Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
At 9:14 PM -0400 8/30/08, Christopher Smith wrote: Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? I haven't written for harp, but my guess is that you should not write them as grace notes because the program will treat them as grace notes, which they aren't! Why not use appropriate tuplets with full sized noteheads just like real notes? Is there a harpist on this list, as there happens to be on the SibeliusList? If not, I could ask over there. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
On Aug 30, 2008, at 11:24 PM, John Howell wrote: At 9:14 PM -0400 8/30/08, Christopher Smith wrote: Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? I haven't written for harp, but my guess is that you should not write them as grace notes because the program will treat them as grace notes, which they aren't! Why not use appropriate tuplets with full sized noteheads just like real notes? Is there a harpist on this list, as there happens to be on the SibeliusList? If not, I could ask over there. John Yeah, they are pretty much grace notes, in that they have indeterminate rhythm. They are the first six notes of a three-octave gliss, followed by a gliss marking to the top note two more octaves away. The notation is pretty standard; I just haven't had to do it until now, preferring the text pedalling indication suggested by arabushk (sorry, he didn't indicate his name! I suppose I should know it by now, but I never look at the email addresses). Why should the program, treating them as grace notes, move them BEFORE the note they come after? Why don't they keep their positioning? Thanks for offering to ask for me, but I don't need notation help (the composer is pretty clear) I needed Finale help. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
On Sun, August 31, 2008 8:23 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Why should the program, treating them as grace notes, move them BEFORE the note they come after? Why don't they keep their positioning? Can you describe your entry method a little? When I create grace notes after a note, they stay there. Is this what you mean? Or am I missing something in your question that's harp-specific? http://maltedmedia.com/images/finale/grace-after.jpg Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
Wel.Yup - here I am!As a harpist of some 35 years' experience, the standard notation of a gliss is seven (notated) pitched grace notes. Alternatively, a pedal diagram or pedal pitch listing (i.e. D#,B, C#/Eb, F, G#, Ab) with starting note-(gliss symbol)-ending note can be used but: anything other than grace notes might be confused for note duration rather than a gliss. That said, Finale's way of dealing with a gracenote gliss can be an annoying problemfor exactly the reason Christopher noted. Best, Les Les Marsden (209) 966-6988 New Cell: (559) 708-6027 7145 Snyder Creek Road Mariposa, CA 95338-9641 Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html - Original Message - From: John Howell To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes At 9:14 PM -0400 8/30/08, Christopher Smith wrote: Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? I haven't written for harp, but my guess is that you should not write them as grace notes because the program will treat them as grace notes, which they aren't! Why not use appropriate tuplets with full sized noteheads just like real notes? Is there a harpist on this list, as there happens to be on the SibeliusList? If not, I could ask over there. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
Hmm, yours look fine, but mine all crowd over to the left. I don't know why. C. On Aug 31, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Sun, August 31, 2008 8:23 am, Christopher Smith wrote: Why should the program, treating them as grace notes, move them BEFORE the note they come after? Why don't they keep their positioning? Can you describe your entry method a little? When I create grace notes after a note, they stay there. Is this what you mean? Or am I missing something in your question that's harp-specific? http://maltedmedia.com/images/finale/grace-after.jpg Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
At 8:23 AM -0400 8/31/08, Christopher Smith wrote: Thanks for offering to ask for me, but I don't need notation help (the composer is pretty clear) I needed Finale help. I understand that, but I just checked Clint Roemer (pp. 145-6), and in the pre-computer days he doesn't seem to have used grace notes for a harp gliss. The next-to-last example on 146 could be interpreted as either full size notes or cue-sized notes, but what I was trying to say was that grace notes (which have no duration in a measure) are completely different from cue-size notes (which do have duration. But of course the customer is always right! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
At 10:22 AM -0700 8/31/08, Greg Hamilton wrote: Hi Christopher, The standard way of indicating a harp glissando and notating the pitches is as seven 32nd notes and then extend the beams over a little. From there use a gliss. line to the final pitch of the gliss. and put a slur over it. An excellent reference on harp writing is a book called Harp Scoring by Stanley Chaloupka. And according to Clint Roemer the purpose of the 7 notes is to indicate the chromatic alterations, although he gives alternative ways to do the same thing that look, to this non-harpist, easier to read and respond to. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
I usually write out the notes of the scale with the attendant accidentals, then just indicate the highs and lows of the glissandi. ajr Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
Do you mean as text? That's how I usually do it (in pedal order, DCB / EFGA), but I am supposed to indicate the pitches in grace notes this time. I just went ahead and made it a tuplet with no number or bracket, and changed the note size manually, hiding the extra rests. But it seems an awful lot of work for such a common notation. C. On Aug 30, 2008, at 9:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I usually write out the notes of the scale with the attendant accidentals, then just indicate the highs and lows of the glissandi. ajr Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Harp gliss grace notes
Yes, text does it in this case. ajr Do you mean as text? That's how I usually do it (in pedal order, DCB / EFGA), but I am supposed to indicate the pitches in grace notes this time. I just went ahead and made it a tuplet with no number or bracket, and changed the note size manually, hiding the extra rests. But it seems an awful lot of work for such a common notation. C. On Aug 30, 2008, at 9:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I usually write out the notes of the scale with the attendant accidentals, then just indicate the highs and lows of the glissandi. ajr Hey, collective wisdom, When you are writing a harp gliss of the type that starts with say, a quarter note, and is followed by six more grace notes indicating the exact pitches of the scale, how do you get them to line up properly? Mine keep moving left, before the barline and three or four of them before the quarter note. I suppose I could enter them as a sextuplet then manually resize them, but that seems a lot of work for something that is so normal. How do you guys do it? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
