RE: offlist

[Colby]

I've been trying to get off this list for about 5 months now, and the mail wont 
stop.  CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP EMAILING ME?!!

 
  "To acheive true peace, we must first look at ourselves, for the true path to 
enlightenment starts from within."
  
Colby Hardison

RE: offlist

[Kat]

Hi Colby,

If you go to this website:
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
You can unsubscribe from this list by enetering your email and clicking on
the "Unsubscribe" button.

Hope that helps.
Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007, Colby wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Colby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: RE: offlist
> 
> I've been trying to get off this list for about 5 months now, and the mail 
> wont stop.  CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP EMAILING 
> ME?!!
> 
>  
>   "To acheive true peace, we must first look at ourselves, for the true path 
> to enlightenment starts from within."
>   
> Colby Hardison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: seeking home for adult feluk positive cat - family doesn't care about him

[Sally Davis]

HI Jeni

I guess the number one question is, where is this cat?

sally


On 9/27/07, JENI RECA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Seeking home for an adult feluk positive cat (this is not my cat). Male,
> neutered, grey and white, 4 year old cat named scooter.  Family especially
> the wife wants to get rid of cat.  Cat has been living mostly outdoors, due
> to the fact he doesn't always use his litter box, though has been using it
> since the wife sent the rug out for a cleaning.  Wife doesn't like the cat
> and doesn't really care for it.  Tested positive on elisa and IFA.  Urine
> tested and nothing unusal, possibly behavioral problemn (with rug?  the wife
> will not listen to suggestions).  Will bring cat to the vet for blood test
> and another wellness check before giving him to a new home.  He needs
> someone to finally love him and care for him.  Very nice cat.  Willing to
> travel, food, toys and carrier will be included with him.  He lives in the
> new york area.  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Have contacted other
> rescues and sanctuaries but no response.
> Thank you
> Jeni
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
> Spaces. It's easy! Try 
> it!
>



-- 
Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little
Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and  Spike  Visit my BB for some pictures post
your as well.

http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3

RE: offlist

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

Colby, on the 1st of every month the administrator sends an email to the
list that includes details of how to unsubscribe.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Colby
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:19 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: offlist


I've been trying to get off this list for about 5 months now, and the
mail wont stop.  CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP EMAILING
ME?!!


 
"To acheive true peace, we must first look at ourselves, for the true
path to enlightenment starts from within."

Colby Hardison






_
Effective September 1, 2007, we have changed our name to Mayer Brown LLP.
 
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was 
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer Brown LLP to be used and 
cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that 
may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax 
advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, 
investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written 
to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer Brown LLP) 
of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based 
on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. 
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of 
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named 
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: offlist

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

Colby, if you're still here, it looks like you need a little of that
true peace yourself.  Saying "please" when you're yelling doesn't mean
you're being anything but rude.  You apparently subscribed, you have to
unsubscribe yourself.  *Please* get a grip.
 
Diane R.
 
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Colby
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:19 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: offlist


I've been trying to get off this list for about 5 months now, and the
mail wont stop.  CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP EMAILING
ME?!!


 
"To acheive true peace, we must first look at ourselves, for the true
path to enlightenment starts from within."

This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may 
be privileged.  
They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient.  If you have 
received this 
transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the 
transmission from 
your system.  In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we 
are required to 
inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, 
any advice we 
provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or 
submissions is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax 
penalties.

We are not vets

[Melissa Lind]

I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
give your advice to the contrary.

 

This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are
still arguing about this! Enough already.

 

Melissa

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

 

you are prescribing medicine without a license.

On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft applause, 
   Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
 Trajan Tennent




- Original Message -
From: "Kat" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM 
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question


Hi Caroline,

They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi.  It tends to wipe out
the good gut bacteria with the baddies.  Try adding some probiotics to
their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help 
rebuild the good gut bacteria.

Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:

> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400
> From: Caroline Kaufmann < 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Subject: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
> I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site
> adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday.  He was bigger and
> totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
> instigator and a bad influence on the other ones.  He was a  B/W little
> Kittler, so it figures!
> Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea?  And 
> I don't know what the cause is?  I'm not doing anything different with
> them.  They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic
> dry kitten.  Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the 
> a.m., and the same in the evening.  When I leave for work, after they have
> eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because
> they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some 
> food.  They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their
> waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get
> home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered "coop

> cups" from Revival, so these should solve that problem).
> On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and
> Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now).  In the pm, I do 
> the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each.
> I just placed an order for "Just B

RE: offlist

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

>>>It just 
seems like if everyone is really so concerned about all the kitties out
there 
in the world, they would stay on this list just to possibly save a few
more of 
them, even if those kitties belong to people you don't agree with. <<<

It's important to stress that people did not leave because of others
"not agreeing" with them. They left as a result of quite unwarranted
personal attack, that began with just one person, then spread like a
contagion. 
As one of these remarkable people-- and, remember they themselves were
usually in the same desperate situation of doing everything they could
to save their very sick pets -- said, just by mere dint of the fact that
this is a feline leukemia list, people on the list are
vulnerable---they're scared for their dying animals. To be insensitive
to that fact, and disrespectful to one's co-members, is plain
unacceptable. Free speech or not. 
It costs nothing to engage brain before tapping keyboard and hitting
send.
A practical and important point: every email sent to the list, the Qs
and the As, is archived. Since most of the questions asked on the list
have already been asked and patiently answered over and over again --
remember, the people who left the list were among the kindest and most
supportive and responsive people imaginable, acutely aware of the
vulnerability and desperation of new members with newly diagnosed FeLV
cats -- the archive is a truly invaluable resource. I would strongly
encourage all new members to check out the archives.
If anyone would like me to give them some of the names of highly
experienced and well-informed former listmembers to look out for in the
archives in order to narrow down the material, please email me off list
and I'll be happy to oblige.
Kerry M.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan
Heikkinen
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:23 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: RE: offlist

Of course it isn't a job. It's an online mailing list intended for
sharing of 
information and support. In no way whatsoever is it like a job. If it
feels 
like one, something is wrong. Really, being on this list and responding
to 
people should not take up that much time, unless you let it. If you DO
spend a 
lot of time helping people, then that shows what a good, caring person
you 
are. But in no way is anyone obligated to spend hours responding to
every 
single question. No one is really obligated to do anything on here, but
people 
do because they care.

