RE: Separating the kitty household
I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. both of their immune system is compromised already, and there is a greater chance of your 15 yr old baby is going to get FeLK from Chief - is there any way to keep them separately.. I know many people on the list mix with FeLK positives with negatives together and lots of people who has FIV cats mix FIV positive and negatives together.. but when each of kitty already has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Seperating the kitty household I need a bit of advise... Right now I have two kitties, Rosie (15 y/o, mom was a stray, she's lived with me all her life, FIV+), and Chief (formerly TeeCee renamed while I was on vacation and adopted by my dad, FELV+ Intact male). Rosie hasn't handled Chief's addition to the household well, she hates him. Last week she moved behind the ironing board, refused to come out, and had bathroom accidents because Chief wouldn't let her out of hte kitchen. He's not mean, just wants to be friends, but he's 22lbs and she's 6... He's HUGE compared to her. So, two nights ago I started taking her to her litter box. She'll potty if I do (boxes are in the bathroom), and then taking her to bed. We dont' have central heat, so sleeping with her locked in my room is chilly, but she's much happier and hasn't had accidents. My problem is that Chief lays up against the door and wails. He doesn't meow or holler, he wails, long drawn out sounds that sounds like he's being tortured. All night... last night I got up and threw socks through the crack in the door until he left. (I had a migraine to boot and felt like ringing his oversize white neck). What can I do to make the situation more peaceable? Steph
Re: Separating the kitty household
Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out that she could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune. Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it. Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut... Steph
RE: Separating the kitty household
Oh... I am so sorry that you are torn... well.. one thing I can suggest is that do the introduction process start all over again. It will take a while, but it's very doable.. I have two cats who wanted to kill each other, (literally, one of the bigger one goes to a throat of a smaller one to kill), but after re-introduction, now they are completely happy! They don't groom each other or anything, they happily co-exist - I usually use screen door between rooms instead of solid door and/or a crate technique.. but never throw them into a room with no protection..what have you tried? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:05 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out that she could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune. Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it. Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut... Steph
Re: Separating the kitty household
Steph, I like Hideyo's idea of the screen door. Could you put one on your bedroom door? That way poor lonely Chief might not feel so isolated. I'd also rig him a wonderful cozy bed right by the door. You'd be able to talk to him through the screen door too. I understand not wanting to alienate Rosie, after all, she was there first. I also understand the fears of mixing fiv and felv together, but I have made the decision that once someone is a member of the household, their a member all the way. I would keep talking to them and watching their behavior. For instance, when you see Chief blocking Rosie's path in the kitchen, (for whatever reason), I'd step between them and tell Chief to respect Rosie and let her pass! Keep reminding him that he's lucky she allows him to share her home, that she's the Grand Dam and he needs to honor her majesty! I'd talk to Rosie and tell her how important it is to you to have her help in smoothing out Chief's rough edges. Ask her to help you get through to Chief that his behavior is not acceptable. That you love her, but you want him to be happy too. It may take a while, but you guys will figure this out. If Chief doesn't back off, give him a time out, (a very short one, just a couple of minutes), behind a closed door. Set him up with a room of his own, maybe a bathroom? Make it comfortable in there, give him everything he needs and use that as his time out space. Spend lots of time confined in there with him. When you go in with Chief, (not after he's been naughty!), tell Rosie you're going to spend some time with Chief to try and help him understand his position in the family, (below Queen Rosie!). When he's pushy with Rosie and doesn't back down when you tell him to, let him cool his heels in his room. Then let him out and try again. Keep telling him being in the house is a privilege, he has to follow the rules! It took months for our socially retarded, cat hating, Kimba to get it, but get it he finally did. Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Oh... I am so sorry that you are torn... well.. one thing I can suggest is that do the introduction process start all over again. It will take a while, but it's very doable.. I have two cats who wanted to kill each other, (literally, one of the bigger one goes to a throat of a smaller one to kill), but after re-introduction, now they are completely happy! They don't groom each other or anything, they happily co-exist - I usually use screen door between rooms instead of solid door and/or a crate technique.. but never throw them into a room with no protection..what have you tried? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:05 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out that she could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune. Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it. Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut... Steph
RE: Separating the kitty household
