Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
I'm with Nina. Plus it just doesn't happen. I have brought in new negatives and new positives. NO ONE has ever 'caught' felv from my positives. One was a feral that had only had her 1st vaccine and I just brought her on in without waiting for the 2nd. She's negative.Unless you're dealing with unvaccinated cats/kittens. it's just not going to happen. If I had the choice to live all alone or be killed or live in a 'sanctuary' I'd choose to risk the thunderstorm too. I truly think the odds of a positive transferring the virus to a vaccinated cat would be about the same as being struck by lightening.NOT vaccinating would be more like holding the metal pole. If they're vaccinated there is simply just not a risk. I've been on this list over 10 years. It doesn't happen. Even positive cats have only a third of a chance of getting sick. About a third of cats are naturally immune. About a third might carry the virus and never get sick. And the last third gets sick. Add the vaccine to help that last third and even if it's not 100% effective you are looking at excellent odds.What does happen is that people test their cats one time and get false negatives. Then they don't find out they have a positive cat until it gets sick or they bring in a cat that tests positive and then retest everyone and find out they had a false negative to begin with but think the disease was transmitted. I don't believe it was. Thevirus can be in the bone marrow for years and then show up. Unless a cat came from an older truly negative mother, and was never exposed to ANY other cats there's a chance it might turn up positive at some point.Any cat you already havecould be harboring the virus if it was a stray, if it came from a shelter or rescue, from a breeder, etceven if it tested negative at one time. I truly believe you are 99.9% safe if the cats are vaccinated.And yes, I think vets need to get their acts together and quit passing out information that is flat out wrong. They know there's next to no chance of a vaccinated cat getting felv, BUT they have to cover their asses.It's just like what's going on now with vaccinations. They KNOW those vaccinations are not necessary every year, but they are fighting it every step of the way to scare people into getting them every year. Why? Money.My internal specialist told me he had his household mixed at least 10 years ago. He said the 'right thing to do' would be to tell me to find a new place for my positive but that he had a positive himself. felv and fiv. And he said no one had transferred either to his negative cats.tonyaNina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
I do believe the vaccines are worth it. And as far as rabiesI've worked at shelters, with ferals, etc and even though there's a small chance I might get rabies I do it anyway and I have not gone and got the rabies shots like lots of animal workers do. (That's for my own happiness I hate shots!)I think most of the people on this list who have a cat have very lucky cats.tTad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or is the real question...What if the risk from the vaccine is greater than the disease it self..Like small pox...Tad[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the spirit of acceptance and being able to share ideas -I, myself,mix FeVL+ and FeVL- cats. Are there risks? Yes. Knowledge is power, however, and that is why I vaccinate the ones who are negative and take additional precautions in keeping litterboxes extra clean - keeping food and water dishes extra clean - and pay more attention to frequently washing bedding and keeping shared areas disinfected. There is scientific evidence that the virus is contained in the saliva. Scientific evidence as recent as March 2006.Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include thisancedotal information.Is ancedotal evidence important? Yes - it is...and it is extremely valuable. But there has to be a balance between scientific evidence and practical application. Both are valuable. It is also extremely important to recovery that the cats feel loved, safe, and unstressed. Diet is also very important. All of these things go toward making life better for all of us...not just the cats.I respect your opinion. I also respect your right to disagree and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the discussion.Elizabeth*Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:46:57 -0700Subject: Safety first? - On my soapbox again If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the studies that might back up what we've learned here. There are still many vets that don't think shutting the pos away in it's own room is enough of a precaution. These are the vets that take it a step further and advocate eu
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
When my vet and I discussed shots this last time, in March I believe, she told me may cats have had shots for long enough that they didn't need anymore, they were protected for life. I did get them all the FeLV shot but that's all they got. They won't even need that now, so no more shots period for them, with my vet;s blessing. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Safety first? - On my soapbox again
If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the studies that might back up what we've learned here. There are still many vets that don't think shutting the pos away in it's own room is enough of a precaution. These are the vets that take it a step further and advocate euthanasia of asymptomatic cats, not only for the protection of the negs in the household, but for the pos as well! The owners unfortunate enough to put their faith in that kind of expert advice never get the chance to prove them wrong. I know that this list and the history of it's members was a breath of fresh air to me when I was confused, distraught and at the end of my rope. I know that the advice I've received here has proven to be as reliable as any I could receive about this unpredictable and insidious disease. Would I take the advice of some of our members over that of a trained, licensed veterinarian? You bet I would, and I have. Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my take on it. The experts tell me that it is possible to be struck by lightening in a thunderstorm. Me - I've been outside countless times when itstartedstorming -and I've never been struck and neither has anyone in my family or anyone I know. Do the weather experts need to update their websites and literature?I'm thinking it might be a good idea to think long and hard before standing out in the rain with a metal pole. Now - I don't know if it's easierto be struck by lightening than for casual contact FeVLcontamination to occur- I simply do not know the odds...but if it's possible - I surely do want to know and take some precautions where appropriate. elizabeth In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:15:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This only tells me it's not nearly as hard to catch as they try and make people believe. And I still don't think it would be very easy to catch by grooming, I would watch Bailey and joey groom each other and they actually would groom and touch tongues and Joey still never got it!!
