Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Craig Parmerlee]

Yes, the chime patch seems to be very good on the MalletKat, regardless 
of the sound engine.  Chimes have such a distinctive harmonic series 
that it is relatively ease to get that to sound authentic.  Same for oboe.

If the Kat is a model that has the Kurzweil sound engine, there will be 
lots of instruments that sound pretty authentic.

But of course, there is not just one timpani sound or one vibraphone 
sound, so there will always be room for debate.  But I find this 
instrument indispensable in concerts that require lots of different 
percussion instruments, so only for 16 bars in the entire concert.  Most 
people will want the visual effect of a real bass drum, but the Kat is 
perfect for chimes, marimba, bells, vibes as an alternative to lugging a 
truckload of stuff that will barely be used.  Percussionists don't like 
to use the Kat for timpani because it is so different from actually 
playing the timp.  And to make that sound right, you will probably need 
something with at least 10" speakers.  But I have used the Kat for the 
occasional timpani roll.



On 1/13/2014 1:20 PM, David H. Bailey wrote:
> My son happened to be in town for the weekend so he came and played
> trumpet with the band (he's been a member since 5th grade) and he said
> he looked up in amazement at the chimes because he knew we didn't have
> any chimes.  So, yes, it did sound just like the instrument it replaced.
>


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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Christopher Smith]

I played in a ensemble with a guy who was quite adept at the EWI  
(electronic wind instrument) and even was able to emulate a bassoon  
quite well. His trick was to put the (small) amplifier on it's BACK  
facing up behind his chair. The imaging on a chamber music stage was  
pretty impressive (as was his expression on that rather difficult  
instrument with all those different sounds possible!)

Christopher


On 13-Jan-14, at 13-Jan-14  1:17 PM, David Froom wrote:

> My addition to that is also to turn the speaker cabinet to face  
> backwards. That keeps the sound more or less coming from where the  
> instrument is, but gets some room reflection, avoiding the "too  
> present" sound that comes directly from a speaker, and it gives the  
> sound a chance to blend with the others according to the room  
> acoustic.  After all, most instruments provide us with reflected  
> sound (horns go backwards, strings go up and sometimes back  
> (typically where violas sit) or sideways (typically where cellos  
> sit) pianos go up and hit the lid, but also send a lot of sound  
> directly into the floor. Most trombone and trumpet players point to  
> the side or down and perhaps into the stand. I think most acoustic  
> instrument sounds will bounce off multiple places before we hear it  
> (stage back and top and floor, hall side and back walls). In the  
> best halls, in fact, when you close your eyes, it is difficult to  
> know where a sound is coming from.
>
> DF
>
>
>> actually, that is not so much an instrument problems as a classic
>> tech / acoustic mistake -- i see (hear) it a lot, also when solo
>> instruments need to be miked for whatever reason.  usually the
>> thinking is to put the speakers on the sides of the stage (or worse,
>> around the audience) so as not to block the view of the musicians.
>> the most effective way i have done it (and sometimes see it done) is
>> to have the 1 or 2 speakers below / behind the instrument playing it
>> (but not blocked).
>>
>> this way, the SOUND of the instrument seems to come from where the
>> performer is actually seated.  also, this approach requires less
>> amplification (of acoustic instruments) to support the sound and
>> therefore colours the natural acoustic sound so little that it can
>> even be unnoticeable.  but this requires a techie who cares.
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[David H. Bailey]

Our percussionist used a small Behringer amplifier which sat right under 
the malletkat, so the sound emanated from where the instrument was in 
the overall mix of the community band and it was *not* wired into the 
house sound.

My son happened to be in town for the weekend so he came and played 
trumpet with the band (he's been a member since 5th grade) and he said 
he looked up in amazement at the chimes because he knew we didn't have 
any chimes.  So, yes, it did sound just like the instrument it replaced.

People who use electronic instruments need to realize that they need to 
be played through a small but adequate amplifier which sits where the 
player is, just as the sound would emanate from that spot if a 
non-electronic instrument were being played there.  Electronic 
instruments should not be played through an auditorium's P.A. system 
unless the entire group is amplified and everybody's sound is coming 
through the P.A. system, which should never (in my opinion) be done with 
an orchestra or a concert band.

