[Finale] FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes
Title: FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes I'm experiencing lots of flaky behaviour re Mass Edit and copying/pasting and I know some of this has been covered in the last month or two but could someone bring me up to date please. I'm using a PPCG4 1.25GHz DP Mirror Door OSX 10.3.9 and a new PowerbookG4 1.67GHz OSX 10.4.2. COPYING/PASTING I'm trying to copy/past a solo line of florid clarinet solo using the Finder used to copy everything now it seems to miss out measure Smart Shapes eg hairpins (cresc/dim). Using the Mass Edit with all filters ON (even measure Smart Shapes) still doesn't copy the cresc/dim hairpins or other shapes. Am trying Robert Patterson's Plug-in demo and this seems to work most of the time but other times I get empty measures pasted. ERRATIC MEASURE SMART SHAPES using Smart Shapes measure attached shapes is hit and miss. They mostly tend not to stick where they're placed and bounce around with only slightest move with the mouse. Very erratic and frustrating. The music is a florid clarinet solo with considerable grace notes. Even on straight stretches of notes the hairpins bouncing around when I nudge them slightly into position. Note attached smart shapes are OK. I've tried this on both my desktop and powerbook Macs and same behaviour. any ideas/suggestions would be most welcomed -- cheers, Claudio Claudio Pompili composer, sound designer, music consultant http://www.claudiopompili.net.au/ (**2002-2003 Golden Web Award**) AMC http://www.amcoz.com.au ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Urgent advice needed
On Sep 2, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: No. I believe the only way to slash beamed grace notes is to create a slash as a graphic expression and then apply that expression to the various instances of beamed grace notes. It is far easier to use the Smart Shape line tool for this, especially inasmuch as the position and angle of the slash will vary from one group to another. This really is something that Finale ought to provide for. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Urgent advice needed
A big thank you to all who responded to my questions. I agree that Finale should provide for slashed beamed grace notes. While I have used bothgraphic _expression_ and Smart Shape Tool versions, as suggested, for most occasions _expression_ Toolright or left slash (TNR 36 - 48 points) seemed to work just fine. Sasha Weinstangel From:Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:finale@shsu.eduTo:finale@shsu.eduSubject:Re: [Finale] Urgent advice neededDate:Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:10:37 -0400On Sep 2, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:No. I believe the only way to slash beamed grace notes is to create a slash as a graphic _expression_ and then apply that _expression_ to the various instances of beamed grace notes.It is far easier to use the Smart Shape line tool for this, especially inasmuch as the position and angle of the slash will vary from one group to another.This really is something that Finale ought to provide for.Andrew StillerKallisti Music Presshttp://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question
At 9:13 PM -0500 9/2/05, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: When, in response to Johannes' comment; Just out of curiosity, I am currently wondering whether a printed edition from 1978 in the US is still under copyright (for the printed edtion, not for the piece itself, which is from the 19th century)? Dr. Howell writes, If it carries a copyright notice, it is. my own personal experience prompts me to disagree. I own copies of two editions of the same item, one in the public domain in the U.S. by virtue of its age, the other a published, with a copyright notice from the early 1980's. A note by note, expression by expression comparison of the two editions shows that the copyright notice from the 1980's is most likely fraudulent, as the only difference between the two editions is the name of the arranger below the name of the original composer. I do not mean to suggest that this was a common practice, but I do mean to suggest that, in the case of older works, it may be prudent to take the time and effort to verify that the claim of copyright notice is, in fact, legitmately made. Noel is, of course, exactly right. The most egregious example of this kind of behavior I'm aware of is the fraudulent claim of copyright by a certain publisher in an enormous amount of 19th century piano music. I won't name the publisher, but think of yellow covers! But when a local composer wrote a musical version of The Prisoner of Zenda, a few years ago, I checked the book out of the library to read it, and discovered an entirely spurious copyright notice on it since the book was clearly public domain by its date of original publication. So let me amend my response: If it carries a legitimate copyright notice, it is! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Saving BUG?
