[Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Sungchul Ji]

Hi,


I am forwarding a slightly modified version of my previous post with the same 
title which was rejected by the FIS list due to the heavy attachments. The most 
significant addition is written in green.  The removed attachments are now 
replaced by their web addresses from which they can be downloaded free of 
charge.


Best.


Sung


From: Sungchul Ji
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:02 AM
To: FIS FIS
Cc: Sergey Petoukhov; dani...@shirasawa-acl.net; John Stuart Reid; sayer ji; 
sji.confor...@gmail.com; x...@chemistry.harvard.edu; 
sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu; n...@princeton.edu
Subject: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"


Hi FISers,


In 2003, Takuji Shirasawa and his coworkers [1] found that mutating certain 
amino acids in the hemoglobin molecule (Hb) in mice produced the following 
effects:


(1) increase O_2 consumption and CO_2 production,

(2) the conversion of the muscle histology from a fast glycolytic to a fast 
oxidative type,

(3) a mild anemia, and

(4) faster running speed.


In other words, Shirasawa et al provided a concrete example of molecular 
changes (e.g., amino acid mutations in Hb)  leading to (or associated with) 
macroscopic physiological changes in whole animals (e.g., anemia,  running 
behavior, etc.).  For the convenience of discussions, I am taking the liberty 
of referring to this finding as the "Shirasawa et al. phenomenon/effect" or, 
more briefly, the "Shirasawa phenomenon/effect" which may be viewed as the 
macroscopic version of the Bohr effect [2].


The 'Shirasawa phenomenon/effect' is not limited to hemoglobin.  There are now 
many similar phenomena found in the fields of voltage-gated ion channels, i.e., 
molecular changes in the amino acid sequences of ion channel proteins leading 
to (or associated with) macroscopic effects on the human body called diseases 
[3].


Although the current tendency among practicing molecular biologists and 
biophysicists would be to explain away what is here called the Shirasawa 
phenomenon in terms of the microscopic changes "causing" the macroscopic 
phenomenon in a 1:1 basis, another possibility is that the microscopic changes 
"cause" a set of other microscopic changes at the DNA molecular level which in 
turn cause a set of macroscopic changes", in a many-to-many fashion.


Current trend:  Microscopic change (Hb mutation) ->  Macroscopic change 
1 (Oxygen affinity change of blood) -> Macroscopic change 2 (O_2 
metabolism,
 anemia, running behavior)



Althernative mechanism:  Microscopic change 1 (Hb mutation) ---> 
Microscopic change 2 (Changes in the standing waves in DNA) ---> Multiple 
macroscopic changes (O_2 metabolism, anemia, muscle cell histological changes).


The alternative mechanism proposed here seems to me to be more consistent with 
the newly emerging models of molecular genetics [4] and single-molecule 
enzymology [5, 6].



Since the 'Shirasawa phenomenon/effect' evidently implicates information 
transfer from the microscale to the macroscale, it may be of interest to many 
information theoreticians in this group.   If you have any questions, comments, 
or suggestions, please let me know.


All the best.


Sung



References:

   [1] Shirasawa, T., et al. (2003).  Oxygen Affinity of Hemoglboin Regulaters 
O_2 Comsumtion, Metabolism, and Physical Activity.  J. Biol. Chem. 278(7): 
5035-5043.  PDF at http://www.jbc.org/content/278/7/5035.full.pdf

   [2] The Bohr effect.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect
   [3] Huang W, Liu M, S Yan F, Yan N. (2017).  Structure-based assessment of 
disease-related mutations in human voltage-gated sodium 
channels.
 Protein Cell. 8(6):401-438. PDF at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28150151

   [4] Petoukhov, S. V. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in modeling 
genetic structures. BioSystems 139: 1–11. PDF at 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264715001732

