Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
On 27-Nov-12, at 27-Nov-12 2:00 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: > > >> I have complained vociferously about both of >> these bugs, to no avail. Maybe a well-respected >> engraver such as yourself complaining would help >> get these fixed? > > sure. and i am going to make this next deadline, too. You seem to have a way to force these bugs to make an appearance, which is more than I always have. I have trouble coming up with consistent ways to make them show their ugly heads, so any time you have later to make a submission would be great. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
I compose directly into Finale (transposed score, chromatic, no key signatures), and often input notes in their transposed (i.e., as written) form. I admit, it can be disconcerting to hear the wrong pitch when entering notes. But when I do enter notes in concert pitch, I don't switch the score to display in concert pitch; instead I chromatically transpose the passage up a fifth or major second or whatever after entry. Maybe slightly less efficient than toggling the switch to display in concert pitch, but I rarely encounter the dreaded 9-key enharmonic bug (which I use all the time). -Lee -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:48 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug Hi Chris, I did not know this. This is obviously deeply stupid. I even use Transposed Scores! But when composing, I make the switch *after* entering the notes, and I suspect it's the same for anyone else who composes directly into Finale, without making detailed sketches on paper first. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > According to tech support, you are supposed to enter the notes you want in transposed pitch; anything you do here will stick. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
Hi Chris, I did not know this. This is obviously deeply stupid. I even use Transposed Scores! But when composing, I make the switch *after* entering the notes, and I suspect it's the same for anyone else who composes directly into Finale, without making detailed sketches on paper first. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > According to tech support, you are supposed to enter the notes you want in > transposed pitch; anything you do here will stick. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
Jef, The enharmonic spellings for the Mac are under the Finale 2012 menu: Preferences Measurement Units Enharmonic Spelling Michael mmathew_musicp...@yahoo.com http://www.musicengravers.com/cgi-bin/engravers.pl http://oregonmts.com/mathew/ > > From: SN jef chippewa >To: finale@shsu.edu >Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:00 AM >Subject: Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug > > >>chromatic transposition breaks forced appearance >>of some accidentals, especially if you compare >>concert and transposed versions, as you are >>doing. > >i also noticed this using the single pitch PI. >but never figured out what the conditions were >that made it happen. > >>For the first, just don't use the 9 key to flip >>enharmonics, because when you look away, it may >>flip itself back. > >here you are talking about the SC, right? because >in the PT this is the only way to correct some >spellings (i have many instances of E-3/4# for >example) > >>Also, if you select Favour Sharps or Favour >>Flats in the Enharmonic menu, this method is >>largely bulletproof > >mm, where the hell is this option these days? >i seem to recall setting it to one of those way >back when, but canèt find the bugger now. > >>For the second, there is no way that I know of >>to avoid this, other that using expressions >>(ugh!) or articulations to force the appearance. > >ok, thanks for confirming that this is just >another example of stupid finale design. > >>According to tech support, you are supposed to >>enter the notes you want in transposed pitch; >>anything you do here will stick. If you enter >>the notes in CONCERT pitch and then switch to >>transposed (when chromatic transposition is >>enacted) you don't know what you're going to get. > >brilliant. > >> In linked voiced parts this is particularly >>egregious, because you have no way to make a >>voiced part different in the part or score. >>Sometimes just entering or exiting the Speedy >>window causes the state of forced accidentals to >>flip their appearance. > >yes i have noticed this even without voiced parts. > >>I have complained vociferously about both of >>these bugs, to no avail. Maybe a well-respected >>engraver such as yourself complaining would help >>get these fixed? > >sure. and i am going to make this next deadline, too. > > >___ >Finale mailing list >Finale@shsu.edu >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
>chromatic transposition breaks forced appearance >of some accidentals, especially if you compare >concert and transposed versions, as you are >doing. i also noticed this using the single pitch PI. but never figured out what the conditions were that made it happen. >For the first, just don't use the 9 key to flip >enharmonics, because when you look away, it may >flip itself back. here you are talking about the SC, right? because in the PT this is the only way to correct some spellings (i have many instances of E-3/4# for example) >Also, if you select Favour Sharps or Favour >Flats in the Enharmonic menu, this method is >largely bulletproof mm, where the hell is this option these days? i seem to recall setting it to one of those way back when, but canèt find the bugger now. >For the second, there is no way that I know of >to avoid this, other that using expressions >(ugh!) or articulations to force the appearance. ok, thanks for confirming that this is just another example of stupid finale design. >According to tech support, you are supposed to >enter the notes you want in transposed pitch; >anything you do here will stick. If you enter >the notes in CONCERT pitch and then switch to >transposed (when chromatic transposition is >enacted) you don't know what you're going to get. brilliant. > In linked voiced parts this is particularly >egregious, because you have no way to make a >voiced part different in the part or score. >Sometimes just entering or exiting the Speedy >window causes the state of forced accidentals to >flip their appearance. yes i have noticed this even without voiced parts. >I have complained vociferously about both of >these bugs, to no avail. Maybe a well-respected >engraver such as yourself complaining would help >get these fixed? sure. and i am going to make this next deadline, too. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
i think expressions are better here because in addition to hiding in one or the other you can in fact set it to appear ONLY in the SC or PT if you want. > >The only solution I can think of for your EH part is to use >>articulations or expressions for the accis in the SC. > >yeah this is what i have to do already because of the 1/16-tones. >but completely stupid that it doesn't work right for flats / sharps >only. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
