RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format (questions, questions)
Since it is my post that is cited below or to which this post has been attached, I will respond. With the introduction of the Scan Multi II, Minolta introduced a Universal Film Holder which was I holder with masks that you cut your self ( I do not know if it was glassless or not). The customized masks were furnished to permit the user to locate and position the various sections of the different medium format film frames so as to center each of the sections ion the center of the holder so that section could be scanned at the maximum optical resolution of 2820 dpi, which was reserved for 35mm film using the 35mm film holders, and which would be stitched together later using third party software. This film holder along with the newly upgraded scanner software introduced at the same time as the Scan Multi II and the Universal Film Holder allowed for 2820 dpi full frame medium format optical resolution scanning. The same holder and software could also be used with the original Scan Multi to do the same thing thereby upgrading it to a Scan Multi II. With the Scan Multi Pro, there appears to be the introduction of a new optional accessory the Multi Format Set in addition to the Universal Film Holder and the other film holders that now come as included standard equipment with the scanner. This leads me to think that the Multi Format Set is something different from and in addition to the Universal Film Holder; but I do not have the slightest idea how it differs from the Universal Film Holder or works in conjunction with it. Minolta in their infinite wisdom has not supplied any description or information on this optional accessory, what it does, or how it works. What you say about it being just the customizable mask set for the Universal Film Holder may be accurate. I do not know and cannot find out because of Minolta's silence in providing information on it even though they make a point of mentioning it in the Multi Scan Pro spec sheet as an optional accessory under whose use certain specifications can be gotten. What you note regarding Vuescan is correct but it only accomplishes an optical 2820 resolution scan of the entire medium format frame if you scan the frame in sections and stitch those sections together later via some third party software just as in the case of the Minolta software. True, it is cheaper than the Minolta software; but it is still a pain in the butt and requires extra effort to acquire a full frame medium format 2820 optical resolution scan and to stitch the sections together - not to mention the additional costs and problems of attempting to stitch the sections together accurately and cleanly - just as is the case for the Minolta software. Moreover, to scan in sections with the Vuescan software so that those sections can be stitched might require the Universal film Holder and its customizable masks as well. If one has to get them as an accessory, then they are packaged with the Minolta software at $200 US cost so one might as well use the Minolta software that comes with the holder. The last statement may not hold true for those who own the Scan Multi Pro if the Universal holder and customizable masks come with the scanner at no additional cost; but then again in that case you already own the Minolta software anyway so why go out and get a different but similar version of it such as Vuescan. Flatbed scanners with film or transparency adapters will work in most cases if one is satisfied with an optical resolution of around 1200 dpi for a medium format film (since the early two Scan Multi film scanners - the original and II - only do straight entire frame medium format scans without interpolation at an optical 1140 dpi). However if one wants higher optical resolution scans for whatever reason, one would have to use one of the higher resolution flatbed scanners such as the Agfa T2500 which typically can cost more than the Minolta medium format film scanners. The advantages and disadvantages of flatbed scanners seem to revolve around what type of medium format film you are scanning (negatives or transparencies, color or black and white). Most flatbed scanners do not have scanning software that is capable of accounting for the orange masking on color negative film ( although some third party software for flatbeds do handle those masks); sometimes flatbed scanners tend to generate noise when scanning silver based black and white film due to the scanner capturing the grain structure of the silver crystals in the emulsion which happens less with film scanners if I am not mistaken. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Erik Kaffehr Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format (questions, questions) Hi! I got the impression that Multi Format Set is just a glassless carrier with mask you can cut yourself. Vuescan, which is avalable for 40 USD (I think) does
Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format (questions, questions)
Hi! I got the impression that Multi Format Set is just a glassless carrier with mask you can cut yourself. Vuescan, which is avalable for 40 USD (I think) does 2820 scan across an MF film, but covers just a 24 mm area. Vuescan can bed downloaded from www.hamrick.com/vsm.html for test. Did you consider using a flatbed scanner for MF? I sort of consider buying the Scan Multi Pro, if I can afford it. On the other hand I do A3 prints from my 6x7 slides, and I don't think they lack in sharpness. Regards Erik Kaffehr tisdagen den 18 december 2001 21.12 skrev du: > Other than the info I cited, there are no pictures of the Universal Film > Holder for any of the scanners or of the Milti Format Set accessory; what > is worse is that I could find no specifications or detailed information on > either. You might want to check in your manual to see it says anything > about the two since you say you have the Scan Multi Pro film scanner. I > only have the original Scan Multi and do not have either the upgraded > software which they want to charge $100 for nor the Universal Film Holder > which comes ith the software at an expensive price since I would find it a > pain to have to do all the repositioning and stitching just to get the > increased optical resolutions. > > -- Erik Kaffehr[EMAIL PROTECTED] alt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariebergsvägen 53 +46 155 219338 (home) S-611 66 Nyköping +46 155 263515 (office) Sweden -- Message sent using 100% recycled electrons --
