, whether neighbors are
complaining or supportive, and whether the right people in the community (ie
people who work with and are respected by city government) are supporting
her.  The other thing that could be the clincher is whether there is any
rational basis for the city to make a nuisance determination based on numbers
alone.  The PA court case Hideyo mentioned could be persuasive (though a
NM court has no obligation to follow it).  Because animals are, appallingly,
our property in legal terms, the city can not just take away animals or
impose criminal sanctions because it feels like it-- it has to have, in the
least, a rational basis for making these determinations. Hideyo might be able
to prove they don't. But this is where it would be helpful to have an ALDF
attorney who has either done these cases or has access to ALDF's database of
court pleadings and decisions and can pull up similar cases from other parts of
the country.





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:48:38 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





i would think it would help to bring out
more forcefully what has been
mentioned in passing: that hideyo, you are taking in animals that no
one else wants, that you are caring for creatures that may be ill or
undesirable (to others) but deserve to live, and that you are NOT the
people who are letting their cats roam to spread disease, cause damage
and repopulate the earth (i can't figure out why it's the
conscientious people, who try to make good on the problems created by
others, who get penalized)

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









I will find the link and will forward it
to you.. Hey, Michelle, I had posted a message at ALDF about my case, and
someone replied to my post as follows (just an extract)– do you know how I can
get more information how unconstitutional this is?

 

Here’s the message..

 

Please note that pet limits have been found
unconstitutional when challenged in at least some jurisdictions (of course, it
is time-consuming and costly to challenge such laws). In addition, many experts
in companion animal issues feel that pet limits result in artificially
depressed adoption rates and so, cause communities to kill more animals.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:39 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





Do you have the citation for that case? I
would love to read the decision.  It's great you found that case. 
You should actually bring a copy with you to submit to the court. Not having
read the decision, I do not know if it is technically relevant to your case
(your boyfriend should be able to tell), but it may be if the issue is simply
definition of "nuisance" in terms of animals.  The court you
will be in front of probably has not really thought this through, and the case
may help with that. The case may also show both the court and the city attorney
that you know that appealing a lot can sometimes eventually pay off and that
you are willing to do that-- which they would hate to have to deal with.





 





You may want to see if there is a way to
get this case to the city attorney informally too, like through the friend who
is going to talk to him.





 





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:31:24 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Thanks, Michelle –

I remember reading a case in PA, for a similar situation as I am in
– she lost her case on the city level, and appealed and she lost on the state
level and she lost again, and she appealed to federal level and she finally
won!  The federal court ruled against the opponent claiming that “having
the number of animals (I think she has 25 to 35 cats or something) itself” does
not prove the they are creating nuisance

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/limitlawpennsylvania.htm

here you go.. please read and if it will
help my case, michelle.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:39 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





Do you have the citation for that case? I
would love to read the decision.  It's great you found that case. 
You should actually bring a copy with you to submit to the court. Not having
read the decision, I do not know if it is technically relevant to your case
(your boyfriend should be able to tell), but it may be if the issue is simply
definition of "nuisance" in terms of animals.  The court you
will be in front of probably has not really thought this through, and the case
may help with that. The case may also show both the court and the city attorney
that you know that appealing a lot can sometimes eventually pay off and that
you are willing to do that-- which they would hate to have to deal with.





 





You may want to see if there is a way to
get this case to the city attorney informally too, like through the friend who
is going to talk to him.





 





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:31:24 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Thanks, Michelle –

I remember reading a case in PA, for a similar situation as I am in
– she lost her case on the city level, and appealed and she lost on the state
level and she lost again, and she appealed to federal level and she finally
won!  The federal court ruled against the opponent claiming that “having
the number of animals (I think she has 25 to 35 cats or something) itself” does
not prove the they are creating nuisance

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





The problem is that the city probably does not really care whether these 
cats live or die, and certain city actors are probably of the opinion that cats 
with long-term illnesses, like FeLV should not be allowed to live anyway and 
only nuisance-causing crazy cat ladies keep them alive.  Shocking and awful 
as that is, that may be what Hideyo is battling.  I think it is very 
helpful that the head of an animal agency is apparently going to bat for Hideyo 
and stating this very thing in a letter, but it probably is not the clincher in 
reality. The clincher, in reality, is probably the condition of the house and 
the cats, whether neighbors are complaining or supportive, and whether the right 
people in the community (ie people who work with and are respected by city 
government) are supporting her.  The other thing that could be the clincher 
is whether there is any rational basis for the city to make a nuisance 
determination based on numbers alone.  The PA court case Hideyo mentioned 
could be persuasive (though a NM court has no obligation to follow it).  
Because animals are, appallingly, our property in legal terms, the city can 
not just take away animals or impose criminal sanctions because it feels like 
it-- it has to have, in the least, a rational basis for making these 
determinations. Hideyo might be able to prove they don't. But this is where it 
would be helpful to have an ALDF attorney who has either done these cases or has 
access to ALDF's database of court pleadings and decisions and can pull up 
similar cases from other parts of the country.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:48:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i would 
  think it would help to bring out more forcefully what has beenmentioned in 
  passing: that hideyo, you are taking in animals that noone else wants, 
  that you are caring for creatures that may be ill orundesirable (to 
  others) but deserve to live, and that you are NOT thepeople who are 
  letting their cats roam to spread disease, cause damageand repopulate the 
  earth (i can't figure out why it's theconscientious people, who try to 
  make good on the problems created byothers, who get 
penalized)

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??

i would think it would help to bring out more forcefully what has been
mentioned in passing: that hideyo, you are taking in animals that no
one else wants, that you are caring for creatures that may be ill or
undesirable (to others) but deserve to live, and that you are NOT the
people who are letting their cats roam to spread disease, cause damage
and repopulate the earth (i can't figure out why it's the
conscientious people, who try to make good on the problems created by
others, who get penalized)

--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Hideyo's court case




Michelle, with regret, it's not possible.  
Andrea Yee is now in her early eighties, is an invalid, and it is clear that her 
mind is going.  I can barely understand her on the telephone.  She 
can't even leave her highrise apartment to feed the local colony.  It's a 
source of sadness to her and to me.  I've known her for 22 
years.
 
Presto  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:59 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
  
  Presto,
     It is possible that your elderly friend, if she is able and 
  willing to help, could help by visiting Hideyo and talking to her and then 
  serving as a witness.  If she is respected in the community (i.e. not in 
  trouble herself for having "too many" animals), her testimony could 
help.
  Michelle

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





Do you have the citation for that case? I would love to read the 
decision.  It's great you found that case.  You should actually bring 
a copy with you to submit to the court. Not having read the decision, I do not 
know if it is technically relevant to your case (your boyfriend should be able 
to tell), but it may be if the issue is simply definition of "nuisance" in terms 
of animals.  The court you will be in front of probably has not really 
thought this through, and the case may help with that. The case may also show 
both the court and the city attorney that you know that appealing a lot can 
sometimes eventually pay off and that you are willing to do that-- which they 
would hate to have to deal with.
 
You may want to see if there is a way to get this case to the city attorney 
informally too, like through the friend who is going to talk to him.
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:31:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Thanks, Michelle 
  –
  I remember reading a 
  case in PA, for a similar situation as I am in – she lost her case on the city 
  level, and appealed and she lost on the state level and she lost again, and 
  she appealed to federal level and she finally won!  The federal court 
  ruled against the opponent claiming that “having the number of animals (I 
  think she has 25 to 35 cats or something) itself” does not prove the they are 
  creating nuisance

Re: Nina's Greeting and Question




Nina, you're fantastic.  I love your 
stories.  The kittens around your feet, looking up at you 
expectantly.  Oh my.  That reminds me so much of our leukemic 
litter.  Gawd, how I miss them.  And yes, I understand exactly why you 
wanted to take in another litter.  When I lost our sixth, I called the 
group that had asked me to take the litter, and asked them to give me 
another.  What they gave me was two Felv+ adults, one of whom is deaf and 
completely feral, and the other is cantankerous.  But they were kittens, 
too, once.  We delight in them both.  All the same, there's nothing 
like raising a litter of positives.
 