David H. Bailey



On 1/13/2014 12:26 PM, Raymond Horton wrote:
> Did it sound like the instruments it replaced?  I recall hearing my
> daughter's youth orchestra, with a keyboard synth replacing harp, in which
> the latter sound seemed to be uncomfortably coming from all over the room,
> while the real instruments were heard from where they were being played.
>
> Raymond Horton
> Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
> Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
> Composer, Arranger
> VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 10:17 AM, David H. Bailey <
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote:
>
>> Funny you should ask that -- I played one this past weekend, sharing it
>> with another percussionist.  The man who owned it had programmed the
>> bottom 2 octaves to be chimes (written treble clef) and had programmed
>> the top two octaves to be orchestra bells in the same octave.
>>
>> So it can be notated however you wish -- it is a four octave range but
>> you can have multiple zones, each set in its own octave and with its own
>> sounds.
>>
>> David H. Bailey
>>
>> On 1/13/2014 6:46 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote:
>>>
>>> anyone know how this instrument is supposed to be notated?  the
>>> performer is using the 4-octave model and has assigned sounds that
>>> need to be triggered mainly in the centre and avoiding the extreme
>>> keys, so it fits well on treble clef (G3-Bb7) without having to
>>> resort to clef changes or 8va markings.
>>>
>>> note this is NOT being used as an electronic marimba, the performer
>>> triggers sound files that are often not "pitched" and has mapped out
>>> the sounds across the instrument range for ease of playing, so it
>>> doesn't really have to reflect the range of the marimba in this
>>> piece; it is "just" a keyboard here.
>>>
>>> http://www.alternatemode.com/articles/aug4.shtml
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Finale mailing list
>>> Finale@shsu.edu
>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>>
> ___
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>
>


-- 
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dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com

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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[David Froom]

My addition to that is also to turn the speaker cabinet to face backwards. That 
keeps the sound more or less coming from where the instrument is, but gets some 
room reflection, avoiding the "too present" sound that comes directly from a 
speaker, and it gives the sound a chance to blend with the others according to 
the room acoustic.  After all, most instruments provide us with reflected sound 
(horns go backwards, strings go up and sometimes back (typically where violas 
sit) or sideways (typically where cellos sit) pianos go up and hit the lid, but 
also send a lot of sound directly into the floor. Most trombone and trumpet 
players point to the side or down and perhaps into the stand. I think most 
acoustic instrument sounds will bounce off multiple places before we hear it 
(stage back and top and floor, hall side and back walls). In the best halls, in 
fact, when you close your eyes, it is difficult to know where a sound is coming 
from.

DF


> actually, that is not so much an instrument problems as a classic 
> tech / acoustic mistake -- i see (hear) it a lot, also when solo 
> instruments need to be miked for whatever reason.  usually the 
> thinking is to put the speakers on the sides of the stage (or worse, 
> around the audience) so as not to block the view of the musicians. 
> the most effective way i have done it (and sometimes see it done) is 
> to have the 1 or 2 speakers below / behind the instrument playing it 
> (but not blocked).
> 
> this way, the SOUND of the instrument seems to come from where the 
> performer is actually seated.  also, this approach requires less 
> amplification (of acoustic instruments) to support the sound and 
> therefore colours the natural acoustic sound so little that it can 
> even be unnoticeable.  but this requires a techie who cares.



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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[SN jef chippewa]

thanks all, helpful comments.

each section in the piece uses a new "library" of sounds which are 
mapped again across the instrument, there is no jumping back and 
forth between sound banks, so pretty straight-forward.


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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[SN jef chippewa]

actually, that is not so much an instrument problems as a classic 
tech / acoustic mistake -- i see (hear) it a lot, also when solo 
instruments need to be miked for whatever reason.  usually the 
thinking is to put the speakers on the sides of the stage (or worse, 
around the audience) so as not to block the view of the musicians. 
the most effective way i have done it (and sometimes see it done) is 
to have the 1 or 2 speakers below / behind the instrument playing it 
(but not blocked).

this way, the SOUND of the instrument seems to come from where the 
performer is actually seated.  also, this approach requires less 
amplification (of acoustic instruments) to support the sound and 
therefore colours the natural acoustic sound so little that it can 
even be unnoticeable.  but this requires a techie who cares.

