Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
At 6:51 PM -0600 1/1/11, Robert Patterson wrote: Okay I'm confused. I was under the impression that either the concert key of Eric's piece overall was C major or else the piece as a whole had no key signature. Just a quick comment in passing, since I've seen this confusion before. A concert pitch score is NOT the same as being in C major. A no-key-signature score is NOT the same as being in C major. People confuse the two. C major (no sharps or flats) IS a key signature, but requires transposed key signatures for transposing instruments. A concert pitch score can be in any key with any key signature. We all know this, of course. The facts are easy; the terminology can be confusing. It's just a sematic confusion over what is meant by a "C Score." John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Chromatic Transposition is still a bit buggy, especially when using Staff > Styles (for woodwind doubles, for instance) rather than Staff Attributes. > > Interesting. I don't recall ever experiencing them (speedy-9 issues excepted) even with staff styles. There is a fundamental problem with courtesy accis that really isn't exactly Finale's fault, and that is the case where the concert pitch requires an acci but the transposed doesn't or vice versa, and you want to force a courtesy accidental. For example, I typically work with a concert pitch score and transposed parts. Suppose I am working in the score on a clarinet part and want to force a courtesy natural on a C in the part. The problem is, there is already a flat on the B in the score. Sometimes I end up having to use the Frame Dialog to get it set right. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > One needs to watch for it when using Chromatic Transposition. > If you don't need to show the score in concert pitch, you can always revert to the technique we used before they added Chromatic Transposition. It works even with the Speedy-9 scenario you sent: 1. Open an new document with the wizard. 2. Add flute and Bb clarinet. 3. Set the Independent Key signature option on the clarinet. 4. Change the key signature for the clarinet staff to Bb. This technique has a downfall that you can't copy/paste music to or from other staves without having to transpose it after copying. But the handling of accidentals is rock-solid. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
The link you cited included an unnecessary step. All you needed to do was set Chromatic Transposition. There is no need to set Independent Key Signature. On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > > And actually the link I cited worked perfectly for me > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Okay, great! It sounds like the Favour Sharps/Flats bug is gone now, so we can scratch that one. I can't make it appear, and since you use it all the time, you would probably know. I've been using the + and - keys to flip enharmonics, rather than your method of Favour... because Favour... HAD been buggy before. The * bug I can make appear, but only after using the 9 key in the same measure. Do you have a way to show that bug that I could duplicate that DOESN'T use the 9 key? Also, could you be more specific about how to make the Staff Styles bug with Chromatic Transposition show up? What is it that's buggy about this combination? I'm trying to be rigourous with the tech support guys for my list of annoyances. Thanks again! Christopher On Sun Jan 2, at SundayJan 2 12:56 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I don't have the email and I don't recall exactly what the issues were -- but > the issues have all changed since the introduction of linked parts, so most > of what I said is probably obsolete now. The biggest issue is that I have > learned by experience never to use the 9 key to flip enharmonic, which is not > reliable. I always use my iKey shortcuts for "Favor Flats" or "Favor Sharps" > before entering the notes so that the accidentals are correct the first time. > > The other significant annoyance is that the * key to show/hide accidentals > does not always work with staves set to Chromatic Transposition, so I have to > rely on the Cautionary Accidentals plugin to create courtesy naturals -- > forcing them to appear does not always work reliably. > > Cheers, > > - DJA > - > WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > > > > On 1 Jan 2011, at 3:08 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > >> Darcy, >> >> You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic >> Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced >> it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass >> MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the >> list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know >> you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them >> all. >> >> Thanks, and have a great coming year! >> >> Christopher >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
What I asked was how to have finale display everything in the key of C, but still preserve the ability for finale to play back correctly. And actually the link I cited worked perfectly for me, so I have a transposed score and parts that when I play it back via midi it plays correctly and more importantly it can now be exported into smart music. Sent from my iSomething On Jan 2, 2011, at 12:21 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Okay I'm confused. I was under the impression that either the concert key of > Eric's piece overall was C major or else the piece as a whole had no key > signature. He said Alto Sax had 3 sharps and Bb trumpet 2, which is > consistent with C Major (or no key sig). For that case, Chromatic > Transposition is sufficient and there is no need to set any Independent > elements in any staff's attributes. In fact doing so may just make your life > harder, so Eric should by all means ignore that link he cited. > > If the key as whole has a key signature (e.g., the piano part has a key > signature), but there are transposiing instruments for which you would like > to suppress the key signature, there is a procedure that will do it > flawlesly for you, but it is not the one in the link Eric cited, and it does > not involve Chromatic Transposition. (The approach Eric cited gets close but > it is not perfect.) Eric, let me know if this is what you need. If so, it > would be easiest for me to describe the solution if you provide specifics: > what key is the piece and on which specific transposing instrument(s) do you > want to suppress key signatures? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Okay I'm confused. I was under the impression that either the concert key of Eric's piece overall was C major or else the piece as a whole had no key signature. He said Alto Sax had 3 sharps and Bb trumpet 2, which is consistent with C Major (or no key sig). For that case, Chromatic Transposition is sufficient and there is no need to set any Independent elements in any staff's attributes. In fact doing so may just make your life harder, so Eric should by all means ignore that link he cited. If the key as whole has a key signature (e.g., the piano part has a key signature), but there are transposiing instruments for which you would like to suppress the key signature, there is a procedure that will do it flawlesly for you, but it is not the one in the link Eric cited, and it does not involve Chromatic Transposition. (The approach Eric cited gets close but it is not perfect.) Eric, let me know if this is what you need. If so, it would be easiest for me to describe the solution if you provide specifics: what key is the piece and on which specific transposing instrument(s) do you want to suppress key signatures? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