The wash cloth strategically 
placed!  Oh my goodness.  You're a great writer, and you catch images 
beautifully.  Yes, the feeding every two hours is the even tougher 
part.  I suffer from insomnia and sleep deprivation fairly consistently, so 
that was the worst part for me.  But for the kittens, it was the urine 
burns--I'm thinking of a litter that was only four days old, and whose mother 
had toxoplasmosis.  
 
I'll check out the website.
 
Funny how males can be surrogate 
parents.  I've known that to be true in cats.  But in 
dogs...interesting.  I've heard that sometimes male cats try to 
kill the babies, possibly thinking they're rats, or that they're invading the 
males' domain.  But I haven't seen that myself.  Perhaps there is as 
broad an array of behavior among male dogs and cats as there is among 
humans.  It would make sense.
 
Yes, the male elementary teachers are 
snapped up.  
 
Everett (who taught high school) and 
I left CA in 1995, to teach at the American School of Kinshasa.  The last 
time I taught in CA was in '93-'94.  I taught elementary music that year, 
and had nine-hundred students at three different schools, per week.  It was 
fantastic, albeit challenging.  I love music, and 
love working with children, so it was an especially enjoyable 
combination.  
 
Presto

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nina 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:57 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Nina's Greeting and 
  Question
  Presto,Bottle babies are a great deal of work, but oh so 
  rewarding.  There's nothing like being mommy to these little 
  tinnies.  So trusting, so loving and adorable.  They sort of imprint 
  on you the way chicks or ducklings do.  I'll never forget the first time 
  I realized just how dependent on my guidance they were...  I had them in 
  our backyard for some supervised outside play, (they were probably about 8 
  weeks old at the time).  I had been expecting a call and when I ran in to 
  answer the phone, I looked down and all six, (who had been busily playing in 
  different areas of the yard), were huddled around my feet looking up 
  expectantly at me, waiting for the cue that the danger had passed.  They 
  had all raced in with me when they saw my alarm.  Talk about cute!  
  Talk about trust!  The feeding regime, that of course has to be done 
  every couple of hours 'round the clock, seemed to go on forever.  By the 
  time the last one had been fed and washed, the first was hungry again!  
  Happily the soccer world cup games were being televised at the time, so my 
  husband didn't mind taking some of the 3am feedings since he was getting up to 
  watch the games anyway!  I have a couple of short video clips of the 
  kittens on my website, http://www.companiondogtraining.com/ 
  go take a look.I never had a urination burn problem.  Hmm, I'm 
  not sure why.  I did have the help of my dog Vladimir, (surrogate mom 
  extraordinarie).  He would happily help clean and groom the kittens, so 
  maybe that's why they didn't get as irritated.  I remember finding the 
  "magic spot" on my first bottle-baby, Ursula's tiny bladder.  Laying them 
  on their back and pressing ever so slightly, will send a stream of urine 
  flowing like a fountain straight into the air which can be caught with a wash 
  cloth strategically placed!  I caught myself musing the other day 
  about how nice it would be to foster, (and I use the word foster lightly!), 
  some litter in need.  (I was so unhappy knowing I couldn't take in any 
  kittens while I had felv in the house).  I swear, I must be out of my 
  mind!  That invisible neon beacon on my front lawn probably has "helpless 
  kittens wanted" written on it now!My sister substitute teaches 2nd and 
  3rd grades.  When she was doing her student teaching for her credential, 
  she had applied to an Oxnard district.  She was told that they only hire 
  bi-lingual teachers, (although they will take male candidates who only speak 
  English occasionally because they're so scarce).  Was the last time you 
  lived in Ca 20 years ago?NinaPresto wrote:
  

Nina, this is incredible.  Your 
experiences very closely parallel ours.  The only difference with the 
litter is that you received yours much younger, and that there were six 
kittens rather than seven

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









Thanks, Michelle –

I remember reading a case in PA, for a
similar situation as I am in – she lost her case on the city level, and
appealed and she lost on the state level and she lost again, and she appealed
to federal level and she finally won!  The federal court ruled against the
opponent claiming that “having the number of animals (I think she has 25
to 35 cats or something) itself” does not prove the they are creating
nuisance 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:21 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





Hideyo, if this does go forward and for
some reason you do lose and the order is bad, file an appeal and call the
Animal Legal Defense Fund for referral to an attorney to represent you on
appeal.  I personally would call them now to see if someone is in your
area who can help on the 19th if you have to go to court.





 





informal resolution is always best,
,though, and it looks like you are on track to do that, hopefully.





michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:17:55 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Yeah.. I have a letter from her.. also a
friend of mine who was an assistant mayor recently became a deputy director of
environmental health service where animal services division sits under.. so we
are making some calls to see if this can be taken care of internally.. but I am
playing a phone tag with the director of animal services.. so I am still prepared
to go to a court and to win.. if I don’t win.. what are the options???
Taking my animals away and kill them???  It just does not make
sense.  My animals are not bothering anyone, and they are well taken care
of .. why removing them and trying to kill them using tax payer’s money..

Re: Hideyo's court case





I have no idea at all why I thought you lived in HI.  I must be losing 
your mind. Yes, I gave you their names because I thought you were in HI.  
If you called them, they probably could not figure out why I had given their 
number to someone in NM!  Wow 
 
No, no animal-related contacts in NM, just Native American legal contacts 
from when I worked on a Pueblo for a short time 10 years ago. All I can say is 
to call Animal Legal Defense Fund. They are in CA but have a network of lawyers 
around the country who focus on animal law. There may be one who can help you in 
NM, or one who can talk to your boyfriend over the phone about legal angles and 
strategies.
 
Michelle
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:18:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I live in Albuquerque, NM – I 
  think one time, you have given me a husband and wife’s names who are animal 
  advocates in Hawaii (lawyer and vet??) – I did try to 
  contact them.. were you sending their name to me because you though I lived in 
  Hawaii??  I am sorry, if that was the 
  case.. I have been living in Albuquerque for the past … 15 year or so.. 
  now.. do you have any contacts in my area, 
Michelle?

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





Hideyo, if this does go forward and for some reason you do lose and the 
order is bad, file an appeal and call the Animal Legal Defense Fund for referral 
to an attorney to represent you on appeal.  I personally would call them 
now to see if someone is in your area who can help on the 19th if you have to go 
to court.
 
informal resolution is always best, ,though, and it looks like you are on 
track to do that, hopefully.
michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:17:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yeah.. I have a 
  letter from her.. also a friend of mine who was an assistant mayor recently 
  became a deputy director of environmental health service where animal services 
  division sits under.. so we are making some calls to see if this can be taken 
  care of internally.. but I am playing a phone tag with the director of animal 
  services.. so I am still prepared to go to a court and to win.. if I don’t 
  win.. what are the options??? Taking my animals away and kill them???  It 
  just does not make sense.  My animals are not bothering anyone, and they 
  are well taken care of .. why removing them and trying to kill them using tax 
  payer’s money..

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





as a lawyer, i can tell you that is the best news yet.
mivhelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:17:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am also a friend of 
  the city attorney who is going to be against me on 12/19 – he is going to have 
  a off record conversation about my case --- apparently the city attorney is an 
  easy going, animal lover … so I am hoping that something will turn into 
  good.

