[Felvtalk] FYI: YouTube video with 11,850 hits!

[Natalie]

Here's another YouTube video, proving that sharpshooters are as bad as
bowhunters:

Rochester Hills, MI (the blood trail), and it had 11,850 hits!!!  No gore...

 

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ1wB0GdaXE

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

[Natalie]

My vet gives discounts to senior citizen, multiple pet households, and of
course, rescue groups.

 

If all of us would talk to our vets who do NOT participate in some kind of a
program, maybe we could expand the spay/neuter pool and make it more
accessible for many more pet owners.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Joslin Potter
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:09 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

 

You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV
that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
friends. I am amazed at $400 to fix an animal that is *INSANE* why would
anyone even want a pet? I wonder how many people if they contacted their
vets would they be interested, I used to go to a vet where they offered
discounts if you got more than one animal s/n at a time, this is very rare
anymore as well. 

 

From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats


And the question is WHY?  
I have a feeling a lot of it isn't JUST plain ignorance (although I hate to
admit, many are just that!), it may be the cost of spaying/neutering -
prices on the Easdt Coast can be up to $400 for a female cat!  Yes, there
are low-cost certificates available, but how many veterinarians participate?
Many are in it just for the money, and yet, they don't realize that by
performing the surgery, they could actually gain a client for life!  It's
like cutting off your nose to spite your face Some larger humane groups
also offer their own pre-paid spay/neuter at time of adoption, but the rate
of actually taking advantage of the already prepaid surgferiesare really
low, that's why many spay/neuter little kittens before they are adopted!
We work with two veterinary groups and get a nice discount, although the
larger group just informed us that the 50% is down to 30% (they could
certainly afford to keep giving us the old rate...).  
I also use FoA certificates (http://www.friendsofanimals.org/), and give
adopters
another option of SPAY/USA at 1-800-248-SPAY.
It would be great to get more veterinarians to participate in both programs.
Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:23 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

Thanks for what you do Natalie.  I've been rescuing cats for about
40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building I
bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned
cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number of
kittens being born.  People still don't N/S as they find it much
easier to dump their unwanted cats.  It is difficult not to detest
most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about their
animals.

Lorrie


On 10-03, Natalie wrote:
>Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long
>ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
>wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous
>times throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most
>wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species.
> 
>It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore.
>I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would
>be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be
>on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number
>of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and
>pounds is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I
>don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area
>doing the same thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still
>abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who
>do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for
>others' irresponsible behavior, because we care.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Natalie]

Yes, definitely some people should have been spayed/neutered!

The least requirement would be some kind of a course on child-rearing and 
responsible parenting.

I wouldn’t adopt to just anyone – therefore, why should morons have babies and 
abuse or ignore them?

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:08 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

 

That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 

From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting


I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.  I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).  This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avo

Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

[Joslin Potter]

You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed 
we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would 
be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to 
everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. I am amazed at $400 
to fix an animal that is *INSANE* why would anyone even want a pet? I wonder 
how many people if they contacted their vets would they be interested, I used 
to go to a vet where they offered discounts if you got more than one animal s/n 
at a time, this is very rare anymore as well. 

 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats
  
And the question is WHY?  
I have a feeling a lot of it isn't JUST plain ignorance (although I hate to
admit, many are just that!), it may be the cost of spaying/neutering -
prices on the Easdt Coast can be up to $400 for a female cat!  Yes, there
are low-cost certificates available, but how many veterinarians participate?
Many are in it just for the money, and yet, they don't realize that by
performing the surgery, they could actually gain a client for life!  It's
like cutting off your nose to spite your face Some larger humane groups
also offer their own pre-paid spay/neuter at time of adoption, but the rate
of actually taking advantage of the already prepaid surgferiesare really
low, that's why many spay/neuter little kittens before they are adopted!
We work with two veterinary groups and get a nice discount, although the
larger group just informed us that the 50% is down to 30% (they could
certainly afford to keep giving us the old rate...).  
I also use FoA certificates (http://www.friendsofanimals.org/), and give 
adopters
another option of SPAY/USA at 1-800-248-SPAY.
It would be great to get more veterinarians to participate in both programs.
Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:23 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

Thanks for what you do Natalie.   I've been rescuing cats for about
40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building I
bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned
cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number of
kittens being born.  People still don't N/S as they find it much
easier to dump their unwanted cats.   It is difficult not to detest
most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about their
animals.