Because this is an online list, it's really, really easy to ignore
people. 
It's also very, very easy to speak your mind. Internet drama is so easy
to 
spark up. 
I've seen it many a time before. The point is, yes, things said on here
can 
get people pissed off or upset. And I understand, it's not fun doing all
that 
hard work out in the real world and then coming home to see all of this 
animosity in your mailbox. It can be exhausting. If it truly is a
"toxic" 
environment, then leaving would probably be a good idea. It would just
be a 
damn shame to lose people simply because everyone can't get along. It
just 
seems like if everyone is really so concerned about all the kitties out
there 
in the world, they would stay on this list just to possibly save a few
more of 
them, even if those kitties belong to people you don't agree with.

-Megan

>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>But this isn't anyone's *job*.  Yes, there has been talk on other
>lists about what will happen to the newbies here without the benefit
>of many of the people who have left.  But if someone finds it a toxic
>environment I'm not going to tell them it is their responsibility to
>be somewhere they find unpleasant.  Most of us work in rescue, or have
>multiple sick cats, etc and have a very low tolerance for the stuff
>that has been going on here lately.
_
Effective September 1, 2007, we have changed our name to Mayer Brown LLP.
 
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was 
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer Brown LLP to be used and 
cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that 
may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax 
advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, 
investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written 
to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer Brown LLP) 
of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based 
on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. 
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of 
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named 
a

Hello and Goodby

[Sheila Smith]

I live with 19 felv+ cats in my home, I am an RN and my husband is a
veterinarian specializing in cats and a focus on Felv cats. 

I just got around to joining the list last night after it was suggested a
few weeks ago by my friend Susan Dubose that I might have good resources and
knowledge to offer the group (and just might learn a thing or two myself).
However, it looks like a lot has been going on since that time.  

But the last thing I am going to do is spend more than the two minutes it is
going to take me to write this note and unsubscribe (thank you for the
information below)or to be in a negative environment.  I have never been on
a group where someone has been attacked so personally for their views. Who
needs that? Too busy.

For the record, anyone that intentionally mixes Felv cats with non Felv cats
under anything but the rarest of circumstances is not an animal advocate- no
excuses- they don't have the animals welfare in mind. 

And for declawing cats- well, down here in Austin- we laugh at "wannabe"
groups that call themselves "rescue" and function on the fringes of the
mainstream organizations but we cry for the cats they have mutilated so they
can hurry up and get them adopted. 

But to do this as a routine procedure as part of intake is reprehensible and
a whole different category of disdain!

Our veterinary hospital feels so strongly about declawing that we do not
offer declaw as a service unless it is for medical reasons ( a particular
toe may have to have its claw taken out b/c of injury, trauma, etc)

Best to all of you that are trying to keep this group on topic and refrain
from personal attacks. I would advise you all to establish some guidelines
and perhaps moderate the group for awhile b/c you are going to lose a lot of
good people that can offer some good information when they see what can
happen to "them" should they stray from the mainstream agenda.

Maybe I will see you on the "other" list.

Best,

Sincerely,
Sheila Smith
www.shadowcats.net
Austin
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:14 AM
To: Colby
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: offlist

Hi Colby,

If you go to this website:
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
You can unsubscribe from this list by enetering your email and clicking on
the "Unsubscribe" button.

Hope that helps.
Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007, Colby wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Colby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: RE: offlist
> 
> I've been trying to get off this list for about 5 months now, and the mail
wont stop.  CAN YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP EMAILING
ME?!!
> 
>  
>   "To acheive true peace, we must first look at ourselves, for the true
path to enlightenment starts from within."
>   
> Colby Hardison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

RE: seeking home for adult feluk positive cat - family doesn't careabout him

[Melissa Lind]

Jeni,

 

So sorry to hear about a person who won't listen to suggestions. Usually it
is the owner's problem, not the cat's, that causes these issues. I know
she's not listening, but really, you have to tell her my experience. My
Bandit (10 years old now) was peeing in the heat vent last winter. That was
very unpleasant, but I didn't kick him out. I tried everything I could think
of and took many suggestions. However, the final cure was very very very
simple. The vet prescribed fluoxetine which is kitty Prozac. It didn't make
Bandit dopey or drugged up. It merely took away his anxiety-the cause of his
non-litter box piddles. The vet said that there would probably be no way to
tell what was stressing him out, but that he was clearly anxious. 

 

It sounds to me as if this lady is just intensifying the situation with her
anxiety as well. I completely understand how it feels to be so frustrated by
the smell of cat urine-imagine it in your heat vent in winter! But sometimes
the solution is so very simple. The meds cost me $6 a month. That's it!
Problem solved. If kitty already has a home, see if you can influence her to
try one last thing. There are so many kitties without homes, and most people
who take in kitties already have a houseful (as most people on this list).

 

However, if you're still desperate, try Best Friends in Utah. That's where I
took my FeLV+ kitty since I had no facilities at my house to separate him
from the others. He was accepted there, but I understand that getting in is
difficult. You can give it a try. http://www.bestfriends.org
  But, if this is a one-cat household where
they could love kitty if he just went in the right spot, he deserves to be
given a chance. If he goes to a sanctuary, his chances of adoption are slim
because of his FeLV status. But, if you don't think they'll take good care
of him..

 

Of course, the litter box avoidance could be due to so many other factors
such as a dislike for the brand of litter, a litter box that is not cleaned
frequently enough, a UTI which causes him to feel like he has to go all the
time (that burning feeling), or many other things. But, in my experience it
was a very simple and easy fix. I'm not exaggerating when I say it worked
overnight. One day he was peeing in the heat vent (or on the plastic we used
to cover it); the next day he stopped after the Prozac. Now I hardly ever
give it to him anymore, but he was on it for probably 6 months straight.
That's like $36. Much cheaper than a new rug or heat duct or whatever.

 

Good luck-keep looking for resources. It's difficult. It's great that you
are trying to help these people. You sound compassionate. Please keep in
mind that I am not a vet, and I am only telling you my story. Each case is
naturally different; plus you won't be able to get the drugs without the
approval of a vet anyway.

 

Melissa

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JENI RECA
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: seeking home for adult feluk positive cat - family doesn't
careabout him 

 

Hi,
 
Seeking home for an adult feluk positive cat (this is not my cat). Male,
neutered, grey and white, 4 year old cat named scooter.  Family especially
the wife wants to get rid of cat.  Cat has been living mostly outdoors, due
to the fact he doesn't always use his litter box, though has been using it
since the wife sent the rug out for a cleaning.  Wife doesn't like the cat
and doesn't really care for it.  Tested positive on elisa and IFA.  Urine
tested and nothing unusal, possibly behavioral problemn (with rug?  the wife
will not listen to suggestions).  Will bring cat to the vet for blood test
and another wellness check before giving him to a new home.  He needs
someone to finally love him and care for him.  Very nice cat.  Willing to
travel, food, toys and carrier will be included with him.  He lives in the
new york area.  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Have contacted other
rescues and sanctuaries but no response.
Thank you
Jeni 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  _  

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces. It's easy! Try it!
 