RE: OT:help with my dilemma









Well.. I don’t know exactly how old he is
somewhere between 10 and 20  I have met him 7 years ago,, abut he was a
matured boy then (not young one) – 

I would ask about local pain killers
---but since he is sort of a feral boy and hates to be message with his face or
mouth.. it might be difficult to handle him that way, too.

 

I have one girl –Ruby-E gone through the
dental a couple of weeks ago, and it’s amazing to see how much better she is
doing now, she is a different cat!  The teeth must have been hurting her so bad
before.

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
12:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:help with my
dilemma



 





I have gone through similar decisions
with my positives.  Ginger stopped eating and I thought it was from her
bad teeth but was not sure, and did not know whether to put her through
tooth-pulling. I did, and they pulled 10 teeth at one time, and she got a
really bad URI afterwards. But when she pulled through that, at last, she was
able to eat again.  Now, only 7 months later, the gums over her remaining
teeth are bright red and I notice her chewing less and i am unsure whether to
bring her to a dentist or not. And Patches, also positive, has two broken teeth
that the vet says need to come out, but she is eating so, even if the teeth
hurt her, I have been afraid of putting her through the surgery.





 





All of which is to say, I don't
know.  The thing to keep in mind, though, is that a bad tooth can actually
cause kidney problems or make them worse, as bacteria and other stuff gets into
the blood stream through the bad tooth's root and needs to be processed by the
kidneys. Also, not eating enough can make the kidneys worse.





 





Have you asked if it is possible, given
the heart murmer and that it is only one tooth, to pull it under heavy but not
complete sedation with local painkillers and anesthetics?  If that is
possible, I think I would do it.





 





How old is he?





 





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 2:18:19 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Hi, everyone – I am in dilemma and I need your opinions.

My Hannibal who has had kidney problem might need to get his tooth
pulled out – he only had one tooth left, but the root is showing and it’s
hurting him as he grows after the food touch his tooth.  He is an older
feral boy, and has kidney problem (thought this very last blood work showed
that everything is back into the normal range – yeah – I have been giving him
fluid a couple of times a week along with V-B12 and complex injections)..
anyway, he had lost a couple of pounds since the last check up which was two
months ago, and am thinking that it might be due to his tooth.. he likes to
drink juice from fish can.. but try to avoid eat a solid food – if he is in a
perfect condition, I would have them pull a tooth right away, because he is an
older boy, because he has low grade heart murmur, because of the past kidney
issue, because of high globulin, the vet thought he might have FIP (though I
personally don’t feel that he has some reasons), I am going back and forth as
to what I should do – I would love to have it pulled if he will go through the
surgery ok.. but you just never know….and I can’t afford to lose him from the
surgery - --any advise?

RE: Hideyo's court case









Hi, Presto,,, the court case is having
getting multiple animal permit from the animal control division in my city –
they rejected to give me the permit due to the current ordinance, so I requested
a hearing to present my case so that I could keep my animals.  I rescue
cats and lots of cats I have have special needs and am trying to fight so that
they will not take them away from me…if this ever happens, I might as
well die… as they are my babies and they are the reason for me to live…

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Presto
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
2:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case



 



I'm new to the
site, and don't know what Hideyo's court case is all about.  But I perked
up my ears when Michelle mentioned Hawaii. 
Perhaps I should have guessed, because of Hideyo's Japanese name.  I lived
for four years in Honolulu,
when I was a graduate student, and did rescue work there.  I still have a
close friend there, an elderly lady with whom I managed a feral colony near the
university.  She also worked with ferals downtown.  I know a lot
about the feline conditions in Honolulu. 
I also know a fair amount about the Honolulu Humane Society (aka
pound) as it was twenty years ago, and about most Hawaiians'
attitudes toward feral and abandoned tamed cats (some of the worst attitudes in
the country).  And, I'm afraid I can't say anything nice about the Honolulu police dept.,
although things may have changed.





 





Honolulu's cats suffer from horrible
afflictions that are not seen as often on the mainland, such as hookworm (a
horrible way to die--it infests the lungs) and mange that can cover most of the
body and denude it.  Because of the warm climate, the feline reproduction
rate is high.  The street cats are treated with atrocious cruelty. 
Anyone who tries to do feline rescue work in HI is fighting a more than usually
uphill battle.  Within the past year, the HI'n authorities established a
policy of killing all ferals.  A letter-writing campaign was initiated,
but I doubt it was effective.  So I don't think things have changed there,
and my friend keeps me moderately up-to-date.





 





Housing is so
incredibly, incredibly expensive, and housing space so scarce, in the islands,
that anyone doing rescue work will end up with overcrowding.  There's no
such thing as a low-cost spay-neuter program there, because vets have to pay
such high rentals on their locations that they make it up by jacking up the
prices in veterinary care, especially spays, which are a major source of
income.  





 





In terms of
sanitation, the cockroaches are an incredible problem, even in the upper floors
of highrises.  They've become resistant to poisons, and they deposit feces
wherever they go, leaving streaks and stains.  It's hard not
to have a sanitation problem.  When I lived on the eleventh floor of a
highrise, even though I kept my efficiency apartment clean and fumigated
regularly, I had serious problems with them.  Turn on the light at night,
and the counters would be covered with them.  Open a kitchen cabinet, and
they'd fall off the inside of the cabinet door onto your head.  When I
lived in a ground-floor dwelling, I got the big onesWell, you get the
idea.  It's the heat and humidity.





 





May I help in
some way?





 





Presto







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 





Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:34 PM





Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case





 







No, I really
don't.  Other than fly to Hawaii!
I am not trying to belittle the effort at all, and was thinking of writing one
myself.  But my lawyer voice prevents me from doing it, because I feel
silly as a lawyer writing something that I do not think a court will give
credence to.  If you do write something though, this is what I would do: I
would, first of all, be sure to explain what this group is, how it focuses on
FeLV, and is made up of people from around the world with expertise on caring
for cats with FeLV.  I would then explain the type of contact you have had
with Hideyo, which in your case Nina I believe includes phone contact too,
which makes a letter from you a little stronger than from others on the list,
and some details about the extent to which she cares for her cats, and the
lengths that she goes to to provide the best treatment available.  I would
emphasize the phone contact.





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:29:18 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Do you have any suggestions of how else
we might be able to help?
Nina

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??

Title: Message








Yeah.. I have a letter from her.. also a
friend of mine who was an assistant mayor recently became a deputy director of environmental
health service where animal services division sits under.. so we are making
some calls to see if this can be taken care of internally.. but I am playing a
phone tag with the director of animal services.. so I am still prepared to go
to a court and to win.. if I don’t win.. what are the options??? Taking my
animals away and kill them???  It just does not make sense.  My animals are not
bothering anyone, and they are well taken care of .. why removing them and trying
to kill them using tax payer’s money..

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
1:32 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 



Agreed. Unlike myself (for instance),
Hideyo is in the fortunate (though not in the least bit surprising!)
position of having credible, authoritative animal experts on her side ---the
vet turned animal agency director comes to mind--who have already let her know
what a great job she does. Hideyo, have they agreed to support you on the
19th by letter or in person? (I cannot imagine they would not.)





 





 





 



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
2:20 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??





No, I don't think it can
hurt.  But it is really important that Hideyo get something from her vet
(better if he is willing to testify in person or write an affidavit, which is a
sworn statement) and from neighbors and local folks familiar with her rescue work. 
If she shows up with only online testimonials, it will look bad.





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





I did wonder that as I began writing mine
last night. Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't
itnot the 12th? Hideyo?    Kerry







 








=00IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisorThis email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: OT:help with my dilemma









It’s sort of difficult to give him
anything to his teeth,, he will fight so hard… the vet said that his gum
were so inflamed around the tooth, too. 

