Re: Beth's family update and shelter idea (and questions aboutinterferon etc)
Hi Nina, Thank you for your advice. Yup, my MIL is absolutely maddening! I've just spent the last week doing work for them, gritting my teeth the entire time. She's 76, never learned to drive, can't bear any change, hoards junk, and thinks my husband has nothing better to do than maintain her property for her for the rest of her life while our own place falls apart. But I guess that's a whole 'nother can of worms... They are in an odd spot, they live on a street of older homes with large lots, and they have a double lot at the end of the street. I think it is 300 feet deep by I don't know how wide. Property values have risen in the area and their street is surrounded by tightly packed Mcmansion subdivisions. They dislike not only animals, but most plant life as well, when brushy areas spring up along the fence or behind the garage they have my hubby or nephew hack it all down. It is pretty much a wasteland of mowed scrub grass on severely compacted soil. Neighbors next door have more hiding spots, but are just as old and crotchety. I live about 40 minutes away in an tightly-packed older working class suburb. My back yard is teensy-tiny and visited too often by the free-roaming, aggressive toms of my idiot neighbors. I think the brush pile is my best bet, will try it there at least until I'm discovered. Ideally, I would leave food out during the day and take it up each night, but I don't live there and can't go everyday. I do what I can... I will google long-term abx use for more information. Possible resistance does worry me, I want it to still be effective when he really needs it, but he is doing so well right now, and I really feel that I failed Ally when I took her off it. We are lucky to have a very good veterinary referal specialist group in our area, that is where we found the orthopedic surgeon to do Moxy's surgery. They have a cardiologist that we plan on bringing Moxy to eventually, you're right, I should bring Will to their internest as well. Hate to offend my regular vet, but she really has dropped the ball badly at least once and doesn't seem very motivated beyond the basics. It's about what's best for them I guess, not about protecting her feelings... Now I just have to make enough to pay for all this, dear parrot Max is also due for her yearly checkup... Thank you so much for your help, Beth Hi Beth,Pardon me for saying so, but I'd like to shake your MIL. It sounds like she lives someplace fairly rural, does she have immediate neighbors? Have you tried talking to some of them about the possibility of setting up feeding/shelters in their yards? It seems ridiculous that you'd have to do that with your own family members right there, but maybe there's someone else near by that would be willing, if not to caretake themselves, at least not be hostile to your efforts to help the cats. How many cats are there? Could you relocate them to your back yard? If that's possible, they'd have to be contained in your back yard until they recognize it as their new territory. As far as the skunks and raccoons... I don't have much of a problem with wildlife in my area, but I've seen it suggested that if you spot an unwelcome guest, you should feed only once a day and pick up the food when the cats are done eating. It is also recommended to block the shelters until the wild critters find another place to nest. I have been meaning to write for advice on Will's med protocol and neutering tips, but got sidelined by Moxy. I think the initial reason she recommended Will be on continuous antibiotics is because she and I both got so frightened by how quickly things turned bad for his little sister Ally when she went off of them. Her URI returned, she developed a bright red "swimmer's ear" infection, and she spiked a recurring high fever. None of this responded as well to the antibiotics as her initial URI and eye infection did. It just kind of felt like we'd left the door open a crack and couldn't shut it again. She was eventually pts with suspected wet FIP, (although this wasn't confirmed by necropsy and I have my doubts on the diagnosis). Maybe it was just the FCov mutating into FIP that made her so susceptible to the other infections and it had nothing to do with stopping the antibiotic, but it all came on so quickly after the first round of meds ended...I can understand you concern after what you've been through. I don't know if prolonged use of antibiotics is the answer for preventative care though. There's the immunity factor and I'm sure you know that even with broad spectrum abx, there's no one abx that will battle all illnesses. They are specific to different maladies, and it just doesn't sit right with me to have their systems weakened with abx use "just in case". This is just my personal opinion, but would rather boost their immune systems, keep a very close eye on them to watch for symptoms and then hit them with the appropriate abx if necessary.
