Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[Haroldo Mauro]

Yes, thanks!
Harold

On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:52, timothy price  wrote:

> If you make a tempo change of as little as one beat per minute, you can 
> control the measure exactly by linking the tempo to each note. Very precise. 
> Am pretty sure you can do as David suggests and make the tempo making 
> invisible.
> 
> tim
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
> 
>> It shouldn’t sound as a tempo change at all and it is not intended for the 
>> musicians/conductor to follow any indication, therefore I don’t want any 
>> markings in the score. It’s for Finale "playback purposes only”. Thanks 
>> anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:20, timothy price  wrote:
>> 
>>> Have asked that question myself and realized that having the tempo change 
>>> visible in the score is helpful,  if you hope to hear it performed that way.
>>> Conductors take liberties, as they might, but at least they would have a 
>>> clear indication of YOUR intent first.  Like with jazz, it is best to know 
>>> how to play
>>> the original before you try to interpret a tune.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> tim
> 
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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[Robert Patterson]

Just playing devil's advocate, I can think of some reasons.

1. The U.I. sucked. It was basically unusable. Personally, I only used the
feature by means of JW Tempo. And now with Human Playback I don't even use
it that way. Meanwhile, they would have had to either spend resources
updating a crappy U.I. for 64-bit (a non-trivial task on Mac) or completely
redesign the U.I. for 64-bit.

2. But their usage reports told them hardly anyone uses the feature, which
called into question the value of spending any resources on it. (Resources
which are extremely limited.) They apparently opted for pissing off the
small number of users who use it. (Or at least the apparently small number
of users who use it.)

3. The reason it still works is that it would cost a lot of time to remove
and debug the removal of the feature from the engine. So they left it in.
Over time it may quit working for other reasons, but I doubt they'll ever
intentionally remove it. They've just stopped supporting it.

I would really like to know if the JW Tempo features were ever subsumed
into one of his later plugins. I never discovered it if so. A 64-bit
version of JW Tempo would solve this problem.



On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:11 AM, David H. Bailey <
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote:

> On 11/4/2016 9:29 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> > You can open your file in Fin 2014, enter the tempo tool changes, and
> then
> > reopen it in Fin25. Fin25 will still play back the tempo tool. The only
> > level that was removed appears to have been the U.I.
> >
> [snip]
>
> Which seems really stupid to me -- what other piece of software requires
> the user to keep a previous version installed simply to use one tool
> which actually works in the new version but for which the developers
> decided to eliminate the user interface?
>
> If the functionality is there and if the user interface worked just fine
> in previous versions and they haven't done a "from the ground up total
> rewrite of all the code" upgrade, there's no reason not continue to
> allow the user access through the same user interface which has worked
> for many versions.
>
> And they're probably scratching their heads wondering why so few people
> are upgrading to Finale25 . . .
>
>
> --
> David H. Bailey
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[David H. Bailey]

On 11/4/2016 9:29 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> You can open your file in Fin 2014, enter the tempo tool changes, and then
> reopen it in Fin25. Fin25 will still play back the tempo tool. The only
> level that was removed appears to have been the U.I.
>
[snip]

Which seems really stupid to me -- what other piece of software requires 
the user to keep a previous version installed simply to use one tool 
which actually works in the new version but for which the developers 
decided to eliminate the user interface?

If the functionality is there and if the user interface worked just fine 
in previous versions and they haven't done a "from the ground up total 
rewrite of all the code" upgrade, there's no reason not continue to 
allow the user access through the same user interface which has worked 
for many versions.

And they're probably scratching their heads wondering why so few people 
are upgrading to Finale25 . . .


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[Robert Patterson]

You can open your file in Fin 2014, enter the tempo tool changes, and then
reopen it in Fin25. Fin25 will still play back the tempo tool. The only
level that was removed appears to have been the U.I.

Years ago, Jari Williamsson offered a plugin to do easy Tempo Tool changes
called JW Tempo. It still works in Fin2014, but I can't find a recent
download link for it. Nor can I find a newer plugin that incorporates the
same functions. It seems like a 64-bit version of it might have a lot of
utility. Does anyone know if one of his more recent plugins incorporates JW
Tempo?


On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Haroldo Mauro  wrote:

> Finale Mac (Marvericks) 2014.d
> I often use the Tempo Tool to slow down just one part of a measure, when I
> feel that keeping a straight pulse sounds unnatural. For example, when the
> whole orchestra stops for a rest on a last beat and resumes playing on the
> following measure. It might sound rushed sometimes, even though the pulse
> is kept. Then, say the metronome is 88, I change it to 75 just for that
> last beat with the Tempo Tool, and back to 88 on he next beat. It makes me
> happy and leaves no markings in the score. Now how would I do that one beat
> slow-down without the Tempo Tool, in Finale 25? Thanks!
>
> Harold
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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[timothy price]

If you make a tempo change of as little as one beat per minute, you can control 
the measure exactly by linking the tempo to each note. Very precise. Am pretty 
sure you can do as David suggests and make the tempo making invisible.

tim



On Nov 4, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:

> It shouldn’t sound as a tempo change at all and it is not intended for the 
> musicians/conductor to follow any indication, therefore I don’t want any 
> markings in the score. It’s for Finale "playback purposes only”. Thanks 
> anyway.
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:20, timothy price  wrote:
> 
>> Have asked that question myself and realized that having the tempo change 
>> visible in the score is helpful,  if you hope to hear it performed that way.
>> Conductors take liberties, as they might, but at least they would have a 
>> clear indication of YOUR intent first.  Like with jazz, it is best to know 
>> how to play
>> the original before you try to interpret a tune.
>> 
>> 
>> tim