Apparently, they can eat well with no
teeth.. my baby Garfunkle had almost no teeth (even when I first met him),, but
he ate well.. oh gosh.. I miss my Garfunkle.. I am looking at his picture as I
write.. and I just so wish I could hold him in my arms again…. 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nina
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
12:35 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:help with my
dilemma



 

Hideyo,
That's a tough call with Hannibal. 
How wonderful that his blood work is all in the normal range now!  You're
such a good mom!  Did I understand you correctly, that Hannibal only has one tooth left in his head? 
How can he eat anything solid with one tooth?  It's alarming that he's
lost two pounds over a two month period.  I know how special Hannibal is and how scary
it is to subject him to surgery, but if he won't eat because he's in
pain...   I wish I had some advice for you, these decisions are never
easy.  If he is in pain because the root of the tooth is exposed, (and not
because the tooth is impacted/infected), might he benefit from some sort of
topical fluoride treatment?  Using fluoride on exposed roots reduce and
sometimes eliminate pain.  I know there are prescription fluoride rinses
for humans, maybe they could be used on cats?
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:



Hi, everyone – I am in dilemma and I need your
opinions.

My Hannibal who has had kidney problem might need to
get his tooth pulled out – he only had one tooth left, but the root is
showing and it’s hurting him as he grows after the food touch his
tooth.  He is an older feral boy, and has kidney problem (thought this
very last blood work showed that everything is back into the normal range
– yeah – I have been giving him fluid a couple of times a week
along with V-B12 and complex injections).. anyway, he had lost a couple of
pounds since the last check up which was two months ago, and am thinking that
it might be due to his tooth.. he likes to drink juice from fish can.. but try
to avoid eat a solid food – if he is in a perfect condition, I would have
them pull a tooth right away, because he is an older boy, because he has low
grade heart murmur, because of the past kidney issue, because of high globulin,
the vet thought he might have FIP (though I personally don’t feel that he
has some reasons), I am going back and forth as to what I should do – I
would love to have it pulled if he will go through the surgery ok.. but you
just never know….and I can’t afford to lose him from the surgery -
--any advise?

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









That makes complete sense, Michelle.. I
also have a letter who was written my ex-vet (she was my vet for the pat 10
years and she is now a senior staff at animal service division – I am
hoping that this will help..In the letter, she described me as the excellent
care taker and because of the animals I have is not adoptable throu the animal services,
she ask the city to let me keep the animals….but the city attorney says
that it’s rather casual hearing.. and not so formal.. whatever that
means..

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
1:20 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





No, I don't think it can hurt.  But
it is really important that Hideyo get something from her vet (better if he is
willing to testify in person or write an affidavit, which is a sworn statement)
and from neighbors and local folks familiar with her rescue work.  If she
shows up with only online testimonials, it will look bad.





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





I did wonder that as I began writing mine
last night. Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't
itnot the 12th? Hideyo?    Kerry

RE: Hideyo's court case









I live in Albuquerque,
NM – I think one time, you have given me
a husband and wife’s names who are animal advocates in Hawaii (lawyer and vet??) – I did try
to contact them.. were you sending their name to me because you though I lived
in Hawaii?? 
I am sorry, if that was the case.. I have been living in Albuquerque for the past … 15 year or
so.. now.. do you have any contacts in my area, Michelle?

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:09 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case



 





Really??  I distinctly remember her
talking about HI, and my recommending she contact a friend of mine who is a
lawyer there.  Am I getting senile at age 34?!





 





It would help to know where she is for
sure, since we have contacts in different areas.





 





So, Hideyo, inquiring minds want to
know-- where are you?





 





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:05:26 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Oops, neither Ar or Nv!  I think
you're right, thanks Kerry.
N

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:





Hideyo lives in New
 Mexico, doesn't she--Albuquerque.

RE: Hideyo's court case









Michelle, thank you for your input –
actually I am going to have a couple of different people who are going to
testify on my behalf about the condition of the premise and condition of the
cats - one (in person) and another one (in letter) – One person is from
Animal protection service of NM – she is a friend of mine and I have
worked with her on rescuing cats for the past 4 years, she will write a letter
regarding the condition of animals and condition of the premise so that we have
the information backed up.  She knows everyone who are city officials almost
and her opinion will mean a lot, I hope – also my holistic vet who also
does house visits all the time are going to come with me to testify for the
similar things.  Also animal control officers who have seen my premise was also
impressed how impressive the premise was to accommodate the cats needs –
he said – he never had seen such a wonderful facility for cats though
he will be on the other end, buy my boyfriend who is a lawyer will also testify
that he actually said that so that he can’t use it against me..  I am
also going to have pictures of my animals and the facility so that they can
actually see it.

 

The court date for the permit is 12/19 –
but I also have a criminal complaint on the same issue, I think it’s on
12/13 (bond arrangment??) I am going to plea guilty on this one and Greg says,
if I win on 12/19, the criminal complaint will go away.

 

I would like to get all the support I can
get and take it with me… more is better, and I want to prepare –
anything that characterize my dedication and commitment to my animals will be
helpful, I think.

 

What do you think?

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
12:51 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case



 





As a lawyer, I really can not see how a
testimonial from someone who has never seen the premises would help in any way.
We all know Hideyo cares a lot about her cats and does everything possible for
their health, from her posts, but all a court is really going to care about is
what the premises looks like and testimonials from vets and others who have
actually seen the cats and the care first-hand, I think.  I can't see that
a court would give much credence to the opinion of people on an online listserve. 






Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 2:41:35 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Hideyo,
You haven't mentioned anything about your upcoming court case with 
animal control lately.  Isn't it scheduled for Dec 12th?  How are
your 
preparations going?  If anyone who wanted to, hasn't sent a testimonial 
letter to Hideyo yet, please get on it.  Let us know if there is 
anything else we can do to support you in your fight.
Nina

RE: Hideyo's court case









Yeah.. I would rather not deal with them..
sometimes, they stab you on your back, and I am sort of paranoid whom I should
trust and shouldn’t.. that’s why I really don’t work with a
rescue group.. they can be very political and I don’t like politics..

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
3:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case



 





In that case, Albuquerque has a fairly ok humane society
which has, I think, gone no-kill.  I wonder if someone from there would
help. Though many humane societies have weird ideas about collectors and can
not distinguish between large-scale rescuers and collectors.





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:09:31 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





I mailed her just this year in Albuquerque.

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??









Yeah.. she was another assistant to Mayer
and I called her and she remembered me from Marty (sewer cat) and she asked
me to Denise (associate director of animal care center) from her referral 

I am also a friend of the city attorney
who is going to be against me on 12/19 – he is going to have a off record
conversation about my case --- apparently the city attorney is an easy going,
animal lover … so I am hoping that something will turn into good.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
1:34 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
19th??



 





Good idea.





Michelle





 





In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:32:47 P.M.
Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





I remember a story that Hideyo told us
about a cat caught in a drain, (or some such thing), where the local media and
some local offical was involved.  I suggested that she talk with them and
ask for their help, but I don't know if they have been contacted.
Nina

Re: Hideyo's court case





In that case, Albuquerque has a fairly ok humane society which has, I 
think, gone no-kill.  I wonder if someone from there would help. Though 
many humane societies have weird ideas about collectors and can not distinguish 
between large-scale rescuers and collectors.
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:09:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I mailed her just this year in Albuquerque.

Re: Hideyo's court case





Really??  I distinctly remember her talking about HI, and my 
recommending she contact a friend of mine who is a lawyer there.  Am I 
getting senile at age 34?!
 
It would help to know where she is for sure, since we have contacts in 
different areas.
 
So, Hideyo, inquiring minds want to know-- where are you?
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:05:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oops, 
  neither Ar or Nv!  I think you're right, thanks 
  Kerry.NMacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:
  

Hideyo lives in New Mexico, doesn't 
she--Albuquerque.

