Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[David Fang]

Hi again,

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Daniel Macks wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 05:51:23PM +0200, Jean-Fran?ois Mertens wrote:
>>
>> On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:52, Daniel Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, libdevil1 is in fink unstable.
>>
>> Right _ and graphviz(-shlibs) does link nicely with it :)
>
> And I've got libgs ready to go as soon as I resolve a licensing
> issue. graphviz also links fine with it.
>
> dan

(Sorry, been a little occupied last few weeks!)
I've gone through and removed most of the gnome deps that dmacks 
suggested, and for now explicitly disabled gts/devil/lasi until -nox is 
more polished.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2810042&group_id=17203&atid=414256

Once this is in decent shape, I'll work on -plugins to separate out the 
extension language plugins.
Thanks for reviewing and thanks for your patience.

Fang

David Fang
http://www.csl.cornell.edu/~fang/
http://www.achronix.com/


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Alexander Hansen]

David Fang wrote:


> There will be no dependencies between graphviz variants. graphviz-base
> (whatever we name it) will have to conflict/replace other sibling
> variants *unless* there is an easy and reliable way to separate out a
> plug-in-only build/package (not via split-off b/c that would still
> bring in all the optional deps).  (Unpack the whole thing and rebuild,
> but strip out files already installed by the -base package?)
That's one way, yeah. 

We do that for svn, because the normal build tries to build all of the
bindings as well, and people were getting miffed about having to have
X11 installed for the command-line client. :-) (because it built the
python bindings). 
We also do that for other packages that would normally build python and
perl bindings so that those can be set up according to Fink policy,
rather than installed in whatever arbitrary location the package would
place them.
And I do that for doc packages that use tetex to build the documents,
because that seems like extra overhead.

>
>> Does X11 only play a role in the plugins?  If so, then something like
>>
>>graphviz-base
>>graphviz-plugins-nox | graphviz-plugins
>>
>> would be appropriate in that case, and a "graphviz | graphviz-nox"
>> bundle package to depend on both the -base and -plugins.
>
> I *believe* that the language plug-ins are orthogonal to the x11
> features. The plug-ins are for accessing the internals of graphviz
> through some API. (I can't say with 100% certainty because I haven't
> used them.)  So technically, there could exist an x11 version without
> language bindings, which would make a two-level variant (4
> combinations) more appropriate.
>
> I can see that there is quite a bit of work to do on this.
> Should I try to make all such revisions in one shot?  or perhaps do
> this more incrementally, starting with just the -nox variant, and then
> work on plug-ins in the next revision?  What makes more sense?
>
> Fang
>
> David Fang
> http://www.csl.cornell.edu/~fang/
> http://www.achronix.com/
>

It might be easier to have two package descriptions:

graphviz | graphviz-nox
graphviz-plugins

with the latter Depending on either of the former variants.  That's a
little more maintainer labor, but on the other hand you avoid having
essentially identical 'graphviz-plugins' and 'graphviz-nox-plugins'
packages. (or whatever they wind up being called).

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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[David Fang]

Hi again,
Comments below, in order:

 Thanks for the feedback everyone.
 There was also some discussion of creating a more minimalist variant
 without all of the extension language bindings.
 So how does the following sound?
 graphviz-base (no x11, no language plug-ins, just dot and friends)

>>> graphviz-base sounds like it's the core package that has other sub
>>> packages available that add further features.  In fact, that's what a
>>> lot of the kde packages do:
>>>   Maybe
>>> graphviz-basic or graphviz-minimal?
>>
>> On the other hand, I believe that's the way tetex is packaged:
>>
>> with tetex conflicting with/replacing tetex-base and tetex-nox
>> conflicting with/replacing tetex-nox-base.
>>
>> I'm not sure that's an actual policy for this or if one is really
>> necessary. For what it's worth, my personal choice is David's original
>> suggestion.
>>
 graphviz-nox (no x11, but with 'all' language plug-ins)
 graphviz (with x11, gtk+pangocairo, all the fixins
>>
>> --
>> monipol
>> http://finkers.wordpress.com
>>
> For what it's worth:  'tetex' is just a placeholder needed to install an
> X11-enabled teTeX distro and Depends: tetex-base, and 'tetex-nox' does
> the same thing for an X11-less version, Depending on tetex-nox-base.
> There used to be a bundle-tetex package, and 'tetex' acually contained
> useful stuff, but that shifted around.  They both Depend on the
> respective tetex-base

There will be no dependencies between graphviz variants. graphviz-base 
(whatever we name it) will have to conflict/replace other sibling variants 
*unless* there is an easy and reliable way to separate out a plug-in-only 
build/package (not via split-off b/c that would still bring in all the 
optional deps).  (Unpack the whole thing and rebuild, but strip out files 
already installed by the -base package?)

> Does X11 only play a role in the plugins?  If so, then something like
>
>graphviz-base
>graphviz-plugins-nox | graphviz-plugins
>
> would be appropriate in that case, and a "graphviz | graphviz-nox"
> bundle package to depend on both the -base and -plugins.

