Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On 2 Jun 2006 at 18:37, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 2, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 02.06.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Jun 2006 at 23:01, Jonathan Smith wrote: Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling. Toggling from scroll to page view has been wired to Ctrl-E as long as I've been using Finale. Perhaps this is a change to on the Mac side to bring it into harmony with keyboard shortcuts that Windows users have had since, oh, say, 1990? I think the reason it was changed was that the original shortcut on the Mac (which quite possibly predates FinWin) was then made an OS X System shortcut. I believe it used to be command-, which is now the system wide shortcut for bringing the next window to the front. Close, but used to be cmd ~. Maybe on non-US keyboard maps it was cmd . Was there something incredibly intuitive about either of those shortcuts that made them somehow superior to Ctrl-E? That was the original point, was it not, that Ctrl-E would be more intuitive for some function whose name began with E, so one would think that the command it replaced must have somehow had some intuitive connection with toggling scroll/page view. At least, I'd think that would be the logical implication of the argument as it was made by the original complainant. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On Jun 3, 2006, at 5:13 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Jun 2006 at 18:37, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 2, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 02.06.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Jun 2006 at 23:01, Jonathan Smith wrote: Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling. Toggling from scroll to page view has been wired to Ctrl-E as long as I've been using Finale. Perhaps this is a change to on the Mac side to bring it into harmony with keyboard shortcuts that Windows users have had since, oh, say, 1990? I think the reason it was changed was that the original shortcut on the Mac (which quite possibly predates FinWin) was then made an OS X System shortcut. I believe it used to be command-, which is now the system wide shortcut for bringing the next window to the front. Close, but used to be cmd ~. Maybe on non-US keyboard maps it was cmd . Was there something incredibly intuitive about either of those shortcuts that made them somehow superior to Ctrl-E? That was the original point, was it not, that Ctrl-E would be more intuitive for some function whose name began with E, so one would think that the command it replaced must have somehow had some intuitive connection with toggling scroll/page view. At least, I'd think that would be the logical implication of the argument as it was made by the original complainant. Nothing really intuitive about it, but it toggling scroll/page view WAS mapped for a long time to the other key, which I think was the complaint, and then I suppose he had used cmd-E for something else, like a QuickKey commmand for toggling enharmonics. But there ARE a whole bunch of keys within easy reach of the command key one-handed (assuming left thumb on the cmd key on a Mac), E being one of them, and tilde ~ being another, which makes them useful for things you do a lot. A one-handed key combo has a lot of advantages, even if an easy mnemonic isn't one of them. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
I use "Show active layer" a lot, along with "changing enharmonic spelling" (who doesn't?)and:Measurement unitsFile Info (where data for text block inserts can be stored)Page SetupExtract Parts (who doesn't?)Update Smart Word Exts (because leaving it on auto slows everything down)Display in/out of concert pitchTile Windows (esp. when copying from one score to another)Numerous Finale and TG Tools Plug-insLarge amounts of Mass Mover menu selectionsInsert/Delete Page breaksOptimizing OptionsAnything to do with lyrics - In fact the only short cuts under the Lyrics tool are for alignment and justification - big deal! Show me even the most basic word processor that doesn't have that.And on and on...My point is that NONE of these 'everyday' tasks have direct finale kbd shortcuts.Why not? When you scan over the allocations they are pretty scant and there are an awful lot of keystrokes still available. I don't see why I should have to waste my time using a third party app. where the shortcuts only need to be altered anyway on each Finale upgrade as they move all the goal posts - I had all that years back with Quickeys. It makes me laugh how the programmers can't be bothered to build in sensible shortcuts but are quite prepared to change all the menu items over and over, knowing full well that hundreds of dedicated users have only now to trawl through all their third party shortcut routines to suit. Real time saver that one. Every upgrade comes with more changes to menus, more items moved to a different locations but with little change in kbd shortcuts (you only have to follow a few threads on this list to realise how confused users get with menu changes) Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling.Why is there no contextual menu for speedy entry like there is for simple entry? I should by now (my 14th upgrade) be able to ctrl click on a note-head and get a drop down menu enabling me to perform all kinds of instant wonders - but no - nothing.While I'm on a rant, which clever Trevor decided to pop in the "Items to copy" dialogue EVERY time I want to mass mover copy something. (Someone, please tell me there is way out of this annoyance, maybe hidden deep in a program options menu that has a double sub dialogue that they have altered 4 times since v 3.5 and is now also located under the MIDI menu/playback/Gargantuan Personal Pain Instruments/Contact Make Music..etc..etc. menu option, but hey! ikey could get me there in one keystroke ;-)) This never happened in 2005 and before. For years I hounded Make Music to make the mass mover selections 'savable'. Finally in v2006 they did that, but on pain of 2 dialogue boxes to get the same job done! This is a move backwards not forwards.Quite frankly, I have found 2006 a let down, it's slower, more clunky and has crashed