RE: Hideyo's court case

Title: Message

I mailed her just this year in
Albuquerque.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, December
08, 2005 4:05 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:
Re: Hideyo's court case

No, Hawaii.
See, this is one reason why a court will not care very much about our
opinions! :)
Michelle
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:03:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hideyo lives in New Mexico, doesn't
she--Albuquerque.

=00IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisorThis email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Hideyo's court case





Oops, neither Ar or Nv!  I think you're right, thanks Kerry.
N

MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote:

  Message
  
  
  Hideyo lives in New Mexico,
doesn't she--Albuquerque.

Re: Hideyo's court case





Actually Hideyo lives in, I think it's AR or NV.  I can't remember
which right now.
N

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  Presto,
     It is possible that your elderly friend, if she is able and
willing to help, could help by visiting Hideyo and talking to her and
then serving as a witness.  If she is respected in the community (i.e.
not in trouble herself for having "too many" animals), her testimony
could help.
  Michelle

Re: Hideyo's court case





No, Hawaii.
 
See, this is one reason why a court will not care very much about our 
opinions! :)
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 5:03:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hideyo lives in New Mexico, doesn't 
  she--Albuquerque.

RE: Hideyo's court case

Title: Message

Hideyo lives in New Mexico, doesn't
she--Albuquerque.

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, December
08, 2005 4:00 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:
Re: Hideyo's court case
Presto,
It is possible that your elderly friend, if she is able and
willing to help, could help by visiting Hideyo and talking to her and then
serving as a witness. If she is respected in the community (i.e. not in
trouble herself for having "too many" animals), her testimony could help.
Michelle
=00IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisorThis email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Hideyo's court case




Presto,
   It is possible that your elderly friend, if she is able and 
willing to help, could help by visiting Hideyo and talking to her and then 
serving as a witness.  If she is respected in the community (i.e. not in 
trouble herself for having "too many" animals), her testimony could help.
Michelle

Re: Nina's Greeting and Question





Presto,
Bottle babies are a great deal of work, but oh so rewarding.  There's
nothing like being mommy to these little tinnies.  So trusting, so
loving and adorable.  They sort of imprint on you the way chicks or
ducklings do.  I'll never forget the first time I realized just how
dependent on my guidance they were...  I had them in our backyard for
some supervised outside play, (they were probably about 8 weeks old at
the time).  I had been expecting a call and when I ran in to answer the
phone, I looked down and all six, (who had been busily playing in
different areas of the yard), were huddled around my feet looking up
expectantly at me, waiting for the cue that the danger had passed. 
They had all raced in with me when they saw my alarm.  Talk about
cute!  Talk about trust!  The feeding regime, that of course has to be
done every couple of hours 'round the clock, seemed to go on forever. 
By the time the last one had been fed and washed, the first was hungry
again!  Happily the soccer world cup games were being televised at the
time, so my husband
didn't mind taking some of the 3am feedings since he was getting up to
watch the games anyway!  I have a couple of short video clips of the
kittens on my website, http://www.companiondogtraining.com/
go take a look.

I never had a urination burn problem.  Hmm, I'm not sure why.  I did
have the help of my dog Vladimir, (surrogate mom extraordinarie).  He
would happily help clean and groom the kittens, so maybe that's why
they didn't get as irritated.  I remember finding the "magic spot" on
my first bottle-baby, Ursula's tiny bladder.  Laying them on their back
and pressing ever so slightly, will send a stream of urine flowing like
a fountain straight into the air which can be caught with a wash cloth
strategically placed!  

I caught myself musing the other day about how nice it would be to
foster, (and I use the word foster lightly!), some litter in need.  (I
was so unhappy knowing I couldn't take in any kittens while I had felv
in the house).  I swear, I must be out of my mind!  That invisible neon
beacon on my front lawn probably has "helpless kittens wanted" written
on it now!

My sister substitute teaches 2nd and 3rd grades.  When she was doing
her student teaching for her credential, she had applied to an Oxnard
district.  She was told that they only hire bi-lingual teachers,
(although they will take male candidates who only speak English
occasionally because they're so scarce).  Was the last time you lived
in Ca 20 years ago?
Nina


Presto wrote:

  
  
  
  Nina, this is incredible. 
Your experiences very closely parallel ours.  The only difference with
the litter is that you received yours much younger, and that there were
six kittens rather than seven.  And your outdoor enclosure, complete
with bedroom window...what parallels!
   
  I greatly admire anyone who
bottlefeeds.  That's a great deal of work.  Cleaning the urine off the
kittens' bellies after they're fed was the part I found frustrating; 
they got urine burns.  How did you handle that?
   
  I'll check out the website; 
thank you.
   
  Ah, Oxnard.  I applied to
their public school system for an elementary teaching job, twenty years
ago.  I applied all over the state of CA.  Oxnard never called me.  I
know CA by public school district.  When I first arrived there, I put a
state map on a corkboard on my wall, and put colored pins in all the
places I applied to for teaching jobs.  Must've been eighty or more. 
It was very hard to get elementary positions back then, as it always is
unless you're a bilingual or special ed teacher.
   
  I'm glad to meet you, Nina!

Re: Hideyo's court case




I'm new to the site, and don't know what 
Hideyo's court case is all about.  But I perked up my ears when Michelle 
mentioned Hawaii.  Perhaps I should have guessed, because of Hideyo's 
Japanese name.  I lived for four years in Honolulu, when I was a graduate 
student, and did rescue work there.  I still have a close friend there, an 
elderly lady with whom I managed a feral colony near the university.  She 
also worked with ferals downtown.  I know a lot about the feline conditions 
in Honolulu.  I also know a fair amount about the Honolulu Humane 
Society (aka pound) as it was twenty years ago, and about most 
Hawaiians' attitudes toward feral and abandoned tamed cats (some of the worst 
attitudes in the country).  And, I'm afraid I can't say anything nice about 
the Honolulu police dept., although things may have changed.
 
Honolulu's cats suffer from horrible afflictions 
that are not seen as often on the mainland, such as hookworm (a horrible way to 
die--it infests the lungs) and mange that can cover most of the body and denude 
it.  Because of the warm climate, the feline reproduction rate is 
high.  The street cats are treated with atrocious cruelty.  Anyone who 
tries to do feline rescue work in HI is fighting a more than usually uphill 
battle.  Within the past year, the HI'n authorities established a policy of 
killing all ferals.  A letter-writing campaign was initiated, but I doubt 
it was effective.  So I don't think things have changed there, and my 
friend keeps me moderately up-to-date.
 
Housing is so incredibly, incredibly expensive, 
and housing space so scarce, in the islands, that anyone doing rescue work will 
end up with overcrowding.  There's no such thing as a low-cost spay-neuter 
program there, because vets have to pay such high rentals on their locations 
that they make it up by jacking up the prices in veterinary care, especially 
spays, which are a major source of income.  
 
In terms of sanitation, the cockroaches are an 
incredible problem, even in the upper floors of highrises.  They've become 
resistant to poisons, and they deposit feces wherever they go, leaving streaks 
and stains.  It's hard not to have a sanitation problem.  
When I lived on the eleventh floor of a highrise, even though I kept my 
efficiency apartment clean and fumigated regularly, I had serious problems with 
them.  Turn on the light at night, and the counters would be covered with 
them.  Open a kitchen cabinet, and they'd fall off the inside of the 
cabinet door onto your head.  When I lived in a ground-floor dwelling, I 
got the big onesWell, you get the idea.  It's the heat and 
humidity.
 
May I help in some way?
 