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format (PPI BS)
Erik, > The Minolta DiMAGE Scan Multi PRO does 4800 PPI on 135 film, and 3200 on > 120. Scanning at 4800 PPI may give som additional resolution in one > direction, depending on the physical size of the pixel. The other > direction > is entirely interpolated. That's not what I understand. I believe the magnification is changed to get the horizontal resolution, and the vertical resolution (stepping of the film) is done at 3200 or 4800...since the stepper can move at 9600, that allows both resolutions to be stepped. I believe Ed Hamrick stated that also in this newsgroup. > I'd be surprised if there was any > practical (that > is visible) advantage of using 4800 PPI compared with 3200 PPI. Sure there is a practical advantage of higher resolution (if the film has it to give), it depends on the size of your output... > These curves go to 40 lpmm (which corresponds to 2032 PPI) Well, actually it takes slightly more than 2x to scan, so if you want to RELIABLY scan 40lp/mm, you need slightly more than 4000SPI. Regards, Austin
Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format (PPI BS)
t; My tentative conclusion is that you may think you are scanning the entire > medium format frame at an optical 4800 dpi when in reality it is an > interpolated 4800 dpi. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:32 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. > > First of all, based on the way the film holders work, it's physically > impossible to scan a piece of medium format film in the way you're > describing. That is, unless you cut up the film in 24mm wide sections and > use the 35mm holder. > > Also, on the subject of interpolation, it's debatable whether or not the > Scan Multi Pro is doing interpolation (as people usually think of it) to > reach 4800 dpi with medium-format film. Why is it debatable? Because it > actually extracts more information from the film at 4800 dpi than it does > at 3200 dpi. I've never heard of interpolation that extracts more useful > information from the film. > > I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is needed to scan > at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. > > Paul Wilson > > > -Original Message- > > From: LAURIE SOLOMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:52 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > > > > I think some clarification is needed hear. The Minolta > > medium format film > > scanners which includes both the Scan Multi, Scan Multi II, > > and Scan Multi > > Pro do not require one to scan in sections and do post scan > > stitching for > > formats up to 6x9cm at the maximum optical resolutions for > > those formats > > (e.g., 1120 DPI for the two Scan Multi models and 3200 DPI > > Scan Multi Pro). > > However, in the case of the two earlier Scan Multi models and > > possibly the > > Scan Multi Pro model, to achieve the maximum optical > > resolution of 2280 > > optical DPI in the case of the two earlier models and 4800 > > optical in the > > case of the Multi Pro model, one does need to scan the medium > > format film > > (even up to 6x9cm formats) in sections and engage in post > > scan stitching. > > One can scan the film in those scanners in one pass without scanning > > sections and stitch at the 2280 dpi and 4800 dpi levels of > > resolution but > > those resolutions are interpolated resolutions and not optical. > > > > As far as I know, the software trickery behind the scenes > > that you refer to > > is the process of interpolation where the software upsamples > > the scan via > > mathematical formulas and is not a means for achieving an > > optical scan at > > that resolution from medium format film. As an operator, I > > am afraid that > > you do have to do something out of the ordinary to achieve > > the 4800 dpi > > optical resolution from the medium format film 6x9cm and under. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 PM > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > > > > No, that's not what I said. > > > > Simply stated, the Minolta Scan Multi Pro (and the various > > versions of the > > Scan Multi) do not require you to stitch pieces of an image > > together in > > Photoshop when scanning medium format film. This is true up > > to 6x9cm film. > > If you can a bigger format such as 6x12 or 6x17, then you'll > > have to stitch > > 2 scans together to get the whole image. > > > > Now for a different subject. The Scan Multi Pro has an > > optical resolution > > for medium format film of 3200 dpi. It will do some fancy > > trickery behind > > the scenes that will get you 4800 dpi for medium format film. > > You as the > > operator do not need to do anything out of ordinary to > > achieve 4800 dpi. > > > > Paul Wilson > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:07 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > > > > >My initial question was in regard to "adivse" on film scanne
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
Other than the info I cited, there are no pictures of the Universal Film Holder for any of the scanners or of the Milti Format Set accessory; what is worse is that I could find no specifications or detailed information on either. You might want to check in your manual to see it says anything about the two since you say you have the Scan Multi Pro film scanner. I only have the original Scan Multi and do not have either the upgraded software which they want to charge $100 for nor the Universal Film Holder which comes ith the software at an expensive price since I would find it a pain to have to do all the repositioning and stitching just to get the increased optical resolutions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:07 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format Actually, it looks like I'm at least partially wrong on this. I didn't know about this other film holder. Are there any pictures of it on the web? They have versions for both the Scan Multi and the Scan Multi Pro. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: LAURIE SOLOMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:19 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > >For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. > > Ok, I am willing to concede and accept this since I was > extrapolating from > the information that I have on the two earlier models and > what I have heard > or read on mailing lists and catalog blurbs for the Multi > Pro. However, it > is not inaccurate or impossible for the two earlier models > using the new > Scan Multi software upgrade and the Universal Film Holder > which was designed > purposefully for the purpose of scanning medium format frames in three > sections by relocating and repositioning the frame in the > holder so as to > achieve maximum optical resolution scans of 2280 DPI across the whole > negative when stitched. Otherwise the medium format frame > could only be > scanned down the center portion at that maximum optical > resolution and then > only when using the newer upgraded Scan Multi software. > > >on the subject of interpolation > > I agree with Ed on this; it certainly is interpolation. I > think it may be > debatable whether or not the scanner is actually extracting > more information > *from the film* at 4800 dpi than at 3200 dpi or if it is as > Ed appears to be > saying - the increase in dpi represents a function of the > mechanics of the > stepper motor and not the amount of information being extracted by the > sensors. > > From the mouth of Minolta (i.e., their web site): > 4,800 dpi scanning > The new Minolta DiMAGE Scan Multi PRO film scanner is > equipped with 4,800 > dpi optical resolution for 35mm. With a pixel count of more > than 33-million, > an A3-size output can retain a resolution of more than 400 > dpi. *Medium > format film also can have a 4,800 dpi interpolated resolution > for up to 6 x > 9cm high-resolution*, clear and crisp images with more than > 169 million > pixels and a 600 dpi. (emphasis indicated by * is mine). > > And in another page of the web site for the Multi Pro: > > Optical Resolution > 35mm film: 4,800 x 4800 dpi > 120/220 film: : 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi > > Maximum Input Resolution > 35mm film: 4,800 x 4,800 dpi > 120/220 film: 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi > > > >I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is > needed to scan > >at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. > > The information on the Minolta site suggests differently in > that it suggests > that to obtain an optical resoplution on medium format up to > 6x9cm you need > to use the optional Multi Format Set accessory which Minolta > describes as: > > Question: What size film can be used in the multi-format > attachment HS-P1? > Answer: The acceptable width in the attachment is 102mm at > maximum. The > height (the length in film loading direction) is not mechanically > restricted, but the film beyond 167mm from the edge cannot be > scanned. The > actual size of the scan area at maximum is 56.5x83.8mm (6x9). > > I assume that this Multi Format Set along with the Universal > Holder permits > one to reposition medium format film frames so as to be able > to scan the > sections at the optical maximum of 4800 dpi resolution > without interpolation > across the entire frame after stitching. I say "assume" > because this was > the case with the earlier models using just the upgraded > software and the &g
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
Actually, it looks like I'm at least partially wrong on this. I didn't know about this other film holder. Are there any pictures of it on the web? They have versions for both the Scan Multi and the Scan Multi Pro. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: LAURIE SOLOMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:19 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > >For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. > > Ok, I am willing to concede and accept this since I was > extrapolating from > the information that I have on the two earlier models and > what I have heard > or read on mailing lists and catalog blurbs for the Multi > Pro. However, it > is not inaccurate or impossible for the two earlier models > using the new > Scan Multi software upgrade and the Universal Film Holder > which was designed > purposefully for the purpose of scanning medium format frames in three > sections by relocating and repositioning the frame in the > holder so as to > achieve maximum optical resolution scans of 2280 DPI across the whole > negative when stitched. Otherwise the medium format frame > could only be > scanned down the center portion at that maximum optical > resolution and then > only when using the newer upgraded Scan Multi software. > > >on the subject of interpolation > > I agree with Ed on this; it certainly is interpolation. I > think it may be > debatable whether or not the scanner is actually extracting > more information > *from the film* at 4800 dpi than at 3200 dpi or if it is as > Ed appears to be > saying - the increase in dpi represents a function of the > mechanics of the > stepper motor and not the amount of information being extracted by the > sensors. > > From the mouth of Minolta (i.e., their web site): > 4,800 dpi scanning > The new Minolta DiMAGE Scan Multi PRO film scanner is > equipped with 4,800 > dpi optical resolution for 35mm. With a pixel count of more > than 33-million, > an A3-size output can retain a resolution of more than 400 > dpi. *Medium > format film also can have a 4,800 dpi interpolated resolution > for up to 6 x > 9cm high-resolution*, clear and crisp images with more than > 169 million > pixels and a 600 dpi. (emphasis indicated by * is mine). > > And in another page of the web site for the Multi Pro: > > Optical Resolution > 35mm film: 4,800 x 4800 dpi > 120/220 film: : 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi > > Maximum Input Resolution > 35mm film: 4,800 x 4,800 dpi > 120/220 film: 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi > > > >I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is > needed to scan > >at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. > > The information on the