   [5] Lu, H. P., Xun, L. and Xie, X. S. (1998) Single-Molecule Enzymatic 
Dynamics. Science 282:1877-1882.  PDF at 
http://www.jbc.org/content/274/23/15967.short
   [6] Ji, S. (2017). RASER Model of Single-Molecule Enzyme Catalysis and Its 
Application to the Ribosome Structure and Function. Arch Mol. Med & Gen 1:104. 
PDF at http://hendun.org/journals/AMMG/PDF/AMMG-18-1-104.pdf






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Fis mailing list
Fis@listas.unizar.es
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Arthur Wist]

Hi,

Just a short note to first of all say thank you, I've find this very
helpful to know albeit I can't point to a direct application. Secondly
however, I do wonder: Why & how come you neglected to - in either an
inclusionary or exclusionary manner - address any potential epigenetic
mechanisms?

Kind regards,


Arthur

On 20 April 2018 at 19:32, Sungchul Ji  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I am forwarding a slightly modified version of my previous post with the
> same title which was rejected by the FIS list due to the heavy attachments.
> The most significant addition is written in green.  The removed attachments
> are now replaced by their web addresses from which they can be downloaded
> free of charge.
>
>
> Best.
>
>
> Sung
>
> 
> From: Sungchul Ji
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:02 AM
> To: FIS FIS
> Cc: Sergey Petoukhov; dani...@shirasawa-acl.net; John Stuart Reid; sayer ji;
> sji.confor...@gmail.com; x...@chemistry.harvard.edu;
> sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu; n...@princeton.edu
> Subject: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"
>
>
> Hi FISers,
>
>
> In 2003, Takuji Shirasawa and his coworkers [1] found that mutating certain
> amino acids in the hemoglobin molecule (Hb) in mice produced the following
> effects:
>
> (1) increase O_2 consumption and CO_2 production,
>
> (2) the conversion of the muscle histology from a fast glycolytic to a fast
> oxidative type,
>
> (3) a mild anemia, and
>
> (4) faster running speed.
>
>
> In other words, Shirasawa et al provided a concrete example of molecular
> changes (e.g., amino acid mutations in Hb)  leading to (or associated with)
> macroscopic physiological changes in whole animals (e.g., anemia,  running
> behavior, etc.).  For the convenience of discussions, I am taking the
> liberty of referring to this finding as the "Shirasawa et al.
> phenomenon/effect" or, more briefly, the "Shirasawa phenomenon/effect" which
> may be viewed as the macroscopic version of the Bohr effect [2].
>
>
> The 'Shirasawa phenomenon/effect' is not limited to hemoglobin.  There are
> now many similar phenomena found in the fields of voltage-gated ion
> channels, i.e., molecular changes in the amino acid sequences of ion channel
> proteins leading to (or associated with) macroscopic effects on the human
> body called diseases [3].
>
>
> Although the current tendency among practicing molecular biologists and
> biophysicists would be to explain away what is here called the Shirasawa
> phenomenon in terms of the microscopic changes "causing" the macroscopic
> phenomenon in a 1:1 basis, another possibility is that the microscopic
> changes "cause" a set of other microscopic changes at the DNA molecular
> level which in turn cause a set of macroscopic changes", in a many-to-many
> fashion.
>
>
> Current trend:  Microscopic change (Hb mutation) ->  Macroscopic
> change 1 (Oxygen affinity change of blood) -> Macroscopic change 2
> (O_2 metabolism, anemia, running behavior)
>
>
>
> Althernative mechanism:  Microscopic change 1 (Hb mutation) --->
> Microscopic change 2 (Changes in the standing waves in DNA) --->
> Multiple macroscopic changes (O_2 metabolism, anemia, muscle cell
> histological changes).
>
>
> The alternative mechanism proposed here seems to me to be more consistent
> with the newly emerging models of molecular genetics [4] and single-molecule
> enzymology [5, 6].
>
>
>
> Since the 'Shirasawa phenomenon/effect' evidently implicates information
> transfer from the microscale to the macroscale, it may be of interest to
> many information theoreticians in this group.   If you have any questions,
> comments, or suggestions, please let me know.
>
>
> All the best.
>
>
> Sung
>
>
>
> References:
>
>[1] Shirasawa, T., et al. (2003).  Oxygen Affinity of Hemoglboin
> Regulaters O_2 Comsumtion, Metabolism, and Physical Activity.  J. Biol.
> Chem. 278(7): 5035-5043.  PDF at
> http://www.jbc.org/content/278/7/5035.full.pdf
>
>[2] The Bohr effect.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect
>[3] Huang W, Liu M, S Yan F, Yan N. (2017).  Structure-based assessment
> of disease-related mutations in human voltage-gated sodium channels. Protein
> Cell. 8(6):401-438. PDF at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28150151
>
>[4] Petoukhov, S. V. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in modeling
> genetic structures. BioSystems 139: 1–11. PDF at
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264715001732
>
>[5] Lu, H. P., Xun, L. and Xie, X. S. (1998) Single-Molecule Enzymatic
> Dynamics. Science 282:1877-1882.  PDF at
> http://www.jbc.org/content/274/23/15967.short
>[6] Ji, S. (2017). RASER Model of Single-Molecule Enzyme Catalysis and
> Its Application to the Ribosome Structure and Function. Arch Mol. Med & Gen
> 1:104. PDF at http://hendun.org/journals/AMMG/PDF/AMMG-18-1-104.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Fis mailing list
> Fis@listas.unizar.es
> http://list