RE: OT: Kitten Question

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

Mary Christine, I don't agree with everything Susan has said or the way
she has said it, but in this case 
she has no more overstepped the bounds than anyone else who answers a
question by saying "you should 
try immunoregulin" or "sounds like anemia".  Obviously Caroline can't
print off Susan's e-mail and run to a
pharmacy with it, so she's not "prescribing."  
 
Diane R.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question


you are prescribing medicine without a license.


On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal
poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can
start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct
for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause
liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that
makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea,
which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary
moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will
give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as
usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side did
wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft
applause, 
   Ever guarding with sharpened
claws."
 Trajan Tennent




- Original Message -
From: "Kat" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM 
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question


Hi Caroline,

They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi.  It tends
to wipe out
the good gut bacteria with the baddies.  Try adding some
probiotics to
their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to
help 
rebuild the good gut bacteria.

Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:

> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400
> From: Caroline Kaufmann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Subject: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
> I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to
the on-site
> adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday.  He was
bigger and
> totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he
was the
> instigator and a bad influence on the other ones.  He was a
B/W little
> Kittler, so it figures!
> Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of
diarrhea?  And 
> I don't know what the cause is?  I'm not doing anything
different with
> them.  They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle
Pack Holistic
> dry kitten.  Each gets about a half of the small can of
Wellness in the 
> a.m., and the same in the evening.  When I leave for work,
after they have
> eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free
choice because
> they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave
them with some 
> food.  They are all drinking water fine, except for when they
tip their
> waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am
able to get
> home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just
ordered "coop 
> cups" from Revival, so these should solve that problem).
> On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form
powder and
> Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now).  In
the pm, I do 
> the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about
290 mgs each.
> I just placed an order for "Just Born wit

Books, Lists and Other Resources

[Susan Ang]

What are some other resources people use? I was surprised to find there
aren't any books on FeLV - at least none I could find. Are there other
places out there on the web that people frequent for info? I'm one of those
people who read and read and read on a subject that bothers me. I am working
on finding a holistic vet for Autumn.
I just want to learn as much as I can. Any responses are appreciated:-)
Autumn is doing great - so playful. My husband and I just worry she might
get sick again once the antibiotics stop. Her lymph nodes seem to stay a bit
swollen, though not as much as they had been.
~Susan  A.

Remove me from this list

[Debi Holmes]

Please remove my email address from this email list!
   
   

   
-
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, 
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RE: Remove me from this list

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

Please see replies to similar request earlier.  You have to unsubscribe
yourself.

 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debi Holmes
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:33 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Remove me from this list


Please remove my email address from this email list!
 
 



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RE: Books, Lists and Other Resources

[Melissa Lind]

I'm interested too Susan, so I hope you find something. I'm very happy for
Autumn! I'll keep my fingers (and all our paws at home) crossed for her.

 

Melissa

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Ang
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:23 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Books, Lists and Other Resources

 

What are some other resources people use? I was surprised to find there
aren't any books on FeLV - at least none I could find. Are there other
places out there on the web that people frequent for info? I'm one of those
people who read and read and read on a subject that bothers me. I am working
on finding a holistic vet for Autumn. 
I just want to learn as much as I can. Any responses are appreciated:-)
Autumn is doing great - so playful. My husband and I just worry she might
get sick again once the antibiotics stop. Her lymph nodes seem to stay a bit
swollen, though not as much as they had been. 
~Susan  A. 

RE: Remove me from this list

[Melissa Lind]

I think you have to remove yourself:

 

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/options/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debi Holmes
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:33 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Remove me from this list

 

Please remove my email address from this email list!

 

 

  

  _  

Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet

in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. 

Kitten Update

[Caroline Kaufmann]

My three kittens are status-quo.  I started them on a probiotic made by Eagle 
Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and we're still 
having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!).  I don't know how long it 
takes the probiotic to work though?  I have talked to the volunteer of the 
Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I needed to obtain 
approval from before taking in a stool sample.  She said she doubts it's 
coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown up earlier because 
she had them at her house for a while before I took them in.  Their exposure at 
my house is minimal to non-existent, unlike at hers where she has I don't know 
how many cats (20-30?)- and older ones with chronic damage from URI's and god 
knows what else and she lets them all mingle freely and share food and litter- 
tiny orphaned kittens straight from Animal Control with adult cats?is why I 
ended up with them).  All I have is my one year old Izzee and Izzee has free 
reign of the house, while the kittens are crated.  They do not use Izzee's 
litter box or eat her food and vice versa.  They do not go outside, although I 
do have a screened in, concrete and brick front porch they play on when they 
get play time.
So, I still don't really know what's going on?  I decided to give it more time. 
 The adoption agency is dropping off another probiotic that they use and I will 
try that one tonight.  
Yoda- who seems to have to worst of the diarrhea, this a.m., he seemed to have 
gone again, but when I checked the litter box, for the first time, his stool 
was really runny and much less stool than it was a mucousy substance.  There 
wasn't a lot of it, but that kind of worried me because it's "new."  I did get 
approval to drop off one stool sample for analysis at the vet's if the diarrhea 
continues (I will take Yoda's since he has his own crate and seems to be a 
little worse), so at least I can do that tomorrow morning if it's still 
happening.
Otherwise, they are their usual maniac-selves-- eating and playing machines!  
But now they are really stinking up my house so I have got to beat this 
diarrhea!  We are moving in with my mom in a little over a week (long story- 
mostly to help her out for a year with paying her mortgage and getting her 
house into shape so we can move her to a smaller place now that she's turning 
65) and she is not going to be happy about the stinky poo!
-Caroline
_
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Re: Kitten Update

[Kelley Saveika]

On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My three kittens are status-quo.  I started them on a probiotic made by
> Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
> we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!).  I don't
> know how long it takes the probiotic to work though?  I have talked to the
> volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
> needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample.  She said
> she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
> up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
> in.

That isn't necessarily true.  Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

You need to get approval??   Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
their houses, by the way.  They kill close to 70% of the cats that
come in to our local kill shelter.
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Re: Books, Lists and Other Resources

[Lance]

Susan,

I like _The New Natural Cat_ by Anitra Frazier. I don't agree with
everything that she says, for example,
how she views feeding, but that's just my take on it. It's still an
excellent book. As with anything you
read here, it's a good idea to discuss anything you'd like to pursue
that you read in the book with an 
allopathic or homeopathic vet.

