Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Gary, Yep, am on both CRF lists ... He's been getting fluids for about 3 1/2 years now, gets binders, potassium, heart meds and all kinds of other goodies. He has been doing fairly well until the last 4 or 5 months, he has lost all muscle mass in both back legs and is starting to really lose weight. He is 18 1/2 and sleeps a lot but I guess at that age he as earned it!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Sounds like you are well versed in the crf stuff. It's tough to watch these old ones start to fail, I lost a couple of my old guys earlier this year, 17 and 18, had them since they were tiny kittens. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 1:33 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Gary, Yep, am on both CRF lists ... He's been getting fluids for about 3 1/2 years now, gets binders, potassium, heart meds and all kinds of other goodies. He has been doing fairly well until the last 4 or 5 months, he has lost all muscle mass in both back legs and is starting to really lose weight. He is 18 1/2 and sleeps a lot but I guess at that age he as earned it!! -- Belinda ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
thanks very much, Gary I'll call him. Jane On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:52 PM, gary wrote: I don't believe I have seen any side effects listed anywhere and the two I have on it have just gotten their 4th shot with no noticeable side effects. One is just about 11 weeks old and pretty small, the other about 5 months and both seem to be doing fine. I don't really know if it would help with the stomatitis, but you can call the vet that is the company's technical assistance guy for Acemannan. It is made by VPL and their tech asst. page is http://www.vpl.com/techinfo.php Dr. Greg Biehle is his name and he is very good about talking to people about it. I talked to him and my vet talked to him. My vet said they were very impressed with him. Ask him about the stomatitis. I think he only works in the morning and has some days he is in surgery, but he will call you back. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jane Lyons Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:51 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary are their side effects to the Acemannan? I have never heard about it from my vets, although they always seem the last to know. My cat is Felv but stable now although she has stomatitis. Do you think it might help? Thanks Jane ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Belinda, Sorry your little kitty is so sick, an HCT of 16% is serious, but not yet critical. The critical part is how fast it is dropping, 10% and under is critical. I have had a couple that were so fast nothing could be done. Now the bad news, you missed. There wouldn't be much wetness from .15 cc and there won't be any if it goes in. The dosage is almost correct (probably close enough) but the actual correct dosage is .16 cc. If it were me, I would do it again, even if some of it got in, he needs the whole dose and a bit over won't hurt him. I have had a couple of misses myself and there is just what seems to be a tiny bit of wetness. If you want to check and see just how little fluid that really is, just use one of the old syringes and take up .15 of water and squirt it on his fur. I don't want to discourage you, but sometimes Epogen works and sometimes it doesn't. Also, it takes awhile to get the full benefit of it, sometimes as long as 2 - 3 weeks. Presently, I am trying Acemannan Immunostimulant on a couple of FeLV kittens and it seems to be working. The smaller kitten I didn't get a HCT on to start with, he had pale gums and a URI. The other had an HCT of 18%, after 3 shots of Acemannan (one a week) his HCT just before his fourth shot was 32%. Both kittens seem to be doing well now. I wish I had had some of this when I lost a couple of my adult FeLV cats that got really sick. I've spoken to the vet who did the trials and he said it brought some of the test cats back from death's door. Of course, it is not 100% effective, works for some and they lost some. He said about one third of the calls he gets about it are from vets who want to try it on their own FeLV or FIV cats. The down side of it is it is a little expensive and only a vet can buy it. My vet charges me $125 for four 10 ml vials and I think that may be his cost or close to it as I was told it was about $175. The protocol is one shot a week for 6 weeks and then one a month. It is dosed at 1 mg per kg. Fred would need 3.2 mg, the stuff is 1 mg per ml, so 10 mg per bottle or about 3 shots for Fred. The other downside is the first 6 shots are given IP (through the abdominal wall) so I have the vet do these and even he doesn't like it. The monthly shots can be given sub-q. The instructions say once it is mixed you have to use it in 4 hours, but the vet who did the trials said you can keep it in the fridge for a week or in the freezer for a month. The two kittens I have use almost a third of a bottle (it comes in two bottle pairs, one with the powder and one with saline) and you mix the saline with the powder. I have them save the saline bottle and after the first sots I have them take half of what is left and put it in the saline bottle and I freeze one and put one in the fridge. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:18 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, I got the 1ml 2000 IU and Fred weighs 7lb 2oz. I am using a insulin syringe that is 1/2 cc and was told to give Fred .15 or on the 15 line on the syringe. Does that sound right to you, his HCT was 16% on Tuesday, he got his first shot today and his fur felt wet after, not much but a bit, I hope I didn't miss and he didn't really get it. I was afraid to do more but he is so weak if I did miss I am really afraid he won't make it to Sunday when I give him the next dose. Any suggestions. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
thanks for the report on the acemannan, gary--i've heard really good things about it, not necessarily in terms of cure, but re: giving cats some additional months or years of quality time with their humans. AND there's research behind it. also thanks, as usual, for making the math of dosages clear: i know that sometimes i have trouble making sense out of it, and have learned that you're the one to run to! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
thank you Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: Dorlis, Here is the link to the yahoo anemia group. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ Sharyl --- On Fri, 10/23/09, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net wrote: From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 9:02 PM Sharyl, i missed the lik for anemia, could you send it again? asking because Lil Bit did have a kidney infection and her count dropped 1 point. we gave her fluids and anitbiotics and in 1 week, she had bounced back. so far no repeats, BUT. DORLIS Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: Amy, Epogen is very effective for treating non-regenerative anemia. Treatment is not started until the HCT or PCV is below 20 and usually in the mid-teens. The Anemia group I gave you the link for has more info on treatment protocol. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:32 AM A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