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Sungchul Ji]

Hi Arthur and  FISers,

Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics (defined 
here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any changes in the 
nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my previous post is because 
I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of 
genetics, not the top-down (from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting 
to note that our brain seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down 
mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact 
that we have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the 
Dao).

One way to integrate the bottom-up and top-down mechanisms underlying genetic 
phenomenon may be to invoke the principle of vibrational resonance -- to view 
both the micro-scale DNA and  the macro-scale environment of organisms as 
vibrational systems or systems of oscillators that can exchange information and 
energy through the well-known mechanisms of resonance (e.g., the resonance 
between the oscillatory motions of the swing and the arms of the mother; both 
motions must have same frequencies. otherwise the child will not swing).  
According to the Fourier theorem, any oscillatory motions of DNA including very 
low frequencies can be generated by linear combinations of  very fast covalent 
bond vibrations in  DNA and  hence can be coupled to slow oscillatory motions 
of the environment, e.g., musical sounds. If this view is correct, music can 
affect, DIRECTLY (i.e., unmediated by the auditory system of the brain), the 
molecular motions of DNA in every cell in our body.  In other words, we can 
hear music not only through our ears but also through our whole body including 
blood.  Because of the patent  issue, I cannot reveal the experimental evidence 
supporting this claim, but, indue course, I hope to share with you the 
scientific evidence we obtained recently.

In conclusion, it may be that  the yin-yang doctrine of the Daoist philosophy 
(or any other equivalent principles) applies here, since molecular genetics and 
epigenetics may constitute  the irreconcilable opposites:

"Genetics has two complementary aspects -- molecular genetics and epigenetics."

"Molecular genetics and epigenetics are the complementary aspects of genetics."

"Genetic phenomena can be accounted for in two irreconcilably opposite manner 
with equal validity -- through the bottom-up (or reductionistic) or the 
top-down  (or holistic) approaches."

The last statement would help avoid many wasteful debates in the field of 
genetics.

 If you have any questions or corrections, please let me know.

Sung












From: Arthur Wist 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 6:48 PM
To: Sungchul Ji; FIS FIS
Cc: sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu; Sergey Petoukhov; ole2001@med.cornell; 
dani...@shirasawa-acl.net; Sungchul Ji; x...@chemistry.harvard.edu; 
n...@princeton.edu
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

Hi,

Just a short note to first of all say thank you, I've find this very
helpful to know albeit I can't point to a direct application. Secondly
however, I do wonder: Why & how come you neglected to - in either an
inclusionary or exclusionary manner - address any potential epigenetic
mechanisms?

