Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
At 3:26 PM -0400 9/16/11, Raymond Horton wrote: >On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 1:38 PM, John Howell wrote: > >> Bagpipes? Well, there's a place for them and >> their music, preferably not too close by! >> >It's a classic: >Q. Why do bagpipers walk when they play? >A. They're trying to get away from the noise. On the other hand, when I was in the Air Force Band I was always VERY impressed with the pipe corps. They were awfully good together, and the drummers played the cleanest rudiments I've ever heard: you could drive a truck through the space between their rebounds!! (They also rehearsed right under our barracks windows, so it's a good thing they WERE so good!) John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music School of Performing Arts & Cinema College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
Agree with John here ... I just finished transcribing a Mendelssohn orchestral overture for Wind Ensemble, and could not have done it sans help from the Picc., esp. when dealing with the higher violin parts. I am a Picc. fan when it comes to that situation .. Dean On Sep 16, 2011, at 10:38 AM, John Howell wrote: > At 5:18 PM +0100 9/16/11, Steve Parker wrote: >> >> Gotta disagree about the piccolo... there are >> not many instruments I can never imagine writing >> for (unless paid of course) >> but piccolo and bagpipes share the lead! ;-) > > Interesting statement, Steve. I can't imagine > not having piccolo available for concert band > music, and it's been an orchestral instrument for > about 250 years (although Beethoven didn't use it > in a symphony until his 5th). The earlier > piccolo concertos--including the several by > Vivaldi--were actually for sopranino recorder > rather than small transverse flute. > > Of course like any strong spice, it needs to be > used sparingly and in exactly the right places, > but in those places it's the only thing that can > do the job. If you happen to remember Billy > May's "Sorta Dixie" album, whoever played the > piccolo double on it was a superb player, and the > jazz piccolo solo(s) was played really elegantly. > > Don't judge the instrument by high school > marching bands. Our Community Band has two > excellent piccolists, one a retired professional > and the other an excellent semi-professional, and > they both play in tune and with beautiful tone. > > Bagpipes? Well, there's a place for them and > their music, preferably not too close by! > > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > School of Performing Arts & Cinema > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." > (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale The perfect drive..a diminishing sphere of white impaling the azure heavens in a graceful ellipticheight and distance vying for supremacy..compatriot's jowls lax, eyes huge, their raucous paeans thinly veiling jealousy..one stroke justifying a capricious investment in the titanium industry. Dean M. Estabrook http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
As I have noted before, the tragedy of the bagpipe player and why he walks lies in the fact that when you stop blowing a bagpipe, the noise continues - the poor devils do not realise that they are themselves the founder of their own malady. Best wishes, Lawrence On 16 September 2011 20:26, Raymond Horton wrote: > Q. Why do bagpipers walk when they play? > A. They're trying to get away from the noise. > -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 1:38 PM, John Howell wrote: > Bagpipes? Well, there's a place for them and > their music, preferably not too close by! > It's a classic: Q. Why do bagpipers walk when they play? A. They're trying to get away from the noise. Raymond Horton (who has written for piccolo and for bagpipes, but not at the same time) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
Of course as soon as I wrote I thought of examples in contradiction.. It does do a marvellous job in some concert band music. I've heard some of Darcy's stuff and maybe his new stuff could persuade me otherwise.. Steve P. On 16 Sep 2011, at 18:38, John Howell wrote: > At 5:18 PM +0100 9/16/11, Steve Parker wrote: >> >> Gotta disagree about the piccolo... there are >> not many instruments I can never imagine writing >> for (unless paid of course) >> but piccolo and bagpipes share the lead! ;-) > > Interesting statement, Steve. I can't imagine > not having piccolo available for concert band > music, and it's been an orchestral instrument for > about 250 years (although Beethoven didn't use it > in a symphony until his 5th). The earlier > piccolo concertos--including the several by > Vivaldi--were actually for sopranino recorder > rather than small transverse flute. > > Of course like any strong spice, it needs to be > used sparingly and in exactly the right places, > but in those places it's the only thing that can > do the job. If you happen to remember Billy > May's "Sorta Dixie" album, whoever played the > piccolo double on it was a superb player, and the > jazz piccolo solo(s) was played really elegantly. > > Don't judge the instrument by high school > marching bands. Our Community Band has two > excellent piccolists, one a retired professional > and the other an excellent semi-professional, and > they both play in tune and with beautiful tone. > > Bagpipes? Well, there's a place for them and > their music, preferably not too close by! > > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > School of Performing Arts & Cinema > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." > (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
At 5:18 PM +0100 9/16/11, Steve Parker wrote: > >Gotta disagree about the piccolo... there are >not many instruments I can never imagine writing >for (unless paid of course) >but piccolo and bagpipes share the lead! ;-) Interesting statement, Steve. I can't imagine not having piccolo available for concert band music, and it's been an orchestral instrument for about 250 years (although Beethoven didn't use it in a symphony until his 5th). The earlier piccolo concertos--including the several by Vivaldi--were actually for sopranino recorder rather than small transverse flute. Of course like any strong spice, it needs to be used sparingly and in exactly the right places, but in those places it's the only thing that can do the job. If you happen to remember Billy May's "Sorta Dixie" album, whoever played the piccolo double on it was a superb player, and the jazz piccolo solo(s) was played really elegantly. Don't judge the instrument by high school marching bands. Our Community Band has two excellent piccolists, one a retired professional and the other an excellent semi-professional, and they both play in tune and with beautiful tone. Bagpipes? Well, there's a place for them and their music, preferably not too close by! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music School of Performing Arts & Cinema College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön." (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