You might also consider joining this Yahoo! group:



I co-mod the list with several others, and while it's quiet sometimes,
it's been more active over the
last few months. I check it daily to see if there are any new posts that
need replies.


Lance


On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:23:19 -0500, "Susan Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
> What are some other resources people use? I was surprised to find there
> aren't any books on FeLV - at least none I could find. Are there other
> places out there on the web that people frequent for info? I'm one of
> those
> people who read and read and read on a subject that bothers me. I am
> working
> on finding a holistic vet for Autumn.
> I just want to learn as much as I can. Any responses are appreciated:-)
> Autumn is doing great - so playful. My husband and I just worry she might
> get sick again once the antibiotics stop. Her lymph nodes seem to stay a
> bit
> swollen, though not as much as they had been.
> ~Susan  A.
-- 
  Lance Linimon
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Books, Lists and Other Resources

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

You'd be hard pushed to find better info than that in the archives on
this list. This was a second-to-none resource, put together by the folks
who really knew what they were talking about--folks with years of solid
experience of caring for FeLV cats.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Ang
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:23 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Books, Lists and Other Resources


What are some other resources people use? I was surprised to find there
aren't any books on FeLV - at least none I could find. Are there other
places out there on the web that people frequent for info? I'm one of
those people who read and read and read on a subject that bothers me. I
am working on finding a holistic vet for Autumn. 
I just want to learn as much as I can. Any responses are appreciated:-)
Autumn is doing great - so playful. My husband and I just worry she
might get sick again once the antibiotics stop. Her lymph nodes seem to
stay a bit swollen, though not as much as they had been. 
~Susan  A.
_
Effective September 1, 2007, we have changed our name to Mayer Brown LLP.
 
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was 
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer Brown LLP to be used and 
cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that 
may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax 
advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, 
investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written 
to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer Brown LLP) 
of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based 
on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. 
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of 
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named 
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

RE: Kitten Update

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed 
approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats 
for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a foster, 
I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or another vet, but 
I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is pretty messed up- kinda 
disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I don't necessarily have a 
problem with the number of cats she has, as the situation in which they are 
kept.  I ended up with these kittens because they all had URIs that she was not 
treating them for- not even with just terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with and 
may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone first.   
-Caroline > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: Kitten Update> > On 9/27/07, Caroline 
Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > My three kittens are status-quo. I 
started them on a probiotic made by> > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've 
had a day and a half of that and> > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow 
pies (and stinky!). I don't> > know how long it takes the probiotic to work 
though? I have talked to the> > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally 
had these kittens and whom I> > needed to obtain approval from before taking in 
a stool sample. She said> > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she 
thinks it would have shown> > up earlier because she had them at her house for 
a while before I took them> > in.> > That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is 
so very common in kittens,> and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment 
(no other cats at all> - they are the only cat) and had them come down with 
coccidia after> they had been there a month.> > In fact, coccidia is so common 
that every time I have taken a kitten> in for a fecal, they have prescribed 
Albon even if the stool sample> doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).> > 
You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?> > It isn't 
uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in> their houses, by the 
way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that> come in to our local kill 
shelter.> -- > Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.> > 
http://www.rescuties.org> > Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!> > 
http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20> > Please help George!> > 
http://rescuties.chipin.com/george> > I GoodSearch for Rescuties.> > Raise 
money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the> Internet with 
GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!> 
_
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
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Re: Books, Lists and Other Resources

[MaryChristine]

i have to agree with kerry--the archives on this list are great.

i know that the winn feline foundation has put out 2006 position
papers/updates on FIV and FeLV, available on their site (i don't agree with
all their statements, but understand that until the actual research proves
something, the anecdotal information that people have can't be put out as
fact.); the aafp (amer assn of feline practitioners?) has info on
retroviral testing, the most recent version of the online merck veterinary
manual has the WONDERFUL "70% of cats exposed to FeLV" won't become
persistently viremic stat that's been around for quite awhile, but was
ignored because it came from "special interest groups"--like those folks who
DIDN'T automatically treat FeLV with euthanasia

while not all of the links are in separate threads, a lot are--you can look
for "oh, here's a new link!", or "great new resource!"---and see what's
there. i have to admit that i'm not that familiar with searching through the
archves on this list because, well, i've got all the posts saved since i
joined back in 03 or 04--just not necessarily on the same computer/hard
drive. (hey, i've got most of the stuff from my first computer back in 83,
too)

what's so frustrating, with FeLV as well as any other cat diseases, is that
if you're not subscribed to all the vet publications, you don't know about
the most up-to-date research, and it may take literally YEARS for it to
trickle down to the majority of vets.

(went to a webinar on FIP yesterday that was both wondering, and
disheartening--i'm pretty current on FIP, and while it confirmed all the
things i did know [that most vets seems NOT to realize), i found out about
findings and tests i've never seen any mention of anywhere. yeah, i've
slacked off this past 9 months with personal things, but not totally---and i
haven't seen even a hint of this info which makes me wonder if it will
EVER make it to the general public. sigh.)




On 9/27/07, MacKenzie, Kerry N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  You'd be hard pushed to find better info than that in the archives on
> this list. This was a second-to-none resource, put together by the folks who
> really knew what they were talking about--folks with years of solid
> experience of caring for FeLV cats.
>  --
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Susan Ang
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:23 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Books, Lists and Other Resources
>
> What are some other resources people use? I was surprised to find there
> aren't any books on FeLV - at least none I could find. Are there other
> places out there on the web that people frequent for info? I'm one of those
> people who read and read and read on a subject that bothers me. I am working
> on finding a holistic vet for Autumn.
> I just want to learn as much as I can. Any responses are appreciated:-)
> Autumn is doing great - so playful. My husband and I just worry she might
> get sick again once the antibiotics stop. Her lymph nodes seem to stay a bit
> swollen, though not as much as they had been.
> ~Susan  A.
>
> _
>
> Effective September 1, 2007, we have changed our name to Mayer Brown LLP.
>
>
>
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was
> neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer Brown LLP to be used and
> cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties
> that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to
> any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or
> other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the
> advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other
> than Mayer Brown LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers
> should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an
> independent tax advisor.
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the
> use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
> received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are
> not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
> e-mail.
>



-- 

Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Kitten Update

[Kelley Saveika]

Yes, that makes sense.