Kind regards,


Arthur

On 20 April 2018 at 19:32, Sungchul Ji  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I am forwarding a slightly modified version of my previous post with the
> same title which was rejected by the FIS list due to the heavy attachments.
> The most significant addition is written in green.  The removed attachments
> are now replaced by their web addresses from which they can be downloaded
> free of charge.
>
>
> Best.
>
>
> Sung
>
> 
> From: Sungchul Ji
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:02 AM
> To: FIS FIS
> Cc: Sergey Petoukhov; dani...@shirasawa-acl.net; John Stuart Reid; sayer ji;
> sji.confor...@gmail.com; x...@chemistry.harvard.edu;
> sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu; n...@princeton.edu
> Subject: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"
>
>
> Hi FISers,
>
>
> In 2003, Takuji Shirasawa and his coworkers [1] found that mutating certain
> amino acids in the hemoglobin molecule (Hb) in mice produced the following
> effects:
>
> (1) increase O_2 consumption and CO_2 production,
>
> (2) the conversion of the muscle histology from a fast glycolytic to a fast
> oxidative type,
>
> (3) a mild anemia, and
>
> (4) faster running speed.
>
>
> In other words, Shirasawa et al provided a concrete example of molecular
> changes (e.g., amino acid mutations in Hb)  leading to (or associated with)
> macroscopic physiological changes in whole animals (e.g., anemia,  running
> behavior, etc

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Stanley N Salthe]

Sung -- regarding:

The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without
imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not
mentioned in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the
bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down
(from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain
seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms
simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact that we
have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the
Dao).

It is interesting that I early realized the difficulty many folks have with
visualizing at one time both the top-down AND bottom-up aspects of the
compositional hierarchy:
[large scale constraints -> [activity in focus <- [small
scale affordances]]]

Perhaps your suggestion is involved here as well!

STAN

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Sungchul Ji 
wrote:

> Hi Arthur and  FISers,
>
> Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics
> (defined here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any
> changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my
> previous post is because I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from
> micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down (from macro to
> micro) mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain seems unable to
> handle both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it
> may have something to do with the fact that we have two brain hemispheres
> (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the Dao).
>
> One way to integrate the bottom-up and top-down mechanisms underlying
> genetic phenomenon may be to invoke the principle of vibrational resonance
> -- to view both the micro-scale DNA and  the macro-scale environment of
> organisms as vibrational systems or systems of oscillators that can
> exchange information and energy through the well-known mechanisms of
> resonance (e.g., the resonance between the oscillatory motions of the swing
> and the arms of the mother; both motions must have same
> frequencies. otherwise the child will not swing).  According to the
> Fourier theorem, any oscillatory motions of DNA including very low
> frequencies can be generated by linear combinations of  very fast
> covalent bond vibrations in  DNA and  hence can be coupled to slow
> oscillatory motions of the environment, e.g., musical sounds. If this view
> is correct, music can affect, DIRECTLY (i.e., unmediated by the auditory
> system of the brain), the molecular motions of DNA in every cell in our
> body.  In other words, we can hear music not only through our ears but also
> through our whole body including blood.  Because of the patent  issue, I
> cannot reveal the experimental evidence supporting this claim, but, indue
> course, I hope to share with you the scientific evidence we obtained
> recently.
>
> In conclusion, it may be that  the yin-yang doctrine of the Daoist
> philosophy (or any other equivalent principles) applies here, since
> molecular genetics and epigenetics may constitute  the
> irreconcilable opposites:
>
> "Genetics has two complementary aspects -- molecular genetics and
> epigenetics."
>
> "Molecular genetics and epigenetics are the complementary
> aspects of genetics."
>
> "Genetic phenomena can be accounted for in two irreconcilably opposite
> manner with equal validity -- through the bottom-up (or reductionistic) or
> the top-down  (or holistic) approaches."
>
> The last statement would help avoid many wasteful debates in the field of
> genetics.
>
>  If you have any questions or corrections, please let me know.
>
> Sung
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Arthur Wist 
> *Sent:* Friday, April 27, 2018 6:48 PM
> *To:* Sungchul Ji; FIS FIS
> *Cc:* sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu; Sergey Petoukhov;
> ole2001@med.cornell; dani...@shirasawa-acl.net; Sungchul Ji;
> x...@chemistry.harvard.edu; n...@princeton.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa
> effect"
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a short note to first of all say thank you, I've find this very
> helpful to know albeit I can't point to a direct application. Secondly
> however, I do wonder: Why & how come you neglected to - in either an
> inclusionary or exclusionary manner - address any potential epigenetic
> mechanisms?
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Arthur
>
> On 20 April 2018 at 19:32, Sungchul Ji  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I am forwarding a slightly modified version of my previous post with the
> > same title which was rejec