Re: Beth's family update and shelter idea (and questions about interferon etc)
Gary Murphy wrote: Hi Nina, Thank you for the link to the indyferal group, what a great site! I have some of the supplies to make a shelter already, would only have to buy the insulation, I'll try to get something together this weekend. The real trick is going to be sneaking it into their yard and hiding it somewhere, brush pile would be good, but they're talking of paying someone to come out and chip it. MIL thinks that anything I do for the cats is attracting skunks and racoons instead. I'll work it out somehow... Hi Beth, Pardon me for saying so, but I'd like to shake your MIL. It sounds like she lives someplace fairly rural, does she have immediate neighbors? Have you tried talking to some of them about the possibility of setting up feeding/shelters in their yards? It seems ridiculous that you'd have to do that with your own family members right there, but maybe there's someone else near by that would be willing, if not to caretake themselves, at least not be hostile to your efforts to help the cats. How many cats are there? Could you relocate them to your back yard? If that's possible, they'd have to be contained in your back yard until they recognize it as their new territory. As far as the skunks and raccoons... I don't have much of a problem with wildlife in my area, but I've seen it suggested that if you spot an unwelcome guest, you should feed only once a day and pick up the food when the cats are done eating. It is also recommended to block the shelters until the wild critters find another place to nest. I have been meaning to write for advice on Will's med protocol and neutering tips, but got sidelined by Moxy. I think the initial reason she recommended Will be on continuous antibiotics is because she and I both got so frightened by how quickly things turned bad for his little sister Ally when she went off of them. Her URI returned, she developed a bright red "swimmer's ear" infection, and she spiked a recurring high fever. None of this responded as well to the antibiotics as her initial URI and eye infection did. It just kind of felt like we'd left the door open a crack and couldn't shut it again. She was eventually pts with suspected wet FIP, (although this wasn't confirmed by necropsy and I have my doubts on the diagnosis). Maybe it was just the FCov mutating into FIP that made her so susceptible to the other infections and it had nothing to do with stopping the antibiotic, but it all came on so quickly after the first round of meds ended... I can understand you concern after what you've been through. I don't know if prolonged use of antibiotics is the answer for preventative care though. There's the immunity factor and I'm sure you know that even with broad spectrum abx, there's no one abx that will battle all illnesses. They are specific to different maladies, and it just doesn't sit right with me to have their systems weakened with abx use "just in case". This is just my personal opinion, but would rather boost their immune systems, keep a very close eye on them to watch for symptoms and then hit them with the appropriate abx if necessary. Now, I think that part of the reason he is still on it is maybe because of the interferon alpha. I know that a side effect for humans receiving it as an injectable is a temporary reduction in circulating WBC's. Also, viral infections in general suppress WBC's. This would lead to an increased risk for bacterial infections. What I don't know is if the low oral dose he receives has the same effect? I've got a list of questions for my vet, but have more confidence that this list can give me answers than her. She has never recommended a probiotic, but that was something I've been meaning to ask about. I think he's lasted longer than she expected and we need to sit down and come up with a long-term plan for him. The staff at this clinic are wonderful, the techs race each other to be the one who gets to check in my babies, I can feel them rooting for the whole bunch. And I like the idea of one clinic knowing them from beginning to end. I just wish the vet was a little more knowledgeable and proactive. I would ask your vet for a referral to a specialty vet, a board certified internist. Someone that would have more experience with the sort of illnesses our guys are prone to. I'd take Will in to see them and then you'd have someone to bring him to if he ever gets sick and needs more specialized care. Anyway, here are my questions: 1. What are the risks/side effects of long-term antibiotics? (I'll see if I can find some Pet Dophillus to try) I started to Google this for you. I think you should do the same. The little I read, (I was looking for long term use of Clav specifically), doesn't seem to be too negative. I just don't know if it's necessary and/or beneficial. 2. How often should he be having a blood panel run? Do we do this on an interferon on week, or an off week, or on