you probably did, just that i am playing late night catch up on e-mails and most likely missed it. dorlis double thank you gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I thought I had answered this when the subject first came up, but with my memory, you never know. They don't have much of a website, it most has a few links to download forms. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=538876 It is faster to just call them if you want to find out if they have what you are looking for and how much that will be. You can also have your vet or doctor call in the script. Phone number is 1-877-453-4566. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:55 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: MaryChristine Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update I NEVER HEARDOF WALMART SPECIALITY PHARMACY BEFORE. DORLIS MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: well, actually i very vaguely think that i might have been mentioned years ago in terms of getting fluids, but since i'm not sure, i wouldn't know where to find where i might have filed it! MC On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, MaryChristinetwelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Gary, Fred's anemia is not FeLV related, he is negative, would the acemannan still be something to consider if the anemia is from insufficient renal function vs FeLV+ status? He is non regenerative anemia because of the renal insufficiency. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
belinda, i can't remember if the archives from a couple of years ago survived the server issues, but there was a LOT of discussion on the list just over two years ago, i think, when hideyo was trying to obtain some--during the period it wasn't available for some administrative problem. i think that a lot of the research involving it was cited back then. i know folks have used it for lymphomas from injection-site sarcomas, tho i DON'T think it was the, immunostimulant formulation: not sure that one existed then. if i recall tho, both hideyo and paolo? from south america had good experiences with talking with the company. (i may be fantasizing all of this, but i'm pretty sure i'm not.) -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Thanks MC, I wrote to Hideyo and I think she wrote back will have to double check, I ended up getting the epogen because I needed to get Fred started on something right away and they could get that in 1 day. He gets his second shot tomorrow. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Gary, I tried the test with a used syringe and Fred's fur wasn't anywhere near that wet yesterday so I think I figured out what happened. When I tented and started giving him the shot, when he felt the epo going in he started to move and I pushed against him harder to keep him from pulling the syringe out so I think at that point the syringe may have gone in farther and out the other side ... but I think it was towards the end of the shot so didn't lose too much. I am going to give him a little extra tomorrow though, his HCT has been slowly dropping over 4 or 5 years, he was at 28% when we first diagnosed him hyper-t CRF 4 years ago and I know he was CRF a good year before that, someone had been peeing a lot for a while but I couldn't pin point who. over the last year his HCT was between 24% and 20% but since a month ago it went to 16%. My vet checked for bleeding there isn't any so it is because of his CRF. We will check him again in 2 weeks after starting the epo. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
keeping all paws crossed. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
MC, Belinda and all, Yes, the archives are intact. They are on a separate server, so they weren't affected by the issues we had back in July of '08. Belinda, I typed in Acemannan just to be sure. Here's the url: http://www.mail- archive.com/search?q=acemannanl=felvt...@felineleuk emia.org I hope that helps. We too are keeping fingers and paws crossed for Fred. Best wishes to all. James G. Wilson - phaed...@charter.net http://www.felineleukemia.org (FeLV Research Support) http://www.facebook.com/crambone http://weather62025.com (Weather for Edwardsville, IL) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Gary are their side effects to the Acemannan? I have never heard about it from my vets, although they always seem the last to know. My cat is Felv but stable now although she has stomatitis. Do you think it might help? Thanks Jane On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:54 PM, gary wrote: Hi Belinda, Sorry your little kitty is so sick, an HCT of 16% is serious, but not yet critical. The critical part is how fast it is dropping, 10% and under is critical. I have had a couple that were so fast nothing could be done. Now the bad news, you missed. There wouldn't be much wetness from . 15 cc and there won't be any if it goes in. The dosage is almost correct (probably close enough) but the actual correct dosage is .16 cc. If it were me, I would do it again, even if some of it got in, he needs the whole dose and a bit over won't hurt him. I have had a couple of misses myself and there is just what seems to be a tiny bit of wetness. If you want to check and see just how little fluid that really is, just use one of the old syringes and take up .15 of water and squirt it on his fur. I don't want to discourage you, but sometimes Epogen works and sometimes it doesn't. Also, it takes awhile to get the full benefit of it, sometimes as long as 2 - 3 weeks. Presently, I am trying Acemannan Immunostimulant on a couple of FeLV kittens and it seems to be working. The smaller kitten I didn't get a HCT on to start with, he had pale gums and a URI. The other had an HCT of 18%, after 3 shots of Acemannan (one a week) his HCT just before his fourth shot was 32%. Both kittens seem to be doing well now. I wish I had had some of this when I lost a couple of my adult FeLV cats that got really sick. I've spoken to the vet who did the trials and he said it brought some of the test cats back from death's door. Of course, it is not 100% effective, works for some and they lost some. He said about one third of the calls he gets about it are from vets who want to try it on their own FeLV or FIV cats. The down side of it is it is a little expensive and only a vet can buy it. My vet charges me $125 for four 10 ml vials and I think that may be his cost or close to it as I was told it was about $175. The protocol is one shot a week for 6 weeks and then one a month. It is dosed at 1 mg per kg. Fred would need 3.2 mg, the stuff is 1 mg per ml, so 10 mg per bottle or about 3 shots for Fred. The other downside is the first 6 shots are given IP (through the abdominal wall) so I have the vet do these and even he doesn't like it. The monthly shots can be given sub-q. The instructions say once it is mixed you have to use it in 4 hours, but the vet who did the trials said you can keep it in the fridge for a week or in the freezer for a month. The two kittens I have use almost a third of a bottle (it comes in two bottle pairs, one with the powder and one with saline) and you mix the saline with the powder. I have them save the saline bottle and after the first sots I have them take half of what is left and put it in the saline bottle and I freeze one and put one in the fridge. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:18 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, I got the 1ml 2000 IU and Fred weighs 7lb 2oz. I am using a insulin syringe that is 1/2 cc and was told to give Fred .15 or on the 15 line on the syringe. Does that sound right to you, his HCT was 16% on Tuesday, he got his first shot today and his fur felt wet after, not much but a bit, I hope I didn't miss and he didn't really get it. I was afraid to do more but he is so weak if I did miss I am really afraid he won't make it to Sunday when I give him the next dose. Any suggestions. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Belinda, OK, just didn't want him to miss out. I didn't realize he wasn't FeLV positive. I don't think the Acemannan would be of help with his CRF, Epogen is the way to go for that. Are you on the FCRF yahoo list? Lots of good info on just about every therapy and support for crf kitties there. They usually suggest you start Epogen at 20%, but 16% isn't bad. You may have mentioned this before, but do you have to give him fluids regularly? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 3:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, I tried the test with a used syringe and Fred's fur wasn't anywhere near that wet yesterday so I think I figured out what happened. When I tented and started giving him the shot, when he felt the epo going in he started to move and I pushed against him harder to keep him from pulling the syringe out so I think at that point the syringe may have gone in farther and out the other side ... but I think it was towards the end of the shot so didn't lose too much. I am going to give him a little extra tomorrow though, his HCT has been slowly dropping over 4 or 5 years, he was at 28% when we first diagnosed him hyper-t CRF 4 years ago and I know he was CRF a good year before that, someone had been peeing a lot for a while but I couldn't pin point who. over the last year his HCT was between 24% and 20% but since a month ago it went to 16%. My vet checked for bleeding there isn't any so it is because of his CRF. We will check him again in 2 weeks after starting the epo. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I don't believe I have seen any side effects listed anywhere and the two I have on it have just gotten their 4th shot with no noticeable side effects. One is just about 11 weeks old and pretty small, the other about 5 months and both seem to be doing fine. I don't really know if it would help with the stomatitis, but you can call the vet that is the company's technical assistance guy for Acemannan. It is made by VPL and their tech asst. page is http://www.vpl.com/techinfo.php Dr. Greg Biehle is his name and he is very good about talking to people about it. I talked to him and my vet talked to him. My vet said they were very impressed with him. Ask him about the stomatitis. I think he only works in the morning and has some days he is in surgery, but he will call you back. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jane Lyons Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:51 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary are their side effects to the Acemannan? I have never heard about it from my vets, although they always seem the last to know. My cat is Felv but stable now although she has stomatitis. Do you think it might help? Thanks Jane ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Belinda, i have only given fluids to my Lil Bit, but i learned fast to put the bag in water same temperature as my body. first time i gave her fluids, she nearly jumped out of my lap. it was room temperature (70) and cold to her. next day i put the bag in the sink with warm water until it was comfortable to me. at least it was closer to her body temperature and she didn't mind it very much. at least she didn't try to get away from me. GARY need to weigh in on this as i am not sure you should warm up the Epogen. dorlis gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: Hi Belinda, OK, just didn't want him to miss out. I didn't realize he wasn't FeLV positive. I don't think the Acemannan would be of help with his CRF, Epogen is the way to go for that. Are you on the FCRF yahoo list? Lots of good info on just about every therapy and support for crf kitties there. They usually suggest you start Epogen at 20%, but 16% isn't bad. You may have mentioned this before, but do you have to give him fluids regularly? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 3:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, I tried the test with a used syringe and Fred's fur wasn't anywhere near that wet yesterday so I think I figured out what happened. When I tented and started giving him the shot, when he felt the epo going in he started to move and I pushed against him harder to keep him from pulling the syringe out so I think at that point the syringe may have gone in farther and out the other side ... but I think it was towards the end of the shot so didn't lose too much. I am going to give him a little extra tomorrow though, his HCT has been slowly dropping over 4 or 5 years, he was at 28% when we first diagnosed him hyper-t CRF 4 years ago and I know he was CRF a good year before that, someone had been peeing a lot for a while but I couldn't pin point who. over the last year his HCT was between 24% and 20% but since a month ago it went to 16%. My vet checked for bleeding there isn't any so it is because of his CRF. We will check him again in 2 weeks after starting the epo. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
prayres for Fred dorlis Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Thanks MC, I wrote to Hideyo and I think she wrote back will have to double check, I ended up getting the epogen because I needed to get Fred started on something right away and they could get that in 1 day. He gets his second shot tomorrow. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Sharyl, i missed the lik for anemia, could you send it again? asking because Lil Bit did have a kidney infection and her count dropped 1 point. we gave her fluids and anitbiotics and in 1 week, she had bounced back. so far no repeats, BUT. DORLIS Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: Amy, Epogen is very effective for treating non-regenerative anemia. Treatment is not started until the HCT or PCV is below 20 and usually in the mid-teens. The Anemia group I gave you the link for has more info on treatment protocol. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:32 AM A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