{Spam} Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Hi, Robert. Would you give me a hint on the better way to handle this situation please? Thanks!! Rafael Leonardo Junchaya :rjunch...@yahoo.com http://www.myspace.com/rjunchaya +358 452791949 De: Robert Patterson Para: finale@shsu.edu Enviado: dom, enero 2, 2011 2:55:13 AM Asunto: Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece as a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic Transposition. There is a better way in that case. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > Darcy, > > You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic > Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced > it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass > MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the > list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know > you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them > all. > > Thanks, and have a great coming year! > > Christopher > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
{Spam} Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Thanks, Robert, no need to reply, I found your earlier post: I sent a similar reply a while back, but I never saw it come thru. For music without a key sig, use Chromatic Transposition. For must with a key sig. use standard Transposition as follows: 1. Set the horn staves to Independent Key Signature. 2. Set the horn staves to F Transposition. 3. Set the key signature of the Horn staves to F Major throughout, irrespective of the true key(s) of the piece. That will do it. Rafael Leonardo Junchaya :rjunch...@yahoo.com http://www.myspace.com/rjunchaya +358 452791949 De: Robert Patterson Para: finale@shsu.edu Enviado: dom, enero 2, 2011 2:55:13 AM Asunto: Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece as a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic Transposition. There is a better way in that case. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > Darcy, > > You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic > Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced > it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass > MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the > list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know > you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them > all. > > Thanks, and have a great coming year! > > Christopher > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Hi Robert, Chromatic Transposition is still a bit buggy, especially when using Staff Styles (for woodwind doubles, for instance) rather than Staff Attributes. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 1 Jan 2011, at 4:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, > provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece as > a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >> Darcy, >> >> You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic >> Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced >> it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass >> MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the >> list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know >> you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them >> all. >> >> Thanks, and have a great coming year! >> >> Christopher >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Hi Chris, I don't have the email and I don't recall exactly what the issues were -- but the issues have all changed since the introduction of linked parts, so most of what I said is probably obsolete now. The biggest issue is that I have learned by experience never to use the 9 key to flip enharmonic, which is not reliable. I always use my iKey shortcuts for "Favor Flats" or "Favor Sharps" before entering the notes so that the accidentals are correct the first time. The other significant annoyance is that the * key to show/hide accidentals does not always work with staves set to Chromatic Transposition, so I have to rely on the Cautionary Accidentals plugin to create courtesy naturals -- forcing them to appear does not always work reliably. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 1 Jan 2011, at 3:08 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > Darcy, > > You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic > Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced it. > For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass > MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the > list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know you > do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them all. > > Thanks, and have a great coming year! > > Christopher > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