>Did it sound like the instruments it replaced?  I recall hearing my 
>daughter's youth orchestra, with a keyboard synth replacing harp, in 
>which the latter sound seemed to be uncomfortably coming from all 
>over the room, while the real instruments were heard from where they 
>were being played.


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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Mon, January 13, 2014 11:18 am, Raymond Horton wrote:
> From the audio only I had assumed that much of the fast stuff was sequenced.

Both were played quickly. I just posted a response to Craig with the score and
studio recording.

> Although I feel compelled to report (not sure why) that my napping daughter
> (a musical genius but with conservative tastes) just screamed at my from
> the second floor to "turn it down".  I think that, perhaps, Dennis will
> chuckle at this.

But of course!

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Mon, January 13, 2014 11:44 am, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
> But that isn't what is happening in this video.  I have no idea how to
> notate that.
>
> (The recording probably didn't do justice to the composition.  It
> sounded pretty random to me -- like wind chimes or a sample-and-hold
> circuit.)

Here is the full score that I posted earlier. Michael said it was very
difficult because, although it was rhythmically precise, the overlapping of
his sound and the playback tracks made it nightmarish. Also, here is a studio
recording.





Dennis






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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Raymond Horton]

Did it sound like the instruments it replaced?  I recall hearing my
daughter's youth orchestra, with a keyboard synth replacing harp, in which
the latter sound seemed to be uncomfortably coming from all over the room,
while the real instruments were heard from where they were being played.

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 10:17 AM, David H. Bailey <
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote:

> Funny you should ask that -- I played one this past weekend, sharing it
> with another percussionist.  The man who owned it had programmed the
> bottom 2 octaves to be chimes (written treble clef) and had programmed
> the top two octaves to be orchestra bells in the same octave.
>
> So it can be notated however you wish -- it is a four octave range but
> you can have multiple zones, each set in its own octave and with its own
> sounds.
>
> David H. Bailey
>
> On 1/13/2014 6:46 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how this instrument is supposed to be notated?  the
> > performer is using the 4-octave model and has assigned sounds that
> > need to be triggered mainly in the centre and avoiding the extreme
> > keys, so it fits well on treble clef (G3-Bb7) without having to
> > resort to clef changes or 8va markings.
> >
> > note this is NOT being used as an electronic marimba, the performer
> > triggers sound files that are often not "pitched" and has mapped out
> > the sounds across the instrument range for ease of playing, so it
> > doesn't really have to reflect the range of the marimba in this
> > piece; it is "just" a keyboard here.
> >
> > http://www.alternatemode.com/articles/aug4.shtml
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> David H. Bailey
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>
> ___
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>
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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Craig Parmerlee]

Regarding notation, if the controller is segmented for several different 
tonal voices with the idea that the player would alternate from one 
voice to another, then I would put each voice on its own treble clef 
staff, and set the octave to put the notes mostly on the staff for ease 
of reading.  The performer can shift the octave as desired in the 
MalletKat settings.

But that isn't what is happening in this video.  I have no idea how to 
notate that.

(The recording probably didn't do justice to the composition.  It 
sounded pretty random to me -- like wind chimes or a sample-and-hold 
circuit.)



On 1/13/2014 11:08 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> On Mon, January 13, 2014 10:50 am, Raymond Horton wrote:
>> Dennis, is there a video of the performance of the MalletKat piece?
> I've uploaded what I have. It's here:
>   
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>


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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Christopher Smith]

Heh heh! It's a sign of the generations that OUR parents yelled at US to turn 
it down, and now the pendulum has swung the other way and our kids yell at US 
to turn it down! My daughter (also a musical genius) dislikes what I listen to 
intensely.

Christopher

On Mon Jan 13, at MondayJan 13 11:18 AM, Raymond Horton wrote:

> Although I feel compelled to report (not sure why) that my napping daughter
> (a musical genius but with conservative tastes) just screamed at my from
> the second floor to "turn it down".  I think that, perhaps, Dennis will
> chuckle at this.
> 
> Raymond Horton

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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Raymond Horton]

Thanks!  Fascinating!

>From the audio only I had assumed that much of the fast stuff was sequenced.
I'm glad the MK is still a musical instrument, not just a push button
machine.