Presto

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:34 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Hideyo's court case
  
  
  No, I really don't.  Other than fly to Hawaii! I am not trying to 
  belittle the effort at all, and was thinking of writing one myself.  But 
  my lawyer voice prevents me from doing it, because I feel silly as a lawyer 
  writing something that I do not think a court will give credence to.  If 
  you do write something though, this is what I would do: I would, first of all, 
  be sure to explain what this group is, how it focuses on FeLV, and is made up 
  of people from around the world with expertise on caring for cats with 
  FeLV.  I would then explain the type of contact you have had with Hideyo, 
  which in your case Nina I believe includes phone contact too, which makes a 
  letter from you a little stronger than from others on the list, and some 
  details about the extent to which she cares for her cats, and the lengths that 
  she goes to to provide the best treatment available.  I would emphasize 
  the phone contact.
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:29:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Do you 
have any suggestions of how else we might be able to 
  help?Nina

Re: Nina's Greeting and Question




Nina, this is incredible.  Your 
experiences very closely parallel ours.  The only difference with the 
litter is that you received yours much younger, and that there were six kittens 
rather than seven.  And your outdoor enclosure, complete with bedroom 
window...what parallels!
 
I greatly admire anyone who 
bottlefeeds.  That's a great deal of work.  Cleaning the urine off the 
kittens' bellies after they're fed was the part I found frustrating;  they 
got urine burns.  How did you handle that?
 
I'll check out the website;  thank 
you.
 
Ah, Oxnard.  I applied to their 
public school system for an elementary teaching job, twenty years ago.  I 
applied all over the state of CA.  Oxnard never called me.  I know CA 
by public school district.  When I first arrived there, I put a state map 
on a corkboard on my wall, and put colored pins in all the places I applied to 
for teaching jobs.  Must've been eighty or more.  It was very 
hard to get elementary positions back then, as it always is unless you're a 
bilingual or special ed teacher.
 
I'm glad to meet you, Nina!
 
Presto  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nina 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 1:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Nina's Greeting and 
  Question
  Ah Presto, you and Everett sound like our kind of people!  
  We seem to have some things in common, I devote myself to rescuing those 
  animals I can, (not on your scale though!).  I maintain two small 
  colonies of ferals and my house is full of rescues.   I have even 
  enclosed the back of my house, (with bedroom window!), into a "habitat" of 
  safe outdoor space.  I too was introduced to the joys and 
  tribulations of pos through the motherly devotion induced by the sweet 
  innocent needs of a litter of kittens.  I came upon my litter of 6, 2.5 
  week old kittens in a box placed outside the door of a closed spay/neuter 
  clinic.  The poor little angels were near death, starving, bloody from 
  flea infestation and so very pitiful!  I had had experience with bottle 
  feeding and blindly jumped into the task of being surrogate mom to these new 
  additions.  At the time I couldn't figure out why anyone would pull such 
  tiny babies from their mother's breast to abandon them in this way.  When 
  the first of the kittens, Flash, died 6 months later, (we had no experience 
  with felv and never had them tested), I figured that the momma had probably 
  succumbed to felv from the stress of delivery.  We had adopted out 3 of 
  the kittens, (the two that died within their first 8 months had been adopted 
  out to the same home), the other kitten adopted out, (to a dream-home), is 
  still healthy at 2.5 yrs old.  Of the 3 that remained in my home, 2 have 
  passed, Jazz at 18mos and Gracie at almost 2 yrs.  Tim the 6th kitten 
  tested neg and remains healthy, (thank God).We live in Oxnard 
  CA.  There's a site where you can add your name, location and a picture: 
  http://www.frappr.com/felvtalk  
  My husband Bruce and I share our home with 6 dogs and 5 other cats, a nice 
  even dozen.  Although, there is a newcomer to my feral dishes that looks 
  to be a stray so...I'm very glad to have you with us.  I'm sure 
  you have much to contribute and this group is unparalleled in it's compassion 
  and knowledge.  I was close to losing my mind from grief and ignorance 
  when I found the list.  I truly don't know how I would have coped without 
  everyone's support.  Once again, welcome!NinaPresto wrote: 
  



Hi Nina, thank you for welcoming 
us.  I'll describe our arrangements, and how we got 
started.
 
Over three-hundred cats have come 
through my home, wherever it was, in the past twenty years.  In CA, so 
many healthy cats are killed yearly because of overpopulation that I chose 
to have the positives euthanized, so that remained my policy.  In '96, 
we returned from Zaire and moved to MA.  We immediately became 
extensively involved in rescue work.  In '01, a co-director of a humane 
society begged me to take in a litter of 8-wk-old kittens, six of whom had 
tested positive for leukemia.  We were their last chance.  We 
decided to take them.  That was the turning point in our policy.  
Initially, we kept the kittens isolated, but eventually integrated 
them.  The first kitten died at six months;  the last, at 3 yrs. 
10 months.  The seventh is still negative.
 
In the mid-eighties, I took in 
positives, thinking that the Felv vaccine was sufficiently effective to 
protect my other cats.  It wasn't.  That's why I stopped keeping 
positives.  But now, although not foolproof, the vaccination is much 
more effective.
 
We did our rescue work from 
apartments until '03, when we bought a modest house.  We had the 
carpets removed and wall-to-wall vinyl flooring installed throughout the 
house.  The vinyl is imitation marbl

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??

Title: Message



This 
is my recollectionit was a Sunday night when Hideyo heard the piteous meows 
coming from below the street...no one would agree to dig the street up so 
Hideyo, being Hideyo, went straight to the top, contacted the mayor's 
assistant, an animal lover, and the TV peopleand the rescue of the trapped 
cat (along with presumably the "compassion' of the mayor) was 
televised. A win-win situation for allHideyo, can you have the mayor's 
assistant write you a letter and have the mayor sign it?
 
 
 

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of NinaSent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 2:31 
PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Hideyo's 
court case 19th??I remember a story that Hideyo told us 
about a cat caught in a drain, (or some such thing), where the local media and 
some local offical was involved.  I suggested that she talk with them and 
ask for their help, but I don't know if they have been 
contacted.Nina[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  No, I don't think it can hurt.  But it is really important that 
  Hideyo get something from her vet (better if he is willing to testify in 
  person or write an affidavit, which is a sworn statement) and from neighbors 
  and local folks familiar with her rescue work.  If she shows up with only 
  online testimonials, it will look bad.
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  I did wonder that as I began writing mine last 
night. Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't 
itnot the 12th? Hideyo?    
  Kerry
   
=00IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisorThis email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





Good idea.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:32:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I 
  remember a story that Hideyo told us about a cat caught in a drain, (or some 
  such thing), where the local media and some local offical was involved.  
  I suggested that she talk with them and ask for their help, but I don't know 
  if they have been contacted.Nina

Re: Hideyo's court case





No, I really don't.  Other than fly to Hawaii! I am not trying to 
belittle the effort at all, and was thinking of writing one myself.  But my 
lawyer voice prevents me from doing it, because I feel silly as a lawyer writing 
something that I do not think a court will give credence to.  If you do 
write something though, this is what I would do: I would, first of all, be sure 
to explain what this group is, how it focuses on FeLV, and is made up of people 
from around the world with expertise on caring for cats with FeLV.  I would 
then explain the type of contact you have had with Hideyo, which in your case 
Nina I believe includes phone contact too, which makes a letter from you a 
little stronger than from others on the list, and some details about the extent 
to which she cares for her cats, and the lengths that she goes to to provide the 
best treatment available.  I would emphasize the phone contact.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:29:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do you 
  have any suggestions of how else we might be able to 
help?Nina

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??

Title: Message

Agreed. Unlike myself (for instance), Hideyo
is in the fortunate (though not in the least bit surprising!) position
of having credible, authoritative animal experts on her side ---the vet turned
animal agency director comes to mind--who have already let her know what a great
job she does. Hideyo, have they agreed to support you on the 19th by letter
or in person? (I cannot imagine they would not.)

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, December
08, 2005 2:20 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:
Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??