True, but I believe there continue to be other issues with speedy-9 as well, unrelated to transposition, so avoiding it is good policy. And if you avoid it, then (along with other issues) you want have any problems with C.T. Right? On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > You may identify it as Speedy 9-flip bug (as do I!) but there it is, > manifesting itself when using Chromatic Transposition. It doesn't manifest > itself (in this particular way!) when the part uses normal transposition, so > I would say it is indeed a Chromatic Transposition issue. One needs to watch > for it when using Chromatic Transposition. > > Christopher > > > On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 11:21 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > > Since the introduction of Finale 2007, I *never* use the 9 key to > enharmonic > > flip. I *always* use the +/- keys for notes like Cb. I do not see this as > a > > bug with Chromatic Transposition per se, but rather with the Speedy 9 > key. > > In F07 they "fixed" a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't broken, Speedy 9 > > being one of them, and I won't touch Speedy 9 since then. > > > > What I thought you meant was an error where an accidental that should be > > there was missing or if an incorrect accidental appeared. This is pitfall > > with the "Hide Key Signature" approach that some people used in the old > > days. > > > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Christopher Smith < > > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > > > >> Here's one. > >> > >> open a new file using the Setup Wizard. Add Bb clarinet. > >> > >> Switch to Display in Concert Pitch. > >> > >> Enter in the staff quarter notes (using Speedy) Eb, Db, Cb (you will > have > >> to flip this one with the 9 key, which is what causes the problem. If > you > >> DON'T flip it, the problem does not appear.) then Bb. I use Default > >> spelling. My attached document called Test accidentals.mus shows it. > >> > >> Using the Staff Tool, change the transposition to Chromatic, and then > turn > >> off Display in Concert Pitch. > >> > >> Now go into the measure and try to force an accidental. I can get a > natural > >> on the F (concert Eb), but strangely, as I do so, a natural appears on > the C > >> as well, even though I didn't touch it yet, and ONLY WHILE THE FRAME IS > >> open. When I close the frame the natural on the C disappears, but the > >> spacing acts as if there WAS still a natural there. Going in and out of > the > >> frame causes some cautionaries to appear, then disappear when I exit. > >> > >> Now no matter what I do, I can't get the C to force appearance of a > >> natural. > >> > >> Apparently, depending on when I flip the B to Cb and what the rhythm in > the > >> measure is, some note may end up not being able to take an accidental. > The > >> procedure I described reveals the bug every time, even after a restart. > >> > >> The way around it is to enter the C as a natural, then hit the - key to > >> lower it. This means I don't hear the correct pitch, and every > accidental > >> costs me an extra keystroke. To re-pitch a note, I have to do same > thing; I > >> can't just hit the 9 key because that might cause problems. > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm checking the Cautionary Accidentals Plugin one right now, but > >> apparently they have either corrected the Respell problem or I am not > >> invoking it the way I did before. I'll get back to you (or Darcy will. > Like > >> I said, he does this more than I do, so he should be up on it more.) > >> > >> Christopher > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 10:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > >> > >>> You'll have to give me chapter and verse (provided the concert key of > the > >>> piece is C maj) because I don't think you are right. In my experience > >>> Chromatic Transposition does not have any bugs that cause required > >>> accidentals either to be omitted or incorrect. > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Smith < > >>> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >>> > No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using > Chromatic > Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 > key > >> in > Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell > notes > >> on a > chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter > >> and > verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably > >> knows > more, which is why I asked him. > > Christopher > > > On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > > Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic > Transposition, > > provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the > >> piece > as > > a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > > Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > > > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Chr
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
You may identify it as Speedy 9-flip bug (as do I!) but there it is, manifesting itself when using Chromatic Transposition. It doesn't manifest itself (in this particular way!) when the part uses normal transposition, so I would say it is indeed a Chromatic Transposition issue. One needs to watch for it when using Chromatic Transposition. Christopher On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 11:21 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Since the introduction of Finale 2007, I *never* use the 9 key to enharmonic > flip. I *always* use the +/- keys for notes like Cb. I do not see this as a > bug with Chromatic Transposition per se, but rather with the Speedy 9 key. > In F07 they "fixed" a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't broken, Speedy 9 > being one of them, and I won't touch Speedy 9 since then. > > What I thought you meant was an error where an accidental that should be > there was missing or if an incorrect accidental appeared. This is pitfall > with the "Hide Key Signature" approach that some people used in the old > days. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Christopher Smith < > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >> Here's one. >> >> open a new file using the Setup Wizard. Add Bb clarinet. >> >> Switch to Display in Concert Pitch. >> >> Enter in the staff quarter notes (using Speedy) Eb, Db, Cb (you will have >> to flip this one with the 9 key, which is what causes the problem. If you >> DON'T flip it, the problem does not appear.) then Bb. I use Default >> spelling. My attached document called Test accidentals.mus shows it. >> >> Using the Staff Tool, change the transposition to Chromatic, and then turn >> off Display in Concert Pitch. >> >> Now go into the measure and try to force an accidental. I can get a natural >> on the F (concert Eb), but strangely, as I do so, a natural appears on the C >> as well, even though I didn't touch it yet, and ONLY WHILE THE FRAME IS >> open. When I close the frame the natural on the C disappears, but the >> spacing acts as if there WAS still a natural there. Going in and out of the >> frame causes some cautionaries to appear, then disappear when I exit. >> >> Now no matter what I do, I can't get the C to force appearance of a >> natural. >> >> Apparently, depending on when I flip the B to Cb and what the rhythm in the >> measure is, some note may end up not being able to take an accidental. The >> procedure I described reveals the bug every time, even after a restart. >> >> The way around it is to enter the C as a natural, then hit the - key to >> lower it. This means I don't hear the correct pitch, and every accidental >> costs me an extra keystroke. To re-pitch a note, I have to do same thing; I >> can't just hit the 9 key because that might cause problems. >> >> >> >> I'm checking the Cautionary Accidentals Plugin one right now, but >> apparently they have either corrected the Respell problem or I am not >> invoking it the way I did before. I'll get back to you (or Darcy will. Like >> I said, he does this more than I do, so he should be up on it more.) >> >> Christopher >> >> >> >> On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 10:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: >> >>> You'll have to give me chapter and verse (provided the concert key of the >>> piece is C maj) because I don't think you are right. In my experience >>> Chromatic Transposition does not have any bugs that cause required >>> accidentals either to be omitted or incorrect. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Smith < >>> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: >>> No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using Chromatic Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 key >> in Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell notes >> on a chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter >> and verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably >> knows more, which is why I asked him. Christopher On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, > provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the >> piece as > a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >> Darcy, >> >> You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic >> Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced >> it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass >> MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the >> list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know >> you d
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Since the introduction of Finale 2007, I *never* use the 9 key to enharmonic flip. I *always* use the +/- keys for notes like Cb. I do not see this as a bug with Chromatic Transposition per se, but rather with the Speedy 9 key. In F07 they "fixed" a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't broken, Speedy 9 being one of them, and I won't touch Speedy 9 since then. What I thought you meant was an error where an accidental that should be there was missing or if an incorrect accidental appeared. This is pitfall with the "Hide Key Signature" approach that some people used in the old days. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > Here's one. > > open a new file using the Setup Wizard. Add Bb clarinet. > > Switch to Display in Concert Pitch. > > Enter in the staff quarter notes (using Speedy) Eb, Db, Cb (you will have > to flip this one with the 9 key, which is what causes the problem. If you > DON'T flip it, the problem does not appear.) then Bb. I use Default > spelling. My attached document called Test accidentals.mus shows it. > > Using the Staff Tool, change the transposition to Chromatic, and then turn > off Display in Concert Pitch. > > Now go into the measure and try to force an accidental. I can get a natural > on the F (concert Eb), but strangely, as I do so, a natural appears on the C > as well, even though I didn't touch it yet, and ONLY WHILE THE FRAME IS > open. When I close the frame the natural on the C disappears, but the > spacing acts as if there WAS still a natural there. Going in and out of the > frame causes some cautionaries to appear, then disappear when I exit. > > Now no matter what I do, I can't get the C to force appearance of a > natural. > > Apparently, depending on when I flip the B to Cb and what the rhythm in the > measure is, some note may end up not being able to take an accidental. The > procedure I described reveals the bug every time, even after a restart. > > The way around it is to enter the C as a natural, then hit the - key to > lower it. This means I don't hear the correct pitch, and every accidental > costs me an extra keystroke. To re-pitch a note, I have to do same thing; I > can't just hit the 9 key because that might cause problems. > > > > I'm checking the Cautionary Accidentals Plugin one right now, but > apparently they have either corrected the Respell problem or I am not > invoking it the way I did before. I'll get back to you (or Darcy will. Like > I said, he does this more than I do, so he should be up on it more.) > > Christopher > > > > On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 10:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > > You'll have to give me chapter and verse (provided the concert key of the > > piece is C maj) because I don't think you are right. In my experience > > Chromatic Transposition does not have any bugs that cause required > > accidentals either to be omitted or incorrect. > > > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Smith < > > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > > > >> No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using Chromatic > >> Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 key > in > >> Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell notes > on a > >> chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter > and > >> verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably > knows > >> more, which is why I asked him. > >> > >> Christopher > >> > >> > >> On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > >> > >>> Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic > >> Transposition, > >>> provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the > piece > >> as > >>> a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > >>> Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < > >>> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >>> > Darcy, > > You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using > >> Chromatic > Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have > >> misplaced > it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus > >> harass > MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to > >> the > list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I > >> know > you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must > know > >> them > all. > > Thanks, and have a great coming year! > > Christopher > >> > >> ___ > >> Finale mailing list > >> Finale@shsu.edu > >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > >> > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ > F