Lorrie


On 10-03, Natalie wrote:
>    Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long
>    ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
>    wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous
>    times throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most
>    wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species.
> 
>    It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore.
>    I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would
>    be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be
>    on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number
>    of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and
>    pounds is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I
>    don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area
>    doing the same thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still
>    abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who
>    do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for
>    others' irresponsible behavior, because we care.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

WHEN YOU FIND OUT LET ME KNOW.  IF I HAD MY WAY, MOM WOULD HAVE BEEN SPAYED 
BEFORE SHE HAD 4 ILLIGETIMATE CHILDREN .  IF SHE ENJOYS GETTING PREGNANT SO 
MUCH, TAKE A PILL OR SOMETHING.  DON'T HAVE CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE TO SUFFER 
THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER ACTIONS.


 Joslin Potter  wrote: 
> That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
> too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
> supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 


 From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  
I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are 
> not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mat

Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

[Natalie]

And the question is WHY?  
I have a feeling a lot of it isn't JUST plain ignorance (although I hate to
admit, many are just that!), it may be the cost of spaying/neutering -
prices on the Easdt Coast can be up to $400 for a female cat!  Yes, there
are low-cost certificates available, but how many veterinarians participate?
Many are in it just for the money, and yet, they don't realize that by
performing the surgery, they could actually gain a client for life!  It's
like cutting off your nose to spite your face Some larger humane groups
also offer their own pre-paid spay/neuter at time of adoption, but the rate
of actually taking advantage of the already prepaid surgferiesare really
low, that's why many spay/neuter little kittens before they are adopted!
We work with two veterinary groups and get a nice discount, although the
larger group just informed us that the 50% is down to 30% (they could
certainly afford to keep giving us the old rate...).  
I also use FoA certificates (www.friendsofanimals.org), and give adopters
another option of SPAY/USA at 1-800-248-SPAY.
It would be great to get more veterinarians to participate in both programs.
Natalie

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:23 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

Thanks for what you do Natalie.   I've been rescuing cats for about
40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building I
bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned
cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number of
kittens being born.  People still don't N/S as they find it much
easier to dump their unwanted cats.   It is difficult not to detest
most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about their
animals.

Lorrie


On 10-03, Natalie wrote:
>Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long
>ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
>wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous
>times throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most
>wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species.
> 
>It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore.
>I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would
>be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be
>on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number
>of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and
>pounds is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I
>don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area
>doing the same thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still
>abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who
>do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for
>others' irresponsible behavior, because we care.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Joslin Potter]

That is horrible, those poor children. Thank God for their Grandparents, it's 
too bad however, that Grandma and Grandpa can't enjoy them like they are 
supposed too... WTH is up with people?

 


 From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  
I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are 
> not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with 
> the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.
> 
> No, I do not eat any meat.
> 


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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

Do the vets volunteer their services?  Who covers the costs of the meds, etc.  
We have a no kill shelter in our area, but they are having financial problems 
like everyone else and they have to chrge $150.00 for each adoption to cover 
their expenses.  Do vaccine companies ever donate to shelters?  I know pet food 
companies do.

 Joslin Potter  wrote: 
> I really like what our town has, they have a spay and neuter clinic express, 
> services include:
 
Pain Control injection $10.00 
Microchip $20.00 
General Dewormer $5.00 
Rabies Vaccination $10.00 
Distemper combo Vaccination $10.00 
Fecal Parasite Test $15.00 
Frontline application $15.00 
Heartworm Test $15.00 
 
Spays are under $45 for fm cats and $30 for males the only down fall is 
that they are not in one specific area for very long so you have to almost get 
an appointment months in advance which sometimes is not convenient, I wish they 
had more of these that were stationed. Perhaps more people would get their 
animals fixed. I know a friend of mine that lived in Adrian MI, he used a 
friends addess and took his kitties into Ohio where they were fixed for free do 
to income. It is too bad to see all those kittens that get dropped of at animal 
control. We recently lost our FeLV cat on September 25th. he was having 
reoccuring bladder infections and peeing blood, after countless trips, and 
watching him howel and cry up and down the stairs, no longer able to jump on 
furniture, we made the hardest decision for our fur baby. he was 5 dx for 4 yrs 
of his life. However, we did adpot a kitten from our local shelter, looking 
into all those scared and innocent eyes, we
>  might be, when we get caught up, adpot another. Kudos to you Natialie, that 
> is amazing that you can offer shelter to cats/kittens in need. 
 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species wi

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

I would like to spay/neuter a lot of the "intelligent" human population.  They 
also treat their children the same way.  i know of one who feeds her children 
cereal because they can get that by themselves.  She would prefer to do her 
heroin instead of cooking.  She is now in prison and her children stay with 
grandparents or roam the streets.