No, I don't think it can hurt. But it is really important that Hideyo
get something from her vet (better if he is willing to testify in person or
write an affidavit, which is a sworn statement) and from neighbors and local
folks familiar with her rescue work. If she shows up with only online
testimonials, it will look bad.
Michelle
In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I did wonder that as I began writing mine last night.
Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't itnot the
12th? Hideyo? Kerry

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





I remember a story that Hideyo told us about a cat caught in a drain,
(or some such thing), where the local media and some local offical was
involved.  I suggested that she talk with them and ask for their help,
but I don't know if they have been contacted.
Nina

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  No, I don't think it can hurt.  But it is really important that
Hideyo get something from her vet (better if he is willing to testify
in person or write an affidavit, which is a sworn statement) and from
neighbors and local folks familiar with her rescue work.  If she shows
up with only online testimonials, it will look bad.
  Michelle
   
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I did wonder that as I began
writing mine last night. Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the
19th isn't itnot the 12th? Hideyo?    Kerry

Re: Hideyo's court case





I'm not sure if it would help either.  There may be no credence to our
opinions at all.  I am hoping that some consideration of why Hideyo has
so many cats, along with substantiation of the living conditions she
can provide, might have some sway.  Yes, letters from people that
attest to Hideyo's character, without first hand knowledge of her
circumstances aren't concrete, but a stack of such testimonials might
still have some tiny influence.  Hideyo deserves our support and this
is the only thing I can think to do.  Do you have any suggestions of
how else we might be able to help?
Nina

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  As a lawyer, I really can not see how a testimonial from someone
who has never seen the premises would help in any way. We all know
Hideyo cares a lot about her cats and does everything possible for
their health, from her posts, but all a court is really going to care
about is what the premises looks like and testimonials from vets and
others who have actually seen the cats and the care first-hand, I
think.  I can't see that a court would give much credence to the
opinion of people on an online listserve.  
  Michelle

Re: Hideyo's court case 19th??





No, I don't think it can hurt.  But it is really important that Hideyo 
get something from her vet (better if he is willing to testify in person or 
write an affidavit, which is a sworn statement) and from neighbors and local 
folks familiar with her rescue work.  If she shows up with only online 
testimonials, it will look bad.
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I did wonder that as I began writing mine last night. 
  Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't itnot the 
  12th? Hideyo?    Kerry

RE: Hideyo's court case 19th??

Title: Message



I did wonder that as I began writing mine 
last night. Still, it can't hurt--or can it? And, it's the 19th isn't 
itnot the 12th? Hideyo?    Kerry

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, December 
08, 2005 1:51 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: 
Re: Hideyo's court case

As a lawyer, I really can not see how a testimonial from someone who has 
never seen the premises would help in any way. We all know Hideyo cares a lot 
about her cats and does everything possible for their health, from her posts, 
but all a court is really going to care about is what the premises looks like 
and testimonials from vets and others who have actually seen the cats and the 
care first-hand, I think.  I can't see that a court would give much 
credence to the opinion of people on an online listserve.  
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 2:41:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hideyo,You haven't 
  mentioned anything about your upcoming court case with animal control 
  lately.  Isn't it scheduled for Dec 12th?  How are your 
  preparations going?  If anyone who wanted to, hasn't sent a 
  testimonial letter to Hideyo yet, please get on it.  Let us know if 
  there is anything else we can do to support you in your 
  fight.Nina

 
=00IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisorThis email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Hideyo's court case





As a lawyer, I really can not see how a testimonial from someone who has 
never seen the premises would help in any way. We all know Hideyo cares a lot 
about her cats and does everything possible for their health, from her posts, 
but all a court is really going to care about is what the premises looks like 
and testimonials from vets and others who have actually seen the cats and the 
care first-hand, I think.  I can't see that a court would give much 
credence to the opinion of people on an online listserve.  
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 2:41:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hideyo,You haven't mentioned anything about your upcoming court 
  case with animal control lately.  Isn't it scheduled for Dec 
  12th?  How are your preparations going?  If anyone who wanted 
  to, hasn't sent a testimonial letter to Hideyo yet, please get on 
  it.  Let us know if there is anything else we can do to support you 
  in your fight.Nina

Hideyo's court case


Hideyo,
You haven't mentioned anything about your upcoming court case with 
animal control lately.  Isn't it scheduled for Dec 12th?  How are your 
preparations going?  If anyone who wanted to, hasn't sent a testimonial 
letter to Hideyo yet, please get on it.  Let us know if there is 
anything else we can do to support you in your fight.

Nina

Re: OT:help with my dilemma

i was thinking something similar re: a less-than-total anesthesia--if
the root is showing already, it may not be that firmly embedded
don't know how they go about that, tho

but it's equally true that hannibal MUST be able to eat, and the
possible systemic consequences of NOT treating an infection might be
worse in the long tun.. i don't know what to advise, tho  as
any surgery, even in an apparently healthy cat, can be
life-threatening

(not very helpful, huh?)
--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: OT:help with my dilemma





Hideyo,
That's a tough call with Hannibal.  How wonderful that his blood work
is all in the normal range now!  You're such a good mom!  Did I
understand you correctly, that Hannibal only has one tooth left in his
head?  How can he eat anything solid with one tooth?  It's alarming
that he's lost two pounds over a two month period.  I know how special
Hannibal is and how scary it is to subject him to surgery, but if he
won't eat because he's in pain...   I wish I had some advice for you,
these decisions are never easy.  If he is in pain because the root of
the tooth is exposed, (and not because the tooth is impacted/infected),
might he benefit from some sort of topical fluoride treatment?  Using
fluoride on exposed roots reduce and sometimes eliminate pain.  I know
there are prescription fluoride rinses for humans, maybe they could be
used on cats?
Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Hi, everyone – I am in
dilemma and I need your
opinions.
  My Hannibal who has had
kidney problem might need to get his
tooth pulled out – he only had one tooth left, but the root is showing
and it’s hurting him as he grows after the food touch his tooth.  He is
an older feral boy, and has kidney problem (thought this very last
blood work
showed that everything is back into the normal range – yeah – I have
been giving him fluid a couple of times a week along with V-B12 and
complex
injections).. anyway, he had lost a couple of pounds since the last
check up
which was two months ago, and am thinking that it might be due to his
tooth..
he likes to drink juice from fish can.. but try to avoid eat a solid
food –
if he is in a perfect condition, I would have them pull a tooth right
away,
because he is an older boy, because he has low grade heart murmur,
because of
the past kidney issue, because of high globulin, the vet thought he
might have
FIP (though I personally don’t feel that he has some reasons), I am
going
back and forth as to what I should do – I would love to have it pulled
if
he will go through the surgery ok.. but you just never know….and I
can’t
afford to lose him from the surgery - --any advise?

Re: OT:help with my dilemma





I have gone through similar decisions with my positives.  Ginger 
stopped eating and I thought it was from her bad teeth but was not sure, and did 
not know whether to put her through tooth-pulling. I did, and they pulled 10 
teeth at one time, and she got a really bad URI afterwards. But when she pulled 
through that, at last, she was able to eat again.  Now, only 7 months 
later, the gums over her remaining teeth are bright red and I notice her chewing 
less and i am unsure whether to bring her to a dentist or not. And Patches, also 
positive, has two broken teeth that the vet says need to come out, but she is 
eating so, even if the teeth hurt her, I have been afraid of putting her through 
the surgery.
 
All of which is to say, I don't know.  The thing to keep in mind, 
though, is that a bad tooth can actually cause kidney problems or make them 
worse, as bacteria and other stuff gets into the blood stream through the bad 
tooth's root and needs to be processed by the kidneys. Also, not eating enough 
can make the kidneys worse.
 