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Here's one. open a new file using the Setup Wizard. Add Bb clarinet. Switch to Display in Concert Pitch. Enter in the staff quarter notes (using Speedy) Eb, Db, Cb (you will have to flip this one with the 9 key, which is what causes the problem. If you DON'T flip it, the problem does not appear.) then Bb. I use Default spelling. My attached document called Test accidentals.mus shows it. Using the Staff Tool, change the transposition to Chromatic, and then turn off Display in Concert Pitch. Now go into the measure and try to force an accidental. I can get a natural on the F (concert Eb), but strangely, as I do so, a natural appears on the C as well, even though I didn't touch it yet, and ONLY WHILE THE FRAME IS open. When I close the frame the natural on the C disappears, but the spacing acts as if there WAS still a natural there. Going in and out of the frame causes some cautionaries to appear, then disappear when I exit. Now no matter what I do, I can't get the C to force appearance of a natural. Apparently, depending on when I flip the B to Cb and what the rhythm in the measure is, some note may end up not being able to take an accidental. The procedure I described reveals the bug every time, even after a restart. The way around it is to enter the C as a natural, then hit the - key to lower it. This means I don't hear the correct pitch, and every accidental costs me an extra keystroke. To re-pitch a note, I have to do same thing; I can't just hit the 9 key because that might cause problems. I'm checking the Cautionary Accidentals Plugin one right now, but apparently they have either corrected the Respell problem or I am not invoking it the way I did before. I'll get back to you (or Darcy will. Like I said, he does this more than I do, so he should be up on it more.) Christopher On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 10:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > You'll have to give me chapter and verse (provided the concert key of the > piece is C maj) because I don't think you are right. In my experience > Chromatic Transposition does not have any bugs that cause required > accidentals either to be omitted or incorrect. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Smith < > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >> No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using Chromatic >> Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 key in >> Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell notes on a >> chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter and >> verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably knows >> more, which is why I asked him. >> >> Christopher >> >> >> On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: >> >>> Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic >> Transposition, >>> provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece >> as >>> a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic >>> Transposition. There is a better way in that case. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < >>> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: >>> Darcy, You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using >> Chromatic Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have >> misplaced it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus >> harass MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to >> the list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I >> know you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know >> them all. Thanks, and have a great coming year! Christopher >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
You'll have to give me chapter and verse (provided the concert key of the piece is C maj) because I don't think you are right. In my experience Chromatic Transposition does not have any bugs that cause required accidentals either to be omitted or incorrect. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using Chromatic > Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 key in > Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell notes on a > chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter and > verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably knows > more, which is why I asked him. > > Christopher > > > On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > > > Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic > Transposition, > > provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece > as > > a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > > Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > > > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < > > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > > > >> Darcy, > >> > >> You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using > Chromatic > >> Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have > misplaced > >> it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus > harass > >> MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to > the > >> list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I > know > >> you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know > them > >> all. > >> > >> Thanks, and have a great coming year! > >> > >> Christopher > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
No, Finale doesn't handle accidentals correctly on parts using Chromatic Transposition, especially if you have flipped accidentals with the 9 key in Speedy or run the Cautionary Accidentals plugin or try to Respell notes on a chromatically-transposed part. For those three I can give you chapter and verse on how to make those bugs show their ugly faces. Darcy probably knows more, which is why I asked him. Christopher On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 7:55 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, > provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece as > a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic > Transposition. There is a better way in that case. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > >> Darcy, >> >> You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic >> Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced >> it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass >> MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the >> list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know >> you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them >> all. >> >> Thanks, and have a great coming year! >> >> Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Finale correctly handles all accidentals if you use Chromatic Transposition, provided the piece as a whole does not have a key signature. If the piece as a whole does have a key signature, you should not be using Chromatic Transposition. There is a better way in that case. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > Darcy, > > You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic > Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced > it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass > MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the > list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know > you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them > all. > > Thanks, and have a great coming year! > > Christopher > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Darcy, You sent me a summary of the issues with accidentals when using Chromatic Transposition once a while ago, and I regret to say that I have misplaced it. For me (and so that I can check if it is still the case and thus harass MakeMusic about it) could you summarise again? Go ahead and send it to the list, because everyone should know this. I found a few issues, but I know you do most of your own pieces without key signatures, so you must know them all. Thanks, and have a great coming year! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Actually, though your link is very useful if you only want SOME parts not to have key signatures, it is more complicated than you need if NO part in the score has a key signature. This is what you should do. Set the global key to C in your score (it probably already is, no sharps no flats). For a sax part, like alto sax, click the staff with the Staff Tool, hit Return to open up the Staff Attributes, and click on Transposition. You are probably set to Key Signature. Underneath that, select the Chromatic box. This makes the part transpose properly without changing the key from concert pitch. In 2010 up, it also transposes the chords correctly, but in previous versions it doesn't (you have to use Utilities...Change... to do that.) Done. Repeat for other transposing staves. Now, there are a few caveats. Darcy can probably quote exact things to watch out for, but sometimes there are issues with accidentals not appearing correctly (like a concert E nat might not always get its sharp when alto sax needs it to be C#, sometimes related to flipping enharmonics with the 9 key in Speedy) but if you just check it over, it should be fine. Christopher BTW, I came across a book of John Coltrane patterns for saxophone by a fellow with the same name as you. Is that you? It was very good! If it is, congratulations! On Sat Jan 1, at SaturdayJan 1 4:23 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > > Nevermind, I found how to do it here > http://www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips/FHornNoKeySig.pdf > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
It helps by doing exactly what you want. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 1 Jan 2011, at 1:21 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > > Chromatic Transposition? How is that going to help? > So, if I have a jazz band score, that has something like 3 sharps in the > Altos, and 2 in the trumpets, but that is not really what key everything is > in, and I just want the accidentals next to the notes but I don't want a key > signature AND I want Finale able to play it back correctly via GPO or Midi > or whatever...how is Chromatic Transposition to help? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
That's what Chromatic Transposition is for. Did you try it? On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > > Chromatic Transposition? How is that going to help? > So, if I have a jazz band score, that has something like 3 sharps in the > Altos, and 2 in the trumpets, but that is not really what key everything > is > in, and I just want the accidentals next to the notes but I don't want a > key > signature AND I want Finale able to play it back correctly via GPO or > Midi > or whatever...how is Chromatic Transposition to help? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
{Spam} Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Is there a simple way to keep a score/parts transposed but have the key signature be nothing? One simple way is to uncheck "Key signature" in the list of "items to display" in the staff attribute dialog box, but this may be an option that must be chosen when one starts work on a chart, and may not be as convenient to apply after work on the score is significantly in progress. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Staff Attributes -> Transposition -> Chromatic. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 1 Jan 2011, at 12:51 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > So I've been asked to make some SmartMusic versions of some jazz band > arrangements I did. However, I did them without a key signature, so when I > play them back it sounds something like Schoenberg drunk meets Hindemith and > collaborate on doing a remake of Sound Of Music in the style of a drunken > Stravinsky who O.D.ed on too much Mahler..I mean, it grooves but it is > OUT THERE. > > Is there a simple way to keep a score/parts transposed but have the key > signature be nothing? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Nevermind, I found how to do it here http://www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips/FHornNoKeySig.pdf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Chromatic Transposition? How is that going to help? So, if I have a jazz band score, that has something like 3 sharps in the Altos, and 2 in the trumpets, but that is not really what key everything is in, and I just want the accidentals next to the notes but I don't want a key signature AND I want Finale able to play it back correctly via GPO or Midi or whatever...how is Chromatic Transposition to help? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
Chromatic Transposition. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > So I've been asked to make some SmartMusic versions of some jazz band > arrangements I did. However, I did them without a key signature, so when I > play them back it sounds something like Schoenberg drunk meets Hindemith and > collaborate on doing a remake of Sound Of Music in the style of a drunken > Stravinsky who O.D.ed on too much Mahler..I mean, it grooves but it is > OUT THERE. > > Is there a simple way to keep a score/parts transposed but have the key > signature be nothing? > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] No key signature yet keep playback ability
So I've been asked to make some SmartMusic versions of some jazz band arrangements I did. However, I did them without a key signature, so when I play them back it sounds something like Schoenberg drunk meets Hindemith and collaborate on doing a remake of Sound Of Music in the style of a drunken Stravinsky who O.D.ed on too much Mahler..I mean, it grooves but it is OUT THERE. Is there a simple way to keep a score/parts transposed but have the key signature be nothing? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
