Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Jen~ My thoughts and prayers are with you and Ewok. I was so saddened to hear the news regarding the tumor. I pray little Ewok will get some relief with new treatments pursued... Big hugs to both of you! Love, Patti
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Jen, I would ask the vet to teach you how to do subcutaneous fluids at home, if you don't already know how to do it, so you don't need to keep taking him in. If he is in really bad shape it is true that IV fluids get into his system faster, but longer-term it seems like sub-q fluids should be enough, to me (though I am no doctor)... Michelle In a message dated 12/16/2005 6:25:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ...I'm going to be taking Ewok into his regular vettomorrow morning for fluids and to pull the catheter that's been in hisarm since Monday
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
You can do it either way. I would do it in one shot just to stick him less, but other than that i do not think it matters. Michelle In a message dated 12/16/2005 6:25:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are the twoadministered separately (separate injections)? Or are they combined andthen injected in one shot?
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Hi Michelle! Thanks so much...I'm going to be taking Ewok into his regular vet tomorrow morning for fluids and to pull the catheter that's been in his arm since Monday...I spoke with our vet just a few minutes ago and mentioned the combo shot...she hadn't heard of the two being used in combo, but she's willing to try anything for Ewok, so if the chemo doesn't do any good, we'll give the steroids a shot. Are the two administered separately (separate injections)? Or are they combined and then injected in one shot? "But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan George - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:22 pm Subject: Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor > oh, and they can be administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly. > The > oncologist gave them to Simon intramuscularly, and I gave the > follow-up dex > shots subcutaneously. IM is faster than sub-q in terms of > absorbtion rate. > Michelle >
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Aw Jen, I just caught up on the posts between you and Michelle about Ewok. I feel like there's a tumor in my belly :( . I'm so sorry. My thoughts, concerns and prayers are with you guys. I wish there were something else I could say or do. I hate this damn disease. I'm sending you all my love to comfort you. My arms are wrapped around you both, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn! I should have checked my email before I left...thanks for that, Michelle...I'm going to keep that one in mind! Ewok and I just got back from the oncologist's and it's as we all pretty much expected: a mass in his intestines (a lymph node I believe, but I'm so tired I can't think straight right now...). So he was actually given a round of elspar to see if the tumor responds...I guess we'll know in the next 24-48 hours. Please continue to send out those healing vibes!
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
oh, and they can be administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly. The oncologist gave them to Simon intramuscularly, and I gave the follow-up dex shots subcutaneously. IM is faster than sub-q in terms of absorbtion rate. Michelle
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
1/2 cc Dexamethasone and 1/2 cc depomedrol. Though the norm, when giving Depomedrol, is to give a whole cc at one time, and I have done that as well because some vets insist that is the right amount if you give depo at all. But the vet who taught me about doing the combo shots uses 1/2 cc of each. If it works, you wait to give the next one until the symptoms come back. It can be anywhere from weeks to days to somewhere in between. If the shot does nothing for him, he probably is in bad shape. When Simon was really bad, the oncologist gave him a dex shot and a depo shot. I do not remember if he did 1/2 cc of each or 1 cc of each. Simon did not get better that day, and I had 2 dex shots at home (from the vet who had taught me about them with my other two), and with the oncologist's knowledge I gave him a dex shot (1 cc, think, but it might have been 1/2 cc) the following day and, I think, the day after. When he did not respond, I thought it was all over. But two days later he sat up and asked for food and water and by the next day was running around. What I think happened was that, for Simon, the cancer was in his liver and bone marrow and so he was sick due to very high liver bilirubin levels and very low hematocrit. What I think happened is that the dex and depo shots did work right away in terms of shrinking the lymphoma in the liver and bone marrow, but it took him a few days to process the high bilirubin levels out of his system and make enough red blood cells to bring his hematocrit back up. So I think he may have had less cancer right after the shots, but I