It seems to be limited to the PC, as I haven't heard of any Mac users reporting it. But it looks like this is a serious and widespread problem on the PC version of F2006. It's great to be able to play back 128 channels, but if you try to save audio or midi output, you only get 16--each instance over-writing the previous one. The discussion on the Forum is getting a bit heated. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: A-NO-NE Music [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: August 31, 2005 2:49 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Saving BUG? ronan / 2005/08/31 / 02:39 PM wrote: I've been playing back F2006 with full GPO with no problems (minimal anyhow). However, I got a shock when I tried to save as midi-everything is crammed into the first 16 channels. This also happens when using Softsynths and save as audio is selected. It's as if the seven other instances of GPO, or Softsynth banks don't exist as far as the saving algorithms are concerned. Yikes! Is this an Win thing? 'Coz I have been exporting to SMF a lot with FinMac2006 with no problem whatsoever. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question
John Howell wrote: At 9:13 PM -0500 9/2/05, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: When, in response to Johannes' comment; Just out of curiosity, I am currently wondering whether a printed edition from 1978 in the US is still under copyright (for the printed edtion, not for the piece itself, which is from the 19th century)? Dr. Howell writes, If it carries a copyright notice, it is. my own personal experience prompts me to disagree. I own copies of two editions of the same item, one in the public domain in the U.S. by virtue of its age, the other a published, with a copyright notice from the early 1980's. A note by note, expression by expression comparison of the two editions shows that the copyright notice from the 1980's is most likely fraudulent, as the only difference between the two editions is the name of the arranger below the name of the original composer. I do not mean to suggest that this was a common practice, but I do mean to suggest that, in the case of older works, it may be prudent to take the time and effort to verify that the claim of copyright notice is, in fact, legitmately made. Noel is, of course, exactly right. The most egregious example of this kind of behavior I'm aware of is the fraudulent claim of copyright by a certain publisher in an enormous amount of 19th century piano music. I won't name the publisher, but think of yellow covers! But when a local composer wrote a musical version of The Prisoner of Zenda, a few years ago, I checked the book out of the library to read it, and discovered an entirely spurious copyright notice on it since the book was clearly public domain by its date of original publication. So let me amend my response: If it carries a legitimate copyright notice, it is! John As for those editions with the yellow covers (and green ink?) I recall looking at many of them and seeing no copyright notice at all. Not being much of a pianist I don't have a very large library of piano music, but I have never liked the layout of much of the music from that publisher and so have tended to buy other editions. Thus I can't lay my hands on any of them. But I do recall having looked at some and not seen any copyright claim at all, other than on the cover design. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes
I did find that when I use the Mass Mover and copy and drag, that everything gets moved, including hairpins. When I copy and paste, as is dictated by the size of my score, hairpins don't paste. Not sure why. Dean On Sep 2, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Claudio Pompili wrote: I'm experiencing lots of flaky behaviour re Mass Edit and copying/ pasting and I know some of this has been covered in the last month or two but could someone bring me up to date please. I'm using a PPCG4 1.25GHz DP Mirror Door OSX 10.3.9 and a new PowerbookG4 1.67GHz OSX 10.4.2. COPYING/PASTING I'm trying to copy/past a solo line of florid clarinet solo using the Finder used to copy everything now it seems to miss out measure Smart Shapes eg hairpins (cresc/dim). Using the Mass Edit with all filters ON (even measure Smart Shapes) still doesn't copy the cresc/dim hairpins or other shapes. Am trying Robert Patterson's Plug-in demo and this seems to work most of the time but other times I get empty measures pasted. ERRATIC MEASURE SMART SHAPES using Smart Shapes measure attached shapes is hit and miss. They mostly tend not to stick where they're placed and bounce around with only slightest move with the mouse. Very erratic and frustrating. The music is a florid clarinet solo with considerable grace notes. Even on straight stretches of notes the hairpins bouncing around when I nudge them slightly into position. Note attached smart shapes are OK. I've tried this on both my desktop and powerbook Macs and same behaviour. any ideas/suggestions would be most welcomed -- cheers, Claudio Claudio Pompili composer, sound designer, music consultant http://www.claudiopompili.net.au/ (**2002-2003 Golden Web Award**) AMC http://www.amcoz.com.au ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes
At 03:16 PM 09/03/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I did find that when I use the Mass Mover and copy and drag, that everything gets moved, including hairpins. When I copy and paste, as is dictated by the size of my score, hairpins don't paste. I believe this has been noted as a bug -- or at least a change in Fin2006. But you know, you can avoid the copy and paste behavior: 1. Select source measures in Mass Mover 2. Scroll to target measures 3. Ctrl-click first measure of destination to copy everything, or shift-click the first measure to invoke the 'Items to Copy' dialog. This *will* copy hairpins. (I don't know what the Mac equivalent of ctrl-click is.) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question
