Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Rich Caldwell wrote: > > Sounds like a plugin could accomplish this task very easily… > The task is complicated (for a plugin) by staff and system scaling options. However, there is a plugin that gets close in TGTools. It allows you to contract or expand the existing spacing by a fixed percent. Not what you want, but you can get the result fairly efficiently. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
At 11:13 AM -0400 4/14/10, Rich Caldwell wrote: The feature isn't obvious though. You must optimize the systems (not letting it remove staves), then when you're in the staff tool, drag enclose the bottom handle on the staves and do the Respace Staves function. Unfortunately, Finale won't do exactly what you want. You have to fiddle with the numbers in the dialog until you get the resulting system height you want. It would be nice if there were a simple "distribute staves evenly" command that would keep the top and bottom staves where you put them, but the only option available right now is to keep the top staff position where it is. Good Lord, Composer's Mosaic could do this 'way back in about '92!!! And it even kept related staves grouped closer together. Made page layout easy and instantaneous, even as unsophisticated as the program was at that point. I miss it. (But I don't miss some of the limitations!) John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On Apr 12, 2010, at 1:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: >> Respace Staves goes back at least to v3.0 (early 90s). > > It was in the first version of Finale I ever used, 2.01, back in > 1991. My guess is that it's a near-original feature, and I'm glad to > hear it's been enhanced. > > What I'd like, though, is the ability to set the top and bottom staff > and then have the ones in between spaced evenly automatically. Is > that available in current versions of Finale? Yes, that's what I meant to ask; when the ability to respace staves on a system-by-system basis was introduced. It appears that hasn't been around forever. The feature isn't obvious though. You must optimize the systems (not letting it remove staves), then when you're in the staff tool, drag enclose the bottom handle on the staves and do the Respace Staves function. Unfortunately, Finale won't do exactly what you want. You have to fiddle with the numbers in the dialog until you get the resulting system height you want. It would be nice if there were a simple "distribute staves evenly" command that would keep the top and bottom staves where you put them, but the only option available right now is to keep the top staff position where it is. Sounds like a plugin could accomplish this task very easily… Rich ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing of staves
With nothing quoted, I take it you are responding to the question about how to get the staves in a system more closely spaces for only one system. Unfortunately, the Space Systems Evenly command does not change positioning of the staves inside the system, only the systems themselves. Christopher On Wed Apr 14, at WednesdayApr 14 7:11 AM, Christer Wallstrom wrote: What about space systems evenly (pagelayout) Works fine for me. Easy to use Christer W Minister of Music ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
David W. Fenton wrote: After posting I also thought of one of my annoyances with Finale, one that we are all probably so accustomed to that we don't even notice it any more, and that's the insistence on using negative numbers for distances from the top of a page. This is, if I'm remembering correctly, because PostScript calculates distances from the bottom of the page, I don't know enough about Postscript internals to offer an opinion as to whether this is why Finale uses negative numbers in some values. I would note, though, that all settings which indicate displacement distance, not only page and system margins, but also displacements of notational elements like group brackets, articulations, and expressions, all use the same convention: the distance an item is moved to the right of, or up from a reference point or line is a positive number, the distance that same item is moved down from, or the the left of a reference point or line is indicated by a negative value. On the whole, this seems to me to be a fairly intuitive convention for someone who has been involved with mathematics, physics, or computer science and I suspect makes for a cleaner user interface, than the alternative, which seems to me would be about like the "shift lyrics" dialog, in that one would set a distance, and then would have to specify up or right, and down or left, whereas by using positive and negative numbers to specify direction, one needs to specify the direction only in half of the cases, since the default (positive numbers, in this case) is adequate for the balance. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On 12 Apr 2010 at 14:18, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 12 Apr 2010, at 1:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > What I'd like, though, is the ability to set the top and bottom > > staff and then have the ones in between spaced evenly automatically. > > Is that available in current versions of Finale? > > No -- that's one area where Sibelius has a significant advantage. Well, I haven't played with the Sibelius demo for a while, but last time I did, I found it's options for sizing of systems and layout to be really restricted. To change one factor in the layout involved changing the whole style (or however they worded it). It seemed tied to terminology that was really old-fashioned, i.e., rastrals and such (tied to hand copying/engraving, instead of being computer-oriented) and not helpful. After posting I also thought of one of my annoyances with Finale, one that we are all probably so accustomed to that we don't even notice it any more, and that's the insistence on using negative numbers for distances from the top of a page. This is, if I'm remembering correctly, because PostScript calculates distances from the bottom of the page, so moving something down from the top is going in the opposite direction. This is one of those cases of what Joel Spolsky calls the "law of leaky abstractions" (Google it -- it's a great read), and I just don't see any excuse for letting negative numbers leak through to the user interface. It's just confusing and doesn't make the program itself any easier to maintain (the amount of code it would take to convert positive values back and forth to/from a dialog box is so trivial as to be insignificant). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On 12 Apr 2010, at 1:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > What I'd like, though, is the ability to set the top and bottom staff > and then have the ones in between spaced evenly automatically. Is > that available in current versions of Finale? No -- that's one area where Sibelius has a significant advantage. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On 12 Apr 2010 at 7:55, Rich Caldwell asked: > When was the "Respace Staves" option introduced On 12 Apr 2010 at 8:41, Noel Stoutenburg replied: > "Respace staves" was introduced at least by Finale 2k. On 12 Apr 2010 at 9:16, Robert Patterson wrote: > Respace Staves goes back at least to v3.0 (early 90s). It was in the first version of Finale I ever used, 2.01, back in 1991. My guess is that it's a near-original feature, and I'm glad to hear it's been enhanced. What I'd like, though, is the ability to set the top and bottom staff and then have the ones in between spaced evenly automatically. Is that available in current versions of Finale? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On Apr 12, 2010, at 12:25 AM, Lee Actor wrote: I've been using Finale for more than a decade, and have always thought it odd that adjusting staff position seemed to be the only item I had to adjust by eye and not by numerical position. Thanks for pointing this out! (Adjusting by eye does work pretty well, though.) I prefer entering numbers to dragging for just about anything, because that's just my personality. But it's especially important for this because I'll sometimes kludge something so that it's technically connected to one staff but is intended to appear on the next, so I need the space between to be an exact multiple of my staff space width. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