did not know that because it took him a few days to actually feel better, if that makes sense. With Josephine and Buddy, who had cancer in different places, the dex and depo shots always worked within 3 or 4 hours until their last days when the shots did not work at all. So I guess I would ask for a combined dex/depo shot of either 1/2 cc of each or 1 cc of each. If it works, I would expect to see a difference within 24 hours for sure. Since he does not have high liver or kidney values or as far as we know lymphoma in his bone marrow, I would assume that if the steroids are going to work they would make him feel better pretty quickly-- that the shrinking of the tumors itself would make him feel better. The one possible side effect of strong steroids, short-term, is diabetes. But it is very rare for that to happen in the short-term and usually is a long-term effect. Given Ewok's situation, I do not think there is a down-side to trying the steroids. Or to trying CCNU. If your oncologist has reservations about using dex/depo combination shots on him, you can tell him to call the oncologist who treated Simon. I have not been in touch with him for months, but he is a really nice guy and I am sure he will remember what happened and be willing to talk about it. His name is Jeff Philibert and he is at NEVOG in MA (New England Veterinary Oncology Group). He did research on heavy steroid use in cats before agreeing to do the shots. The other thing is that your oncologist would probably agree there is not much of a down-side to trying at this point, if the Elspar does not help (which hopefully it will). Lots of hopeful wishes, Michelle In a message dated 12/16/2005 3:53:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle!Thanks, again, for all of your sage advice and encouragment! My regularvet is going to call me back, I will ask her about the strongersteroids...what are their full names and how were they administered andhow often?
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Hi Michelle! Thanks, again, for all of your sage advice and encouragment! My regular vet is going to call me back, I will ask her about the stronger steroids...what are their full names and how were they administered and how often? "But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan George - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 16, 2005 2:36 pm Subject: Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor > > I'm sorry, Jen! That's horrible. Josephine did get tumors in her > intestines > secondary to tumors on her kidneys, and she lived a couple months > with them > just getting those shots, without even any chemo. The dex would > visibly > shrink the tumor within just a few hours. The day that the shot > did not do that > or make her start eating, I knew it was the end, and she went into > respiratory distress a few hours later. > > You can also ask the oncologist about CCNU. It is a chemo drug > that they > use when cats come out of remission from the other chemo agents. > It is > synthetic, so cats get resistant to it more slowly. When the > dex/depo shot got > Simon to the point he could get more chemo, he got CCNU. That and > the shots are > what made him feel so great for the month. A few weeks after > getting the > CCNU, when his blood work showed him near remission again, he got > Adriamycin for > the first time, and a week later had a sudden auto-immune reaction > and > killed all his red blood cells and died. I do not know if it was > a reaction to > the cancer or to the Adriamycin. But I do know that the dex/depo > shots and the > CCNU worked wonders on the cancer together, and I wished > afterwards that the > oncologist had given him CCNU again rather than Adriamycin (though > he > insisted the auto-immune response was to the cancer and would have > happened > anyway). I read that about 50% of cats who have come out of > remission go back into > remission from CCNU, I think. I also do not think it is as harsh > on the > system as Adriamycin. > > I think that Belinda's Buddie, who had intestinal lymphoma I think > (not > sure), did well on CCNU also. But I think she had the small cell > slow-growing > kind of lymphoma, which is different than what Ewok has. > > Jen, I think there is little hope that Ewok is going to be cured of > this. > But I do think there is hope that might be able to feel well for > another few > weeks or months, and that there is some chance that with stronger > steroids and > something like CCNU he could go into remission, and a smaller > chance that > the remission could last a year or more as has happened in some > cases. I would > not expect this to happen, because I do not think it is the norm > with > positive cats, but I do not think you are expecting it. But I would > certainly hope > and pray for it at this point (and I am hoping and praying for > it), because > it could and has happened. > > Michelle > > In a message dated 12/16/2005 3:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Damn! I should have checked my email before I left...thanks for > that,Michelle...I'm going to keep that one in mind! Ewok and I > just got back > from the oncologist's and it's as we all pretty much expected: a > mass in > his intestines (a lymph node I believe, but I'm so tired I can't > thinkstraight right now...). So he was actually given a round of > elspar to > see if the tumor responds...I guess we'll know in the next 24-48 > hours.Please continue to send out those healing vibes! > > Jen > > > >