On 3 Sep 2005 at 14:20, dhbailey wrote: As for those editions with the yellow covers (and green ink?) I recall looking at many of them and seeing no copyright notice at all. Not being much of a pianist I don't have a very large library of piano music, but I have never liked the layout of much of the music from that publisher and so have tended to buy other editions. Thus I can't lay my hands on any of them. But I do recall having looked at some and not seen any copyright claim at all, other than on the cover design. By modern standards, in which significant editorial intervention in an edition of public domain music allows you to have copyright on the edited edition, Schirmer would have justly claimed copyright on any number of their editions (most of which date from around 1900, so far as I can tell). There is significant editorial intervention in many of them, including added fingering, altered phrasing, and even recomposed figuration. And the Beethoven edition includes significant footnotes detailing the alterations to the text and suggestions for performance. Likewise with the Grieg Piano Concerto, for instance. Even their Bach editions have significant editorial intervention. I can't say if they stole the fingerings/slurrings/etc. from another publisher (someone would have to do a collation of the existing editions at the time), but the editions seem to me, barring being complete recreations of someone else's edition, to be fully deserving of copyright protection under our modern standards. Now, the law at the time they were printed was quite different, but I don't know exactly how it was different. And many of those Schirmer editions, precisely because of the performance-oriented editing, are extremely interesting documents for recovering evidence about late-19th-century performance practice and pedagogy. I think they're quite valuable documents and somebody should study them in detail. Now, if you want a publisher who is dishonest, try the one with the PINK covers. . . -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Strange Dynamics
Has anyone run across this? I'm working along in a score, everything is cool, then I create a new measure of music, which suddenly plays back at about half the dynamic level it's been previously set for. All up to there is normal. I made no changes in dynamics. Weird ... yes? Dean MacFin 06 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes
Ah, I'll investigate ... thanks, Dean On Sep 3, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 03:16 PM 09/03/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I did find that when I use the Mass Mover and copy and drag, that everything gets moved, including hairpins. When I copy and paste, as is dictated by the size of my score, hairpins don't paste. I believe this has been noted as a bug -- or at least a change in Fin2006. But you know, you can avoid the copy and paste behavior: 1. Select source measures in Mass Mover 2. Scroll to target measures 3. Ctrl-click first measure of destination to copy everything, or shift-click the first measure to invoke the 'Items to Copy' dialog. This *will* copy hairpins. (I don't know what the Mac equivalent of ctrl-click is.) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Bach temperament, was: Re: [Finale] Is Finale 2006 trustable for Mac yet?
On 2 Sep 2005 at 0:19, John Howell wrote:
At 6:34 PM +0200 9/1/05, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 18:07 Uhr Brad Beyenhof wrote:
Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)12=(2/1)7.
Have you heard about the recently discovered Bach tuning,
which is
hidden on the title page of the well-tempered manuscript?
This has been much discussed on the HarpsichordList, where there are
quite a lot of practitioners and even more opinions on non-equal
temperaments. Be assured that it is NOT universally accepted as being
a real discovery, not even as real as the Dead Sea Scrolls, since
it is an interpretation of what could equally well be a decorative
doodle. But you are correct that the only way to test it is to use it
as a tuning guide and judge the results.
Well, the only way to test whether it is a workable temperament is to
use it, but the fact that it might be quite efficacious in Bach's
music is not in any way evidence for whether or not the hypothesis
that it was Bach's preferred tuning is factually correct or not.
The factual evidence stands on its own, independent of the results of
tuning your instrument in the temperament. The tuning tests can
confirm that the hypothesis is plausible or not, but it can't
possibly prove the assertions about fact, which are:
1. Bach had a secret temperament that he used in some/all of his
performance.
2. Bach encoded that tuning system in a decorative device at the top
of the title page of his autograph of the WTC.
These are issues that are factually independent from whatever results
practicing musicians today may find from trying out the hypothesized
tuning system.
Keep in mind that for centuries, epicycles satisfactorily explained
(and predicted) the movement of the planets in the heavens, but were
themselves factually incorrect about how the planets actually moved.
Lots of interesting aspects with this tuning. The most amazing being
that three versions of complete editions didn't notice it (Old Bach
edition, and two versions of NBA, the second done in the 80s or 90s).