On 19.08.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote: Your tuchus must have a low pain threshold. I never use the Setup Wizard, and am frankly surprised that any professional would do otherwise. Maybe I'm just a control freak. Personally I think you are missing a lot by avoiding the setup wizard, although I would never use it in GPO mode. I have modified the instruments.txt and pagesize.txt files to my liking and the setup wizard now works great. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
On 19.08.2006 Darcy James Argue wrote: Lots of "professionals," including Johannes, use it. Yes, but explicitly not in GPO mode, sorry. I find that this is one of the biggest steps back from the instrument.txt setup. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Christopher Smith wrote: I DO use the SW, and am frankly surprised at those who never use it. Recognizing ymmv, the advantage of the Setup Wizard is small when the score is only a few staves. For large numbers staves of staves I already have pre-fab templates with the transpositions, staff groupings, etc. the way I want them. I suspect part of my lack of usage stems from having learned to work without it for so long. (I.e., before it existed.) I tend not to learn new things until I have to, unless they are directly features I have wished for. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
On 19 Aug 2006, at 1:13 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Aug 18, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Of course, doing this individually for every single staff in an orchestra score is an incredible pain in the tuchus, but since Setup Wizard won't let you choose "chromatic transposition" instead of "key signature transposition" before you create the score, there's no way around it without forgoing the setup wizard altogether. Your tuchus must have a low pain threshold. I never use the Setup Wizard, and am frankly surprised that any professional would do otherwise. Maybe I'm just a control freak. Using the Setup Wizard saves an enormous amount of time when it comes to configuring your score for GPO playback. Lots of "professionals," including Johannes, use it. The score it builds is based on your own customized default file. Obviously, it will still require some additional tweaking, but it's considerably faster than adding staves manually. Setting up the transpositions, chromatic or not, for a 40-staff orchestral work should take about 5 minutes, tops. That's my point! In Sibelius, this operation takes 5 seconds, tops. If you've ever had a client go back and forth about whether he wanted his piece to use a key signature or not, you'll understand why this needs to be a one-click operation. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
On Aug 19, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Aug 18, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Of course, doing this individually for every single staff in an orchestra score is an incredible pain in the tuchus, but since Setup Wizard won't let you choose "chromatic transposition" instead of "key signature transposition" before you create the score, there's no way around it without forgoing the setup wizard altogether. Your tuchus must have a low pain threshold. I never use the Setup Wizard, and am frankly surprised that any professional would do otherwise. Maybe I'm just a control freak. It's no harder to revise a Setup Wizard decision than to start a score from zero, and is in fact considerably easier. I'm a professional, and I use the Setup Wizard all the time. Granted, I have it start from my default file that I have extensively tweaked, but I DO use the SW, and am frankly surprised at those who never use it. Setting up the transpositions, chromatic or not, for a 40-staff orchestral work should take about 5 minutes, tops. Yes, I would have characterised the task as a mild PITT rather than an incredible one, too. But maybe Darcy's workflow is so streamlined now that he is more bugged by these kinds of kludges. But the Setup Wizard is still a powerful tool, even for professionals. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
On Aug 18, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Of course, doing this individually for every single staff in an orchestra score is an incredible pain in the tuchus, but since Setup Wizard won't let you choose "chromatic transposition" instead of "key signature transposition" before you create the score, there's no way around it without forgoing the setup wizard altogether. Your tuchus must have a low pain threshold. I never use the Setup Wizard, and am frankly surprised that any professional would do otherwise. Maybe I'm just a control freak. Setting up the transpositions, chromatic or not, for a 40-staff orchestral work should take about 5 minutes, tops. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Owain Sutton wrote: You never know, they might take the bull by the horns and sort out the whole 'nonstandard key signature' embarassment... (Hands up who's seen me on this topic before ;) ) Owain PS Am I right in thinking Sibelius 4 has a fully-functional implementation of quarter-tones? I.e. one that people can actually useI'm still trying to figure out playback in Finale. Sib4 has a plug-in which will go through and insert hidden midi commands to get proper playback of quartertones. I don't work with them so I can't vouch for how good it is, but the manual for Sib4 does mention that the plug-in comes with a Help file which indicates what will happen, how to use it, and explains its limitations, so apparently there are some limitations. Running the plug-in just now I find that unfortunately I can't simply copy and paste the contents of the help screen, but essentially it says that any combination of the 4 quarter-tone accidentals in a single part will be handled correctly, but mixtures of the quartertone and semitone accidentals won't be handled correctly. It also states that any mixture of quarter-tone accidentals and semi-tone accidentals in separate parts which share the same channel will not be handled correctly. So the answer is a qualified "mostly." Essentially it just inserts pitch-bend instructions as we have to do manually in Finale. And it does allow us to edit the amount of pitch-bend we want applied. What it doesn't say is that successful playback would depend on the programming of the module being used for playback. I would bet that the Kontakt player which is their touted wonderful playback mechanism (yes, there is a Sibelius-GPO version for sale which I bet will be incorporated into the next release, although that is just conjecture on my part) is programmed so that full pitch-bend will give a half-step alteration in pitch. But if the module (or the patch being played) is programmed for full pitch-bend to give an octave leap, then these midi messages which the plug-in embeds will end up giving half-octave shifts instead of quarter-tone shifts. So that makes the qualified "mostly" even more qualified. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] No Key Signature