Yep. I have a screen door everywhere in the house, as I constantly introducing new kitties from time to time, some are permanently installed, and others are just standing their (leaving the main sold door open and just stick the screen door on and hold it by chair or something) they can sniff each other and see each other.. after all they get used to smells of each other, they usually stop paying much attention From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:48 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Steph, I like Hideyo's idea of the screen door. Could you put one on your bedroom door? That way poor lonely Chief might not feel so isolated. I'd also rig him a wonderful cozy bed right by the door. You'd be able to talk to him through the screen door too. I understand not wanting to alienate Rosie, after all, she was there first. I also understand the fears of mixing fiv and felv together, but I have made the decision that once someone is a member of the household, their a member all the way. I would keep talking to them and watching their behavior. For instance, when you see Chief blocking Rosie's path in the kitchen, (for whatever reason), I'd step between them and tell Chief to respect Rosie and let her pass! Keep reminding him that he's lucky she allows him to share her home, that she's the Grand Dam and he needs to honor her majesty! I'd talk to Rosie and tell her how important it is to you to have her help in smoothing out Chief's rough edges. Ask her to help you get through to Chief that his behavior is not acceptable. That you love her, but you want him to be happy too. It may take a while, but you guys will figure this out. If Chief doesn't back off, give him a time out, (a very short one, just a couple of minutes), behind a closed door. Set him up with a room of his own, maybe a bathroom? Make it comfortable in there, give him everything he needs and use that as his time out space. Spend lots of time confined in there with him. When you go in with Chief, (not after he's been naughty!), tell Rosie you're going to spend some time with Chief to try and help him understand his position in the family, (below Queen Rosie!). When he's pushy with Rosie and doesn't back down when you tell him to, let him cool his heels in his room. Then let him out and try again. Keep telling him being in the house is a privilege, he has to follow the rules! It took months for our socially retarded, cat hating, Kimba to get it, but get it he finally did. Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Oh... I am so sorry that you are torn... well.. one thing I can suggestis that do the introduction process start all over again. It will takea while, but it's very doable.. I have two cats who wanted to kill eachother, (literally, one of the bigger one goes to a throat of a smallerone to kill), but after re-introduction, now they are completely happy!They don't groom each other or anything, they happily co-exist -I usually use screen door between rooms instead of solid door and/or acrate technique.. but never throw them into a room with noprotection..what have you tried? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Steph ECaldwellSent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:05 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Separating the kitty householdHideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out thatshe could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about thesituation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune.Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it.Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut...Steph
Re: Separating the kitty household
@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out that she could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune. Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it. Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut... Steph
RE: Separating the kitty household
Well.. any stress is the biggest enemy when coming to the immune compromising virus disease like FIV and FeLV --- I recommend that the priority will be minimizing the stress for both kitties - if he is chasing her, I really think that he should not be freely interacting with Rosie - I will be very concerned about her since she is a senior cat in addition to FIV baby.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:03 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I usually use screen door between rooms instead of solid door and/or a crate technique.. but never throw them into a room with no protection..what have you tried? Well... At first Cheif lived solely in my room with the door closed. Then he got sick, and he lived in a crate in the living room. Then he moved to a 4 x 4 cage in the living room, coming out to visit and exercise a bit. Then he got run of the house a few weeks ago (provided he doesn't spray anything... I kind of overreacted last tiem he sprayed and carryied him around the house yelling at him for a few minutes, he hasn't done it again since then). The problem is that he's finally feelign good. So, he hides and jumps out to play with Rosie. But, she's scarred and runs, and he thinks she's playing, and he chases her, and... It's not that their trying to hurt each other, she's just scarred senseless of him. She used to be a fighter and was top cat, but she's lost quite a few teeth, got hurt in several falls from the bookcase and kitchen cabinets, and she just can't defend herself anymore. It's hard to see her get old and not be as mobile... Steph
Re: Separating the kitty household
Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: chasing her, I really think that he should not be freely interacting with Rosie - I will be very concerned about her since she is a senior cat in addition to FIV baby.. Darn! I wanted some easy solution, but I think seperation is my only solution given her age and her health... it's teh only fair solution to her, and him... well, he'll just have to do without me for the 5 hours a night I sleep! Rosie has gotten so loveable since I moved her into my room. She's purred constantly for the last two days, and at work has been much more social. My family owns an insurance agency, so I can bring a sick animal to work with me... But, Rosie comes every day, and sometimes I take her out shopping, too... She's got a little harness and leash, and a little snuggly that I wrap her in, and we go to Lowes or Home Depot, she goes with us... Rosie is very standoffish, but the past few days seems apprecaitive of havign her space and being able to sleep in bed, in peace instead of on the cold floor behind my ironing board... Rosie has a thing for sleeping on books and catalogs, so I put her a stack on my nightstand and she sleeps there, right under my lamp. I put an incandesant bulb in and leave it on at night for her warmth, and I can reach out and touch her whenever I happen to wake up, and she has steps made out of boxes to get on the bed, since it's so high and she can't jump... But, in the night if we have to go potty (she cries in my face if she needs to potty or water), then I'll carry her into the bathroom, close the door, she does her business, I carry her back and put her back to bed Sweet kitty, huh? Steph
RE: Separating the kitty household
I personally recommend that you wait to get the third one at this point,, it's too stressful for Rosie.. it might work out and it might not - and if it did not, you will have a more headache than you do now.. I think, you might want to keep separating two with screen door for now.. I want to really advise that you give a peaceful time for Rosie, which could mean, she may not be integrated with the other kitty for now.. I am just concerned how stressful she might be and I hate it effecting her health. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:17 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Yep. I have a screen door everywhere in the house, as I constantly introducing new kitties from time to time, some are permanently installed, and others are just standing their (leaving the main sold door open and just stick the screen door on and hold it by chair or something) - they can sniff each other and see each other.. after all they get used to smells of each other, they usually stop paying much attention ... I think if I had three cats that things would be better... another young kitty for Chief to play with, but my family doesn't want another animal in the house... Steph
RE: Separating the kitty household
You can perhaps take a turn every day who gets the entire house (except one that the other stays) --- I have a friend who does it, and works well) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steph E Caldwell Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:05 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Separating the kitty household Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I guess, I have a little bit concern regarding mixing FIV positive with FeLV positive together even if they got along well.. I tried total seperation when we first got Chief. Rosie lived in my room, had seperate food, water, and litter. But, she wasn't happy locked in my room unless I was in there. So, she pulled all her hair out that she could reach and started spraying things. has something that they are fighting against, I am concerned about the situation. I worry, too... She's vacinated for it, spent a good bit of her early life outside, so I think she's pretty well immune. Rosie goes to work with me everyday, so they're only together for a few hours. They do share litter boxes and a waterdish, but that's it. Right now, she's happy in my room at night, but now Chief doesn't have anywhere to sleep and he's unhappy with my door shut... Steph
Re: Separating the kitty household
Hmm... Rosie's failing health, and the fact that you've tried to dissuade Chief from initiating play changes things. I'd suggest bringing in another fiv kid to interact with Chief, but that would probably upset Rosie... You talked about a hole behind the ironing board and it gave me an idea. Since Rosie is so much smaller than Chief, could you rig small safe houses in several rooms near, or on the floor where Rosie could retreat to? You could make the openings small enough for Rosie, but not large enough for Chief and the interiors deep enough to give Rosie a sense of security. I'm a big believer in allowing our geriatric friends the opportunity to live their last years in peace and harmony. Chief's not making this easy for you guys! How about a rigged kitty door that's only large enough for Rosie to squeeze through to your bedroom? That way she'd have a room that she could come and go to, if she chooses, and Chief could only gain admittance when you're there to supervise. Your sweet girl deserves some peace! I'm sorry to hear about Rosie's tumors, I pray she recovers and the tumors remain small and benign. It's wonderful that her mom and sister lived such long lives, but it makes the transition of moving on with our lives without them even harder. It's so hard to adjust :( . N Steph E Caldwell wrote: Nina, I've been running interference between these two since last December! Chief moved in three nights after my Alphie passed... I think part of it with Rosie is that she wasn't ready for another kitty in the household, and maybe she views him as taking Alphie from her? I let her see Alphie before he burried her, but we all took that hard. She didn't eat for a week afterwords unless I sat with her. Then I started bringing her to work because she couldn't handle being alone, and she still doesn't like to be alone. I have talked to Chief and told him that, and I've talked to her, but she's just flat out scarred of him. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body, and if she approaches his dish while he's eating, he leaves and lets her have it, if he approahes her while she's eating, she doesn't leave, but won't eat, either. He's being playful, she's scarred, runs, and he chases her because he wants to play... It's gotten some better since he and I play (we play tag, when he's through playing he gets on his safe spot and I pet him), but she's scarred to come out because she can't defend herself. Rosie's health is starting to fail, she's got some tumors growing in her abdomen, but right now she's in good weight, coat looks good, and she's eating, so my vet and I decided to leave them be and pray they're benign. I wouldn't put her through surgery if they're cancer, and I wouldn't treat her any different than I am now. She's old, and I'm not going to heroics to keep her alive. Her balance has also gotten poor and she's taken some pretty bad falls off previous perches and she literally can't get away from him other than this little hole behind the ironing board. Until her last fall from the top of the kitchen cabinets she had a few high perches that only she could get on, but now she's unable to jump more than a foot or so. So, I'm not just dealing with the social aspect, but the ailing health of my Rosie... I lost her mom three years ago, she was at least 15, but probably older, and I lost her sister last year at 13... So, her family had a good long life, but she's still getting on up in years...