All the time it was there staring in our faces!
Or not, as the case may be. You don't really believe that the BG
scholars gave serious consideration to non-equal temperaments, do you?
As far as they were concerned, Wohltemiert meant equal temperament
and that was the end of it. And those were the scholars who trained
the scholars who trained the scholars who worked on the NBA edition.
And most of them were pianists who never heard anything but ET in
their lives!
Well, I don't know how far back you're going with that, but we as
students were exposed to and worked with non-equal tuning systems
back when I was at Oberlin (1980-84), and there was nothing unusual
about it. For me, personally, the revelation on this subject was
sitting down at the new Brombaugh mean-tone organ in Fairchild
Chapel, tuned in mean-tone with split black keys (different pipes for
the sharps and flats), and playing Sweelinck -- it was gloriously
beuatiful and completely unlike what the same music sounded like even
on Oberlin's big Flentrop (which was tuned in a Werchmeister or
Kirnberger temperament, if I'm remembering correctly).
So, it's been quite a long time that mainstream conservatory
education has included teaching about temperaments and alternatives
to equal temperament.
Of course, there's also lots of misinformation out there. When I took
the GRE in 1987 ('88? or maybe I took it in 1984) there was a
question on the exam about what the title of the WTC referred to, and
the only answer that was even close to correct was one that clearly
implied modern equal temperament. At the end of the exam I complained
to the proctor that there was no correct answer to the question. I
was given a form to fill out to send in. I explained that the well
temperaments referred to by Bach's title were not at all the same as
modern fully equal temperament, and that, therefore, there was no
correct answer to the question. I got back a response that the
committee had considered it and was not going to change the wording
of the question.
So, yes, you're right that there are entrenched opinions on this that
are completely wrong.
On the other hand, I'm not terribly against equal temperament. Yes, I
wish it were possible, in the practical sense, for everyone to play
in something more beautiful than ET, but it's hard. For instance, my
group that is working on French Baroque music for sopranos and
continuo is considering using Temperament ordinaire, but that means
significant problems for everyone involved, and that extends outward
in ripples from the four of us in the group that might choose to use
Temperament ordinaire (mean-tone white notes, i.e., pure thirds f-a,
c-e, g-b; pure fifths: b-f#-c#-g#/ab; wide fifths: ab-eb-bb-f, 6th
comma, though that can be adjusted for the music you're playing).
First off, the ogan and harpsichord that we use is not exclusively
Re: [Finale] US copyright question
Thanks to David for bringing in the name Schirmer. I assumed, but wasn't sure. Yellow I got, but the green threw me. (more later) David W. Fenton wrote: ... And many of those Schirmer editions, ... Now, if you want a publisher who is dishonest, try the one with the PINK covers. . . Now, for the benefit of anyone besides myself on the list who is color-blind, does a third party want to link a name, unofficially of course, to this part of the discussion? There are a lot of us males, and more than a few females, who have various color deficiencies, and FAR more things in the world are color-coded than need to be. RBH ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question
On 3 Sep 2005 at 17:44, Raymond Horton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: ... And many of those Schirmer editions, ... Now, if you want a publisher who is dishonest, try the one with the PINK covers. . . Now, for the benefit of anyone besides myself on the list who is color-blind, does a third party want to link a name, unofficially of course, to this part of the discussion? That would be Kalmus, of course. There are a lot of us males, and more than a few females, who have various color deficiencies, and FAR more things in the world are color-coded than need to be. Well, I don't think there was any purpose served in color-encoding the references to publishers -- I was just following the practice already established, for humor's sake. Of course, Kalmus has actually changed its ways and is engraving its own editions, some of them actually respectable new editions and not stolen from anyone else. This has been the case for about the last 10 years, at least. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now OT color-coding unfairness
David W. Fenton wrote: That would be Kalmus, of course. Ray adds: Thanks for the first part of that sentence, David. The of course was not appropriate in this instance, of course! I have played as many or more bad Kalmus editions as any one else on this list. Take a look at the bass trombone part to the Shostakovitch 1st for a real crime - whole passeges left out, and others written in the wrong octave by someone who couldn't figure out how to convert alto clef into bass. Why he/she didn't leave the passage in alto, I don't know. I never associated with Kalmus the color pink. My color-OK family members in the other room say they see other colors on the covers they have - green, etc. Well, I don't think there was any purpose served in color-encoding the references to publishers -- I was just following the practice already established, for humor's sake. Yes, I realized that. I really did