This is actually two different issues. One is the way the 9 key in Speedy breaks at inconvenient times; the other is the way chromatic transposition breaks forced appearance of some accidentals, especially if you compare concert and transposed versions, as you are doing. For the first, just don't use the 9 key to flip enharmonics, because when you look away, it may flip itself back. Or not, I can never tell. I enter the note diatonically and hit + or - to get the alteration (Robert, this might help you, as you won't have to use up one of your precious transposition metatools - I feel your pain). Also, if you select Favour Sharps or Favour Flats in the Enharmonic menu, this method is largely bulletproof, but I find it a pain to switch back and forth. For the second, there is no way that I know of to avoid this, other that using expressions (ugh!) or articulations to force the appearance. According to tech support, you are supposed to enter the notes you want in transposed pitch; anything you do here will stick. If you enter the notes in CONCERT pitch and then switch to transposed (when chromatic transposition is enacted) you don't know what you're going to get. In linked voiced parts this is particularly egregious, because you have no way to make a voiced part different in the part or score. Sometimes just entering or exiting the Speedy window causes the state of forced accidentals to flip their appearance. I have complained vociferously about both of these bugs, to no avail. Maybe a well-respected engraver such as yourself complaining would help get these fixed? Christopher On Tue Nov 27, at TuesdayNov 27 11:21 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: > >> The issue is speedy-9 key. If you use transposition or set the >> enharmonic preference before entering the note, there is (sfaik) no >> problem. > > so this should have largely disappeared in F2012 because of the score > manager, assuming the instruments were set up properly right from the > start? > > one thing i notice is after 9-ing the pitch in the PT and toggling > between transposed and in C, the enharmonic spelling shows in both > cases, while in C in the SC i see the original pitch. is this > behaviour (in the PT when in C) desirable for some reason? i would > think the SC in C spelling should show when showing in C in the PT, > no? > > have done a few instances and not noticing anything funky, but > expecting it at any minute... > > ah, here we go: on an F instrument (e.hn) there is no way to hide a > natural (F) in the PT where i have forced the flat to show (Bb) in > the SC (following rests; yes i really need them to show)? > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
>By "using transposition" I mean using the transposition command ah ok, gotcha >(The other 2 are up/down 8ve, and it infuriates me that no more are >available.) yep. >The only solution I can think of for your EH part is to use >articulations or expressions for the accis in the SC. yeah this is what i have to do already because of the 1/16-tones. but completely stupid that it doesn't work right for flats / sharps only. well i don't seem to have come across any weirdness after 9-ing many pitches. maybe the musicians will :P ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
and same problem, i can't force show an acci following a rest in the PT without the natural showing in the SC where it is not needed very stupid. >ah, here we go: on an F instrument (e.hn) there is no way to hide a >natural (F) in the PT where i have forced the flat to show (Bb) in >the SC (following rests; yes i really need them to show)? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
By "using transposition" I mean using the transposition command: nothing to do with inst transposition or Score Manager. I have devoted 2 of the precious 4 transposition metakeys to transposing up and down a diminished 2nd, just for this purpose. (The other 2 are up/down 8ve, and it infuriates me that no more are available.) The only solution I can think of for your EH part is to use articulations or expressions for the accis in the SC. On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:21 AM, SN jef chippewa < shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote: > > >The issue is speedy-9 key. If you use transposition or set the > >enharmonic preference before entering the note, there is (sfaik) no > >problem. > > so this should have largely disappeared in F2012 because of the score > manager, assuming the instruments were set up properly right from the > start? > > one thing i notice is after 9-ing the pitch in the PT and toggling > between transposed and in C, the enharmonic spelling shows in both > cases, while in C in the SC i see the original pitch. is this > behaviour (in the PT when in C) desirable for some reason? i would > think the SC in C spelling should show when showing in C in the PT, > no? > > have done a few instances and not noticing anything funky, but > expecting it at any minute... > > ah, here we go: on an F instrument (e.hn) there is no way to hide a > natural (F) in the PT where i have forced the flat to show (Bb) in > the SC (following rests; yes i really need them to show)? > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
>The issue is speedy-9 key. If you use transposition or set the >enharmonic preference before entering the note, there is (sfaik) no >problem. so this should have largely disappeared in F2012 because of the score manager, assuming the instruments were set up properly right from the start? one thing i notice is after 9-ing the pitch in the PT and toggling between transposed and in C, the enharmonic spelling shows in both cases, while in C in the SC i see the original pitch. is this behaviour (in the PT when in C) desirable for some reason? i would think the SC in C spelling should show when showing in C in the PT, no? have done a few instances and not noticing anything funky, but expecting it at any minute... ah, here we go: on an F instrument (e.hn) there is no way to hide a natural (F) in the PT where i have forced the flat to show (Bb) in the SC (following rests; yes i really need them to show)? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] transposing / linked parts / that acci bug
The issue is speedy-9 key. If you use transposition or set the enharmonic preference before entering the note, there is (sfaik) no problem. On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM, SN jef chippewa < shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote: > > can someone quickly give me the basics of the problem again? i need > to decide whether to make a separate document to continue working on > finishing up 12 transposing parts. > > i have a particular situation where i use the accis in parentheses > for 1/4 tones, which works in most cases. but i have also manually > altered the accis in some places for 1/16 tones. so there are > specific pitches in specific instruments that show wrong. i can get > around this by using a different expression as acci in SC and PT and > sometimes also 9-ing the pitch (enharmonic respelling) in speedy. > > i remember there being something about stuck accis and the enharmonic > change... but the brain is jelly these days. > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