I have a vet that only charges $15 for a fecal, but I know other vets
charge more.

And almost all rescue groups are disorganized.   I've been told I am
one of the most organized ones, and I'm terribly disorganized - there
just are not enough hours in the day.


On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed
> approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats
> for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a
> foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
> another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
> pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
> don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
> situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
> they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
> terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
> They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
> and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
> first.
> -Caroline
>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: Kitten Update
>
> >
> > On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> shown
> > > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
> them
> > > in.
> >
> > That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
> > and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
> > - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
> > they had been there a month.
> >
> > In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
> > in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
> > doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
> >
> > You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
> >
> > It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
> > their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
> > come in to our local kill shelter.
> > --
> > Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> >
> > http://www.rescuties.org
> >
> > Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> >
> > http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> >
> > Please help George!
> >
> > http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> >
> > I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> >
> > Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
> > Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
> >
>
>
> 
> Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Re: We are not vets

[MaryChristine]

for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or,
"this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know
when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been
DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on
this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had
been handed to them on stone tablets.

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of
proclamations that have become the norm on the list.


On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
> community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
> understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
> does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
> speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
> As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
> ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
> list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
> doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
> suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
> is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
> give your advice to the contrary.
>
>
>
> This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to
> Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the
> drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group,
> we are still arguing about this! Enough already.
>
>
>
> Melissa
>  --
>
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MaryChristine
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
>
> you are prescribing medicine without a license.
>
> On 9/25/07, *Susan Dubose* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?
>
> If not, I recommend getting one performed.
>
> Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.
>
> Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even
> w/one
> of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days
> even weeks later.
>
> Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
> weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver
> problems.
> However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense.
>
> Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
> help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture
> that
> they need.
>
> You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the
>
> necessary electrolytes that they are losing.
>
> Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.
>
> Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!
>
> signed,
> Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual...
>
> :)
>
>
>
> Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> www.shadowcats.net
>   "As Cleopatra lay in state,
>Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
>Purring welcomes of soft applause,
>Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
>  Trajan Tennent
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kat" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi.  It tends to wipe out
> the good gut bacteria with the baddies.  Try adding some probiotics to
> their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help
> rebuild the good gut bacteria.
>
> Kat (Mew Jersey)
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400
> > From: Caroline Kaufmann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: OT: Kitten Question
> >
> >
> > I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the
> on-site
> > adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday.  He was bigger and
> > totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
> > instigator and a bad influence on the other ones.  He was a  B/W little
> > Kittler, so it figures!
> > Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of
> diarrhea?  And
> > I don't know what the cause is?  I'm not doing anything different with
> > them.  They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack 

Re: We are not vets

[Susan Hoffman]

I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on and 
fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are giving 
out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express disclaimer.  
Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often they are 
looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if they 
thought it might save a cat they loved.

MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  for many years, none of us had any 
problem saying, "in my opinion," or, "this is what my vet recommended, " or 
"this is what has worked for me"--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no 
vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG 
information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening 
information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented 
it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. 

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations 
that have become the norm on the list.


  On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I think we all can 
agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a 
vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not 
prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a 
suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we 
learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so 
many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a 
wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all 
of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. 
Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are 
appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with 
the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary.
   
  This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's 
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is 
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still 
arguing about this! Enough already.
   
  Melissa
  
-
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

   
  you are prescribing medicine without a license.
On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft applause, 
   Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
 Trajan Tennent




- Original Message -
From: "Kat" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM 
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question


Hi Caroline,

They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi.  It tends to wipe out
the good gut bacteria with the baddies.  Try adding some probiotics to
their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help 
rebuild the good gut bacteria.

Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:

> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400
> From: Caroline Kaufmann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Subject: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
> I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site
> adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday.  He was bigger and
> totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
> in

RE: We are not vets

[Melissa Lind]

MC,

 

I was referring to your comment that Susan is not licensed to make those
statements. All I was asking was that if you do not agree with what she
recommended, that you set us straight instead of continuing the fight. I
agree that newcomers may not know when they are getting harmful information.
That's why I asked you to give your advice if you think the info is wrong. I
believe that no matter how new a newcomer is, he/she would understand that
without seeing the cat in question, no diagnosis could be made by anyone.
Even if someone believed there were vets on this list, anyone with common
sense would know that a doctor cannot make a diagnosis sight unseen. 

I was intimidated by your comment, "you are prescribing medicine without a
license" because I often give advice on this site from my own
experiences-which are not backed up by any license. I wanted to make sure
that you didn't turn your wrath on me, yet you did anyway. I'm sorry if I've
misunderstood your tone in that post-email is difficult that way. 

Argh, why do I keep getting sucked into this bickering?! 

ML

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: We are not vets

 

for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or,
"this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know
when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been
DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on
this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had
been handed to them on stone tablets. 

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of
proclamations that have become the norm on the list.



On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
give your advice to the contrary.

 

This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are
still arguing about this! Enough already.

 

Melissa

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

 

you are prescribing medicine without a license.

On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft applause, 
   Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
 Trajan Tennent




- Original Message -
From: "Kat" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM 
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

RE: We are not vets

[Susan Hoffman]

Why don't we all just drop this and move on?

Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:v\:* 
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* 
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }MC,
   
  I was referring to your comment that Susan is not licensed to make those 
statements. All I was asking was that if you do not agree with what she 
recommended, that you set us straight instead of continuing the fight. I agree 
that newcomers may not know when they are getting harmful information. That’s 
why I asked you to give your advice if you think the info is wrong. I believe 
that no matter how new a newcomer is, he/she would understand that without 
seeing the cat in question, no diagnosis could be made by anyone. Even if 
someone believed there were vets on this list, anyone with common sense would 
know that a doctor cannot make a diagnosis sight unseen. 
  I was intimidated by your comment, “you are prescribing medicine without a 
license” because I often give advice on this site from my own experiences—which 
are not backed up by any license. I wanted to make sure that you didn’t turn 
your wrath on me, yet you did anyway. I’m sorry if I’ve misunderstood your tone 
in that post—email is difficult that way. 
  Argh, why do I keep getting sucked into this bickering?! 
  ML
   
   
  
-
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: We are not vets

   
  for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or, "this 
is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and 
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when 
they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in 
some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the 
past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on 
stone tablets. 

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations 
that have become the norm on the list.


On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this 
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is 
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person 
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak 
up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL 
know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it 
helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the 
be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with 
what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members 
are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree 
with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary.
   
  This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's 
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is 
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still 
arguing about this! Enough already.
   