At 11:40 PM 8/18/06 +0100, you wrote: >You never know, they might take the bull by the horns and sort out the >whole 'nonstandard key signature' embarassment... >(Hands up who's seen me on this topic before ;) ) O. O. O! Dennis (contributing nothing) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] No Key Signature
You never know, they might take the bull by the horns and sort out the whole 'nonstandard key signature' embarassment... (Hands up who's seen me on this topic before ;) ) Owain PS Am I right in thinking Sibelius 4 has a fully-functional implementation of quarter-tones? I.e. one that people can actually useI'm still trying to figure out playback in Finale. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue > Sent: 18 August 2006 22:11 > To: finale@shsu.edu > Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature > > > Hi Bruce, > > Go here: > > http://support.makemusic.com/ > > And submit a feature request to make creating (or switching to) an > "Open Key/Atonal" score a one-click operation. I think it might help > if you point out that Sibelius already does what you want in > a single > step. > > Cheers, > > - Darcy > - > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://secretsociety.typepad.com > Brooklyn, NY > > > > On 18 Aug 2006, at 4:22 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: > > > Count me in! How do I let MM know? (and thanks) > > - Original Message ----- From: "Darcy James Argue" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Hi Bruce, Go here: http://support.makemusic.com/ And submit a feature request to make creating (or switching to) an "Open Key/Atonal" score a one-click operation. I think it might help if you point out that Sibelius already does what you want in a single step. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 18 Aug 2006, at 4:22 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: Count me in! How do I let MM know? (and thanks) - Original Message - From: "Darcy James Argue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Count me in! How do I let MM know? (and thanks) - Original Message - From: "Darcy James Argue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature Of course, doing this individually for every single staff in an orchestra score is an incredible pain in the tuchus, but since Setup Wizard won't let you choose "chromatic transposition" instead of "key signature transposition" before you create the score, there's no way around it without forgoing the setup wizard altogether. Would it be indelicate to point out that the Distinguished Competition has a one-click solution for this -- a key signature called "Open Key/Atonal"? I've encouraged MM to steal this feature before, but perhaps others can join me on this? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 18 Aug 2006, at 4:08 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: Thanks, Leigh! - Original Message - From: "Leigh Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Finale List" Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature In Staff Attributes, specify the instrument transpositions for each staff, then select "Display At Concert Pitch" to see all staves transposed to concert. To print a score showing the transpositions, uncheck "Display At Concert Pitch" and Bob's your uncle! **Leigh On Fri, Aug 18, 2006, Bruce E. Clausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow a no-signature score? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Of course, doing this individually for every single staff in an orchestra score is an incredible pain in the tuchus, but since Setup Wizard won't let you choose "chromatic transposition" instead of "key signature transposition" before you create the score, there's no way around it without forgoing the setup wizard altogether. Would it be indelicate to point out that the Distinguished Competition has a one-click solution for this -- a key signature called "Open Key/Atonal"? I've encouraged MM to steal this feature before, but perhaps others can join me on this? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 18 Aug 2006, at 4:08 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: Thanks, Leigh! - Original Message - From: "Leigh Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Finale List" Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature In Staff Attributes, specify the instrument transpositions for each staff, then select "Display At Concert Pitch" to see all staves transposed to concert. To print a score showing the transpositions, uncheck "Display At Concert Pitch" and Bob's your uncle! **Leigh On Fri, Aug 18, 2006, Bruce E. Clausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow a no-signature score? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Thanks, Leigh! - Original Message - From: "Leigh Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Finale List" Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] No Key Signature In Staff Attributes, specify the instrument transpositions for each staff, then select "Display At Concert Pitch" to see all staves transposed to concert. To print a score showing the transpositions, uncheck "Display At Concert Pitch" and Bob's your uncle! **Leigh On Fri, Aug 18, 2006, Bruce E. Clausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow a no-signature score? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
Bruce E. Clausen wrote: I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow a no-signature score? Use Chromatic Transposition instead of the Key Signature Transposition. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] No Key Signature
In Staff Attributes, specify the instrument transpositions for each staff, then select "Display At Concert Pitch" to see all staves transposed to concert. To print a score showing the transpositions, uncheck "Display At Concert Pitch" and Bob's your uncle! **Leigh On Fri, Aug 18, 2006, Bruce E. Clausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've >consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is >to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass >Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a >workaround that will allow a no-signature score? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] No Key Signature
I'm starting to engrave a piece that uses no key signatures. I've consulted the Finale manual and it seems as though the only solution is to enter a transposing part in concert pitch and then transpose via Mass Mover. I can't believe this is the best way. Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow a no-signature score? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