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
In the spirit of acceptance and being able to share ideas -I, myself,mix FeVL+ and FeVL- cats. Are there risks? Yes. Knowledge is power, however, and that is why I vaccinate the ones who are negative and take additional precautions in keeping litterboxes extra clean - keeping food and water dishes extra clean - and pay more attention to frequently washing bedding and keeping shared areas disinfected. There is scientific evidence that the virus is contained in the saliva. Scientific evidence as recent as March 2006. Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include thisancedotal information. Is ancedotal evidence important? Yes - it is...and it is extremely valuable. But there has to be a balance between scientific evidence and practical application. Both are valuable. It is also extremely important to recovery that the cats feel loved, safe, and unstressed. Diet is also very important. All of these things go toward making life better for all of us...not just the cats. I respect your opinion. I also respect your right to disagree and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:46:57 -0700Subject: Safety first? - On my soapbox again If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the studies that might back up what we've learned here. There are still many vets that don't think shutting the pos away in it's own room is enough of a precaution. These are the vets that take it a step further and advocate euthanasia of asymptomatic cats, not only for the protection of the negs in the household, but for the pos as well! The owners unfortunate enough to put their faith in that kind of expert advice never get the chance to prove them wrong. I know that this list and the history of it's members was a breath of fresh air to me when I was confused, distraught and at the end of my rope. I know that the advice I've received here has proven to be as reliable as any I could receive about this unpredictable and insidious disease. Would I take the advice of some of our members over that of a trained, licensed veterinarian? You bet I
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
I agree -much of the approach to FELV seems based on paranoia, not reality. My vet told me that the virus dies when it hits the air. What I've read is that adult cats with good, normal immune systems just don't pick up that virus. I mixed mine and have not seen a cat come down with FELV from associating with an FELV cat in a normal household environment. Gloria At 03:46 AM 6/21/2006, you wrote: In a message dated 6/20/2006 11:15:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This only tells me it's not nearly as hard to catch as they try and make people believe. And I still don't think it would be very easy to catch by grooming, I would watch Bailey and joey groom each other and they actually would groom and touch tongues and Joey still never got it!!
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
Or is the real question...What if the risk from the vaccine is greater than the disease it self.. Like small pox... Tad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the spirit of acceptance and being able to share ideas -I, myself,mix FeVL+ and FeVL- cats. Are there risks? Yes. Knowledge is power, however, and that is why I vaccinate the ones who are negative and take additional precautions in keeping litterboxes extra clean - keeping food and water dishes extra clean - and pay more attention to frequently washing bedding and keeping shared areas disinfected. There is scientific evidence that the virus is contained in the saliva. Scientific evidence as recent as March 2006. Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include thisancedotal information. Is ancedotal evidence important? Yes - it is...and it is extremely valuable. But there has to be a balance between scientific evidence and practical application. Both are valuable. It is also extremely important to recovery that the cats feel loved, safe, and unstressed. Diet is also very important. All of these things go toward making life better for all of us...not just the cats. I respect your opinion. I also respect your right to disagree and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:46:57 -0700 Subject: Safety first? - On my soapbox again If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the studies that might back up what we've learned here. There are still many vets that don't think shutting the pos away in it's own room is enough of a precaution. These are the vets that take it a step further and advocate euthanasia of asymptomatic cats, not only for the protection of the negs in the household, but for the pos as well! The owners unfortunate enough to put their faith in that kind of expert advice never get the chance to prove them wrong. I know that this list and the history of it's members was a breath of fresh air to me when I was confused, distraught and at the end of my rope. I know that the advice I've received here has
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:40:40 -0400Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again Or is the real question...What if the risk from the vaccine is greater than the disease it self..Like small pox...Tad[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the spirit of acceptance and being able to share ideas -I, myself,mix FeVL+ and FeVL- cats. Are there risks? Yes. Knowledge is power, however, and that is why I vaccinate the ones who are negative and take additional precautions in keeping litterboxes extra clean - keeping food and water dishes extra clean - and pay more attention to frequently washing bedding and keeping shared areas disinfected. There is scientific evidence that the virus is contained in the saliva. Scientific evidence as recent as March 2006. Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include thisancedotal information. Is ancedotal evidence important? Yes - it is...and it is extremely valuable. But there has to be a balance between scientific evidence and practical application. Both are valuable. It is also extremely important to recovery that the cats feel loved, safe, and unstressed. Diet is also very important. All of these things go toward making life better for all of us...not just the cats. I respect your opinion. I also respect your right to disagree and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:46:57 -0700Subject: Safety first? - On my soapbox again If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarcerated humans and ask them if they'd rather take their chances standing free in a thunder storm. Maybe my view on this has to do with watching, loving and learning from my feral colonies. Perhaps it's just a rationalization to help me cope with not being able to fully protect the "wild" cats that I love, but I am convinced that they would not be living as full or as happy a life if they were forced to live in captivity. So, as it's too late to not make this a long-winded response, I'll try to at least cut it short... Should the experts update their websites? You bet they should. Part of the problem is that the updating we are looking for is mostly from anequdotal evidence and the experts don't put a great deal of credence in what guardians like us have discovered. At the same time, no one seems willing to do the studies that might back up what we've learned here. There are still many vets that don't think shutting the pos away in it's own room is enough of a