  Melissa
  
-
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

   
  you are prescribing medicine without a license.
On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
  "As Cleopatra lay in

RE: We are not vets

[Melissa Lind]

Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or whoever
left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use of
Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an
AC does more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some
consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. I have no experience
with ACs, so these are not my views, but I remember people ganging up on her
several months ago when she was trying to debunk what she thought was
harmful information. 

 

I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the
comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I
apologize for any misunderstanding.

 

Melissa

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: We are not vets

 

I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on
and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are
giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express
disclaimer.  Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often
they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil
if they thought it might save a cat they loved.

MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or,
"this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know
when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been
DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on
this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had
been handed to them on stone tablets. 

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of
proclamations that have become the norm on the list.



On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
give your advice to the contrary.

 

This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are
still arguing about this! Enough already.

 

Melissa

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question

 

you are prescribing medicine without a license.

On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.

Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days 
even weeks later.

Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. 

Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.

You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the 
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.

Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.

Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!

signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... 
:)



Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com  
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org  
www.shadowcats.net  
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft applause, 
   

Re: We are not vets

[Kelley Saveika]

Phaewryn was taking a break.  She isn't good at regulating her words
so much, but she IS good at knowing when she needs to step back in
order to not become disruptive.  IMHO.

On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or whoever
> left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use of
> Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an
> AC does more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some
> consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. I have no experience
> with ACs, so these are not my views, but I remember people ganging up on her
> several months ago when she was trying to debunk what she thought was
> harmful information.
>
>
>
> I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the
> comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I
> apologize for any misunderstanding.
>
>
>
> Melissa
> 
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Susan Hoffman
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: We are not vets
>
>
>
>
> I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on
> and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are
> giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express
> disclaimer.  Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often
> they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil
> if they thought it might save a cat they loved.
>
> MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or,
> "this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and
> newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know
> when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been
> DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on
> this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had
> been handed to them on stone tablets.
>
> there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of
> proclamations that have become the norm on the list.
>
>
>
> On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
> community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
> understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
> does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
> speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
> As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
> ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
> list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
> doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
> suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
> is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
> give your advice to the contrary.
>
>
>
>
>
> This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's
> list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is
> unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are
> still arguing about this! Enough already.
>
>
>
>
>
> Melissa
> 
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> MaryChristine
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
>
>
>
> you are prescribing medicine without a license.
>
>
> On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?
>
> If not, I recommend getting one performed.
>
> Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.
>
> Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
> of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days
> even weeks later.
>
> Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
> weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
> However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense.
>
> Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
> help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
> they need.
>
> You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the
> necessary electrolytes that they are losing.
>
> Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.
>
> Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!
>
> sign

Re: Kitten Update

[MaryChristine]

another thing to look for in the archives is trichomonas--becoming much more
of a problem in cats in just the last couple of years, and producer of
really stinky poo. phaewyrn had posted all the current research awhile
back, but i'm not sure she kept updating it--there's new tests since then
(dr gookin's pouch test; you can search the web for more). h, don't see
it on her page; for those who are newer, this is a GREAT resource:

http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html

On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I
> needed approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats
> the cats for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which
> as a foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
> another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
> pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
> don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
> situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
> they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
> terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
> They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
> and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
> first.
> -Caroline
>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> >
> > On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I
> don't
> > > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She
> said
> > > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> shown
> > > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
> them
> > > in.
> >
> > That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
> > and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
> > - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
> > they had been there a month.
> >
> > In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
> > in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
> > doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
> >
> > You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
> >
> > It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
> > their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
> > come in to our local kill shelter.
> > --
> > Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> >
> > http://www.rescuties.org
> >
> > Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> >
> > http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> >
> > Please help George!
> >
> > http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> >
> > I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> >
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-- 

Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Autumn - Update

[Jane Lyons]

Hi Susan
I'm happy to hear Autumn is doing better.
Here is a link to the list for the Association of Homeopathic  
Veterinarians: http://www.holisticvetlist.com/


I use both an allopathic and homeopathic vet and with the help of  
really generous and experienced people
on this list, my once very symptomatic Felv kitten is doing well. Her  
progress has occurred over several months

and it has never been without setbacks.

Getting Autumn to eat and hopefully put some weight on is the  
important first step. If you go through the archives
of this list, there are many good suggestions for appetite  
stimulants. Giving her food that is warm is one that
helped me...also, I put warm water on wet food (really gross) and  
find that she will begin to lap up the water and

then the food. It is a soup of sorts, but she gets it down.

My homeopathic vet has come up with a remedy that is being used in  
Africa (with some success for Hiv/Aids).
It is called Thulium met, and I think it has helped my cat in several  
ways. I give her several supplements, so it
is difficult to know exactly what is doing what, but about one week  
after the first treatment we were able to

get rid of diarrhea, which had been impossible to treat.

In terms of swollen glands, hopefully as her immune system gets  
stronger, they will go down. Getting her to eat
and gain weight is the first step. The supplements and remedies that  
helped MeMe were;

Thulium met (homeopathic remedy)
liquid DMG (to boost immunity)
l-lycine ( helps fight viruses)
Forti-Flora (probotic} to increase immunity, support digestive tract  
and treat diarrhea

Just Born (with colostrum ) caloric supplement


I am sorry this list has been in such turmoil when you really need  
help. Please continue to ask questions and report

Autumn's symptoms. There are enough people here to help you.

We're rooting for you and Autumn.

Jane








On Sep 26, 2007, at 6:12 PM, Susan Ang wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She  
has really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably.  
The Pedialyte definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet,  
I started her immediately on her antibiotics, but within the hour  
she had vomiting and diarrhea. She was very weak and so I would  
smear Nutri Cal on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in her mouth.  
After every treatment she would perk up and the vomiting stopped  
that night. She still had diarrhea the next morning but I was able  
to get her to start eating the prescription food off my fingers.  
Today she is playful, but thin. We're trying to fatten her up a bit  
and get her energy levels back up. She's such a precious blessing,  
we are very grateful that she turned around.


~Susan A.

Re: Autumn - Update

[Marylyn]

Thanks for the link.  I have a holistic vet but like to be able to point 
friends in other areas of the country to a source.







If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
from the shelter of 
compassion and pity, you will have men who
will deal likewise with 
their fellow man.
 St. 
Francis
- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Autumn - Update



Hi Susan
I'm happy to hear Autumn is doing better.
Here is a link to the list for the Association of Homeopathic 
Veterinarians: http://www.holisticvetlist.com/


I use both an allopathic and homeopathic vet and with the help of  really 
generous and experienced people
on this list, my once very symptomatic Felv kitten is doing well. Her 
progress has occurred over several months

and it has never been without setbacks.