YOU GOT PROCRIT FOR $300.00. WHERE DO YOU LIVE? I AM IN EASTERN MISSOURI AND WHEN I HAD TO TAKE IT I PAID $1645.00 FOR 4 - 1MIL VIALS WHICH LASTED ME 4 WEEKS. AND THAT STILL WAS CHEAP THAN GOING TO THE CANCER CLINIC AND PAYING FOR A DRS. VISIT AND A NURSE TO GIVE IT. THAT CAMETO $500.00 MORE FOR EACH INJECTION. DORLIS Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Procrit and Epogen are the same thing, one is basically the generic of the other, where I live the Procrit was $20.00 cheaper, I paid $300.00 for a 6 month supply of Epogen. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
COURSE, I WAS PAYING HUMAN PRICES FOR PROCRIT, BUT WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE IN PRICING! DORLIS gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I made a slight error when typing below, it should say a dose is 100 units PER KG, not just 100 units. How many doses one vial gives you depends on the size of your cat. For mine it is 5 doses, just about enough to see if it is working. You start with 3 times a week and as you approach your target level of hemocrit, you start cutting back to twice a week and monitor results and then to once a week and if you get lucky, maybe to once every 10 - 14 days. It just depends on how the hemocrit level responds. Here is a link to an article you may find helpful. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#epogen_eprex_procrit Your vet is over the edge on prices, just have him call it in to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy at 1-877-453-4566. You will also need U100 insulin syringes, they are .5ml maximum and are marked for .01ml minimum so it is pretty easy to draw up the units you need. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Gary, How many shots does that vial give you? I'm trying to figure out the expense of Epogen. My vet quoted me $277 for Procrit and she said it was almost double that at the other pharmacy she uses. I need to do the math to figure out how many doses that $277 is for but it sounds like your deal is way better. Amy I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I NEVER HEARDOF WALMART SPECIALITY PHARMACY BEFORE. DORLIS MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: well, actually i very vaguely think that i might have been mentioned years ago in terms of getting fluids, but since i'm not sure, i wouldn't know where to find where i might have filed it! MC On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, MaryChristinetwelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I thought I had answered this when the subject first came up, but with my memory, you never know. They don't have much of a website, it most has a few links to download forms. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=538876 It is faster to just call them if you want to find out if they have what you are looking for and how much that will be. You can also have your vet or doctor call in the script. Phone number is 1-877-453-4566. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:55 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: MaryChristine Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update I NEVER HEARDOF WALMART SPECIALITY PHARMACY BEFORE. DORLIS MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: well, actually i very vaguely think that i might have been mentioned years ago in terms of getting fluids, but since i'm not sure, i wouldn't know where to find where i might have filed it! MC On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, MaryChristinetwelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Gary, I got the 1ml 2000 IU and Fred weighs 7lb 2oz. I am using a insulin syringe that is 1/2 cc and was told to give Fred .15 or on the 15 line on the syringe. Does that sound right to you, his HCT was 16% on Tuesday, he got his first shot today and his fur felt wet after, not much but a bit, I hope I didn't miss and he didn't really get it. I was afraid to do more but he is so weak if I did miss I am really afraid he won't make it to Sunday when I give him the next dose. Any suggestions. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Dorlis, Here is the link to the yahoo anemia group. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ Sharyl --- On Fri, 10/23/09, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net wrote: From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 9:02 PM Sharyl, i missed the lik for anemia, could you send it again? asking because Lil Bit did have a kidney infection and her count dropped 1 point. we gave her fluids and anitbiotics and in 1 week, she had bounced back. so far no repeats, BUT. DORLIS Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: Amy, Epogen is very effective for treating non-regenerative anemia. Treatment is not started until the HCT or PCV is below 20 and usually in the mid-teens. The Anemia group I gave you the link for has more info on treatment protocol. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:32 AM A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I made a slight error when typing below, it should say a dose is 100 units PER KG, not just 100 units. How many doses one vial gives you depends on the size of your cat. For mine it is 5 doses, just about enough to see if it is working. You start with 3 times a week and as you approach your target level of hemocrit, you start cutting back to twice a week and monitor results and then to once a week and if you get lucky, maybe to once every 10 - 14 days. It just depends on how the hemocrit level responds. Here is a link to an article you may find helpful. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#epogen_eprex_procrit Your vet is over the edge on prices, just have him call it in to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy at 1-877-453-4566. You will also need U100 insulin syringes, they are .5ml maximum and are marked for .01ml minimum so it is pretty easy to draw up the units you need. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Gary, How many shots does that vial give you? I'm trying to figure out the expense of Epogen. My vet quoted me $277 for Procrit and she said it was almost double that at the other pharmacy she uses. I need to do the math to figure out how many doses that $277 is for but it sounds like your deal is way better. Amy I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Procrit and Epogen are exactly the same product. It is made by the same company, but labeled as Procrit for another company that sells it. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Amy, check on the Anemia board. I believe that fewer shots/wk are required with the Procrit than the Epogen. In the end I think the cost is pretty much a wash. Sharyl ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