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
Wow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my "Taz" drawn on charcoal. In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverCheck sites for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WAhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttps://www.paypal.com/http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescue
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:33 am Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Wow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my Taz drawn on charcoal. I agree. It is a beautiful drawing.
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
Thanks! Here's one I did of Celena in charcoal and pencil. She passed away a few years ago. I really need to do portraits of the eight I have now - it really helps you remember them. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/celena.html *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:30:07 EDTSubject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing Wow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my "Taz" drawn on charcoal. In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html [Image removed] Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverCheck sites for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WAhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet![Image removed] http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttps://www.paypal.com/http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescue Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
So beautiful...do you do commissions? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:39 am Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Thanks! Here's one I did of Celena in charcoal and pencil. She passed away a few years ago. I really need to do portraits of the eight I have now - it really helps you remember them. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/celena.html *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:30:07 EDT Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing Wow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my Taz drawn on charcoal. In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoal drawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html [Image removed] Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Owner/Driver Check sites for available Siameses for adoption! http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/ Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WA http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html Petfinder.com Adopt a Homeless Pet! [Image removed] http://www.petfinder.com/ http://www.felineleukemia.org/ http://www.petloss.com/ TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS https://www.paypal.com/ http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescue ___ _ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
You have a great talent, that's a beautiful drawing. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
I looked at all of your work and they are all really good! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include this ancedotal information. I personally know someone who just lost a horse to rabies. It was unvaccinated and sadly she, her hubby, her nephew and his wife and their three kids, 2 vets, 2 vet techs, and several friends were exposed and had to take rabies shots, and her entire herd of horses and her dogs. Rabies is freakin' scary and I vaccinate every animal I have for it. (now off MY soapbox!) Steph
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again--Rabies
We just had an incident here in Houston where a highschooler was bitten by a rabid bat...unfortunately, his family caught the signs too late and no one could do anything for him...he died a few weeks ago. It's been a nutty year...another woman was bitten by a bat last week and the news station ran a story about how it took her 2 or 3 days to get treatment as none of the emergency hospitals around here had the necessary vaccine/antidote! Scary stuff! But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan George The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long... --Blade Runner - Original Message - From: Stephanie E Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:23 pm Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include this ancedotal information. I personally know someone who just lost a horse to rabies. It was unvaccinated and sadly she, her hubby, her nephew and his wife and their three kids, 2 vets, 2 vet techs, and several friends were exposed and had to take rabies shots, and her entire herd of horses and her dogs. Rabies is freakin' scary and I vaccinate every animal I have for it. (now off MY soapbox!) Steph
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
That's beautiful!Gina[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Thanks! Here's one I did of Celena in charcoal and pencil. She passed away a few years ago. I really need to do portraits of the eight I have now - it really helps you remember them.http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/celena.html*Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:30:07 EDTSubject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawingWow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my "Taz" drawn on charcoal.In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul.http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html[Image removed] Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverCheck sites for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WAhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet![Image removed] http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttps://www.paypal.com/http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescueCheck out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.No heaven wil not ever Heaven be Unless my cats are there to welcome me.--epitaph in a pet cemetery Tiggertales ~ a site about our beloved felines Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much more to come.
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again
Beautiful. =^..^= Terri, Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, Travis, Dori and 6 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec Salome' =^..^= Cool Catholic Stuff! Click Here -- www.TotallyCatholic.com/Theresa Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350Come check me out on MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/terricrazycatlady - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Tad Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:40:40 -0400Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again Or is the real question...What if the risk from the vaccine is greater than the disease it self..Like small pox...Tad[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the spirit of acceptance and being able to share ideas -I, myself,mix FeVL+ and FeVL- cats. Are there risks? Yes. Knowledge is power, however, and that is why I vaccinate the ones who are negative and take additional precautions in keeping litterboxes extra clean - keeping food and water dishes extra clean - and pay more attention to frequently washing bedding and keeping shared areas disinfected. There is scientific evidence that the virus is contained in the saliva. Scientific evidence as recent as March 2006. Nobody I know has ever contracted rabies. I don't know of any pets personally who have gotten rabies either. I could probably let all my cats run free and they might never contract rabies. That, however, would be irresponsible - in my view - knowing the risk is there and not taking preventative measures. Ancedotal evidence indicates that my cats probably won't get rabies. I disagree, however, that veterinarians and expert websites should change their information to include thisancedotal information. Is ancedotal evidence important? Yes - it is...and it is extremely valuable. But there has to be a balance between scientific evidence and practical application. Both are valuable. It is also extremely important to recovery that the cats feel loved, safe, and unstressed. Diet is also very important. All of these things go toward making life better for all of us...not just the cats. I respect your opinion. I also respect your right to disagree and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:46:57 -0700Subject: Safety first? - On my soapbox again If the only place you could be with your loved ones and not feel like a prisoner, was to stand in thunder storms, (even with a pole in your arms), I wonder how much more ready to risk it someone might be. I don't know how well this analogy works, but when you're talking about a pos being segregated away from family fur members and confined to one room "for each other's safety", there are other things to consider besides the "safest" course of action. There is some debate about just how social cats are, how necessary to their well being it is to interact with each other. I just know from personal experience that it is important to my guys. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had some warning about the status of my felv kids. They had already been mixed, and even though it did give me pause, there was really no decision to be made. I can only tell you how grateful I am that I didn't separate them from the rest of the household. Maybe I'm fortunate to not have had anyone else contract the disease, the majority of this list has had the same experience, but there are some that have not. I guess part of my decision making process always includes the aspect of what I consider quality of life. I've never been a proponent of quantity over quality. Cats need to interact in as "free" and stimulating an environment as possible. Of course it's important to keep them safe, but I wonder what their answer would be if we posed the question to them directly. We could always pole incarce
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
Again -- simply beautiful.. =^..^= Terri, Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, Travis, Dori and 6 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec Salome' =^..^= Cool Catholic Stuff! Click Here -- www.TotallyCatholic.com/Theresa Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350Come check me out on MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/terricrazycatlady - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing Thanks! Here's one I did of Celena in charcoal and pencil. She passed away a few years ago. I really need to do portraits of the eight I have now - it really helps you remember them. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/celena.html *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:30:07 EDTSubject: Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing Wow...that drawing is great! Did you draw your kitty? I would love to have my "Taz" drawn on charcoal. In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tad - that is an excellent point and one that deserves careful consideration. I lost my Felicity to vaccine related fibrosarcoma and although it happened many years ago, I still grieve. Here is a link to a charcoaldrawing I did of her. She was a very dear soul. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/felicity.html [Image removed] Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverCheck sites for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WAhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet![Image removed] http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttps://www.paypal.com/http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescue Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Re: Safety first? - On my soapbox again/charcoal drawing
That is awesome too such beautiful drawings! I love the name Celena for a kitty. In a message dated 6/21/2006 9:38:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks! Here's one I did of Celena in charcoal and pencil. She passed away a few years ago. I really need to do portraits of the eight I have now - it really helps you remember them. http://www.trentdesigns.com/elizabeth/celena.html Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverCheck sites for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNOHOMISH_COUNTY_PETS_in_WAhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttps://www.paypal.com/http://www.frappr.com/wasiameserescue