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Sungchul Ji]

Hi Stan,


True.  Our brain seems to have many limitations, one of which is our inability 
to see the forest and the trees simultaneously.


It is interesting to note that we cannot measure (or at least not easy to 
measure) particles and waves of quons  (or quantum objects) simultaneously 
either,  although there are occasional claims asserting otherwise. Here we have 
two entities, A and B, that are not compositionally related (i.e., A is not a 
part of B) as are trees and the forest, but "complementarily" related (i.e., 
A^B, read A or B, depending on measurement) and hence does not involve any 
hierarchy.


All the best.


Sung


From: Fis  on behalf of Stanley N Salthe 

Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:49 AM
To: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

Sung -- regarding:

The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without 
imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned 
in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from 
micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down (from macro to micro) 
mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain seems unable to handle 
both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it may have 
something to do with the fact that we have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) 
but only one vocal cord (the Dao).

It is interesting that I early realized the difficulty many folks have with 
visualizing at one time both the top-down AND bottom-up aspects of the 
compositional hierarchy:
[large scale constraints -> [activity in focus <- [small scale 
affordances]]]

Perhaps your suggestion is involved here as well!

STAN

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Sungchul Ji 
mailto:s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>> wrote:

Hi Arthur and  FISers,

Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics (defined 
here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any changes in the 
nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my previous post is because 
I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of 
genetics, not the top-down (from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting 
to note that our brain seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down 
mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact 
that we have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the 
Dao).

One way to integrate the bottom-up and top-down mechanisms underlying genetic 
phenomenon may be to invoke the principle of vibrational resonance -- to view 
both the micro-scale DNA and  the macro-scale environment of organisms as 
vibrational systems or systems of oscillators that can exchange information and 
energy through the well-known mechanisms of resonance (e.g., the resonance 
between the oscillatory motions of the swing and the arms of the mother; both 
motions must have same frequencies. otherwise the child will not swing).  
According to the Fourier theorem, any oscillatory motions of DNA including very 
low frequencies can be generated by linear combinations of  very fast covalent 
bond vibrations in  DNA and  hence can be coupled to slow oscillatory motions 
of the environment, e.g., musical sounds. If this view is correct, music can 
affect, DIRECTLY (i.e., unmediated by the auditory system of the brain), the 
molecular motions of DNA in every cell in our body.  In other words, we can 
hear music not only through our ears but also through our whole body including 
blood.  Because of the patent  issue, I cannot reveal the experimental evidence 
supporting this claim, but, indue course, I hope to share with you the 
scientific evidence we obtained recently.

In conclusion, it may be that  the yin-yang doctrine of the Daoist philosophy 
(or any other equivalent principles) applies here, since molecular genetics and 
epigenetics may constitute  the irreconcilable opposites:

"Genetics has two complementary aspects -- molecular genetics and epigenetics."

