Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
Kim Patrick Clow wrote: Good day: Hi all: I am working on some 18th century manuscripts, many times I will see poco F or poco piano or poco forte. The default text setting in some music engraving applications is for italic (e.g. Sibelius); but aren't italics traditionally seen as editorial additions, wouldn't having poco in italics be wrong if the wording is actually present in the manuscript source(s)? Thank you kindly, Kim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale If you carefully examine the dynamic markings, they're in italic already, so using italic for any modifying words looks more uniform in my opinion. It also is what I'm used to seeing in older engraved music. Italics in music doesn't indicate editorial content -- most of the time the use of [ and ] around the material is what I'm used to seeing to indicate editorial addition. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
The general rule, set forth for example in the chapter on the NBA in Bärenreiter's Editionsrichtlinien (latest edition: Bärenreiter 2000), is that _all_ additions by the editor should be clearly designated as such. This means _cursive_ for added text, dotted slurs [in my humble opinion too fussy!) and so on. They go on to write that all text taken over from the source, including dynamic signs like f and p etc.[and your poco forte] should be in normal, non-cursive print. (p.63f.) Of course, if you want to put such markings in cursive, as Finale and Sibelius seem to want to do, that you can put your additions in [brackets], which is not particularly beautiful but has the advantage of being intuitively clear to the user. Cheers! Eric On 11.03.2010, at 01:46, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: Good day: Hi all: I am working on some 18th century manuscripts, many times I will see poco F or poco piano or poco forte. The default text setting in some music engraving applications is for italic (e.g. Sibelius); but aren't italics traditionally seen as editorial additions, wouldn't having poco in italics be wrong if the wording is actually present in the manuscript source(s)? Thank you kindly, Kim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
Eric Fiedler wrote: The general rule, set forth for example in the chapter on the NBA in Bärenreiter's Editionsrichtlinien (latest edition: Bärenreiter 2000), is that _all_ additions by the editor should be clearly designated as such. This means _cursive_ for added text, dotted slurs [in my humble opinion too fussy!) and so on. They go on to write that all text taken over from the source, including dynamic signs like f and p etc.[and your poco forte] should be in normal, non-cursive print. (p.63f.) Of course, if you want to put such markings in cursive, as Finale and Sibelius seem to want to do, that you can put your additions in [brackets], which is not particularly beautiful but has the advantage of being intuitively clear to the user. Cheers! Eric Do you really mean cursive as in handwritten in flowing script? Wow! I've never seen Finale nor Sibelius try to use a handwriting font -- could you please more be specific about what you mean by cursive? -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
In German, Russian and many other languages, italic fonts are known as cursive (German: Kursiv, Russian: Курсив (Kursiv)). Eric does not mean a handwriting font. FYI, italic fonts are historically based on Italian cursive scripts. Andrew On 11 March 2010 21:53, dhbailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.comwrote: Eric Fiedler wrote: The general rule, set forth for example in the chapter on the NBA in Bärenreiter's Editionsrichtlinien (latest edition: Bärenreiter 2000), is that _all_ additions by the editor should be clearly designated as such. This means _cursive_ for added text, dotted slurs [in my humble opinion too fussy!) and so on. They go on to write that all text taken over from the source, including dynamic signs like f and p etc.[and your poco forte] should be in normal, non-cursive print. (p.63f.) Of course, if you want to put such markings in cursive, as Finale and Sibelius seem to want to do, that you can put your additions in [brackets], which is not particularly beautiful but has the advantage of being intuitively clear to the user. Cheers! Eric Do you really mean cursive as in handwritten in flowing script? Wow! I've never seen Finale nor Sibelius try to use a handwriting font -- could you please more be specific about what you mean by cursive? -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Andrew Moschou Secretary Adelaide University Choral Society ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
Of course I meant to write italic (=german kursiv). The problem is, see, sometimes when you're writing/thinking fast, the part of the brain responsible for keeping languages separate from each other tends to short out, and you get mixtures like this without you even being aware of them ... until they're caught by your friends in cyberspace! ;-) Cheers! Eric On 11.03.2010, at 12:23, dhbailey wrote: Do you really mean cursive as in handwritten in flowing script? Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
At 10:53 AM +0100 3/11/10, Eric Fiedler wrote: The general rule, set forth for example in the chapter on the NBA in Bärenreiter's Editionsrichtlinien (latest edition: Bärenreiter 2000), is that _all_ additions by the editor should be clearly designated as such. This means _cursive_ for added text, dotted slurs [in my humble opinion too fussy!) and so on. They go on to write that all text taken over from the source, including dynamic signs like f and p etc.[and your poco forte] should be in normal, non-cursive print. (p.63f.) Of course, if you want to put such markings in cursive, as Finale and Sibelius seem to want to do, that you can put your additions in [brackets], which is not particularly beautiful but has the advantage of being intuitively clear to the user. Thanks, Eric. Valuable to know. But it's interesting that the word cursive, which in the U.S. means hand-written and connected rather than hand-printed as individual letters, apparently means italic either in German or in translation. At least that's how I would interpret your quotation. Quite honestly I've seen so many variations on this theme that I have to question whether there actually is any accepted standard at all, except perhaps for individual publishers' house styles. And while most publishers draw a distinction between scholarly editions (in which the Bärenreiter rule certainly should apply) and performing editions in which the editor's work is never distinguished, it is very frustrating to be stuck with a performing edition and not to have the important information that the editor has hidden, since I prefer to make my own decisions in many cases, and especially in the case of musica ficta. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
Good day: Hi all: I am working on some 18th century manuscripts, many times I will see poco F or poco piano or poco forte. The default text setting in some music engraving applications is for italic (e.g. Sibelius); but aren't italics traditionally seen as editorial additions, wouldn't having poco in italics be wrong if the wording is actually present in the manuscript source(s)? Thank you kindly, Kim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
On 10 Mar 2010 at 19:46, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I am working on some 18th century manuscripts, many times I will see poco F or poco piano or poco forte. The default text setting in some music engraving applications is for italic (e.g. Sibelius); but aren't italics traditionally seen as editorial additions, wouldn't having poco in italics be wrong if the wording is actually present in the manuscript source(s)? I find distinguishing editorial dynamics by italic vs. non-italic to really be insufficient. The NMA did it that way and I always found it difficult to keep it straight because of the traditional dynamic markings, which are oblique (if not italic), so that when I see the italic I expect it to be the *real* dynamic markings. I think you can use whatever you like. If an engraving program prevents you from doing it, then that's a flaw in it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text expressions : 'poco' italic or not?
Kim wrote: I am working on some 18th century manuscripts, many times I will see poco F or poco piano or poco forte. The default text setting in some music engraving applications is for italic (e.g. Sibelius); but aren't italics traditionally seen as editorial additions, wouldn't having poco in italics be wrong if the wording is actually present in the manuscript source(s)? While it is true that the use of italics is one of the devices used in critical and scholarly editions to mark elements added by an editor which are not present in the original, it is also fairly common, particularly in keyboard and choral music, for written out (allargando) and abbreviated (rit., dim., and rall,) text indications, to be italicized. Examples of this are to be found in /Novello's Colleciton of Anthems by Modern Composer, Vol 4/, which can be viewed in full on Google Books. (cf. http://books.google.com/books?id=QFhXQFlwUmsC). ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