Minolta site suggests differently in > that it suggests > that to obtain an optical resoplution on medium format up to > 6x9cm you need > to use the optional Multi Format Set accessory which Minolta > describes as: > > Question: What size film can be used in the multi-format > attachment HS-P1? > Answer: The acceptable width in the attachment is 102mm at > maximum. The > height (the length in film loading direction) is not mechanically > restricted, but the film beyond 167mm from the edge cannot be > scanned. The > actual size of the scan area at maximum is 56.5x83.8mm (6x9). > > I assume that this Multi Format Set along with the Universal > Holder permits > one to reposition medium format film frames so as to be able > to scan the > sections at the optical maximum of 4800 dpi resolution > without interpolation > across the entire frame after stitching. I say "assume" > because this was > the case with the earlier models using just the upgraded > software and the > then optional Universal holder alone and because I dould not find any > detailed information on the Minolta site regarding the Multi > Format SET > optional accessory or how it works. > > My tentative conclusion is that you may think you are > scanning the entire > medium format frame at an optical 4800 dpi when in reality it is an > interpolated 4800 dpi. >
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
>For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. Ok, I am willing to concede and accept this since I was extrapolating from the information that I have on the two earlier models and what I have heard or read on mailing lists and catalog blurbs for the Multi Pro. However, it is not inaccurate or impossible for the two earlier models using the new Scan Multi software upgrade and the Universal Film Holder which was designed purposefully for the purpose of scanning medium format frames in three sections by relocating and repositioning the frame in the holder so as to achieve maximum optical resolution scans of 2280 DPI across the whole negative when stitched. Otherwise the medium format frame could only be scanned down the center portion at that maximum optical resolution and then only when using the newer upgraded Scan Multi software. >on the subject of interpolation I agree with Ed on this; it certainly is interpolation. I think it may be debatable whether or not the scanner is actually extracting more information *from the film* at 4800 dpi than at 3200 dpi or if it is as Ed appears to be saying - the increase in dpi represents a function of the mechanics of the stepper motor and not the amount of information being extracted by the sensors. From the mouth of Minolta (i.e., their web site): 4,800 dpi scanning The new Minolta DiMAGE Scan Multi PRO film scanner is equipped with 4,800 dpi optical resolution for 35mm. With a pixel count of more than 33-million, an A3-size output can retain a resolution of more than 400 dpi. *Medium format film also can have a 4,800 dpi interpolated resolution for up to 6 x 9cm high-resolution*, clear and crisp images with more than 169 million pixels and a 600 dpi. (emphasis indicated by * is mine). And in another page of the web site for the Multi Pro: Optical Resolution 35mm film: 4,800 x 4800 dpi 120/220 film: : 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi Maximum Input Resolution 35mm film: 4,800 x 4,800 dpi 120/220 film: 4,800 (by interpolation) x 4,800 dpi >I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is needed to scan >at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. The information on the Minolta site suggests differently in that it suggests that to obtain an optical resoplution on medium format up to 6x9cm you need to use the optional Multi Format Set accessory which Minolta describes as: Question: What size film can be used in the multi-format attachment HS-P1? Answer: The acceptable width in the attachment is 102mm at maximum. The height (the length in film loading direction) is not mechanically restricted, but the film beyond 167mm from the edge cannot be scanned. The actual size of the scan area at maximum is 56.5x83.8mm (6x9). I assume that this Multi Format Set along with the Universal Holder permits one to reposition medium format film frames so as to be able to scan the sections at the optical maximum of 4800 dpi resolution without interpolation across the entire frame after stitching. I say "assume" because this was the case with the earlier models using just the upgraded software and the then optional Universal holder alone and because I dould not find any detailed information on the Minolta site regarding the Multi Format SET optional accessory or how it works. My tentative conclusion is that you may think you are scanning the entire medium format frame at an optical 4800 dpi when in reality it is an interpolated 4800 dpi. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:32 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. First of all, based on the way the film holders work, it's physically impossible to scan a piece of medium format film in the way you're describing. That is, unless you cut up the film in 24mm wide sections and use the 35mm holder. Also, on the subject of interpolation, it's debatable whether or not the Scan Multi Pro is doing interpolation (as people usually think of it) to reach 4800 dpi with medium-format film. Why is it debatable? Because it actually extracts more information from the film at 4800 dpi than it does at 3200 dpi. I've never heard of interpolation that extracts more useful information from the film. I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is needed to scan at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: LAURIE SOLOMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:52 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > I think some clarification is needed hear. The Minolta > medium format film > scanners which includes both the Scan Multi, Scan Multi II, > and Sca
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