not mean to sound like I was criticizing you in this instance, as the pink reference was very much in context (more in context if it was corrrect, I suppose, but, whatever...). It just that there are too many things in the world that are color-coded that don't have to be. A number of years ago, when my orchestra would do some rehearsals at the local large university (U. of Louisville) they would give us these parking passes that would have one shade of a color, supposedly green, on them. I would drive around until and hold the parking pass up next to sign until I found one that looked the same color, as far as I could tell. Then I would come back and find a ticket on my car because that wasn't green, it was brown or something. The supposedly green signs looked NOTHING like the shade of green on the parking pass they'd given me. I'd go to the parking office and complain until they would excuse the ticket. The problem was, they'd say, the parking passes and the signs are printed by two different companies and they're color greens don't match. I suggested that they paint their colors on the sign and the parking pass if they want, but right in the middle put a box with the word GREEN. They said they'd think about it - and did nothing. The next year - same damn thing happened. (I tried my best, believe me.) This time I went to the parking office and screamed louder, making the same suggestion. They said they'd think about it - and did it! I don't know if I'm the only one who had the problem (I doubt it) or the only one who made the suggestion, but it gives me tremendous satisfaction to see those signs there with all the different shades of green and brown on them, but with GREEN and BROWN spelled out in the middle for the 20 or 25% percent of males who are color-deficient. Of course, Kalmus has actually changed its ways and is engraving its own editions, some of them actually respectable new editions and not stolen from anyone else. This has been the case for about the last 10 years, at least. Yes, the Master Music catalog has put out some nice, low-cost, quality editions of works that were formerely available only from high priced foreign sources. One dealer told me it was Kalmus's son, and he was interested in input as to what pieces to bring out. That was several years back, though. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now OT color-coding unfairness
On 3 Sep 2005 at 20:58, Raymond Horton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: That would be Kalmus, of course. Ray adds: Thanks for the first part of that sentence, David. The of course was not appropriate in this instance, of course! I have played as many or more bad Kalmus editions as any one else on this list. . . . The quality of some Kalmus editions is quite high, because until the last decade or so, they were all reprints of someone else's edition, most public domain, but sometimes including foreign editions that are arguably still copyrighted. Kalmus purposely chose to occupy a gray area in regard to copyright, quite unlike Dover, who makes a point of acquiring permission when necessary and of explicitly acknowledging that they are reprinting an out-of-print and/or public domain edition, while also providing value added in the form of short commentaries, translation of supplementary matter and, in the cases of songs, often providing translations of the texts. Kalmus never did that kind of thing -- they just did photographic reprints. But now they do their own engraving and are becoming respectable. . . . Take a look at the bass trombone part to the Shostakovitch 1st for a real crime - whole passeges left out, and others written in the wrong octave by someone who couldn't figure out how to convert alto clef into bass. Why he/she didn't leave the passage in alto, I don't know. I never associated with Kalmus the color pink. My color-OK family members in the other room say they see other colors on the covers they have - green, etc. Well, that's not so much Kalmus's fault as the fault of the editors of whatever edition Kalmus reproduced. My guess it that Kalmus probably reprinted a Soviet edition, because for years Soviet copyrights were not respected in the West. I don't know the exact reasons for that -- perhaps the Soviet Union simply didn't sign the global copyright treaties. But the normal Kalmus edition did have pink covers, just as Peters/Hinrichsen has green covers and Schirmer the yellow covers with dark green ink. Well, I don't think there was any purpose served in color-encoding the references to publishers -- I was just following the practice already established, for humor's sake. Yes, I realized that. I really did not mean to sound like I was criticizing you in this instance, as the pink reference was very much in context (more in context if it was corrrect, I suppose, but, whatever...). Kalmus used pink covers, unquestionably. What's incorrect about it? It just that there are too many things in the world that are color-coded that don't have to be. As a computer programmer, I find color encoding extremely useful as a shorthand method for conveying useful information. I've never had any color-blind clients, so have never had any objections. A number of years ago, when my orchestra would do some rehearsals at the local large university (U. of Louisville) they would give us these parking passes that would have one shade of a color, supposedly green, on them. I would drive around until and hold the parking pass up next to sign until I found one that looked the