 Natalie  wrote: 
> Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, 
> they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
> probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
> year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
> differently, depending on the species.  
> 
> It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I 
> doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that 
> every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting 
> list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, 
> beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is 
> unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much 
> has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  
> People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many 
> are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, 
> physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we 
> care.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
> 
>  
> 
> Does this happen with all species?
> 
>  
> 
> I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
> bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
> better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
> wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
> hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
> exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
> 
> It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
> biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm 
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb 
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because 
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich 
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food 
> were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
> 
> The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have 
> been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them 
> out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to 
> bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be 
> (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Kathryn Hargreaves
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> 
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
> level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
> predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
> population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
> some of that capacity.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According 
> to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds 
> twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are 
> better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters 
> avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are 
> not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with 
> the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.
> 
> No, I do not eat any meat.
> 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Overpopulation of cats

[Lorrie]

Thanks for what you do Natalie.   I've been rescuing cats for about
40 years now and have 14 N/S rescued cats at home and more in a building
I bought in 2004 and made into a cageless sanctuary for abused, abandoned
cats. I also TNR, but as you said, I don't see much change in the number
of kittens being born.  People still don't N/S as they find it much
easier to dump their unwanted cats.   It is difficult not to detest
most people.. Meaning people like that who care so little about 
their animals.

Lorrie


On 10-03, Natalie wrote:
>Yes, it would make sense - if cats had not been domesticated so long
>ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
>wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous
>times throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most
>wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species.
> 
>It's too bad that this doesn't apply to domesticated animals anymore.
>I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would
>be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be
>on a waiting list - what's happening right now, is obscene - the number
>of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and
>pounds is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I
>don't think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area
>doing the same thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still
>abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who
>do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for
>others' irresponsible behavior, because we care.
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Joslin Potter]

I really like what our town has, they have a spay and neuter clinic express, 
services include:
 
Pain Control injection $10.00 
Microchip $20.00 
General Dewormer $5.00 
Rabies Vaccination $10.00 
Distemper combo Vaccination $10.00 
Fecal Parasite Test $15.00 
Frontline application $15.00 
Heartworm Test $15.00 
 
Spays are under $45 for fm cats and $30 for males the only down fall is 
that they are not in one specific area for very long so you have to almost get 
an appointment months in advance which sometimes is not convenient, I wish they 
had more of these that were stationed. Perhaps more people would get their 
animals fixed. I know a friend of mine that lived in Adrian MI, he used a 
friends addess and took his kitties into Ohio where they were fixed for free do 
to income. It is too bad to see all those kittens that get dropped of at animal 
control. We recently lost our FeLV cat on September 25th. he was having 
reoccuring bladder infections and peeing blood, after countless trips, and 
watching him howel and cry up and down the stairs, no longer able to jump on 
furniture, we made the hardest decision for our fur baby. he was 5 dx for 4 yrs 
of his life. However, we did adpot a kitten from our local shelter, looking 
into all those scared and innocent eyes, we
 might be, when we get caught up, adpot another. Kudos to you Natialie, that is 
amazing that you can offer shelter to cats/kittens in need. 
 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
  

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! Ac

Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

Never thought of that
 Marcia  wrote: 
> Yeah Natalie!!! (-:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Natalie  wrote:
> 
> > It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t 
> > really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.  
> > Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because 
> > hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and 
> > because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure 
> > that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long 
> > run.  I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer 
> > biology/reproduction.  Natalie
> >  
> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Joslin Potter
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> >  
> > I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as 
> > keeping population under control. -Joslin
> >  
> > From: Natalie 
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> > 
> > I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately,
> > innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the
> > domestic animals, even farm animals.
> > An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr
> > old kid with them, blamed it on him.  Turned out, it wasn't.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lorrie
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
> > 
> > I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a
> > hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a
> > hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake.
> > 
> > 
> > Lorrie
> > 
> > On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area
> > > and I keep my cats close to home.  Only Harley goes down the road, so 
> > > HE stays inside.  I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse.
> > > Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are 
> > > animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't they?
> > > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Felvtalk mailing list
> > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

[Natalie]

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  

It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

Does this happen with all species?

 

I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.

 

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:

It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.

The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:

No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to 
research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin 
or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are better 
hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, 
thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the result 
of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with the best 
specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.

