Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote: Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand Hauptbanhof better too. That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact also Kopfbahnhöfe, and that would indeed translate into head station. (But it means a Station which is a dead end, trains only leaving in one direction). Very similar to the (mainly American?) English 'railhead', then :) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On 17.02.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote: I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg called the first one Hauptstimme (head voice). A more accurate translation would be Main voice. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand Hauptbanhof better too. Chuck On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:03 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 17.02.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote: I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg called the first one Hauptstimme (head voice). A more accurate translation would be Main voice. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote: Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand Hauptbanhof better too. That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact also Kopfbahnhöfe, and that would indeed translate into head station. (But it means a Station which is a dead end, trains only leaving in one direction). (I certainly didn't mean to be Mr wiseguy, should this have been the impression!) ;-) Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:57 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote: Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand Hauptbanhof better too. That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact also Kopfbahnhöfe, and that would indeed translate into head station. (But it means a Station which is a dead end, trains only leaving in one direction). (I certainly didn't mean to be Mr wiseguy, should this have been the impression!) Not at all, Johannes, I'm happy for the information, and now this provides a little more. Chuck ;-) Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
Chuck Israels wrote: On Feb 17, 2006, at 7:57 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 17.02.2006 Chuck Israels wrote: Thanks Johannes, for improving my meager understanding of German. Now I understand Hauptbanhof better too. That's a very interesting one: a lot of Hauptbahnhöfe are in fact also Kopfbahnhöfe, and that would indeed translate into head station. (But it means a Station which is a dead end, trains only leaving in one direction). (I certainly didn't mean to be Mr wiseguy, should this have been the impression!) Not at all, Johannes, I'm happy for the information, and now this provides a little more. Many of us seem to revel in learning new things, even when their direct application to music is not as clear as it might otherwise be. And besides, music takes a lot of *train*ing, which makes this applicable! :) cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:19 PM, Lee Actor wrote: dynamics do not denote some absolute level of sound volume on a decibel scale, but are always contextual and relative. Substitute usually or traditionally for always, and I'll agree with you. In the famous passage at the end of the exposition in the first mvmt. of the Pathetique, Tchaikovsky writes a gradated series of dynamics, ending with pp in the low bassoon. Now whatever you think of Tchaikovsky's music, he had a profound understanding of orchestration, color, and balance, and knew exactly what he wanted and how to achieve it. Obviously what is called for here is an ever-decreasing volume and intensity of sound, ending as quietly as possible, with a very veiled tone color. Granted, it is difficult to play extremely softly in the lower register of the bassoon (right, Andrew?), but Tchaikovsky was writing for the finest professional orchestras of his day, An important aspect of T's orchestration, IMO, is that he deliberately makes the players display struggle and effort. When, as often, he writes very soft passages for the lowest notes of the double reeds, he wants the audience to hear the player sweating to get the volume down. At the other end of the dynamic scale, he routinely and deliberately evokes a very ugly sound from the trumpets by having them play loudly in octaves. This kind of thing is not limited to Tchaikovsky. In Schoenberg's _Gurrelieder_ there is a sustained ppp top B in the piccolo at the beginning of the melodrama, before the speaker begins. When Simon Rattle conducted the piece w. the Philadelphia Orchestra a few years back, he decided to have the piccolo player use a specially-made little pipe built just for that one note. The resulting ethereal whistle was very pretty--but Schoenberg didn't want that. He wanted the audience to hear the sound of Nature trying desperately to stay still in the hours just before dawn. Will a piccolo sound desperate trying to play that note ppp? You bet. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:19 PM, Lee Actor wrote: dynamics do not denote some absolute level of sound volume on a decibel scale, but are always contextual and relative. Substitute usually or traditionally for always, and I'll agree with you. In the famous passage at the end of the exposition in the first mvmt. of the Pathetique, Tchaikovsky writes a gradated series of dynamics, ending with pp in the low bassoon. Now whatever you think of Tchaikovsky's music, he had a profound understanding of orchestration, color, and balance, and knew exactly what he wanted and how to achieve it. Obviously what is called for here is an ever-decreasing volume and intensity of sound, ending as quietly as possible, with a very veiled tone color. Granted, it is difficult to play extremely softly in the lower register of the bassoon (right, Andrew?), but Tchaikovsky was writing for the finest professional orchestras of his day, An important aspect of T's orchestration, IMO, is that he deliberately makes the players display struggle and effort. When, as often, he writes very soft passages for the lowest notes of the double reeds, he wants the audience to hear the player sweating to get the volume down. At the other end of the dynamic scale, he routinely and deliberately evokes a very ugly sound from the trumpets by having them play loudly in octaves. This kind of thing is not limited to Tchaikovsky. In Schoenberg's _Gurrelieder_ there is a sustained ppp top B in the piccolo at the beginning of the melodrama, before the speaker begins. When Simon Rattle conducted the piece w. the Philadelphia Orchestra a few years back, he decided to have the piccolo player use a specially-made little pipe built just for that one note. The resulting ethereal whistle was very pretty--but Schoenberg didn't want that. He wanted the audience to hear the sound of Nature trying desperately to stay still in the hours just before dawn. Will a piccolo sound desperate trying to play that note ppp? You bet. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ Good points, I largely agree. This is very similar to the sense of straining that is evident when string players play up high on a string (esp. low strings for violins and high strings for violas, celli, and basses). Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
Hey Ken, Thanks - my translation makes a little sense, but Shoenberg's name is better. Sorry for my pigeon German! Chuck On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Ken Moore wrote: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I like Hochstimme and Nebenstimme symbols for this. They seem quite useful to me. Bill Duncan's (Oh boy, I seem like a shill for him) new Articulation Font has these symbols. I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg called the first one Hauptstimme (head voice). -- Ken Moore Musician and engineer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamics [was: 8th = Q]
On Feb 16, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Ken Moore wrote: Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I like Hochstimme and Nebenstimme symbols for this. They seem quite useful to me. Bill Duncan's (Oh boy, I seem like a shill for him) new Articulation Font has these symbols. I like those symbols too. According to Grove Concise, Schoenberg called the first one Hauptstimme (head voice). Me, I prefer the traditional in sopra and sotto voce. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