same color, as far as I could tell. Then I would come back and find a ticket on my car because that wasn't green, it was brown or something. The supposedly green signs looked NOTHING like the shade of green on the parking pass they'd given me. I'd go to the parking office and complain until they would excuse the ticket. The problem was, they'd say, the parking passes and the signs are printed by two different companies and they're color greens don't match. I suggested that they paint their colors on the sign and the parking pass if they want, but right in the middle put a box with the word GREEN. They said they'd think about it - and did nothing. Well, that was a design error -- information conveyed by color ought to be also duplicated in text readable by those with difficulty distinguishing certain colors. [] Of course, Kalmus has actually changed its ways and is engraving its own editions, some of them actually respectable new editions and not stolen from anyone else. This has been the case for about the last 10 years, at least. Yes, the Master Music catalog has put out some nice, low-cost, quality editions of works that were formerely available only from high priced foreign sources. One dealer told me it was Kalmus's son, and he was interested in input as to what pieces to bring out. That was several years back, though. I know someone who did a lot of their engraving (using Score), and the results were quite beautiful (he had been an experienced hand copyist before taking up computer engraving and so the results he got were quite good). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now OT color-coding unfairness
Raymond Horton wrote: ... it gives me tremendous satisfaction to see those signs there with all the different shades of green and brown on them, but with GREEN and BROWN spelled out in the middle for the 20 or 25% percent of males who are color-deficient. I meant to check that figure before I shot off the send button, because it sounded high even though it was the one rattling around in my head. In a quick Google the figure seems to hover at around 7% of men, ranging from a low of 5% to a high of 10%, but the 7% came from what looked like a more accurate source in a quick glance. I suddenly feel more lonely. RBH ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Bach temperament
At 5:30 PM -0400 9/3/05, David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Sep 2005 at 0:19, John Howell wrote: You don't really believe that the BG scholars gave serious consideration to non-equal temperaments, do you? As far as they were concerned, Wohltemiert meant equal temperament and that was the end of it. And those were the scholars who trained the scholars who trained the scholars who worked on the NBA edition. And most of them were pianists who never heard anything but ET in their lives! Well, I don't know how far back you're going with that, but we as students were exposed to and worked with non-equal tuning systems back when I was at Oberlin (1980-84), and there was nothing unusual about it. For me, personally, the revelation on this subject was sitting down at the new Brombaugh mean-tone organ in Fairchild Chapel, tuned in mean-tone with split black keys (different pipes for the sharps and flats), and playing Sweelinck -- it was gloriously beuatiful and completely unlike what the same music sounded like even on Oberlin's big Flentrop (which was tuned in a Werchmeister or Kirnberger temperament, if I'm remembering correctly). Ah, you youngsters!! Oberlin was a beacon in the wilderness in the 70s (don't know about before that), and there were probably a few other places, but I can assure you that mainstream conservatory education did NOT (and likely still does not for the most part) include teaching about temperaments and alternatives to ET. That was certainly the case at Indiana University in the '70s, when i did my graduate work and spent several years on the faculty. We did not use unequal temperaments and we did not play at 415. The successor to my faculty position, Tom Binkely, instituted major changes which led to the formation of the expanded Early Music program, but I'll bet that ET still rules in the studios of the non-EM faculty to this day. After spending two (three?) weeks at the Oberlin Baroque Performance institute in the mid-70s and reveling in the relative purity of intonation and relaxed sound of instruments at 415, members of our Pro Arte Consort traveled out to the Aspen Music Festival to teach and perform. Our first evening there we went to the Chamber Orchestra concert. These were some of the finest young performers from all over the country. And the horrible ET intonation drove us crazy after the Oberlin experience!! We adjusted quickly, of course; the human mind is quite adept at fooling itself. But the experience was amazing. So, there are two choices: 1. everyone plays in Temperament ordinaire (not necessarily appropriate for the repertory of the other group, though probably better than modern ET), OR 2. we play in Temperament ordinaire and our harpsichord tuner is very busy. But no busier than if one group plays at 440 and the other at 415! Only in ET can the keyboard shift be seamless. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now OT color-coding unfairness