> The hardware is perfectly capable of scanning a 40 mm wide piece > of Medium Format film at 4800 dpi using the medium format film > holders. The key is that the lens moves in and out - it can scan > 60 mm width at 4800 dpi or 40 mm width at 3200 dpi. Alright, now I'm confused. So is the lens moving if you scan 40mm wide or 60mm wide? At what point, in terms of film width, does it start interpolating? > An existance proof of this capability is VueScan - set > "Device|Mode" to either "MF 4800 dpi" or "MF 3200 dpi". > > It certainly is interpolating the CCD data from 3200 dpi to 4800 dpi. > > > Because it > > actually extracts more information from the film at 4800 > dpi than it does > at > > 3200 dpi. > > The stepper motor steps at 4800 dpi in this case. The stepper > motor is actually capable of 9600 dpi stepping, and uses a divisor > of 2 to step at 4800 dpi and 3 to step at 3200 dpi. So how does this work? Is it actually obtaining more new data by doing this? Paul Wilson
Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format
In a message dated 12/18/2001 11:43:46 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Alright, now I'm confused. So is the lens moving if you scan 40mm wide or > 60mm wide? At what point, in terms of film width, does it start > interpolating? When you scan at 4800 dpi, the lens is closer to the film so it scans a smaller width. When you scan at 3200 dpi, the lens is farther from the film so it scans a larger width. Regards, Ed Hamrick
Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format
In a message dated 12/18/2001 9:33:40 AM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > First of all, based on the way the film holders work, it's physically > impossible to scan a piece of medium format film in the way you're > describing. That is, unless you cut up the film in 24mm wide sections and > use the 35mm holder. The hardware is perfectly capable of scanning a 40 mm wide piece of Medium Format film at 4800 dpi using the medium format film holders. The key is that the lens moves in and out - it can scan 60 mm width at 4800 dpi or 40 mm width at 3200 dpi. An existance proof of this capability is VueScan - set "Device|Mode" to either "MF 4800 dpi" or "MF 3200 dpi". > Also, on the subject of interpolation, it's debatable whether or not the > Scan Multi Pro is doing interpolation (as people usually think of it) to > reach 4800 dpi with medium-format film. It certainly is interpolating the CCD data from 3200 dpi to 4800 dpi. > Because it > actually extracts more information from the film at 4800 dpi than it does at > 3200 dpi. The stepper motor steps at 4800 dpi in this case. The stepper motor is actually capable of 9600 dpi stepping, and uses a divisor of 2 to step at 4800 dpi and 3 to step at 3200 dpi. Regards, Ed Hamrick
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
For the Scan Multi Pro, this is misleading at best. First of all, based on the way the film holders work, it's physically impossible to scan a piece of medium format film in the way you're describing. That is, unless you cut up the film in 24mm wide sections and use the 35mm holder. Also, on the subject of interpolation, it's debatable whether or not the Scan Multi Pro is doing interpolation (as people usually think of it) to reach 4800 dpi with medium-format film. Why is it debatable? Because it actually extracts more information from the film at 4800 dpi than it does at 3200 dpi. I've never heard of interpolation that extracts more useful information from the film. I have the Scan Multi Pro at home. Simply, no stitching is needed to scan at 3200 dpi or 4800 dpi for medium format film up to 6x9. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: LAURIE SOLOMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:52 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > I think some clarification is needed hear. The Minolta > medium format film > scanners which includes both the Scan Multi, Scan Multi II, > and Scan Multi > Pro do not require one to scan in sections and do post scan > stitching for > formats up to 6x9cm at the maximum optical resolutions for > those formats > (e.g., 1120 DPI for the two Scan Multi models and 3200 DPI > Scan Multi Pro). > However, in the case of the two earlier Scan Multi models and > possibly the > Scan Multi Pro model, to achieve the maximum optical > resolution of 2280 > optical DPI in the case of the two earlier models and 4800 > optical in the > case of the Multi Pro model, one does need to scan the medium > format film > (even up to 6x9cm formats) in sections and engage in post > scan stitching. > One can scan the film in those scanners in one pass without scanning > sections and stitch at the 2280 dpi and 4800 dpi levels of > resolution but > those resolutions are interpolated resolutions and not optical. > > As far as I know, the software trickery behind the scenes > that you refer to > is the process of interpolation where the software upsamples > the scan via > mathematical formulas and is not a means for achieving an > optical scan at > that resolution from medium format film. As an operator, I > am afraid that > you do have to do something out of the ordinary to achieve > the 4800 dpi > optical resolution from the medium format film 6x9cm and under. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > No, that's not what I said. > > Simply stated, the Minolta Scan Multi Pro (and the various > versions of the > Scan Multi) do not require you to stitch pieces of an image > together in > Photoshop when scanning medium format film. This is true up > to 6x9cm film. > If you can a bigger format such as 6x12 or 6x17, then you'll > have to stitch > 2 scans together to get the whole image. > > Now for a different subject. The Scan Multi Pro has an > optical resolution > for medium format film of 3200 dpi. It will do some fancy > trickery behind > the scenes that will get you 4800 dpi for medium format film. > You as the > operator do not need to do anything out of ordinary to > achieve 4800 dpi. > > Paul Wilson > > > -Original Message- > > From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:07 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > > > > >My initial question was in regard to "adivse" on film scanner > > >capable of handling medium format...That question got no reply so I > > >began trying to sort out the sales mumbo jumbo and specs and > > >...which led to the realization that some Minolta scanners do > > >not actually scan an entire 120/220 area in one pass,,,that I must > > >"stitch" the image together in Photoshop...At least that is what I > > >think you are telling me( the Minolta info DOES NOT SAY THIS as > > >such...they state interpolation in regards to their max DPI It > > >does seem pretty underhanded that a Mfg would not specify this > > >clearly...never the less..I do not want to get invilved with this > > >"Stitching" process...and now I wonder if any other Mfg's imploy > > >similiar techniques...Totally confused. > > > > A