I *believe* that the language plug-ins are orthogonal to the x11 features. 
The plug-ins are for accessing the internals of graphviz through some API. 
(I can't say with 100% certainty because I haven't used them.)  So 
technically, there could exist an x11 version without language bindings, 
which would make a two-level variant (4 combinations) more appropriate.

I can see that there is quite a bit of work to do on this.
Should I try to make all such revisions in one shot?  or perhaps do this 
more incrementally, starting with just the -nox variant, and then work on 
plug-ins in the next revision?  What makes more sense?

Fang

David Fang
http://www.csl.cornell.edu/~fang/
http://www.achronix.com/


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Alexander Hansen]

monipol wrote:
> On 28/06/2009, at 19:22, Hanspeter Niederstrasser wrote:
>   
>> David Fang wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
>>> There was also some discussion of creating a more minimalist variant
>>> without all of the extension language bindings.
>>>
>>> So how does the following sound?
>>>
>>> graphviz-base (no x11, no language plug-ins, just dot and friends)
>>>   
>> graphviz-base sounds like it's the core package that has other sub
>> packages available that add further features.  In fact, that's what a
>> lot of the kde packages do:
>>   Maybe
>> graphviz-basic or graphviz-minimal?
>> 
>
> On the other hand, I believe that's the way tetex is packaged:
>
> $ fink list tetex
> tetex   3.0-1006  Complete distribution of the TeX typesetting  
> system
> tetex-base  3.0-1006  Base programs for a teTeX installation
> tetex-nox   3.0-1006  Complete distribution of the TeX typesetting  
> system
> tetex-nox-base  3.0-1006  Base programs for a teTeX installation
> tetex-texmf 3.0-2 Main texmf tree for a teTeX installation
>
> with tetex conflicting with/replacing tetex-base and tetex-nox  
> conflicting with/replacing tetex-nox-base.
>
> I'm not sure that's an actual policy for this or if one is really  
> necessary. For what it's worth, my personal choice is David's original  
> suggestion.
>
>   
>>> graphviz-nox (no x11, but with 'all' language plug-ins)
>>> graphviz (with x11, gtk+pangocairo, all the fixins
>>>   
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> monipol
> http://finkers.wordpress.com
>
>   
For what it's worth:  'tetex' is just a placeholder needed to install an
X11-enabled teTeX distro and Depends: tetex-base, and 'tetex-nox' does
the same thing for an X11-less version, Depending on tetex-nox-base.  
There used to be a bundle-tetex package, and 'tetex' acually contained
useful stuff, but that shifted around.  They both Depend on the
respective tetex-base

Does X11 only play a role in the plugins?  If so, then something like

graphviz-base
graphviz-plugins-nox | graphviz-plugins

would be appropriate in that case, and a "graphviz | graphviz-nox"
bundle package to depend on both the -base and -plugins.

-- 
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Fink User Liaison


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[monipol]

On 28/06/2009, at 19:22, Hanspeter Niederstrasser wrote:
> David Fang wrote:
>> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
>> There was also some discussion of creating a more minimalist variant
>> without all of the extension language bindings.
>>
>> So how does the following sound?
>>
>> graphviz-base (no x11, no language plug-ins, just dot and friends)
>
> graphviz-base sounds like it's the core package that has other sub
> packages available that add further features.  In fact, that's what a
> lot of the kde packages do:
>   Maybe
> graphviz-basic or graphviz-minimal?

On the other hand, I believe that's the way tetex is packaged:

$ fink list tetex
tetex   3.0-1006  Complete distribution of the TeX typesetting  
system
tetex-base  3.0-1006  Base programs for a teTeX installation
tetex-nox   3.0-1006  Complete distribution of the TeX typesetting  
system
tetex-nox-base  3.0-1006  Base programs for a teTeX installation
tetex-texmf 3.0-2 Main texmf tree for a teTeX installation

with tetex conflicting with/replacing tetex-base and tetex-nox  
conflicting with/replacing tetex-nox-base.

I'm not sure that's an actual policy for this or if one is really  
necessary. For what it's worth, my personal choice is David's original  
suggestion.

>> graphviz-nox (no x11, but with 'all' language plug-ins)
>> graphviz (with x11, gtk+pangocairo, all the fixins



Cheers,

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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Hanspeter Niederstrasser]

David Fang wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> There was also some discussion of creating a more minimalist variant 
> without all of the extension language bindings.
> 
> So how does the following sound?
> 
> graphviz-base (no x11, no language plug-ins, just dot and friends)

graphviz-base sounds like it's the core package that has other sub 
packages available that add further features.  In fact, that's what a 
lot of the kde packages do: 
  Maybe 
graphviz-basic or graphviz-minimal?

> graphviz-nox (no x11, but with 'all' language plug-ins)
> graphviz (with x11, gtk+pangocairo, all the fixins

Hanspeter


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[David Fang]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
There was also some discussion of creating a more minimalist variant 
without all of the extension language bindings.