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
I'm sorry, Jen! That's horrible. Josephine did get tumors in her intestines secondary to tumors on her kidneys, and she lived a couple months with them just getting those shots, without even any chemo. The dex would visibly shrink the tumor within just a few hours. The day that the shot did not do that or make her start eating, I knew it was the end, and she went into respiratory distress a few hours later. You can also ask the oncologist about CCNU. It is a chemo drug that they use when cats come out of remission from the other chemo agents. It is synthetic, so cats get resistant to it more slowly. When the dex/depo shot got Simon to the point he could get more chemo, he got CCNU. That and the shots are what made him feel so great for the month. A few weeks after getting the CCNU, when his blood work showed him near remission again, he got Adriamycin for the first time, and a week later had a sudden auto-immune reaction and killed all his red blood cells and died. I do not know if it was a reaction to the cancer or to the Adriamycin. But I do know that the dex/depo shots and the CCNU worked wonders on the cancer together, and I wished afterwards that the oncologist had given him CCNU again rather than Adriamycin (though he insisted the auto-immune response was to the cancer and would have happened anyway). I read that about 50% of cats who have come out of remission go back into remission from CCNU, I think. I also do not think it is as harsh on the system as Adriamycin. I think that Belinda's Buddie, who had intestinal lymphoma I think (not sure), did well on CCNU also. But I think she had the small cell slow-growing kind of lymphoma, which is different than what Ewok has. Jen, I think there is little hope that Ewok is going to be cured of this. But I do think there is hope that might be able to feel well for another few weeks or months, and that there is some chance that with stronger steroids and something like CCNU he could go into remission, and a smaller chance that the remission could last a year or more as has happened in some cases. I would not expect this to happen, because I do not think it is the norm with positive cats, but I do not think you are expecting it. But I would certainly hope and pray for it at this point (and I am hoping and praying for it), because it could and has happened. Michelle In a message dated 12/16/2005 3:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Damn! I should have checked my email before I left...thanks for that,Michelle...I'm going to keep that one in mind! Ewok and I just got backfrom the oncologist's and it's as we all pretty much expected: a mass inhis intestines (a lymph node I believe, but I'm so tired I can't thinkstraight right now...). So he was actually given a round of elspar tosee if the tumor responds...I guess we'll know in the next 24-48 hours.Please continue to send out those healing vibes!Jen
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?--Another tumor
Damn! I should have checked my email before I left...thanks for that, Michelle...I'm going to keep that one in mind! Ewok and I just got back from the oncologist's and it's as we all pretty much expected: a mass in his intestines (a lymph node I believe, but I'm so tired I can't think straight right now...). So he was actually given a round of elspar to see if the tumor responds...I guess we'll know in the next 24-48 hours. Please continue to send out those healing vibes! Jen "But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan George - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:15 pm Subject: Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing? > > Jen, > >If it is another tumor, ask for the combo dex/depo shot to see > if it > will help. Combined with chemo, it helped Simon for an extra > month and made him > feel really good. It also suppresses nausea and increases > appetite, besides > shrinking the tumor temporarily. > > Michelle > > In a message dated 12/16/2005 12:39:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > You're right...I guess I think of non-regenetive anemia when I think > about activating the virus! > > Anyhoo, Ewok is still at the oncologist's (I'm at home)...the > oncologistthinks it could be one of two things: either a reaction > to the chemo > (in which case, we keep supporting him), or, at worst, a tumor has > formed in his belly. Ewok is getting an ultra-sound right now, so we > should know soon what we're dealing with. Personally, I'm fearing > thelatter...I guess it would make the most sense given what he's > been going > through this past week. I'm still hoping that there is, well, > hope...but I'm trying to prepare myself at the same time. > > Please keep Ewok in your thoughts! > > Jen > > > > >