David W. Fenton wrote: The quality of some Kalmus editions is quite high, because until the last decade or so, they were all reprints of someone else's edition, most public domain, but sometimes including foreign editions that are arguably still copyrighted. ... Kalmus never did that kind of thing -- they just did photographic reprints. I was told by a teacher of mine, who was old enough to know ( whether he had any other qualifications I don't know), that Kalmus got his start by picking up huge quantities of music amid the destruction of WWII. He never engraved, only photographed. This was great, and terrible. It made huge libraries of great music available at low cost to us Yanks, but which was often reproduced at such small size, and at poor quality, with pencil markings left in for permanant posterity, etc. . The old, traditional Kalmus editions are looked on as one of those problems that orchestral players have to deal with. The only parts they dislike more are the old french parts with the backward quarter rests for eighth rests and other difficulties. . . . Take a look at the bass trombone part to the Shostakovitch 1st for a real crime - whole passeges left out, and others written in the wrong octave by someone who couldn't figure out how to convert alto clef into bass. Why he/she didn't leave the passage in alto, I don't know. ... Well, that's not so much Kalmus's fault as the fault of the editors of whatever edition Kalmus reproduced. My guess it that Kalmus probably reprinted a Soviet edition, because for years Soviet copyrights were not respected in the West... In this case, I believe it WAS Kalmus's fault. It appeared to me that K. had only snatched up the score and had the parts badly hand-copied on this side of the pond. (This would be an EXCELLENT candidate for Masters to issue.) But the normal Kalmus edition did have pink covers, just as Peters/Hinrichsen has green covers and Schirmer the yellow covers with dark green ink. David, you may realize at this point I don't really give a flying F what color the covers are. It doesn't help ID them for millions of us. Kalmus used pink covers, unquestionably. What's incorrect about it? I confuse pink with some other colors, but not green, and brown, which are some of the Kalmus scores I have in my possesion. I think that, and the fact that I already stated that two out of two musician members of my family said they have no recollection of pink being a dominant color of Kalmus scores, might start to add up. But have it your way, it if makes you happier - pink for Kalmus. My point is that calling out a color for a publisher wasn't an efficient way of ID'ing it, IMHO, especially if it isn't universal, and especially if millions of people wouldn't recognize the color, even if it was! It just that there are too many things in the world that are color-coded that don't have to be. As a computer programmer, I find color encoding extremely useful as a shorthand method for conveying useful information. I've never had any color-blind clients, so have never had any objections. Bully for you. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac2k6 mass edit measure smart shapes
Aaron Sherber / 2005/09/03 / 03:46 PM wrote: (I don't know what the Mac equivalent of ctrl-click is.) Probably Cmd+Click, but I am a Opt+Shift+Click guy :-) -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Bach temperament
On 3 Sep 2005 at 22:43, John Howell wrote: At 5:30 PM -0400 9/3/05, David W. Fenton wrote: So, there are two choices: 1. everyone plays in Temperament ordinaire (not necessarily appropriate for the repertory of the other group, though probably better than modern ET), OR 2. we play in Temperament ordinaire and our harpsichord tuner is very busy. But no busier than if one group plays at 440 and the other at 415! Only in ET can the keyboard shift be seamless. Well, 415 is a hoax, so we don't use it at NYU. If we needed to (e.g., for recorders), we have one harpsichord built for 415 (a Dowd French double that is not too great) that we would use. Indeed, when I first arrived at NYU that's exactly what we did, with me playing harpsichord for a group of 3 recorder players (one of whom was also a very fine professional Baroque oboist). Our gamba player played at 415 then, too, but there was no one else in the whole department playing gamba at that point, so she easily could have used one of the other instruments if she needed 440. After a new gamba teacher arrived (the incomparable Margaret Panofsky), since we were specializing in English music, we settled on the standard English pitch of 440 after a couple of years of struggling at 415. Our instruments played *much* better at 440 than at 415, where they were always flabby and unstable. When I ordered my own gamba I insisted that it be built for 440 rather than 415, since I'm convinced that 415 is not really historically justified. It's just as much of a pragmatic compromise as equal temperament, and problematic for as many repertories as it is close to historically appropriate. So, at NYU, we have no issues with 415 vs. 440 because we don't subscribe to the 415 hoax in the first place. I still think that for string players, gut strings are much more important than whether they play at 415 or 440, and the relaxed sound you speak of has more to do with that and the use of Baroque bows than it does with the lower pitch. When the choice is between gut strings and Baroque bows at 415 and gut strings and Baroque bows at 440, the difference is greatly minimized. It's only when the instruments built to work at 415 are involved, like winds and some keyboard instruments, that one gets stuck with 415. But I'm sure different people playing different repertories on different instruments will reach different conclusions about this. All I know is that I started out playing the gamba at 415 and when we switched to 440, it became a much more pleasurable activity (and it wasn't because I'd progressed so much -- it was directly related to the fact that the instruments simply were more responsive at that pitch). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now OT color-coding unfairness