Although I feel compelled to report (not sure why) that my napping daughter
(a musical genius but with conservative tastes) just screamed at my from
the second floor to "turn it down".  I think that, perhaps, Dennis will
chuckle at this.

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <
bath...@maltedmedia.com> wrote:

> On Mon, January 13, 2014 10:50 am, Raymond Horton wrote:
> > Dennis, is there a video of the performance of the MalletKat piece?
>
> I've uploaded what I have. It's here:
>  
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Mon, January 13, 2014 10:50 am, Raymond Horton wrote:
> Dennis, is there a video of the performance of the MalletKat piece?

I've uploaded what I have. It's here:
 




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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Mon, January 13, 2014 10:50 am, Raymond Horton wrote:
> Dennis, is there a video of the performance of the MalletKat piece?

I have a 1-minute excerpt of the opening from a concert in Cologne in 2006.
Michael was going to send the whole video, but had a stroke and died after
several years in a coma. Shall I put what I have on YouTube?

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Raymond Horton]

Dennis, is there a video of the performance of the MalletKat piece?

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <
bath...@maltedmedia.com> wrote:

> On Mon, January 13, 2014 6:46 am, SN jef chippewa wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how this instrument is supposed to be notated?  the
> > performer is using the 4-octave model and has assigned sounds that
> > need to be triggered mainly in the centre and avoiding the extreme
> > keys, so it fits well on treble clef (G3-Bb7) without having to
> > resort to clef changes or 8va markings.
> >
> > note this is NOT being used as an electronic marimba, the performer
> > triggers sound files that are often not "pitched" and has mapped out
> > the sounds across the instrument range for ease of playing, so it
> > doesn't really have to reflect the range of the marimba in this
> > piece; it is "just" a keyboard here.
> >
> > http://www.alternatemode.com/articles/aug4.shtml
>
> My piece for MalletKAT for Michael Manion was notated as a standard
> marimba,
> using it to trigger events and samples, with the events notated in text
> below.
> I left it up to Michael to program the changes the way he preferred them.
> Here's the score and performance:
>
> 
>
> Sadly, Michael died some time ago, and all his MAX patches and hardware
> settings went with him.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[David H. Bailey]

Funny you should ask that -- I played one this past weekend, sharing it 
with another percussionist.  The man who owned it had programmed the 
bottom 2 octaves to be chimes (written treble clef) and had programmed 
the top two octaves to be orchestra bells in the same octave.

So it can be notated however you wish -- it is a four octave range but 
you can have multiple zones, each set in its own octave and with its own 
sounds.

David H. Bailey

On 1/13/2014 6:46 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote:
>
> anyone know how this instrument is supposed to be notated?  the
> performer is using the 4-octave model and has assigned sounds that
> need to be triggered mainly in the centre and avoiding the extreme
> keys, so it fits well on treble clef (G3-Bb7) without having to
> resort to clef changes or 8va markings.
>
> note this is NOT being used as an electronic marimba, the performer
> triggers sound files that are often not "pitched" and has mapped out
> the sounds across the instrument range for ease of playing, so it
> doesn't really have to reflect the range of the marimba in this
> piece; it is "just" a keyboard here.
>
> http://www.alternatemode.com/articles/aug4.shtml
>
>
> ___
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> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>
>


-- 
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dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com

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Re: [Finale] [OT] "range" of malletkat?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Mon, January 13, 2014 6:46 am, SN jef chippewa wrote:
>
> anyone know how this instrument is supposed to be notated?  the
> performer is using the 4-octave model and has assigned sounds that
> need to be triggered mainly in the centre and avoiding the extreme
> keys, so it fits well on treble clef (G3-Bb7) without having to
> resort to clef changes or 8va markings.
>
> note this is NOT being used as an electronic marimba, the performer
> triggers sound files that are often not "pitched" and has mapped out
> the sounds across the instrument range for ease of playing, so it
> doesn't really have to reflect the range of the marimba in this
> piece; it is "just" a keyboard here.
>
> http://www.alternatemode.com/articles/aug4.shtml

My piece for MalletKAT for Michael Manion was notated as a standard marimba,
using it to trigger events and samples, with the events notated in text below.
I left it up to Michael to program the changes the way he preferred them.
Here's the score and performance:



Sadly, Michael died some time ago, and all his MAX patches and hardware
settings went with him.

Dennis






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