"Molecular genetics and epigenetics are the complementary aspects of genetics."

"Genetic phenomena can be accounted for in two irreconcilably opposite manner 
with equal validity -- through the bottom-up (or reductionistic) or the 
top-down  (or holistic) approaches."

The last statement would help avoid many wasteful debates in the field of 
genetics.

 If you have any questions or corrections, please let me know.

Sung












From: Arthur Wist mailto:arthur.w...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 6:48 PM
To: Sungchul Ji; FIS FIS
Cc: sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu<mailto:sbur...@proteomics.rutgers.edu>; 
Sergey Petoukhov; ole2001@med.cornell; 
dani...@shirasawa-acl.net<mailto:dani...@shirasawa-acl.net>; Sungchul Ji; 
x...@chemistry.harvard.edu&

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[karl javorszky]

Dear Sung,

Very encouraging the discussion of the difficulties human perception poses
while trying to consolidate opposites.

The existence of the mental image is built on contrasts, so no wonder we
find it hard to get a good grip on the mechanisms at work consolidating
contradictions.

To the opposites we work on :

tree vs. forest,
top vs. bottom,
little vs. big,

could we also add:

background vs. foreground,
across the flow vs. along the flow of time,
commutative vs. sequenced?

If so, there appear some encouraging hints, that a rational methodology has
been found to consolidate opposites.

Karl

Sungchul Ji  schrieb am Do., 3. Mai 2018 18:01:

> Hi Stan,
>
>
> True.  Our brain seems to have many limitations, one of which is our
> inability to see the forest and the trees simultaneously.
>
>
> It is interesting to note that we cannot measure (or at least not easy to
> measure) particles and waves of quons  (or quantum objects) simultaneously
> either,  although there are occasional claims asserting otherwise. Here we
> have two entities, A and B, that are not compositionally related (i.e., A
> is not a part of B) as are trees and the forest, but "complementarily"
> related (i.e., A^B, read A or B, depending on measurement) and hence does
> not involve any hierarchy.
>
>
> All the best.
>
>
> Sung
>
> --
> *From:* Fis  on behalf of Stanley N Salthe <
> ssal...@binghamton.edu>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:49 AM
> *To:* fis
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa
> effect"
>
> Sung -- regarding:
>
> The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without
> imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not
> mentioned in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the
> bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down
> (from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain
> seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms
> simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact that we
> have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the
> Dao).
>
> It is interesting that I early realized the difficulty many folks have
> with visualizing at one time both the top-down AND bottom-up aspects of the
> compositional hierarchy:
> [large scale constraints -> [activity in focus <- [small
> scale affordances]]]
>
> Perhaps your suggestion is involved here as well!
>
> STAN
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Sungchul Ji 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Arthur and  FISers,
>
> Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics
> (defined here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any
> changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my
> previous post is because I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from
> micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down (from macro to
> micro) mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain seems unable to
> handle both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it
> may have something to do with the fact that we have two brain hemispheres
> (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the Dao).
>
> One way to integrate the bottom-up and top-down mechanisms underlying
> genetic phenomenon may be to invoke the principle of vibrational resonance
> -- to view both the micro-scale DNA and  the macro-scale environment of
> organisms as vibrational systems or systems of oscillators that can
> exchange information and energy through the well-known mechanisms of
> resonance (e.g., the resonance between the oscillatory motions of the swing
> and the arms of the mother; both motions must have same
> frequencies. otherwise the child will not swing).  According to the
> Fourier theorem, any oscillatory motions of DNA including very low
> frequencies can be generated by linear combinations of  very fast
> covalent bond vibrations in  DNA and  hence can be coupled to slow
> oscillatory motions of the environment, e.g., musical sounds. If this view
> is correct, music can affect, DIRECTLY (i.e., unmediated by the auditory
> system of the brain), the molecular motions of DNA in every cell in our
> body.  In other words, we can hear music not only through our ears but also
> through our whole body including blood.  Because of the patent  issue, I
> cannot reveal the experimental evidence supporting this claim, but, indue
> course, I hope to share with you the scientific evidence we obtained
> recently.
>
> In conclusion, it may be that  the yin-yang doctrine of the Daoist
> philosophy (or any other equivalent principles) 

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Sungchul Ji]

Hi Karl,


Thanks for your comment.