It came FedEx overnight in a little styrofoam cooler with two ice packs that were still mostly frozen. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:04 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, Make sure it has been kept cold or it is worthless. It should be kept in the fridge and not shaken. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Gary, This makes more sense. I saw you said you gave a dose of 100 units and I was thrown since my vet told me to dose at 100 units per KG. The price is actually pretty similar that way because you have 4 doses at $30 or 24 doses at $240. My vet's quote was for Procrit, 24 doses (500U/dose, dosed at 100U/kg). I will definitely let her know about the Walmart specialty pharmacy, though, since it's still about $40 less. Thanks for that info. It will be nice to not have to start with buying 24 doses right from the start since this will be our first time trying it. Amy I made a slight error when typing below, it should say a dose is 100 units PER KG, not just 100 units. How many doses one vial gives you depends on the size of your cat. For mine it is 5 doses, just about enough to see if it is working. You start with 3 times a week and as you approach your target level of hemocrit, you start cutting back to twice a week and monitor results and then to once a week and if you get lucky, maybe to once every 10 - 14 days. It just depends on how the hemocrit level responds. Here is a link to an article you may find helpful. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#epogen_eprex_procrit Your vet is over the edge on prices, just have him call it in to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy at 1-877-453-4566. You will also need U100 insulin syringes, they are .5ml maximum and are marked for .01ml minimum so it is pretty easy to draw up the units you need. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Gary, How many shots does that vial give you? I'm trying to figure out the expense of Epogen. My vet quoted me $277 for Procrit and she said it was almost double that at the other pharmacy she uses. I need to do the math to figure out how many doses that $277 is for but it sounds like your deal is way better. Amy I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I didn't price what Walmart charges for multiple vials, might even be cheaper. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Gary, This makes more sense. I saw you said you gave a dose of 100 units and I was thrown since my vet told me to dose at 100 units per KG. The price is actually pretty similar that way because you have 4 doses at $30 or 24 doses at $240. My vet's quote was for Procrit, 24 doses (500U/dose, dosed at 100U/kg). I will definitely let her know about the Walmart specialty pharmacy, though, since it's still about $40 less. Thanks for that info. It will be nice to not have to start with buying 24 doses right from the start since this will be our first time trying it. Amy I made a slight error when typing below, it should say a dose is 100 units PER KG, not just 100 units. How many doses one vial gives you depends on the size of your cat. For mine it is 5 doses, just about enough to see if it is working. You start with 3 times a week and as you approach your target level of hemocrit, you start cutting back to twice a week and monitor results and then to once a week and if you get lucky, maybe to once every 10 - 14 days. It just depends on how the hemocrit level responds. Here is a link to an article you may find helpful. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#epogen_eprex_procrit Your vet is over the edge on prices, just have him call it in to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy at 1-877-453-4566. You will also need U100 insulin syringes, they are .5ml maximum and are marked for .01ml minimum so it is pretty easy to draw up the units you need. Gary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
well, actually i very vaguely think that i might have been mentioned years ago in terms of getting fluids, but since i'm not sure, i wouldn't know where to find where i might have filed it! MC On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, MaryChristinetwelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
You probably have to live in the boonies of Arkansas to know about stuff like that, cause you can't get it anywhere else ho ho Gary - Gloria On Aug 8, 2009, at 4:26 PM, MaryChristine wrote: gary, is there a link to walmart's specialty pharmacy? i've never heard of it as an entity before thanks! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
So here's my dilemma. I'm struggling with a lot of decisions right now but I'll try to summarize. His hematocrit was 29 a month ago, now it's 27. Over the past 5 years, it's never been below high 30's. So something is going on that it's going down. My vet wants me to bring him back Wednesday and do an ear prick, check his HCT, and if it's ok, do a digestive panel to check for malabsorption, pancreatitis and other stuff (this is a test I've been asking about for some time, not something she is pushing). It takes 4 mls of blood. I definitely want to rule this stuff out but am hesitant to draw more blood. Part of me feels I'm so terrified of this decreasing HCT that I've sort of given up. That same part of me definitely doesn't want to accelerate that decline by drawing blood if he's really going down the path of the virus in the bone marrow, not making red blood cells, HCT steadily decreasing til he fails. On the other hand what if the anemia is mild because it's due to something like the digestive stuff and I could save him and don't try? I'm so torn. I'll hate myself if I do this bloodwork and my happy, relatively stable cat starts to crash. Thoughts? I'm going to post his whole history on the anemia group and get some opinions too and I'm trying to research the likelihood of the anemia coming from digestive issues. Amy --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 10:31 PM PS. His anemia was related to his positive status. My vet thinks the virus activated in his bone marrow and that is what brought on the anemia, he developed pancreatic cancer in the 6 months we were trying to figure out what was going on. It was obvious something was still wrong because even after we got his HCT normalized he was very lethargic and wouldn't eat. My gut feeling was pancreatitis but my vet didn't think so because his blood work was normal, I wish I had followed my instincts and had the test for pancreatitis done, he may not have developed cancer if we had treated him for that. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Belinda, Can I just clarify? Bailey was leuk positive and had no other issues other than the anemia? While you were trying to figure that out, he developed pancreatitis? No CRF or anything else, you were using the Epogen solely for the leukemia related anemia? The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of whether to start Epogen when Wolfie's HCT gets low. My vet and I are trying to understand how it could hypothetically work for anemia related to bone marrow issues as opposed to CRF and she says it doesn't make sense that it would help. Again she's not saying it doesn't help or that we shouldn't try it (she's totally up for it if I am), we are just trying to figure out how it could help by looking at the causes of the anemia. You are the only person I've heard say they used it for a leuk pos cat with anemia rather than CRF so we are very interested in your story. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like Bailey was a very lucky cat to have you. Amy --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 10:27 PM Bailey was on epogen for almost 6 months when he became anemic, it brought his HCT from a low of 15% back up to 40% within 6 weeks or so. When he passed he was still on a maintanence dose of epogen once a week and his HCT was holding at 33%. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Amy, CRF is not the only cause for non-regenerative anemia. You will read a lot about CRF and anemia on the Internet because of all the CRF groups. The info you are looking for is epogen helps non-regenerative anemia no matter what caused the anemia. Again, a HCT of less than 20 is needed for a accurate test result. In the mean time you can give Super B Complex, B12 and folic acid supplements to help him. Sharyl --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:21 AM Hi Belinda, Can I just clarify? Bailey was leuk positive and had no other issues other than the anemia? While you were trying to figure that out, he developed pancreatitis? No CRF or anything else, you were using the Epogen solely for the leukemia related anemia? The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of whether to start Epogen when Wolfie's HCT gets low. My vet and I are trying to understand how it could hypothetically work for anemia related to bone marrow issues as opposed to CRF and she says it doesn't make sense that it would help. Again she's not saying it doesn't help or that we shouldn't try it (she's totally up for it if I am), we are just trying to figure out how it could help by looking at the causes of the anemia. You are the only person I've heard say they used it for a leuk pos cat with anemia rather than CRF so we are very interested in your story. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like Bailey was a very lucky cat to have you. Amy --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 10:27 PM Bailey was on epogen for almost 6 months when he became anemic, it brought his HCT from a low of 15% back up to 40% within 6 weeks or so. When he passed he was still on a maintanence dose of epogen once a week and his HCT was holding at 33%. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Amy, we often have to do tests to understand the problem. You always have the option of a transfusion if needed. My sweet Albert, CRF, anemia, CHF, HCM, had an HCT in the low 20's for 1 1/2 yrs. He did just fine until his little heart gave out. If Wolfie was my kitty I'd give him the supplements to help the anemia. Then I'd discuss with the vet the most informative tests and do the blood work. There is a new IDEXX Spec fPL test for pancreatitis. We do what we can to help our beloved companions. It really doesn't help them to obsess about a no. Yes Wolfie is anemic but it is not at a critical stage by any means. Good Luck whatever you decide to do. Sharyl --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:15 AM So here's my dilemma. I'm struggling with a lot of decisions right now but I'll try to summarize. His hematocrit was 29 a month ago, now it's 27. Over the past 5 years, it's never been below high 30's. So something is going on that it's going down. My vet wants me to bring him back Wednesday and do an ear prick, check his HCT, and if it's ok, do a digestive panel to check for malabsorption, pancreatitis and other stuff (this is a test I've been asking about for some time, not something she is pushing). It takes 4 mls of blood. I definitely want to rule this stuff out but am hesitant to draw more blood. Part of me feels I'm so terrified of this decreasing HCT that I've sort of given up. That same part of me definitely doesn't want to accelerate that decline by drawing blood if he's really going down the path of the virus in the bone marrow, not making red blood cells, HCT steadily decreasing til he fails. On the other hand what if the anemia is mild because it's due to something like the digestive stuff and I could save him and don't try? I'm so torn. I'll hate myself if I do this bloodwork and my happy, relatively stable cat starts to crash. Thoughts? I'm going to post his whole history on the anemia group and get some opinions too and I'm trying to research the likelihood of the anemia coming from digestive issues. Amy --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 10:31 PM PS. His anemia was related to his positive status. My vet thinks the virus activated in his bone marrow and that is what brought on the anemia, he developed pancreatic cancer in the 6 months we were trying to figure out what was going on. It was obvious something was still wrong because even after we got his HCT normalized he was very lethargic and wouldn't eat. My gut feeling was pancreatitis but my vet didn't think so because his blood work was normal, I wish I had followed my instincts and had the test for pancreatitis done, he may not have developed cancer if we had treated him for that. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Amy, Yes Bailey was getting the epogen ONLY for his anemia that was related to his FeLV+ status, he did not have CRF. He was not the only cat my vet used epogen for that was positive, she had been treating another positive cat for a year that was positive and anemic. I don't know the outcome of that kitty. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Amy, I am expecting to delivery of the Epogen for one of my FeLV positives today. I will let everyone know how it works out. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:00 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Thanks for the info. I've joined the anemia group and am reading up on it. Has anybody on this list tried the Epogen for a leuk pos cat that is anemic? I read a lot about Epogen being very effective for anemia and I read about people using it for CRF. Just wondering what sort of experiences people have had using it for non-regenerative anemia not due to CRF. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Gary, What do you mean you are expecting a delivery of Epogen. Don't you need to get this from your vet? I'm new to all of this. Susan -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Hi Amy, I am expecting to delivery of the Epogen for one of my FeLV positives today. I will let everyone know how it works out. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:00 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Thanks for the info. I've joined the anemia group and am reading up on it. Has anybody on this list tried the Epogen for a leuk pos cat that is anemic? I read a lot about Epogen being very effective for anemia and I read about people using it for CRF. Just wondering what sort of experiences people have had using it for non-regenerative anemia not due to CRF. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sander, Sue Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, What do you mean you are expecting a delivery of Epogen. Don't you need to get this from your vet? I'm new to all of this. Susan ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Thank you very much. This group sure knows a lot. Susan -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:48 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sander, Sue Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, What do you mean you are expecting a delivery of Epogen. Don't you need to get this from your vet? I'm new to all of this. Susan ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hi Gary, How many shots does that vial give you? I'm trying to figure out the expense of Epogen. My vet quoted me $277 for Procrit and she said it was almost double that at the other pharmacy she uses. I need to do the math to figure out how many doses that $277 is for but it sounds like your deal is way better. Amy I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sander, Sue Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, What do you mean you are expecting a delivery of Epogen. Don't you need to get this from your vet? I'm new to all of this. Susan ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Amy, check on the Anemia board. I believe that fewer shots/wk are required with the Procrit than the Epogen. In the end I think the cost is pretty much a wash. Sharyl --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:30 PM Hi Gary, How many shots does that vial give you? I'm trying to figure out the expense of Epogen. My vet quoted me $277 for Procrit and she said it was almost double that at the other pharmacy she uses. I need to do the math to figure out how many doses that $277 is for but it sounds like your deal is way better. Amy I had the vet call in a prescription to the Walmart Specialty Pharmacy. It was $30.68 for a 1ml 2000 unit vial and they shipped it FedEx overnight for free. Got it about an hour ago and have already given the first shot (100 units). As long as it is given Sub-q, I do it myself (shots, fluids, etc.). I am looking into Staph Protein A which showed a lot of promise in treating FeLV back in the mid 80s. This is given with a shot into the abdominal cavity - I think I will be letting the vet do that. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sander, Sue Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update Gary, What do you mean you are expecting a delivery of Epogen. Don't you need to get this from your vet? I'm new to all of this. Susan ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Gary, Make sure it has been kept cold or it is worthless. It should be kept in the fridge and not shaken. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Procrit and Epogen are the same thing, one is basically the generic of the other, where I live the Procrit was $20.00 cheaper, I paid $300.00 for a 6 month supply of Epogen. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
***Sorry about my lengthy email*** Hello MaryChristine sorry about my late response :-) I don't know how to read the blood test results, but here is what I have... What's on the left of arrow is the results of first blood test taken on 1/9/2009, and what's on the right of arrow is the resulst of second test taken on 3/28/2009. I didn't know which values indicate what, so I wrote down the items indicating abnormal values (High Low) from the first blood test results... AST (SGOT) 121 (H) - 32 ALT (SGPT) 145 (H) - 52 Cholesterol Total 235 (H) - 304 (still High) Phosphorous 3.0 (L) - 4.1 (still Low) CA/PHOS Ratio 2.7 (H) - 2.2 Total Protein 15.8 (H) - 7.6 Albumin 5.2 (H) - 3.2 Globulin 10.6 (H) - 4.4 LDH 1141 (H) - 434 RBC 3.2 (L) - 7.4 HGB 5.2 (L) - 11.1 HCT 18 (L) - 39 MCV 58 (H) - 53 MCHC 28.2 (L) - 29.1 Lymphs 17 (L) - 62 (H) Lymph/Absolute 935 (L) - 2728 Platelet Count 58 (L) - 253 FELV (ELISA) Positive - Negative 1/9/2009 - I took my cat, Puma to the vet for bladder infection (I thought that was the only problem then). Since it was the first time, the vet did the blood test. Looking at the test results, he told me that Puma was FeLV+ and had severe anemia. (I don't know what kind...) The vet gave Puma LCTI on 1/31, 2/7, 2/14 (once a week for 3 weeks) 2/28, 3/14 (every other week). On 3/28 which is two weeks after his 5th shots, the vet did the 2nd blood test which you can see the results above. Looking at the 2nd test results, the vet told me that Puma no longer has anemia; however, I asked the vet to continue the LCTI treatment. The vet gave Puma LCTI on 4/11, 5/9, 6/6, and 7/4 (Once a month). I'm planning to ask the vet to do another blood test on 9/5 which will be two month from the last treatment. Only other thing that I did was to make sure that Puma gets nutritious food. When the treatment started, I switched from dry food (Nutro Natural Choice Complete Care) to can food (Natural Balance Ultra Formula) (I'm back to dry food (Wellness) now though) I also gave him Hi-Vite drop daily (and I still do...) Let me know if I missed anything that you asked. Hiromi :-) From: twelvehousec...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:08:36 -0400 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update hiromi, i'd be very interested in learning about the blood values your cat showed, what kind of anemia it had, what other things you tried, how long it was on the lcti, etc. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Amy, Epogen is very effective for treating non-regenerative anemia. Treatment is not started until the HCT or PCV is below 20 and usually in the mid-teens. The Anemia group I gave you the link for has more info on treatment protocol. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:32 AM A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
If nothing else is working, by the way I have heard doxy can take as long as 6 weeks to show results, but if his HCT is still going down don't know that I would be thinking that. But as I was saying if nothing else is working and you are faced with death, my personally I would try the epogen, if the alternative is death you have nothing to lose. Sending lots of prayers for Wolfie and you. What is his HCT now?? It was 27 when we went this week and he's still acting fine. He's nowhere near where I'd start it yet. Just wanted to know if there's anything I can do before he gets to the low 20's/teens or if I just wait. Thanks Amy -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
I would keep doing what you're doing, 27% isn't horrible. Be sure and keep up the pet tinic, is he getting folic acid too it isn't in pet tinic and is needed for building new blood. I wouldn't panic yet, just keep a close eye on him and think positive. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Thanks, joined both of these. Amy --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:21 AM Amy. I haven't had any success once they start to fail. Maybe others can help. There are two yahoo groups that may help with the symptoms. There is a assist feeding group that can offer support regarding the wt. loss. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/ There is an anemia group that has info in their files on Epogen for non-regenerative anemia http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ Hugs to Wolfie Sharyl --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