Getting Autumn to eat and hopefully put some weight on is the  important 
first step. If you go through the archives
of this list, there are many good suggestions for appetite  stimulants. 
Giving her food that is warm is one that
helped me...also, I put warm water on wet food (really gross) and  find 
that she will begin to lap up the water and

then the food. It is a soup of sorts, but she gets it down.

My homeopathic vet has come up with a remedy that is being used in  Africa 
(with some success for Hiv/Aids).
It is called Thulium met, and I think it has helped my cat in several 
ways. I give her several supplements, so it
is difficult to know exactly what is doing what, but about one week  after 
the first treatment we were able to

get rid of diarrhea, which had been impossible to treat.

In terms of swollen glands, hopefully as her immune system gets  stronger, 
they will go down. Getting her to eat
and gain weight is the first step. The supplements and remedies that 
helped MeMe were;

Thulium met (homeopathic remedy)
liquid DMG (to boost immunity)
l-lycine ( helps fight viruses)
Forti-Flora (probotic} to increase immunity, support digestive tract  and 
treat diarrhea

Just Born (with colostrum ) caloric supplement


I am sorry this list has been in such turmoil when you really need  help. 
Please continue to ask questions and report

Autumn's symptoms. There are enough people here to help you.

We're rooting for you and Autumn.

Jane








On Sep 26, 2007, at 6:12 PM, Susan Ang wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She  has 
really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably.  The 
Pedialyte definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet,  I 
started her immediately on her antibiotics, but within the hour  she had 
vomiting and diarrhea. She was very weak and so I would  smear Nutri Cal 
on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in her mouth.  After every treatment she 
would perk up and the vomiting stopped  that night. She still had 
diarrhea the next morning but I was able  to get her to start eating the 
prescription food off my fingers.  Today she is playful, but thin. We're 
trying to fatten her up a bit  and get her energy levels back up. She's 
such a precious blessing,  we are very grateful that she turned around.


~Susan A.

Re: Ember and weight loss

[Jane Lyons]

Hi Lance,
Nina suggested I try feeding dry 'kitten' food (any decent brand)
because the caloric value is much higher. I did, and MeMe has been
eating it and steadily gaining weight.

If Ember likes Sheba, I would bump it up. If she needs to gain weight
I'd offer her anything (again, decent quality) that she will eat.

I had to give up the notion of feeding a "species appropriate" diet.
I am just grateful that she is eating dry kitten and gaining weight.
I give her Sheba and a variety of 'quality' wet food that she sometimes
tolerates if it is covered with warm water and 'lapable'.

Hope she can pack some ounces back on.

Jane
On Sep 27, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Lance wrote:

Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three  
months. For the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losing  
weight. This particular problem started around last Christmas, when  
Ember developed diarrhea, and I had no idea of how to get rid of  
it. Pumpkin helped a little, but I was reluctant to try anything  
else, especially since it really didn't seem to be an infection. I  
decided to take Ember off of Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea  
almost promptly went away.


Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 1.8  
pounds since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds.  
Now, this might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the  
easiest thing to fix. I've only been giving her a can of EVO a day  
for most of the time, and that might not be enough. In the last few  
weeks, I've also given her two cans of Sheba a week as treats.


Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood  
cell count, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet  
doesn't think that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her  
run that test on Ember in a few weeks.


Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving  
as always. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what  
adding that back might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it  
be okay for me to bump up Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The  
vet wanted Ember to come back in to be weighed in a few weeks, but  
I'd rather do that at home. Is there a postal or baby scale with  
which anyone here has had good results?


Thank you,

Lance

Re: Ember and weight loss

[MaryChristine]

i think that many of us have found, no matter what WE might have thought,
that sometimes the best diet for a cat--especially one with an underlying
problem--is whatever the heck they'll eat we all know 20-year-old cats
who've never seen anything but meowmix, after all. sigh.

wondering if you did any probiotics stuff when she had the diarrhea--i know
that i've heard that sometimes the EVO can cause it, but so MANY things can
cause diarrhea that it's often hard to track down. for my kids, i do a
slurry of pumpkin and yogurt--they love it (well, jess doesn't even wait for
the yogurt to be added--or for the pumpkin to be out of the can, for that
matter), it's good for them, it adds in good gut flora (it's cheap)

if the sheba is making her happy, well, i'd go for it.

i'm also with nina on dry kitten food in terms of calories, but it's so rich
that for SOME adults, it can cause the runs as well ember's being happy
and playful is really the most important thing, tho...

unfortunately, i have no answers, but sometimes the numbers aren't the most
important things...

MC

On 9/27/07, Lance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three
> months. For the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losing
> weight. This particular problem started around last Christmas, when
> Ember developed diarrhea, and I had no idea of how to get rid of it.
> Pumpkin helped a little, but I was reluctant to try anything else,
> especially since it really didn't seem to be an infection. I decided
> to take Ember off of Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea almost promptly
> went away.
>
> Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 1.8
> pounds since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds. Now,
> this might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the easiest
> thing to fix. I've only been giving her a can of EVO a day for most
> of the time, and that might not be enough. In the last few weeks,
> I've also given her two cans of Sheba a week as treats.
>
> Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood cell
> count, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet doesn't
> think that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her run that
> test on Ember in a few weeks.
>
> Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving as
> always. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what adding
> that back might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it be okay
> for me to bump up Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The vet
> wanted Ember to come back in to be weighed in a few weeks, but I'd
> rather do that at home. Is there a postal or baby scale with which
> anyone here has had good results?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lance
>
>


-- 

Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Ember and weight loss

[Lance]

Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three  
months. For the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losing  
weight. This particular problem started around last Christmas, when  
Ember developed diarrhea, and I had no idea of how to get rid of it.  
Pumpkin helped a little, but I was reluctant to try anything else,  
especially since it really didn't seem to be an infection. I decided  
to take Ember off of Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea almost promptly  
went away.


Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 1.8  
pounds since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds. Now,  
this might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the easiest  
thing to fix. I've only been giving her a can of EVO a day for most  
of the time, and that might not be enough. In the last few weeks,  
I've also given her two cans of Sheba a week as treats.


Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood cell  
count, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet doesn't  
think that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her run that  
test on Ember in a few weeks.


Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving as  
always. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what adding  
that back might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it be okay  
for me to bump up Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The vet  
wanted Ember to come back in to be weighed in a few weeks, but I'd  
rather do that at home. Is there a postal or baby scale with which  
anyone here has had good results?