Have you asked if it is possible, given the heart murmer and that it is 
only one tooth, to pull it under heavy but not complete sedation with local 
painkillers and anesthetics?  If that is possible, I think I would do 
it.
 
How old is he?
 
Michelle
 
In a message dated 12/8/2005 2:18:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  Hi, everyone – I am in dilemma and 
  I need your opinions.
  My Hannibal who has had kidney 
  problem might need to get his tooth pulled out – he only had one tooth left, 
  but the root is showing and it’s hurting him as he grows after the food touch 
  his tooth.  He is an older feral boy, and has kidney problem (thought 
  this very last blood work showed that everything is back into the normal range 
  – yeah – I have been giving him fluid a couple of times a week along with 
  V-B12 and complex injections).. anyway, he had lost a couple of pounds since 
  the last check up which was two months ago, and am thinking that it might be 
  due to his tooth.. he likes to drink juice from fish can.. but try to avoid 
  eat a solid food – if he is in a perfect condition, I would have them pull a 
  tooth right away, because he is an older boy, because he has low grade heart 
  murmur, because of the past kidney issue, because of high globulin, the vet 
  thought he might have FIP (though I personally don’t feel that he has some 
  reasons), I am going back and forth as to what I should do – I would love to 
  have it pulled if he will go through the surgery ok.. but you just never 
  know….and I can’t afford to lose him from the surgery - --any 
  advise?

OT:help with my dilemma









Hi, everyone – I am in dilemma and I need your
opinions.

My Hannibal who has had kidney problem might need to get his
tooth pulled out – he only had one tooth left, but the root is showing
and it’s hurting him as he grows after the food touch his tooth.  He is
an older feral boy, and has kidney problem (thought this very last blood work
showed that everything is back into the normal range – yeah – I have
been giving him fluid a couple of times a week along with V-B12 and complex
injections).. anyway, he had lost a couple of pounds since the last check up
which was two months ago, and am thinking that it might be due to his tooth..
he likes to drink juice from fish can.. but try to avoid eat a solid food –
if he is in a perfect condition, I would have them pull a tooth right away,
because he is an older boy, because he has low grade heart murmur, because of
the past kidney issue, because of high globulin, the vet thought he might have
FIP (though I personally don’t feel that he has some reasons), I am going
back and forth as to what I should do – I would love to have it pulled if
he will go through the surgery ok.. but you just never know….and I can’t
afford to lose him from the surgery - --any advise?

Re: General Thanks and Questions

2005-12-08 Thread Mari Kolbe

Michelle:
 
I second your sentiments, exactly.  
/mari 
On 12/7/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Tad,
   I am overwhelmed both by your loss of Callie after so many losses, and by finding out how many cats you have saved and given a good life to.  It is truly amazing.  I hope that you are able to know very clearly in your heart, through all the losses, what an amazing gift you have given and are giving these cats.  I know that it is hard to truly feel that when you are losing them and feeling so powerless to help them in the end, but from the outside it is completely clear.  Thank you for doing so much good in this world.

 
Michelle-- /mari (SpiritCat)Until there are none, adopt one.SpiritCat and the Mooseheart Mumpkeesof southeastern Texas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Just Ducky

Ducky is a tuxie/tabby!  My newest "arrival", Pistol Pete, is a 
tuxie/tabby too!  Way too cute!

N

Rachel wrote:

She's about 6-8 months old and she is tabby on top and white on the 
bottom.

Very cute!!

Re: Pictures of Maizee





Oh Sherry!  Your Maizee Grace is/was so adorable!  She stole my heart
with just her picture, I can certainly see why you were so devoted. 
What a doll.
N

Sherry DeHaan wrote:

  Hi all I put a few pics up of Maizee in the
Rainbow bridge album at the OT web.Just wanted to share her sweet face
with you great and caring people.
  Sherry
   
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Re: Sammy and interferon-- for Helene




Helene,
   I was so impressed by reading about Sammy's recovery and 
weight gain. I am wondering what his symptoms were when he was sick. I assume he 
was anemic due to the procrit; if so, how low did his hematocrit or rbc 
go?  What were the other symptoms?  I am used to thinking that severe 
anemia and weight loss are probably lymphoma-related and not possible to fully 
recover from.  I have been pondering your description of Sammy's recovery 
and really want to know all the symptoms he had and the extent of them.  It 
is possible that the mix of remedies you used is something none of us has tried 
(I have never tried that combination of things, and I have tried a lot), and I 
want to know what it is that you so successfully managed and cured, 
symptom-wise.
Thanks so much for any info you can provide,
Michelle

Re: Callie...Its sad news

Oh Tad, I'm so very sorry about Callie.  I know it's hard to see the 
blessings when you're in so much pain, but it is a blessing that she was 
strong and well up until her last days.  That's the way I would choose 
to go, if I were given a choice.  She sounds like such a special girl, 
and you were her special human!  It's so hard to let go.  It never gets 
easier.  I don't know how you do it Tad, you have such an enormous 
heart.  Every cat that finds sanctuary in your loving home is so very 
fortunate.  I so admire you and Marie for all you do.  No one knows 
better than you the heartache and joy involved in so generously loving 
and caring for these "forgotten" angels.  There's so much I admire about 
you.  I love the way you except every cat as an individual, never 
pressuring them to conform to some imagined standard of how they 
"should" be, or how you expect them to interact.  Prayers and sympathy 
to you, Marie and your household in your grief.  May the joyous memories 
soon overshadow your tears,

Much love,
Nina

Tad Burnett wrote:


She was so strong and well just yesterday morning that part of me
wanted to believe that she would bounce back but when I found her
this morning on the floor and she did a terrible cry when I picked her
up I knew that something was terrible wrong with her...

The blood test showed kidney function had stopped and the vet
said that she had so little blood in her vains that he suspected
internal bleeding probably in the liver...

When I brought her to the vet this morning she could barely hold
her head up for a short time and after being at the vets all day and
having sub Q liquid all day which is probably what kept her alive
she was even weeker...The vet felt she was probably in pain and
didn't think anything would bring her back so we sent her on ahead
to the Rainbow Bridge

Callie was a feisty little calico...She was reported at AW to be hard
to medicate and when she arrived here we learned that she would
only let you touch her for a few seconds and then you better let her 
go...

We learned where the limits were and soon she began to trust us and
Marie did better with some of the other AW cats than I but Callie
definitely chose meNow that I think of it she was never close to
any of the other cats but she was always with me whenever I was around...
She new when I was putting on clothes to go outside and meow and meow
and she would be waiting at the door for me when I came back in...
A few time that she did sneak out with me she let me catch her and if
I would tell her NO as I when out she would sit there and wait

Right now she would be sleeping on top of the monitor while I am
on the computerShe was such a good friend to me and she had
so much personality...She had some hard times during her life but
she was happy and loved here at the end...I only wish she could
have stayed longerI can't believe she is gone so soon
I will miss her for a long time...

That leaves 4 of the original 6 from AWOJ has never been a
totally healthy kitty...He has had to stay on antibiotics for several
bacterial types of infections and he has never played and raced around
the way some of the others do but he has always been a big purr and
snuggle bunAnd antibiotics is easy to keep them going...Both OJ and
Fred who is my first FeLV+ kitty who gums seem to get infected when
I take him off antibiotics...He only has a few teeth left now...I have 
had

Fred well over 2 years...I have had several worries over Fred and OJ
and they are both special buddies so I can't complain ... They are
still hereI guess this is just the way it was meant to be

Tad and Marie

Just Ducky

2005-12-08 Thread Rachel

She's about 6-8 months old and she is tabby on top and white on the bottom.  Very cute!!  From: Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: Just Ducky To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgMessage-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Congratulations Rachel! And that's a fabulous name, I love it! What does she look like?

Rachel 

"Folk will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog"  C. Doran
	
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Re: Nina's Greeting and Question