So how does the following sound?

graphviz-base (no x11, no language plug-ins, just dot and friends)
graphviz-nox (no x11, but with 'all' language plug-ins)
graphviz (with x11, gtk+pangocairo, all the fixins

Fang)

David Fang
http://www.csl.cornell.edu/~fang/
http://www.achronix.com/


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Daniel Macks]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 05:51:23PM +0200, Jean-Fran?ois Mertens wrote:
> 
> On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:52, Daniel Johnson wrote:
> 
> >Actually, libdevil1 is in fink unstable.
> 
> Right _ and graphviz(-shlibs) does link nicely with it :)

And I've got libgs ready to go as soon as I resolve a licensing
issue. graphviz also links fine with it.

dan

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dma...@netspace.org
http://www.netspace.org/~dmacks


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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Jean-François Mertens]

On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:52, Daniel Johnson wrote:

> Actually, libdevil1 is in fink unstable.

Right _ and graphviz(-shlibs) does link nicely with it :)

Jean-Francois

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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Daniel Johnson]

On Jun 22, 2009, at 4:36 AM, Daniel Macks wrote:


On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 04:58:56PM -0400, David Fang wrote:

Hi all,
After sensing a disturbance in the Source (reading my emails),
I've gathered that several people (myself included) find the current
graphviz package a little dependence-heavy.  I'm considering  
writing a
Type: -nox variant, which I might need a little guidance with.  I'm  
armed
with the packaging manual and some examples (emacs22.info,  
vim.info).  I

need a little advice on which dependencies I can drop for -nox.  For
example, can I remove all of the gnome, gtk, pango, cairo deps?


Many of the upper-level gnome dependencies can probably be removed,
period, even in a fully-gui-enabled package. They appear to be unused
by graphviz itself, and were probably only needed via inheritance from
older versions of some dependency. By setting the current (unstable)
versions of the dependencies, you can eliminate all the packages
related to avahi, bonobo, bonoboui, gnome-vfs, gnome-keyring,
libgnome, libgnomecanvas, libgnomeui, libart2, popt. You can also
simplify the ConfigureParams: don't need any FREETYPE2_*, and don't
need the pango-ft219 or freetype219 components in PKG_CONFIG_PATH.

Unrelated dependency bug: configure autodetects the gts/gts-shlibs and
lasi-dev/lasi-shlibs packages, so need to add dependencies on them or
force them to be ignored. Also detection of ghostscript (iapi.h and
-lgs) and DevIL fail because those libs aren't in fink *right now*,
but for sanity should still disable detection in case they ever do get
into fink.


Actually, libdevil1 is in fink unstable.

Daniel



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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[Daniel Macks]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 04:58:56PM -0400, David Fang wrote:
> Hi all,
>   After sensing a disturbance in the Source (reading my emails), 
> I've gathered that several people (myself included) find the current 
> graphviz package a little dependence-heavy.  I'm considering writing a 
> Type: -nox variant, which I might need a little guidance with.  I'm armed 
> with the packaging manual and some examples (emacs22.info, vim.info).  I 
> need a little advice on which dependencies I can drop for -nox.  For 
> example, can I remove all of the gnome, gtk, pango, cairo deps?

Many of the upper-level gnome dependencies can probably be removed,
period, even in a fully-gui-enabled package. They appear to be unused
by graphviz itself, and were probably only needed via inheritance from
older versions of some dependency. By setting the current (unstable)
versions of the dependencies, you can eliminate all the packages
related to avahi, bonobo, bonoboui, gnome-vfs, gnome-keyring,
libgnome, libgnomecanvas, libgnomeui, libart2, popt. You can also
simplify the ConfigureParams: don't need any FREETYPE2_*, and don't
need the pango-ft219 or freetype219 components in PKG_CONFIG_PATH.

Unrelated dependency bug: configure autodetects the gts/gts-shlibs and
lasi-dev/lasi-shlibs packages, so need to add dependencies on them or
force them to be ignored. Also detection of ghostscript (iapi.h and
-lgs) and DevIL fail because those libs aren't in fink *right now*,
but for sanity should still disable detection in case they ever do get
into fink.

dan

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Re: [Fink-devel] graphviz-nox prospects

[David Fang]

>   After sensing a disturbance in the Source (reading my emails),
> I've gathered that several people (myself included) find the current
> graphviz package a little dependence-heavy.  I'm considering writing a
> Type: -nox variant, which I might need a little guidance with.  I'm armed
> with the packaging manual and some examples (emacs22.info, vim.info).  I
> need a little advice on which dependencies I can drop for -nox.  For
> example, can I remove all of the gnome, gtk, pango, cairo deps?

For those interested, iterations of the graphviz-nox variant packaging are 
happening here:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2810042&group_id=17203&atid=414256

fangism

David Fang
http://www.csl.cornell.edu/~fang/
http://www.achronix.com/


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