Thank you,

Lance

RE: Ember and weight loss

[Caroline Kaufmann]

We had a 19 year old cat that ate nothing but wet Whiskas (microwaved!) her 
entire life!!!  My mom and I laugh and laugh about that now that we are 
spending so much money on Wellness and supplements!  Who knows?!  I try to 
tell her that now with the proper food and supplements, maybe our "normal"- 
non-Felv cats- will live to be 30!  
-Caroline  


Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:32:59 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: Re: Ember and weight lossi think that many of us have found, no 
matter what WE might have thought, that sometimes the best diet for a 
cat--especially one with an underlying problem--is whatever the heck they'll 
eat we all know 20-year-old cats who've never seen anything but meowmix, 
after all. sigh. wondering if you did any probiotics stuff when she had the 
diarrhea--i know that i've heard that sometimes the EVO can cause it, but so 
MANY things can cause diarrhea that it's often hard to track down. for my kids, 
i do a slurry of pumpkin and yogurt--they love it (well, jess doesn't even wait 
for the yogurt to be added--or for the pumpkin to be out of the can, for that 
matter), it's good for them, it adds in good gut flora (it's cheap) if 
the sheba is making her happy, well, i'd go for it. i'm also with nina on dry 
kitten food in terms of calories, but it's so rich that for SOME adults, it can 
cause the runs as well ember's being happy and playful is really the most 
important thing, tho... unfortunately, i have no answers, but sometimes the 
numbers aren't the most important things... MC
On 9/27/07, Lance < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three months. For 
the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losingweight. This particular 
problem started around last Christmas, whenEmber developed diarrhea, and I had 
no idea of how to get rid of it.Pumpkin helped a little, but I was reluctant to 
try anything else, especially since it really didn't seem to be an infection. I 
decidedto take Ember off of Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea almost 
promptlywent away.Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 
1.8pounds since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds. Now,this 
might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the easiestthing to fix. I've 
only been giving her a can of EVO a day for most of the time, and that might 
not be enough. In the last few weeks,I've also given her two cans of Sheba a 
week as treats.Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood 
cellcount, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet doesn't think 
that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her run thattest on Ember in a 
few weeks.Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving 
asalways. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what adding that back 
might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it be okayfor me to bump up 
Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The vetwanted Ember to come back in to be 
weighed in a few weeks, but I'drather do that at home. Is there a postal or 
baby scale with which anyone here has had good results?Thank you,Lance-- Spay & 
Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristine AIM / 
YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 289856892 
_
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

Re: Vaccinations

[Jane Lyons]

Susan
I think that your vet is right. I would never consider vaccinating a  
sick kitty.


This is a link to C.A. Diodati. http://www.freeyurko.bizland.com/ 
diodaticv.html
She has researched and written exhaustively about vaccinations, and  
is considered a sane
and reasoned voice on the subject. You might read her book before you  
consider anything.


Jane

On Sep 27, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Susan Ang wrote:

Since Autumn has been sick the vet didn't want to give her her  
booster. The first time she got sick was two days after her first  
shots. She was found outside and was relatively healthy. Has anyone  
else had problems with a cat with viremia and vaccinations? Just  
curious.


~Susan A.

Vaccinations

[Susan Ang]

Since Autumn has been sick the vet didn't want to give her her booster. The
first time she got sick was two days after her first shots. She was found
outside and was relatively healthy. Has anyone else had problems with a cat
with viremia and vaccinations? Just curious.

~Susan A.

Re: Ember and weight loss

[Marylyn]

I'm a big believer in Just Born with Colostrum..high quality/high 
calorie in powder or pre- mixed.  I frequently add it to food for Dixie 
as well as for the ferals who are going into the winter and need to bulk up. 
Dixie and the Royal Princess Kitty Katt enjoy(ed) the pre-mixed for 
snacks/treats.  Dixie really enjoys full fat yogurt too.  PC (who knows his 
history) enjoys yogurt (full of probiotics) too.





If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
from the shelter of 
compassion and pity, you will have men who
will deal likewise with 
their fellow man.
 St. 
Francis
- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Ember and weight loss



Hi Lance,
Nina suggested I try feeding dry 'kitten' food (any decent brand)
because the caloric value is much higher. I did, and MeMe has been
eating it and steadily gaining weight.

If Ember likes Sheba, I would bump it up. If she needs to gain weight
I'd offer her anything (again, decent quality) that she will eat.

I had to give up the notion of feeding a "species appropriate" diet.
I am just grateful that she is eating dry kitten and gaining weight.
I give her Sheba and a variety of 'quality' wet food that she sometimes
tolerates if it is covered with warm water and 'lapable'.

Hope she can pack some ounces back on.

Jane
On Sep 27, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Lance wrote:

Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three  months. 
For the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losing  weight. This 
particular problem started around last Christmas, when  Ember developed 
diarrhea, and I had no idea of how to get rid of  it. Pumpkin helped a 
little, but I was reluctant to try anything  else, especially since it 
really didn't seem to be an infection. I  decided to take Ember off of 
Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea  almost promptly went away.


Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 1.8  pounds 
since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds.  Now, this 
might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the  easiest thing to 
fix. I've only been giving her a can of EVO a day  for most of the time, 
and that might not be enough. In the last few  weeks, I've also given her 
two cans of Sheba a week as treats.


Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood  cell 
count, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet  doesn't 
think that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her  run that test 
on Ember in a few weeks.


Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving  as 
always. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what  adding that 
back might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it  be okay for me 
to bump up Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The  vet wanted Ember to 
come back in to be weighed in a few weeks, but  I'd rather do that at 
home. Is there a postal or baby scale with  which anyone here has had 
good results?


Thank you,

Lance

Re: Vaccinations

[Marylyn]

I can't address the vaccinations that Autumn got but my holistic vets are 
recommending titers to determine what a cat needs.  Apparently a lot of animals 
are having trouble with vaccinations.  Others on the list can address this 
better than I.  Dixie tested FeLV+ and will never receive another vaccination.  
Two other little friends, one with cancer and the other with auto-immune 
hemophilic anemia, stopped receiving vaccinations when we found out their 
immune systems were compromised.Any critters coming into my life will have 
titers run before we do any vaccinations.  








 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Susan Ang 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:41 PM
  Subject: Vaccinations


  Since Autumn has been sick the vet didn't want to give her her booster. The 
first time she got sick was two days after her first shots. She was found 
outside and was relatively healthy. Has anyone else had problems with a cat 
with viremia and vaccinations? Just curious. 

  ~Susan A.