No, I do not eat any meat.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

[dlgegg]

It might not hurt to wait a short time to be sure and most definitly I would 
alert prospective adopters what to look for.  If they find a "thinking" vet 
they should not have too much of a problem.  They just need to know euthansia 
is NOT the only answer.  My positive girls and healthy, happy and my negatives 
are also fine.  They just get the FELV vaccination each year since I mix my 
pride of 7.
 janine paton  wrote: 
> Hello,
>  
> I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin.  Trying to find 
> testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. 
> 
> I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 
> 30 
> kittens last year and none of them tested pos.  We just took 9 kittens within 
> a 
> few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered.  There were a 
> few 
> newcomers - mostly toms. 
> 
> All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out 
> to 
> lab.  Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each 
> other's kittens.  
> 
> A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I 
> understand 
> is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this!  
> 
> My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that 
> doesn't 
> mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos.  My thinking is 
> that 
> more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not 
> be 
> positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? 
> 
> Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out 
> the 
> ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. 
> 
> Looking for guidance - 
> 
> Thank you, 
> Janine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
> 
> Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome.  Only 
> Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside.  I keep hearing "they are only 
> animals" as the excuse.  Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from 
> monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals 
> arn't 
> they?
> 
> 
>  Natalie  wrote: 
> > I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this
> > is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and
> > cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a
> > cat is a deer?  Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on
> > small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter,
> > started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his
> > farm..
> > 
> > Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all!
> > 
> > I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in
> > hell ASPA!
> > 
> > Natalie
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner
> > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
> > 
> > Friends,
> > 
> > We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either
> > humans or animals.  Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to
> > end lives.  Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering
> > of a companion that is truly suffering (pet).   I am a Christian and believe
> > in heaven and hell and Karma.  So, until we all die,  that person who puts
> > their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin
> > with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to
> > life.  They will have to be judged  and only the Lord will have that talk
> > with them at the end of their  life.  I live in Florida and just heard about
> > a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back!   They
> > are trying to find the person who did it.  Trust me, I am sure if it was a
> > little child or adult,  the FBI would be involved.  But because it was a
> > cat,  "they are doing their best". At the end of every day,  everything we
> > do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends.  We can also
> > voice our opinion to the government to change laws.   God  Bless America.
> > Let's be positive here,  we are in America and have the opportunity to
> > change anything in our power as a group.  Look in the Middle East,  killing
> > everyday!   Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help
> > out where you can. however,  you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up
> > for the healthy animals that they put to sleep.  
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

[dlgegg]

Most of the hunting accidents around here are "city" people coming out with 
only the weekend to hunt and they get desperate to get a "kill".  The guys 
around (all farmers) know the drill and don't go out without their orange on 
and have been handling guns all their lives so there are not too many cattle, 
horses shot.  It is the ones who have the attitude that pets are just animals 
and do not deserve to be protected or feral animals either.  I don't hold with 
killing creatures unless they are a threat to me or mine and maybe if I was 
starving but then I probably could find enough plants and berries to eat.  
Don't think I could ever look them in the eye and pull the trigger.
Yes, you do have a point.  because of the extreme dry here (over 2 months), a 
lot of animals are dying, especially deer.  Many are getting pneumonia from 
breathing in so much dust and so many gaher at the few ponds left that 
mosquitos are spreading blue tongue like crazy.  I would rather see a deer die 
a quick death from a shot than see them linger on for days in paini.  Assumiong 
the hunter knows how to shoot and if necessary will spend the time to track the 
wounded deer down and put it out of it's misery.


 Joslin Potter  wrote: 
> I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as 
> keeping population under control. -Joslin

 


 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
  
I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately,
innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the
domestic animals, even farm animals.
An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr
old kid with them, blamed it on him.  Turned out, it wasn't.

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a
hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a
hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake.


Lorrie

On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area
> and I keep my cats close to home.  Only Harley goes down the road, so 
> HE stays inside.  I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse.
> Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are 
> animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't they?
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Does this happen with all species?

I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.


On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:

> *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
> a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
> food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.*
>
> *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
> have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
> them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
> them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
> can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
> will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
> despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
> species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
> ones take up some of that capacity.
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting
> season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To
> each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the
> people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild
> life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy
> population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the
> rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie?
>
> *It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t
> really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.
> Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because
> hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and
> because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure
> that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long
> run.  I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer
> biology/reproduction.  Natalie*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as
> keeping population under control. -Joslin
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
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>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladv