[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
Dieder-- Have you tried the same experiment with Digital ICE set in the Normal setting rather than Fine? I find virtually no image information when I do a difference between a No Digital ICE scan and a Normal Digital ICE scan. I have been looking for some Nikon documentation on when to use Normal and when to use Fine. So far I haven't found any. Do you have any information? Jack Phipps Kodak's Austin Development Center Formerly, Applied Science Fiction Developers of Digital ICE, Digital ROC, Digital SHO, Digital GEM, Digital GEM Airbrush I suggest you look for any detail removed with Digital ICE because there will probably not be any detail removed. The reason the image may look less sharp is because the eye is being tricked by the surface defects (dust, scratches, etc.). There shouldn't be any residual silver in C-41 processed film. The reason the eye is tricked is because the eye is looking for the finest detail in the image to judge sharpness. In many cases the finest details are the surface defects. When those are removed the image appears less sharp when actually the image detail remains. A simple test can provide the additional confirmation/refutation of this. Scan a negative with a film scanner that can do precise line repeat scanning, i.e. a film-scanner such as the LS-4000 etc. Do one scan with ICE on 'fine', another without 'ICE' pop both images into Photoshop. Superimpose one as a layer against the other and do a 'difference' mode for the layers. Images w/o ICE are noticeably sharper, though more dirty. For myself, it isn't that much of an issue except for a few scans so by default I use ICE, but for the most imp't scans, I don't use ICE and do scratch/detail repair by hand. Dieder Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
Although I'm not a big fan of some versions of dICE (due to the fact that it can tend to soften the whole image due to residual silver removal (which it infers is dust or dirt)), or if the IR is not exactly tuned to the dye spectrum frequencies, it does work on most E-6 developed slides, and some Kodachrome versions. Otherwise, I agree with the other exceptions you mention. Art LAURIE SOLOMON wrote: Two points need to be made. One deals with one of your comments concerning getting ICE. ICE only works with color negtives or chromgenic black white films. It does not work with silver halide films like true bw films. The second point, which is not one that addresses anything that you have said but something that someone else said, deals with blowing compressed air into the scanner. This does not remove the dust from inside the scanner; it only moves the dust around inside the scanner. Moreover, the compressed air blast can damage fragile innards of the scanner as well as create condensation inside the scanner which will eventually produce moisture on the electronics and water spots on optical mirrors and sensors. Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
on 11/10/04 1:32 AM, Arthur Entlich at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I'm not a big fan of some versions of dICE (due to the fact that it can tend to soften the whole image due to residual silver removal (which it infers is dust or dirt)), or if the IR is not exactly tuned to the dye spectrum frequencies, it does work on most E-6 developed slides, and some Kodachrome versions. Otherwise, I agree with the other exceptions you mention. Art LAURIE SOLOMON wrote: Two points need to be made. One deals with one of your comments concerning getting ICE. ICE only works with color negtives or chromgenic black white films. It does not work with silver halide films like true bw films. The second point, which is not one that addresses anything that you have said but something that someone else said, deals with blowing compressed air into the scanner. This does not remove the dust from inside the scanner; it only moves the dust around inside the scanner. Moreover, the compressed air blast can damage fragile innards of the scanner as well as create condensation inside the scanner which will eventually produce moisture on the electronics and water spots on optical mirrors and sensors. I am shooting only negative (C-41) films, almost all ISO 100 to 400 color, occasionally BW (C-41). Is there a consensus about how well dICE works with these films? I am concerned about any softening since I am printing large. Berry Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
I suggest you look for any detail removed with Digital ICE because there will probably not be any detail removed. The reason the image may look less sharp is because the eye is being tricked by the surface defects (dust, scratches, etc.). There shouldn't be any residual silver in C-41 processed film. The reason the eye is tricked is because the eye is looking for the finest detail in the image to judge sharpness. In many cases the finest details are the surface defects. When those are removed the image appears less sharp when actually the image detail remains. A simple test can provide the additional confirmation/refutation of this. Scan a negative with a film scanner that can do precise line repeat scanning, i.e. a film-scanner such as the LS-4000 etc. Do one scan with ICE on 'fine', another without 'ICE' pop both images into Photoshop. Superimpose one as a layer against the other and do a 'difference' mode for the layers. Images w/o ICE are noticeably sharper, though more dirty. For myself, it isn't that much of an issue except for a few scans so by default I use ICE, but for the most imp't scans, I don't use ICE and do scratch/detail repair by hand. Dieder Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
on 11/9/04 2:46 AM, Chris Aitken at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Further to my previous messages I have obtained a Scan Dual I on trial. I have tried it with the Vuescan trial version (and also the Minolta drivers - so this must be a later model that works on XP). Although my negatives were clean and visually dist free, there must be a fair amount of dust in my camera lenses. Also the scanner may have been dusty, as the scanned imaged (done at max resolution ~ 2400 ppi) appeared to have dust scratches. Firstly: What can I do to prevent dust entering the scanner? Should I be turning it on a while before using it? Secondly: Software dust removal? I have tried the AKVIS retoucher, and wasn't to impressed. I have also tried Polaroid's DSR, which I like, although I found the standalone app better than the photoshop plugin. This was based on something that would sort out an entire scan, without having to highlight each individual piece of dust/artefacts (the polaroid did a very good job of doing this). Can anyone recommend other apps, and where to get them (The DSR apparently is not available in europe!). Cheers Chris -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- -- Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Chris, Just a couple of comments: Dust is a huge headache, especially here in dry New Mexico. I have scanned what look like pretty clean negatives and discovered hundreds of dust particles visible in the scanned image. I would say try to keep a pretty clean work area, which has been a real challenge for me. A very good thing to have is Dust-Off, or preferably one of the cheaper brands of compressed air you can buy at a photo shop for about $6. Use it to blast the dust off your negs. Hold the neg up at an angle to light to see the reflection just so to highlight any dust. I also use compressed air occasionally to clear dust out of my scanner, taking care not to abuse or freeze any delicate parts. I give it about 5+ seconds of low pressure, inserting the air tube a couple inches into the scanner door. The dust in your camera can cause scratches on the film, but it is not the source of dust on your negatives. That happens after processing, either in the lab or more likely after you pull them out at home. You can also use the Dust Off to clean your camera. They make smaller cans that take up less room if you want to carry it in your camera bag for when you change film in the field. Did you really get a Scan Dual I? You can get a new IV for $250 - $270 on the web. Berry Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
Chris Aitken wrote: Hi All, Further to my previous messages I have obtained a Scan Dual I on trial. I have tried it with the Vuescan trial version (and also the Minolta drivers - so this must be a later model that works on XP). As an alternative to blasting air at the negative before scanning as mentioned to you already, there's a brush called 'staticmaster that has a polonium strip near the brush end that puts out alpha particles (can't penetrate a sheet of paper, at best can do only inches of air). It removes static instantly from the film at which point the very soft brush works very effectively. Half life of the polonium is very short so it's cartridge needs to be replaced yearly (and buying old ones isn't useful). They've been around for at least a half century or so, and I just got another one a couple days ago for use with my new film scanner. The other thing is the obvious nobody's going to mention. Borrow a different scanner, one that features ICE in the software. Gets rid of dust and scratches amazingly and automatically. :-) Mike K. Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] RE: Software dust removal
Two points need to be made. One deals with one of your comments concerning getting ICE. ICE only works with color negtives or chromgenic black white films. It does not work with silver halide films like true bw films. The second point, which is not one that addresses anything that you have said but something that someone else said, deals with blowing compressed air into the scanner. This does not remove the dust from inside the scanner; it only moves the dust around inside the scanner. Moreover, the compressed air blast can damage fragile innards of the scanner as well as create condensation inside the scanner which will eventually produce moisture on the electronics and water spots on optical mirrors and sensors. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Kersenbrock Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal Chris Aitken wrote: Hi All, Further to my previous messages I have obtained a Scan Dual I on trial. I have tried it with the Vuescan trial version (and also the Minolta drivers - so this must be a later model that works on XP). As an alternative to blasting air at the negative before scanning as mentioned to you already, there's a brush called 'staticmaster that has a polonium strip near the brush end that puts out alpha particles (can't penetrate a sheet of paper, at best can do only inches of air). It removes static instantly from the film at which point the very soft brush works very effectively. Half life of the polonium is very short so it's cartridge needs to be replaced yearly (and buying old ones isn't useful). They've been around for at least a half century or so, and I just got another one a couple days ago for use with my new film scanner. The other thing is the obvious nobody's going to mention. Borrow a different scanner, one that features ICE in the software. Gets rid of dust and scratches amazingly and automatically. :-) Mike K. Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.792 / Virus Database: 536 - Release Date: 11/9/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.792 / Virus Database: 536 - Release Date: 11/9/2004 Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
[filmscanners] Re: Software dust removal
May I also recommend Edwal anti-static film cleaner. My computer store sells very soft disposable material for cleaning CD's/DVDs, and combined with Edwal's anti-static cleaner, it is easy to reduce the amount of dust to a minimum - near zero. I've been using Edwal in tandem with the StaticMaster mentioned below since being called on the carpet while in the photographic program at Art Center College of Design (Pasadena), for not getting all the white spots off my prints. I lived in an areas where there was highway construction in every direction. After more than 30 years of using it, I hate its smell, but it saves hours of retouching. Somehow I thought I wouldn't need it to use Edwal when I went to scanning my negatives - to the contrary, my scanner seems to pick up finer dust than the best Leitz enlarger ever did. I also suspect that all labs have some problem with dust - I don't process my own film anymore. I use compressed air as well, just before I put the negative into the scanner. (Can you tell, I hate cleaning up dust spots.) I've never found a software solution that preserved the sharpness I can see in my negative scans while taking out the dust - or reducing grain for that matter. There are times when software solutions are ok, but I hate losing that last edge - after all I bought Contax cameras and lenses for a reason. The Edwal is also great for cleaning film that has picked up fingerprints and other corruption. I have an eight year old son who loves to look at his dad's slides and negatives. I'll not to be forbid his touching. He tries but isn't always successful in avoiding fingerprints. Nuts, I still put some on every now and then... My new monitor just came to the door - in the hands of a UPS guy. Now to see what fun this provides. Brad Chris Aitken wrote: Hi All, Further to my previous messages I have obtained a Scan Dual I on trial. I have tried it with the Vuescan trial version (and also the Minolta drivers - so this must be a later model that works on XP). As an alternative to blasting air at the negative before scanning as mentioned to you already, there's a brush called 'staticmaster that has a polonium strip near the brush end that puts out alpha particles (can't penetrate a sheet of paper, at best can do only inches of air). It removes static instantly from the film at which point the very soft brush works very effectively. Half life of the polonium is very short so it's cartridge needs to be replaced yearly (and buying old ones isn't useful). They've been around for at least a half century or so, and I just got another one a couple days ago for use with my new film scanner. The other thing is the obvious nobody's going to mention. Borrow a different scanner, one that features ICE in the software. Gets rid of dust and scratches amazingly and automatically. :-) Mike K. -- -- Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body Unsubscribe by mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], with 'unsubscribe filmscanners' or 'unsubscribe filmscanners_digest' (as appropriate) in the message title or body