more. I am still using 2005 for most of my work and for large projects it is a must even if just to save time.For all the money that we all have invested in all those upgrades over all those years you would think that by now they could have covered all corners and even built in their own user defined macros into the program like Word and other classic apps. do. There should be no need for ikeys or Quickeys. All they provide is a cop-out for the finale programmers.Rant over.JonathanOn 2 Jun 2006, at 19:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I have QuicKeys but haven't programmed that macro yet because I don't use "show active layer only" that much. I might use it more often if I had the macro, though. Don Hart on 6/1/06 2:05 PM, Johannes Gebauer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01.06.2006 Don Hart wrote: While I'm at it, does anyone know a mac kbd command for this option, like the one David pointed out on the windows side? I don't think there is one, but anyone who uses Finale without a macro application like iKey is wasting time. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On 2 Jun 2006 at 23:01, Jonathan Smith wrote: Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling. Toggling from scroll to page view has been wired to Ctrl-E as long as I've been using Finale. Perhaps this is a change to on the Mac side to bring it into harmony with keyboard shortcuts that Windows users have had since, oh, say, 1990? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On 02.06.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Jun 2006 at 23:01, Jonathan Smith wrote: Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling. Toggling from scroll to page view has been wired to Ctrl-E as long as I've been using Finale. Perhaps this is a change to on the Mac side to bring it into harmony with keyboard shortcuts that Windows users have had since, oh, say, 1990? I think the reason it was changed was that the original shortcut on the Mac (which quite possibly predates FinWin) was then made an OS X System shortcut. I believe it used to be command-, which is now the system wide shortcut for bringing the next window to the front. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On 02.06.2006 Jonathan Smith wrote: My point is that NONE of these 'everyday' tasks have direct finale kbd shortcuts. Good point, however, I want customizable keyboard commands. Finale has those for Simple, but not anywhere else, including Speedy, which makes using any other language keyboards almost impossible. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On 02 Jun 2006, at 5:01 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: While I'm on a rant, which clever Trevor decided to pop in the Items to copy dialogue EVERY time I want to mass mover copy something. (Someone, please tell me there is way out of this annoyance, maybe hidden deep in a program options menu that has a double sub dialogue that they have altered 4 times since v 3.5 and is now also located under the MIDI menu/playback/Gargantuan Personal Pain Instruments/Contact Make Music..etc..etc. menu option, but hey! ikey could get me there in one keystroke ;-)) This never happened in 2005 and before. For years I hounded Make Music to make the mass mover selections 'savable'. Finally in v2006 they did that, but on pain of 2 dialogue boxes to get the same job done! This is a move backwards not forwards. To bypass, just use opt-click to copy -- the most recently used Items To Copy list is applied. The dialog only shows up when you use opt-shift-click. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On Jun 2, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 02.06.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Jun 2006 at 23:01, Jonathan Smith wrote: Why, oh why is page/scroll view now allocated in 2006 to control E?!! Surely a logical choice would have been 'E'nharmonic spelling. Toggling from scroll to page view has been wired to Ctrl-E as long as I've been using Finale. Perhaps this is a change to on the Mac side to bring it into harmony with keyboard shortcuts that Windows users have had since, oh, say, 1990? I think the reason it was changed was that the original shortcut on the Mac (which quite possibly predates FinWin) was then made an OS X System shortcut. I believe it used to be command-, which is now the system wide shortcut for bringing the next window to the front. Close, but used to be cmd ~. Maybe on non-US keyboard maps it was cmd . Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Kbd Commands Shortcuts
On Jun 2, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: I use Show active layer a lot, along with changing enharmonic spelling (who doesn't?) and: Measurement units File Info (where data for text block inserts can be stored) Page Setup Extract Parts (who doesn't?) Update Smart Word Exts (because leaving it on auto slows everything down) Display in/out of concert pitch Tile Windows (esp. when copying from one score to another) Numerous Finale and TG Tools Plug-ins Large amounts of Mass Mover menu selections Insert/Delete Page breaks Optimizing Options Anything to do with lyrics - In fact the only short cuts under the Lyrics tool are for alignment and justification - big deal! Show me even the most basic word processor that doesn't have that. And on and on... My point is that NONE of these 'everyday' tasks have direct finale kbd shortcuts. And MY point (while agreeing with yours) is the same as the one Dennis B-K has made on occasion: a properly-designed user interface should have well-chosen shortcuts already programmed, without requiring the user to come up with some sort of scheme to implement and remember them. Why should each user have to re-invent the UI wheel for every shortcut, whether through iKey or some built-in macro program in Finale? Like the metatool assignments - I love the fact that 4 is forte (easy mnemonic) and 7 is piano, and everything else falls from there in easy order. I would not have come up with that one on my own, most likely, though it seems all so obvious now. I also like the fact that I can re-assign one if I need to, though I most often don't reassign them. This is a real disadvantage on the Mac, for sure. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