Respace Staves goes back at least to v3.0 (early 90s). What I don't remember is when it became possible to use it with optimized systems. This is a feature I discovered much more recently. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: > "Respace staves" was introduced at least by Finale 2k. > > ns > > > Rich Caldwell wrote: >> >> When was the "Respace Staves" option introduced? I seem to recall having >> to enter the staff positions in "Staff Usage" a while ago, or dragging every >> staff individually, but it's tedious just thinking about that now. >> >> Rich > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
"Respace staves" was introduced at least by Finale 2k. ns Rich Caldwell wrote: When was the "Respace Staves" option introduced? I seem to recall having to enter the staff positions in "Staff Usage" a while ago, or dragging every staff individually, but it's tedious just thinking about that now. Rich ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
When was the "Respace Staves" option introduced? I seem to recall having to enter the staff positions in "Staff Usage" a while ago, or dragging every staff individually, but it's tedious just thinking about that now. Rich On Apr 12, 2010, at 3:25 AM, Lee Actor wrote: >> Alternatively, you can select "Staff Usage" from the menu and enter >> the vertical positions directly. If you select the top handle, the >> dialog box will say "global"; if you select the bottom it will name >> which system you're adjusting. >> >> mdl > > I've been using Finale for more than a decade, and have always thought it > odd that adjusting staff position seemed to be the only item I had to adjust > by eye and not by numerical position. Thanks for pointing this out! > (Adjusting by eye does work pretty well, though.) > > Lee Actor > Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic > Assistant Conductor, Nova Vista Symphony > http://www.leeactor.com > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Spacing of staves
> Alternatively, you can select "Staff Usage" from the menu and enter > the vertical positions directly. If you select the top handle, the > dialog box will say "global"; if you select the bottom it will name > which system you're adjusting. > > mdl I've been using Finale for more than a decade, and have always thought it odd that adjusting staff position seemed to be the only item I had to adjust by eye and not by numerical position. Thanks for pointing this out! (Adjusting by eye does work pretty well, though.) Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic Assistant Conductor, Nova Vista Symphony http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
On Apr 11, 2010, at 5:07 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I'll elaborate just a bit on what Christopher Smith wrote: You have to Optimise, without removing any staves. This gives you a lower handle in the Staff Tool on each staff that adjusts the staff FOR THAT SYSTEM ONLY. You can still adjust global staff distances with the upper handle. When I make the adjustment to the first system by dragging the handle [...] Alternatively, you can select "Staff Usage" from the menu and enter the vertical positions directly. If you select the top handle, the dialog box will say "global"; if you select the bottom it will name which system you're adjusting. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
I'll elaborate just a bit on what Christopher Smith wrote: You have to Optimise, without removing any staves. This gives you a lower handle in the Staff Tool on each staff that adjusts the staff FOR THAT SYSTEM ONLY. You can still adjust global staff distances with the upper handle. When I make the adjustment to the first system by dragging the handle, I start from the bottom up; I calculate how much space I'll need (measured in music staff spaces), divide by one fewer than the total number of staves, and move the bottommost staff up by that quantity. Then clicking on lower handle of the next staff from the bottom, while holding down the shift key, (which selects both of the bottom two staves), I'll move both staves up by that same quantity, and then repeat as neaded for subsequent staves in the first sytem. I don't see where you mention the version of Finale that you're using; but both versions (select a handle and drag, and by means of the menu options) work at least as far back as Finale 2k, though they may be in a different space in earlier versions. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
Yes, Christopher, that works too, but there is a menu choice - Allow Individual Staff Spacing that accomplishes the same thing without the need to optimise the system. Chuck On Apr 11, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > You have to Optimise, without removing any staves. This gives you a lower > handle in the Staff Tool on each staff that adjusts the staff FOR THAT SYSTEM > ONLY. You can still adjust global staff distances with the upper handle. > > Christopher > > > On Sun Apr 11, at SundayApr 11 4:16 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: > >> Thought I knew this but now I can't remember or is this not possible? >> >> >> >> How can I make a score so that the distance between the staves are slightly >> less on the first page (to give room for the title etc) and fill "normally" >> on subsequent pages? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> /D >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
You have to Optimise, without removing any staves. This gives you a lower handle in the Staff Tool on each staff that adjusts the staff FOR THAT SYSTEM ONLY. You can still adjust global staff distances with the upper handle. Christopher On Sun Apr 11, at SundayApr 11 4:16 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Thought I knew this but now I can't remember or is this not possible? How can I make a score so that the distance between the staves are slightly less on the first page (to give room for the title etc) and fill "normally" on subsequent pages? Thanks /D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Spacing of staves
Page Layout/Allow Individual spacing On Apr 11, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: > Thought I knew this but now I can't remember or is this not possible? > > > > How can I make a score so that the distance between the staves are slightly > less on the first page (to give room for the title etc) and fill "normally" > on subsequent pages? > > > > Thanks > > /D > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