He isn't getting a folic acid supplement but he does get some in his EVO cat food. I'm almost done with the bottle of Pet-Tinic and then I'm going to try Nutrived. Amy I would keep doing what you're doing, 27% isn't horrible. Be sure and keep up the pet tinic, is he getting folic acid too it isn't in pet tinic and is needed for building new blood. I wouldn't panic yet, just keep a close eye on him and think positive. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Thanks for the info. I've joined the anemia group and am reading up on it. Has anybody on this list tried the Epogen for a leuk pos cat that is anemic? I read a lot about Epogen being very effective for anemia and I read about people using it for CRF. Just wondering what sort of experiences people have had using it for non-regenerative anemia not due to CRF. Thanks Amy --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 6:48 AM Amy, Epogen is very effective for treating non-regenerative anemia. Treatment is not started until the HCT or PCV is below 20 and usually in the mid-teens. The Anemia group I gave you the link for has more info on treatment protocol. Sharyl --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Iva Lark Emily Seaberg melleph...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:32 AM A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Great, I think as long as he seems to feel fine and his HCT doesn't start dropping I would be too concerned yet. All kitties are individuals and maybe that is a decent HCT for him, wouldn't want it to get much lower though. Fred's (CRF) HCT has been between 24% and 29% for the last 3 years or more. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Bailey was on epogen for almost 6 months when he became anemic, it brought his HCT from a low of 15% back up to 40% within 6 weeks or so. When he passed he was still on a maintanence dose of epogen once a week and his HCT was holding at 33%. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
PS. His anemia was related to his positive status. My vet thinks the virus activated in his bone marrow and that is what brought on the anemia, he developed pancreatic cancer in the 6 months we were trying to figure out what was going on. It was obvious something was still wrong because even after we got his HCT normalized he was very lethargic and wouldn't eat. My gut feeling was pancreatitis but my vet didn't think so because his blood work was normal, I wish I had followed my instincts and had the test for pancreatitis done, he may not have developed cancer if we had treated him for that. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Amy. I haven't had any success once they start to fail. Maybe others can help. There are two yahoo groups that may help with the symptoms. There is a assist feeding group that can offer support regarding the wt. loss. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/ There is an anemia group that has info in their files on Epogen for non-regenerative anemia http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ Hugs to Wolfie Sharyl --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 7:38 PM So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
Hello Amy :-) All I know is that Lymphocyte T-Cell Immunomodulator by Imulan worked very well for my FeLV+ cat w/ severe anemia... http://www.imulan.com/ Hiromi :-D Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 From: awilkin...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?OCID=0809TL-HM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
hiromi, i'd be very interested in learning about the blood values your cat showed, what kind of anemia it had, what other things you tried, how long it was on the lcti, etc. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
If nothing else is working, by the way I have heard doxy can take as long as 6 weeks to show results, but if his HCT is still going down don't know that I would be thinking that. But as I was saying if nothing else is working and you are faced with death, my personally I would try the epogen, if the alternative is death you have nothing to lose. Sending lots of prayers for Wolfie and you. What is his HCT now?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
A few years ago I had a kitty with Chronic Renal Failure. Towards the end he was extremely anemic and we did the Epogen. I'm so glad we did it because it did buy us some time. I decided to try the Epogen when it became clear he was not making new blood cells, his anemia became extreme and we knew that without help he would die from it, a slow, lethargic and very sad death. I wanted to give him a chance and the Epogen did. My vet talked to UC Davis about his unique situation (he also had high blood pressure and a heart problem) and we gave him a really really low dose. I believe typically they give it 3-4 times a week and we gave it once a week. It was such a low dose the vet thought it might not work, but it did and actually better than we anticipated. So, I can't speak for the FeLV stuff, but I can say the Epogen wasn't as evil as I was expecting to be from what I had heard word of mouth. We used it very cautiously, and it seemed to make a big difference. You just really have to watch it, start off slow. It is easier to add treatments then try and slow it down and you don't want their values increasing too fast. Good luck, Iva - Original Message - Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Wolfie Update So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Wolfie Update
So I've been posting about my cat Wolfie who has been losing weight since about mid 2006, from 15.4 lbs down to 10.8 lbs today. His last visit was on July 2nd and he had a HCT of 29. He also tested positive for Mycoplasma haemominutum previously called Haemobartonella felis small form. He's been on doxy, pred, and Pet-Tinic twice daily for almost a month. My vet thought he looked great today and he hasn't lost any weight since his last visit but he's not gaining and his HCT is still going down. We took a tiny amount of blood and sent it out for a reticulocyte count. I've lost almost all my leuk positives to anemia in the end (except for one to lymphoma and one to neurological issues) and I'm really bummed out by the news. I was hoping treating the Hemobart would help the HCT even though my vet wasn't as optimistic. I'm just wondering how most people here lose their leuk positives. It seems all of mine do so well, are completely asymptomatic and then out of nowhere they stop making red blood cells, the HCT starts to drop, and it is downhill from there. My vet wrote me a 10 page letter on everything that could cause weight loss and anemia and we have eliminated almost all the possibilities I think. We haven't done a digestive panel yet because it takes 4 mls of blood and I don't want to do that with his HCT dropping. If the reticulocyte test comes back and shows he is making red blood cells, we will start investigating digestive issues or anything else that could be causing his lower HCT. If it comes back as nonregenerative anemia, is there anything I can do? I know there is the option of Epogen and I'm looking into that. Anything else or do I just spend time with him and wait? I hate this point where they are feeling fine, looking fine, and I know it's only a matter of time :( This guy has been with me longer than any of my other positives and I'd do anything to help him but I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do. Thoughts? Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