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
I think some clarification is needed hear. The Minolta medium format film scanners which includes both the Scan Multi, Scan Multi II, and Scan Multi Pro do not require one to scan in sections and do post scan stitching for formats up to 6x9cm at the maximum optical resolutions for those formats (e.g., 1120 DPI for the two Scan Multi models and 3200 DPI Scan Multi Pro). However, in the case of the two earlier Scan Multi models and possibly the Scan Multi Pro model, to achieve the maximum optical resolution of 2280 optical DPI in the case of the two earlier models and 4800 optical in the case of the Multi Pro model, one does need to scan the medium format film (even up to 6x9cm formats) in sections and engage in post scan stitching. One can scan the film in those scanners in one pass without scanning sections and stitch at the 2280 dpi and 4800 dpi levels of resolution but those resolutions are interpolated resolutions and not optical. As far as I know, the software trickery behind the scenes that you refer to is the process of interpolation where the software upsamples the scan via mathematical formulas and is not a means for achieving an optical scan at that resolution from medium format film. As an operator, I am afraid that you do have to do something out of the ordinary to achieve the 4800 dpi optical resolution from the medium format film 6x9cm and under. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format No, that's not what I said. Simply stated, the Minolta Scan Multi Pro (and the various versions of the Scan Multi) do not require you to stitch pieces of an image together in Photoshop when scanning medium format film. This is true up to 6x9cm film. If you can a bigger format such as 6x12 or 6x17, then you'll have to stitch 2 scans together to get the whole image. Now for a different subject. The Scan Multi Pro has an optical resolution for medium format film of 3200 dpi. It will do some fancy trickery behind the scenes that will get you 4800 dpi for medium format film. You as the operator do not need to do anything out of ordinary to achieve 4800 dpi. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:07 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > >My initial question was in regard to "adivse" on film scanner > >capable of handling medium format...That question got no reply so I > >began trying to sort out the sales mumbo jumbo and specs and > >...which led to the realization that some Minolta scanners do > >not actually scan an entire 120/220 area in one pass,,,that I must > >"stitch" the image together in Photoshop...At least that is what I > >think you are telling me( the Minolta info DOES NOT SAY THIS as > >such...they state interpolation in regards to their max DPI It > >does seem pretty underhanded that a Mfg would not specify this > >clearly...never the less..I do not want to get invilved with this > >"Stitching" process...and now I wonder if any other Mfg's imploy > >similiar techniques...Totally confused. > > Andy > > > > > >It's the Scan Multi Pro that does medium format. > > > >Are you talking about scanning an image that's bigger than > what the scanner > >can handle (say 6x17) and then stitching in Photoshop? Or, > are you talking > >about the way the scanner gets to 4800 dpi for medium format? > > > >Scanning a 6x17 would pretty much be the same as either the > Polaroid or > >Nikon except that you'd have to reposition the film in the > holder. For 4800 > >dpi for mf, supposedly the Minolta doesn't actually > interpolate but scans > >pieces and then stitches. I don't know the particulars of > this but it does > >seem to actually get more usable detail from MF > transparencies at 4800 vs. > >3200. > > > >Paul Wilson > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 7:50 AM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format > >> > >> > >> Greetings, > >>does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta > >> medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. > >> ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the > >> 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > > > scanning the entire image? > > > Andy > > > -- > > > > > > -- >
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
No, that's not what I said. Simply stated, the Minolta Scan Multi Pro (and the various versions of the Scan Multi) do not require you to stitch pieces of an image together in Photoshop when scanning medium format film. This is true up to 6x9cm film. If you can a bigger format such as 6x12 or 6x17, then you'll have to stitch 2 scans together to get the whole image. Now for a different subject. The Scan Multi Pro has an optical resolution for medium format film of 3200 dpi. It will do some fancy trickery behind the scenes that will get you 4800 dpi for medium format film. You as the operator do not need to do anything out of ordinary to achieve 4800 dpi. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:07 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > >My initial question was in regard to "adivse" on film scanner > >capable of handling medium format...That question got no reply so I > >began trying to sort out the sales mumbo jumbo and specs and > >...which led to the realization that some Minolta scanners do > >not actually scan an entire 120/220 area in one pass,,,that I must > >"stitch" the image together in Photoshop...At least that is what I > >think you are telling me( the Minolta info DOES NOT SAY THIS as > >such...they state interpolation in regards to their max DPI It > >does seem pretty underhanded that a Mfg would not specify this > >clearly...never the less..I do not want to get invilved with this > >"Stitching" process...and now I wonder if any other Mfg's imploy > >similiar techniques...Totally confused. > > Andy > > > > > >It's the Scan Multi Pro that does medium format. > > > >Are you talking about scanning an image that's bigger than > what the scanner > >can handle (say 6x17) and then stitching in Photoshop? Or, > are you talking > >about the way the scanner gets to 4800 dpi for medium format? > > > >Scanning a 6x17 would pretty much be the same as either the > Polaroid or > >Nikon except that you'd have to reposition the film in the > holder. For 4800 > >dpi for mf, supposedly the Minolta doesn't actually > interpolate but scans > >pieces and then stitches. I don't know the particulars of > this but it does > >seem to actually get more usable detail from MF > transparencies at 4800 vs. > >3200. > > > >Paul Wilson > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 7:50 AM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format > >> > >> > >> Greetings, > >>does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta > >> medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. > >> ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the > >> 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > > > scanning the entire image? > > > Andy > > > -- > > > > > > -- >
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
>My initial question was in regard to "adivse" on film scanner >capable of handling medium format...That question got no reply so I >began trying to sort out the sales mumbo jumbo and specs and >...which led to the realization that some Minolta scanners do >not actually scan an entire 120/220 area in one pass,,,that I must >"stitch" the image together in Photoshop...At least that is what I >think you are telling me( the Minolta info DOES NOT SAY THIS as >such...they state interpolation in regards to their max DPI It >does seem pretty underhanded that a Mfg would not specify this >clearly...never the less..I do not want to get invilved with this >"Stitching" process...and now I wonder if any other Mfg's imploy >similiar techniques...Totally confused. Andy >It's the Scan Multi Pro that does medium format. > >Are you talking about scanning an image that's bigger than what the scanner >can handle (say 6x17) and then stitching in Photoshop? Or, are you talking >about the way the scanner gets to 4800 dpi for medium format? > >Scanning a 6x17 would pretty much be the same as either the Polaroid or >Nikon except that you'd have to reposition the film in the holder. For 4800 >dpi for mf, supposedly the Minolta doesn't actually interpolate but scans >pieces and then stitches. I don't know the particulars of this but it does >seem to actually get more usable detail from MF transparencies at 4800 vs. >3200. > >Paul Wilson > >> -Original Message- >> From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 7:50 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format >> >> >> Greetings, >>does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta >> medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. >> ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the >> 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > > scanning the entire image? > > Andy > > -- > > --
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
True and a good point that I did not mention, focusing more on the idea of scanning medium format at maximum optical resolutionjs without focusing on any particular model. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Erik Kaffehr Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format Hi! Just want to add that Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro also has a real 3200 PPI resolution for 120 (MF) film, which is almost a three times improvement over older models. Regards Erik Kaffehr lördagen den 15 december 2001 16.54 skrev du: > First it is not the "Dimage Scan II" that scans medium format but the > Dimage Scan Multi, the Dimage Scan Multi II, and the Dimage Scan Multi Pro > which scan medium format films. Minolta's model naming system can get very > confusing with like sounding and looking names. The Dimage Scan II, I > believe, is one of their 35mm film scanner models. > > Second, on the scanners that you are referring too, the Minolta scanner > software DOES NOT provide segment stitching features; you have to do this > manually in a program like Photoshop or by means of some "automated > stitching" third party software. > > Moreover, the ability to scan 1/3 sections of the film at the full optical > 35mm resolution is not a hardware feature of the named Minolta medium > format scanner but a function of a combination scanner software and > hardware film holder. If you use the two with any of the three medium > format models you can scan a medium format frame in sections at the > scanners full 35mm optical resolution; it is not peculiar or unique to any > of the medium format models of scanner offered by Minolta. What is unique > to the hardware of the newest medium format Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro > model is that it has a hardware infrared channel which allows for a dICE > feature which the two earlier Dimage Scan Multi models did not have. > > As for "Does/will this work as well as scanning the entire image?", one has > to answer tentatively yes but it is a time consuming pain in the butt to > work in sections and then to stitch them together as opposed to doing a > high optical scan of the entire frame. Between each of the three sectional > scans, one has to take out the film holder and rearrange the film in it so > as to relocate a new section in the proper orientation in the proper > location within the universal film holder. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andy D'Angelo > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > Greetings, > does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta > medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. > ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the > 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > scanning the entire image? > Andy -- Erik Kaffehr[EMAIL PROTECTED] alt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariebergsvägen 53 +46 155 219338 (home) S-611 66 Nyköping +46 155 263515 (office) Sweden -- Message sent using 100% recycled electrons --
Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format
Hi! Just want to add that Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro also has a real 3200 PPI resolution for 120 (MF) film, which is almost a three times improvement over older models. Regards Erik Kaffehr lördagen den 15 december 2001 16.54 skrev du: > First it is not the "Dimage Scan II" that scans medium format but the > Dimage Scan Multi, the Dimage Scan Multi II, and the Dimage Scan Multi Pro > which scan medium format films. Minolta's model naming system can get very > confusing with like sounding and looking names. The Dimage Scan II, I > believe, is one of their 35mm film scanner models. > > Second, on the scanners that you are referring too, the Minolta scanner > software DOES NOT provide segment stitching features; you have to do this > manually in a program like Photoshop or by means of some "automated > stitching" third party software. > > Moreover, the ability to scan 1/3 sections of the film at the full optical > 35mm resolution is not a hardware feature of the named Minolta medium > format scanner but a function of a combination scanner software and > hardware film holder. If you use the two with any of the three medium > format models you can scan a medium format frame in sections at the > scanners full 35mm optical resolution; it is not peculiar or unique to any > of the medium format models of scanner offered by Minolta. What is unique > to the hardware of the newest medium format Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro > model is that it has a hardware infrared channel which allows for a dICE > feature which the two earlier Dimage Scan Multi models did not have. > > As for "Does/will this work as well as scanning the entire image?", one has > to answer tentatively yes but it is a time consuming pain in the butt to > work in sections and then to stitch them together as opposed to doing a > high optical scan of the entire frame. Between each of the three sectional > scans, one has to take out the film holder and rearrange the film in it so > as to relocate a new section in the proper orientation in the proper > location within the universal film holder. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andy D'Angelo > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > Greetings, > does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta > medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. > ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the > 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > scanning the entire image? > Andy -- Erik Kaffehr[EMAIL PROTECTED] alt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mariebergsvägen 53 +46 155 219338 (home) S-611 66 Nyköping +46 155 263515 (office) Sweden -- Message sent using 100% recycled electrons --
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
It's the Scan Multi Pro that does medium format. Are you talking about scanning an image that's bigger than what the scanner can handle (say 6x17) and then stitching in Photoshop? Or, are you talking about the way the scanner gets to 4800 dpi for medium format? Scanning a 6x17 would pretty much be the same as either the Polaroid or Nikon except that you'd have to reposition the film in the holder. For 4800 dpi for mf, supposedly the Minolta doesn't actually interpolate but scans pieces and then stitches. I don't know the particulars of this but it does seem to actually get more usable detail from MF transparencies at 4800 vs. 3200. Paul Wilson > -Original Message- > From: Andy D'Angelo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 7:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format > > > Greetings, > does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta > medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. > ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the > 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as > scanning the entire image? > Andy > -- >
RE: filmscanners:minolta and med format
First it is not the "Dimage Scan II" that scans medium format but the Dimage Scan Multi, the Dimage Scan Multi II, and the Dimage Scan Multi Pro which scan medium format films. Minolta's model naming system can get very confusing with like sounding and looking names. The Dimage Scan II, I believe, is one of their 35mm film scanner models. Second, on the scanners that you are referring too, the Minolta scanner software DOES NOT provide segment stitching features; you have to do this manually in a program like Photoshop or by means of some "automated stitching" third party software. Moreover, the ability to scan 1/3 sections of the film at the full optical 35mm resolution is not a hardware feature of the named Minolta medium format scanner but a function of a combination scanner software and hardware film holder. If you use the two with any of the three medium format models you can scan a medium format frame in sections at the scanners full 35mm optical resolution; it is not peculiar or unique to any of the medium format models of scanner offered by Minolta. What is unique to the hardware of the newest medium format Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro model is that it has a hardware infrared channel which allows for a dICE feature which the two earlier Dimage Scan Multi models did not have. As for "Does/will this work as well as scanning the entire image?", one has to answer tentatively yes but it is a time consuming pain in the butt to work in sections and then to stitch them together as opposed to doing a high optical scan of the entire frame. Between each of the three sectional scans, one has to take out the film holder and rearrange the film in it so as to relocate a new section in the proper orientation in the proper location within the universal film holder. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andy D'Angelo Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: filmscanners:minolta and med format Greetings, does anyone have any experience or advise re. using the Minolta medium format scanner(dimage Scan II) and their stiching software. ??I understand these med format scanners scan 35mm portions of the 120 and "stitch" the scans together,Does/will this work as well as scanning the entire image? Andy --