According to N. Bohr, there are two kinds of opposites, A and B -- (i) 
supplementarity wherein A and B adds up to make the whole (e.g., the 
forest-tree pair), and  (ii) complementarity wherein A or B is the whole, 
depending on how the whole is observed (e.g., light as either wave or particle 
depending on how it is measured).  I can send you the reference if needed.


Sung


From: karl javorszky 
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 2:50:50 PM
To: Sungchul Ji
Cc: Stanley N. Salthe; fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

Dear Sung,

Very encouraging the discussion of the difficulties human perception poses 
while trying to consolidate opposites.

The existence of the mental image is built on contrasts, so no wonder we find 
it hard to get a good grip on the mechanisms at work consolidating 
contradictions.

To the opposites we work on :

tree vs. forest,
top vs. bottom,
little vs. big,

could we also add:

background vs. foreground,
across the flow vs. along the flow of time,
commutative vs. sequenced?

If so, there appear some encouraging hints, that a rational methodology has 
been found to consolidate opposites.

Karl

Sungchul Ji mailto:s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>> 
schrieb am Do., 3. Mai 2018 18:01:

Hi Stan,


True.  Our brain seems to have many limitations, one of which is our inability 
to see the forest and the trees simultaneously.


It is interesting to note that we cannot measure (or at least not easy to 
measure) particles and waves of quons  (or quantum objects) simultaneously 
either,  although there are occasional claims asserting otherwise. Here we have 
two entities, A and B, that are not compositionally related (i.e., A is not a 
part of B) as are trees and the forest, but "complementarily" related (i.e., 
A^B, read A or B, depending on measurement) and hence does not involve any 
hierarchy.


All the best.


Sung


From: Fis mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es>> 
on behalf of Stanley N Salthe 
mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:49 AM
To: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

Sung -- regarding:

The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without 
imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned 
in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from 
micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down (from macro to micro) 
mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain seems unable to handle 
both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it may have 
something to do with the fact that we have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) 
but only one vocal cord (the Dao).

It is interesting that I early realized the difficulty many folks have with 
visualizing at one time both the top-down AND bottom-up aspects of the 
compositional hierarchy:
[large scale constraints -> [activity in focus <- [small scale 
affordances]]]

Perhaps your suggestion is involved here as well!

STAN

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Sungchul Ji 
mailto:s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>> wrote:

Hi Arthur and  FISers,

Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics (defined 
here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any changes in the 
nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my previous post is because 
I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of 
genetics, not the top-down (from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting 
to note that our brain seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down 
mechanisms simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact 
that we have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the 
Dao).

One way to integrate the bottom-up and top-down mechanisms underlying genetic 
phenomenon may be to invoke the principle of vibrational resonance -- to view 
both the micro-scale DNA and  the macro-scale environment of organisms as 
vibrational systems or systems of oscillators that can exchange information and 
energy through the well-known mechanisms of resonance (e.g., the resonance 
between the oscillatory motions of the swing and the arms of the mother; both 
motions must have same frequencies. otherwise the child will not swing).  
According to the Fourier theorem, any oscillatory motions of DNA including very 
low frequencies can be generated by linear combinations of  very fast covalent 
bond vibrations in  DNA and  hence can be coupled to slow oscillatory motions 
of the environment, e.g., musical sounds. If this view is correct, music can 
affect, DIRECTLY (i.e., unmediated by the auditory system of the brain), the 
molecular motions of DNA in every cell in our body.  In other wor

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

[Karl Javorszky]

We can integrate the foreground and the background into one common concept
of "universe",e.g. - like forest and trees, like Bohr's sets A B of the
first kind.