Hi Chuck, This is actually an excellent point -- my own take on this would be that bigband flute parts within the staff often sound better on alto flute, whereas flute parts above the staff often sound better on piccolo (especially when doubling lead tpt, either at pitch or 8va). Good piccolo doublers are still a bit rare in jazz, though. I'm lucky that Erica von Kleist really enjoys the piccolo and plays quite a lot of it, including bringing it to jam sessions, etc. She plays great flute too, but hates soloing on it, and I can see why -- it's much easier to get a satisfying jazz sound on piccolo. I didn't write any piccolo parts for her on the last record because I hadn't really started exploring that possibility, but my current writing has piccolo all over the place. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 16 Sep 2011, at 10:37 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: > My old friend and mentor, the late John Garvey, used to say that much of > what is written for flute in jazz bands would sound better on the piccolo, > and he had a good point. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
I'll place my order.. There is a ton of insight into compositional practice that is widely applicable (to any genre) and elegantly written. Maybe it could be converted to an iPad app? I have no idea how these things work.. Gotta disagree about the piccolo... there are not many instruments I can never imagine writing for (unless paid of course) but piccolo and bagpipes share the lead! ;-) Steve P. On 16 Sep 2011, at 15:37, Chuck Israels wrote: > Dear Steve, > > Thanks for the plug. Gary will soon remove all but some teaser chapters and > examples from his website - because the book has just been released by Hal > Leonard (with the scrolling playback examples on a CD). My editor at HL was > responsive and cooperative (and helpful in the usual ways for which one would > need an editor), so I think the book turned out well. There is no > comprehensive study of orchestration possibilities in the book, and I regret > ignoring the possibilities of the piccolo, since we are discussing octave > transpositions. My old friend and mentor, the late John Garvey, used to say > that much of what is written for flute in jazz bands would sound better on > the piccolo, and he had a good point. In any case, I am glad this work - > encouraged, even insisted upon, by Gary Garritan, as well as invested in by > him (he paid for all the work to make the playback examples sound reasonably > musical and for all the Flash files for the scrolling score examples), is > finally out. The book seems like a perfect fit as an iPad app/eBook, except > that the scrolling scores are done in Adobe Flash, and Apple does not accept > Flash files. That's a disappointment! > > Chuck > > > On Sep 16, 2011, at 4:04 AM, Steve Parker wrote: > >> There is a great little book, 'Orchestral Technique' by Gordon Jacob too. >> >> Rimsky Korsakov is available online: >> http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=34 >> >> and a Jazz arranging course by (our own!) wonderful Chuck Israels: >> http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=41 >> >> Steve P. >> >> On 16 Sep 2011, at 11:35, David H. Bailey wrote: >> >>> On 9/16/2011 12:27 AM, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote: ...although the books by Piston and Rimsky-Korsakov'll do in a pinch! >>> >>> Actually these days I find that for notational information as well as >>> range information and playing techniques, Andrew Stiller's Handbook of >>> Instrumentation to be much better than any books on orchestration, which >>> seem to discuss which instruments work well together and which don't >>> rather than discussing the technical details such as whether an >>> instrument is notated with an octave displacement or not. Stiller's >>> book is my go-to reference when I need specific information about an >>> instrument. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David H. Bailey >>> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com >>> ___ >>> Finale mailing list >>> Finale@shsu.edu >>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Chuck Israels > 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 > Portland, OR 97209-316 > > land line: (971) 255-1167 > cell phone: (360) 201-3434 > > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] orchestration, clefs, etc. (was Clefs for Tenors in Choir)
Dear Steve, Thanks for the plug. Gary will soon remove all but some teaser chapters and examples from his website - because the book has just been released by Hal Leonard (with the scrolling playback examples on a CD). My editor at HL was responsive and cooperative (and helpful in the usual ways for which one would need an editor), so I think the book turned out well. There is no comprehensive study of orchestration possibilities in the book, and I regret ignoring the possibilities of the piccolo, since we are discussing octave transpositions. My old friend and mentor, the late John Garvey, used to say that much of what is written for flute in jazz bands would sound better on the piccolo, and he had a good point. In any case, I am glad this work - encouraged, even insisted upon, by Gary Garritan, as well as invested in by him (he paid for all the work to make the playback examples sound reasonably musical and for all the Flash files for the scrolling score examples), is finally out. The book seems like a perfect fit as an iPad app/eBook, except that the scrolling scores are done in Adobe Flash, and Apple does not accept Flash files. That's a disappointment! Chuck On Sep 16, 2011, at 4:04 AM, Steve Parker wrote: > There is a great little book, 'Orchestral Technique' by Gordon Jacob too. > > Rimsky Korsakov is available online: > http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=34 > > and a Jazz arranging course by (our own!) wonderful Chuck Israels: > http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=41 > > Steve P. > > On 16 Sep 2011, at 11:35, David H. Bailey wrote: > >> On 9/16/2011 12:27 AM, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote: >>> ...although the books by Piston and Rimsky-Korsakov'll do in a pinch! >>> >> >> Actually these days I find that for notational information as well as >> range information and playing techniques, Andrew Stiller's Handbook of >> Instrumentation to be much better than any books on orchestration, which >> seem to discuss which instruments work well together and which don't >> rather than discussing the technical details such as whether an >> instrument is notated with an octave displacement or not. Stiller's >> book is my go-to reference when I need specific information about an >> instrument. >> >> >> -- >> David H. Bailey >> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209-316 land line: (971) 255-1167 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