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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[Haroldo Mauro]

On Nov 4, 2016, at 7:38, David H. Bailey  
wrote:

> On 11/4/2016 5:21 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
>> Finale Mac (Marvericks) 2014.d I often use the Tempo Tool to slow
>> down just one part of a measure, when I feel that keeping a straight
>> pulse sounds unnatural. For example, when the whole orchestra stops
>> for a rest on a last beat and resumes playing on the following
>> measure. It might sound rushed sometimes, even though the pulse is
>> kept. Then, say the metronome is 88, I change it to 75 just for that
>> last beat with the Tempo Tool, and back to 88 on he next beat. It
>> makes me happy and leaves no markings in the score. Now how would I
>> do that one beat slow-down without the Tempo Tool, in Finale 25?
> 
> Good question -- my guess (I don't have Finale25) is that you could 
> define two non-printing expressions which affect tempo, place one on 
> that last beat you want the extra time on, defined for 75 (in your 
> example), then place one on the next beat to return the tempo to 88 (in 
> your example).
> 
> A bit more kludgy than using the tempo tool, but still possible.
> 
> It does leave me scratching my head as to why they would remove a tool 
> which seemed to be working just fine.  Especially since there have been 
> no reports here from Finale25 users telling us that long-standing bugs 
> have been fixed.  I guess it's easier to take things out than to 
> actually fix things which are broken.
> 
> Oh well.
> -- 
> David H. Bailey
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> ___


Thanks. I too, don’t have Finale 25. I just read about this issue with the 
Tempo Tool and was fustrated with its doing away with. Another option, I read 
about, is to open the score with Finale 2014, use the tempo tool, save, then go 
back to Finale 25! Nuisance!!
Harold

Harold


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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[Haroldo Mauro]

It shouldn’t sound as a tempo change at all and it is not intended for the 
musicians/conductor to follow any indication, therefore I don’t want any 
markings in the score. It’s for Finale "playback purposes only”. Thanks anyway.


On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:20, timothy price  wrote:

> Have asked that question myself and realized that having the tempo change 
> visible in the score is helpful,  if you hope to hear it performed that way.
> Conductors take liberties, as they might, but at least they would have a 
> clear indication of YOUR intent first.  Like with jazz, it is best to know 
> how to play
> the original before you try to interpret a tune.
> 
> 
> tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2016, at 5:21 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
> 
>> Finale Mac (Marvericks) 2014.d 
>> I often use the Tempo Tool to slow down just one part of a measure, when I 
>> feel that keeping a straight pulse sounds unnatural. For example, when the 
>> whole orchestra stops for a rest on a last beat and resumes playing on the 
>> following measure. It might sound rushed sometimes, even though the pulse is 
>> kept. Then, say the metronome is 88, I change it to 75 just for that last 
>> beat with the Tempo Tool, and back to 88 on he next beat. It makes me happy 
>> and leaves no markings in the score. Now how would I do that one beat 
>> slow-down without the Tempo Tool, in Finale 25? Thanks!
>> 
>> Harold
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[timothy price]

Have asked that question myself and realized that having the tempo change 
visible in the score is helpful,  if you hope to hear it performed that way.
Conductors take liberties, as they might, but at least they would have a clear 
indication of YOUR intent first.  Like with jazz, it is best to know how to play
the original before you try to interpret a tune.


tim




On Nov 4, 2016, at 5:21 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:

> Finale Mac (Marvericks) 2014.d 
> I often use the Tempo Tool to slow down just one part of a measure, when I 
> feel that keeping a straight pulse sounds unnatural. For example, when the 
> whole orchestra stops for a rest on a last beat and resumes playing on the 
> following measure. It might sound rushed sometimes, even though the pulse is 
> kept. Then, say the metronome is 88, I change it to 75 just for that last 
> beat with the Tempo Tool, and back to 88 on he next beat. It makes me happy 
> and leaves no markings in the score. Now how would I do that one beat 
> slow-down without the Tempo Tool, in Finale 25? Thanks!
> 
> Harold
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


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Re: [Finale] For playback purposes only

[David H. Bailey]

On 11/4/2016 5:21 AM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
> Finale Mac (Marvericks) 2014.d I often use the Tempo Tool to slow
> down just one part of a measure, when I feel that keeping a straight
> pulse sounds unnatural. For example, when the whole orchestra stops
> for a rest on a last beat and resumes playing on the following
> measure. It might sound rushed sometimes, even though the pulse is
> kept. Then, say the metronome is 88, I change it to 75 just for that
> last beat with the Tempo Tool, and back to 88 on he next beat. It
> makes me happy and leaves no markings in the score. Now how would I
> do that one beat slow-down without the Tempo Tool, in Finale 25?

Good question -- my guess (I don't have Finale25) is that you could 
define two non-printing expressions which affect tempo, place one on 
that last beat you want the extra time on, defined for 75 (in your 
example), then place one on the next beat to return the tempo to 88 (in 
your example).

A bit more kludgy than using the tempo tool, but still possible.

It does leave me scratching my head as to why they would remove a tool 
which seemed to be working just fine.  Especially since there have been 
no reports here from Finale25 users telling us that long-standing bugs 
have been fixed.  I guess it's easier to take things out than to 
actually fix things which are broken.

Oh well.



-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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