The background is different to the foreground by the difference in truth
values. Some sentences are true before a specific background, like light is
a particle under some measurement setups, and a wave under some different
ones. Like one says a displacement is a topographic distance, to be
measured in cm from a given position, while others say a displacement is a
deviation in the extent of substance of matter present in a given
environment, to be measured in kg. Of course the two definitions are
mutually exclusive, like Bohr's sets A B in the 2nd sense.

The good news is that some strikingly simple arithmetic tools have been
developed to be able to sort out the underlying exact meanings of the terms.

Karl
PS : Does Sunday belong to the week ending with it?


Sungchul Ji  schrieb am So., 6. Mai 2018 12:12:

> Hi Karl,
>
>
> Thanks for your comment.
>
>
> According to N. Bohr, there are two kinds of opposites, A and B -- (i)
> supplementarity wherein A and B adds up to make the whole (e.g.,
> the forest-tree pair), and  (ii) complementarity wherein A or B is the
> whole, depending on how the whole is observed (e.g., light as either wave
> or particle depending on how it is measured).  I can send you the reference
> if needed.
>
>
> Sung
> --
> *From:* karl javorszky 
> *Sent:* Friday, May 4, 2018 2:50:50 PM
> *To:* Sungchul Ji
> *Cc:* Stanley N. Salthe; fis
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa
> effect"
>
> Dear Sung,
>
> Very encouraging the discussion of the difficulties human perception poses
> while trying to consolidate opposites.
>
> The existence of the mental image is built on contrasts, so no wonder we
> find it hard to get a good grip on the mechanisms at work consolidating
> contradictions.
>
> To the opposites we work on :
>
> tree vs. forest,
> top vs. bottom,
> little vs. big,
>
> could we also add:
>
> background vs. foreground,
> across the flow vs. along the flow of time,
> commutative vs. sequenced?
>
> If so, there appear some encouraging hints, that a rational methodology
> has been found to consolidate opposites.
>
> Karl
>
> Sungchul Ji  schrieb am Do., 3. Mai 2018 18:01:
>
> Hi Stan,
>
>
> True.  Our brain seems to have many limitations, one of which is our
> inability to see the forest and the trees simultaneously.
>
>
> It is interesting to note that we cannot measure (or at least not easy to
> measure) particles and waves of quons  (or quantum objects) simultaneously
> either,  although there are occasional claims asserting otherwise. Here we
> have two entities, A and B, that are not compositionally related (i.e., A
> is not a part of B) as are trees and the forest, but "complementarily"
> related (i.e., A^B, read A or B, depending on measurement) and hence does
> not involve any hierarchy.
>
>
> All the best.
>
>
> Sung
>
> --
> *From:* Fis  on behalf of Stanley N Salthe <
> ssal...@binghamton.edu>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:49 AM
> *To:* fis
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa
> effect"
>
> Sung -- regarding:
>
> The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without
> imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not
> mentioned in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the
> bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not the top-down
> (from macro to micro) mechanism.  It is interesting to note that our brain
> seems unable to handle both bottom-up and top-down mechanisms
> simultaneously, perhaps it may have something to do with the fact that we
> have two brain hemispheres (Yin and Yang) but only one vocal cord (the
> Dao).
>
> It is interesting that I early realized the difficulty many folks have
> with visualizing at one time both the top-down AND bottom-up aspects of the
> compositional hierarchy:
> [large scale constraints -> [activity in focus <- [small
> scale affordances]]]
>
> Perhaps your suggestion is involved here as well!
>
> STAN
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Sungchul Ji 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Arthur and  FISers,
>
> Thank you for asking an important question. The reason epigenetics
> (defined here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any
> changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA)  was not mentioned in my
> previous post is because I was mainly interested in the b