RE: Beth's family update and shelter idea
Hi Nina, Thank you for the link to the indyferal group, what a great site! I have some of the supplies to make a shelter already, would only have to buy the insulation, I'll try to get something together this weekend. The real trick is going to be sneaking it into their yard and hiding it somewhere, brush pile would be good, but they're talking of paying someone to come out and chip it. MIL thinks that anything I do for the cats is attracting skunks and racoons instead. I'll work it out somehow... I have been meaning to write for advice on Will's med protocol and neutering tips, but got sidelined by Moxy. I think the initial reason she recommended Will be on continuous antibiotics is because she and I both got so frightened by how quickly things turned bad for his little sister Ally when she went off of them. Her URI returned, she developed a bright red "swimmer's ear" infection, and she spiked a recurring high fever. None of this responded as well to the antibiotics as her initial URI and eye infection did. It just kind of felt like we'd left the door open a crack and couldn't shut it again. She was eventually pts with suspected wet FIP, (although this wasn't confirmed by necropsy and I have my doubts on the diagnosis). Maybe it was just the FCov mutating into FIP that made her so susceptible to the other infections and it had nothing to do with stopping the antibiotic, but it all came on so quickly after the first round of meds ended... Now, I think that part of the reason he is still on it is maybe because of the interferon alpha. I know that a side effect for humans receiving it as an injectable is a temporary reduction in circulating WBC's. Also, viral infections in general suppress WBC's. This would lead to an increased risk for bacterial infections. What I don't know is if the low oral dose he receives has the same effect? I've got a list of questions for my vet, but have more confidence that this list can give me answers than her. She has never recommended a probiotic, but that was something I've been meaning to ask about. I think he's lasted longer than she expected and we need to sit down and come up with a long-term plan for him. The staff at this clinic are wonderful, the techs race each other to be the one who gets to check in my babies, I can feel them rooting for the whole bunch. And I like the idea of one clinic knowing them from beginning to end. I just wish the vet was a little more knowledgeable and proactive. Anyway, here are my questions: 1. What are the risks/side effects of long-term antibiotics? (I'll see if I can find some Pet Dophillus to try) 2. How often should he be having a blood panel run? Do we do this on an interferon on week, or an off week, or on a longer interferon break? Does it have to be run immediately before the surgery, or wait a few days? a week? to see how the poke heals before slicing into his privates? 3. Do we discontinue the interferon before his neuter surgery? 4. Don't they build up a resistance/antibodies to the human interferon eventually? Is it still helping him at this point? Would feline interferon be affected by these antibodies, or would it still work after he has received several months of the human stuff? I know this is another long book, you don't have to answer all that, it helps me to clarify what I need to ask the vet if I write it out first. Are there any other questions I should be asking? Thank you so much, Beth Hey Beth,Thanks so much for the update about your furry gang. I'm glad everyone, (including little Moxy who doesn't know how to land like a cat), is doing so well. Why do you have Will on continuous Clavamox? I was advised to do the same for Hemobart and Doxy, but that was because of the nature of how Dox works against the parasite. I would be absolutely sure that you understand the reasoning behind this decision and agree with it. Do you have him on some sort of probiotic to replenish the good bacteria that is wiped out with the "bad" with continual use of abx? I use something called Pet Dophilus, (I buy it at the health food store). That's so funny about him eating the lovebird's lettuce. What a character! His slow healing process is troubling, but it's not going to get any better as he gets older and being a grown intact Tom is stressful too. Be sure to look through the archives about surgery and anesthesia to discuss with your vet before his surgery.It's a good thing your heart is big enough to help compensate for your MILs! I just ordered a couple of feral outdoor shelters from Indycat: http://www.indyferal.org/index.php?page=shelters& You might want to check out their site for ideas on creating something for the poor babies still outside.Nina