On 3 Sep 2005 at 22:57, Raymond Horton wrote: I confuse pink with some other colors, but not green, and brown, which are some of the Kalmus scores I have in my possesion. I think that, and the fact that I already stated that two out of two musician members of my family said they have no recollection of pink being a dominant color of Kalmus scores, might start to add up. But have it your way, it if makes you happier - pink for Kalmus. I had forgotten about the green Kalmus covers -- I never owned any of those myself, but did use many of them from teachers. Then there are the newer eggshell green glossy covers (the orchestral score series), and I'd forgotten about those. I have no memory of brown Kalmus scores. The pink Kalmus covers I had were all of Bach organ music, but only one of those volumes is on the bookshelf in the proper location. *sigh* I don't know how I manage to lose so much music over the years! But you're right -- Kalmus was not limited to to one color of cover. I just associate pink with Kalmus (although there's some German publisher that uses it, too). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now editions
At 10:57 PM -0400 9/3/05, Raymond Horton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: The quality of some Kalmus editions is quite high, because until the last decade or so, they were all reprints of someone else's edition, most public domain, but sometimes including foreign editions that are arguably still copyrighted. ... That is actually not surprising at all. Because U.S. copyright law was based on date of first publication, and most European law was based on the lifetime of the composer, a great many works were in copyright in Europe but in the public domain in the U.S. Not a grey area at all, just a matter of geography. And their new series of piano-vocal scores of Bach Cantatas is superbly done, beautiful illustration of good modern engraving, with updated and very fine English translations. Don't know whether they offer newly engraved orchestral parts, though. The old, traditional Kalmus editions are looked on as one of those problems that orchestral players have to deal with. The only parts they dislike more are the old french parts with the backward quarter rests for eighth rests and other difficulties. Actually it's backward eight rests for quarter rests. We ran into that with the Saint-Saëns A Minor Cello Concerto last spring. And in point of fact, the French rests are more true to the original Franconian rests from the 13th century (which is still no excuse!!). My guess it that Kalmus probably reprinted a Soviet edition, because for years Soviet copyrights were not respected in the West... ... which, as I understand it, was because the Soviet Union did not recognize or respect the copyright protection of other countries. Actually I don't think there were such things as Soviet copyrights, since nothing belonged to individuals but to the people (but were, of course, administered by party members representing the people!). John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] US copyright question - now editions
On 3 Sep 2005 at 23:34, John Howell wrote: At 10:57 PM -0400 9/3/05, Raymond Horton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: The quality of some Kalmus editions is quite high, because until the last decade or so, they were all reprints of someone else's edition, most public domain, but sometimes including foreign editions that are arguably still copyrighted. ... That is actually not surprising at all. Because U.S. copyright law was based on date of first publication, and most European law was based on the lifetime of the composer, a great many works were in copyright in Europe but in the public domain in the U.S. Not a grey area at all, just a matter of geography. When the US joined the Berne convention, several Dover editions had to be discontinued. And their new series of piano-vocal scores of Bach Cantatas is superbly done, beautiful illustration of good modern engraving, with updated and very fine English translations. Don't know whether they offer newly engraved orchestral parts, though. The friend of mine was engraving piano music for them, so I don't know about orchestral music. [] My guess it that Kalmus probably reprinted a Soviet edition, because for years Soviet copyrights were not respected in the West... ... which, as I understand it, was because the Soviet Union did not recognize or respect the copyright protection of other countries. Actually I don't think there were such things as Soviet copyrights, since nothing belonged to individuals but to the people (but were, of course, administered by party members representing the people!). But I seem to remember that this changed in the early 70s or 80s, did it not? Because a lot of stuff that had previously been available suddenly became unavailable. Hmm, that time frame would suggest a connection to the US joining of the Berne Convention, which was 1978. I just know that there were things that had been available in inexpensive American editions that ended up being withdrawn and went out of print. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
